What is a fair tax rate?

[Londoner]

10% --- no more


The fed gov't should be able to take care of ALL their business on 10%

Ronald Reagan, who doubled Carter's spending and increased the federal workforce far more than Obama during his recession, would not have been able to fund lunacy projects like Star Wars on 10%.

 

[bripat9643]

10% --- no more


The fed gov't should be able to take care of ALL their business on 10%

Ronald Reagan, who doubled Carter's spending and increased the federal workforce far more than Obama during his recession, would not have been able to fund lunacy projects like Star Wars on 10%.

Defense spending is half what it was under Reagan, so that whine is a non sequitur.

 

[hipeter924]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20% - Too high, 10% sounds better; the goal should be to give them some disposable income rather than keep the poor in poverty.
Middle income 27.5% - 17% sounds nice, the Middle Class needs to recover rather than implode.
High income % - 20% to keep the money in the US.

Corporate tax 30% - High corporate tax encourages corporations to store money in offshore accounts, or just not hire new workers; around 15-20% is tolerable.

VAT 15% - Stuff this shit, do we need to kill consumer spending/confidence, how about 0%?

Tax on dividends & shares 25% - Should be 0%, why discourage foreign investment in the US and encourage banks and such to raise fees.

Made some suggestions.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Saigon is simply admitting that leftists are all callous self-centered skin flints who wouldn't lift a finger to help their own grannies.

No, again, slashing welfare is YOUR idea - not mine.

My god, BriPat - you're not a very sharp poster, are you?

You're really quite stupid, ya know it, Saigon?

If slashing welfare would cause your grannie to starve, it's only because you refused to lift a finger to prevent her from starving. You see, welfare isn't the only means we have to prevent our family members from starving. Before welfare, when a family member could no longer take care of themselves, people took those family members into their own homes and fed them.

I know that's difficult for a creature of the welfare state like you to fathom. nevertheless, it's an historical fact.

You're blowing huge plumes of smoke out of your ass!!!

In the mid and late 1930's there was no such thing as benefits, no unions, no sick leave, no unemployment insurance, no health care, etc...no time off for any reason. Folks worked 12 hours a day for $0.75 and their lunch. If one was lucky enough to have a regular job and they missed more than two days and weren't related to the management they were fired. There were ten people standing in line waiting for a job.

Ever hear of county poor farms? When I was a child in the mid and late 1930's hard working folks used to joke about ending up in the poor house. A poor farm was a couple of acres owned by counties where the poor and invalid ended up and the ones who were still able raised and canned enough vegetables during the growing season to keep them alive till the next harvest began. This country is still peppered with unmarked graves located at or near those old houses. They continued until Roosevelt's first social security payments began in the mid and late 40's. That's where the right wing assholes want to take as many of those who didn't inheirit something or manage to get an education back to right now and you know what.....this last fiasco by the George W. Bush years damn sure started the nation back in that direction. The Republican mantra has turned into "I've Got Mine...Now By God You Get Yours"

Every right, every freedom, every financial system, etc. in America was bought and paid for by the shedding of young blood and now the elitist bastards who take everything for granted don't have the balls or courage to even serve. They've slowly changed the system so that those with little education and little to look forward to go and fight the battles which are usually started by choice by politicians with little reason or justification.

 

[Care4all]

15% for everyone on all sources of income. One federal tax. Period. Get rid of SS, Medicare, Excise Taxes and all other taxes and fees. No deductions, no loopholes, no tax shelters - with one exception. Up to 20% of income can be put into individual retirement accounts on a tax deferred basis.

No corporate taxes as that is double taxation and a deterrent to investment and job creation.

I keep hearing that corporate taxes are truly paid for the most part, by the consumer who buys the corporation's product....

Do you think this is true or close to being true boe?

According to Economics 101 it is true.
A business always passes the cost of doing business onto the consumer, including taxes.

Let us suppose for a moment that you, Care4all, own a business. After expenses and taxes you make $70,000 a year. Now, suppose that the government raised your business taxes by $35,000 a year. Would you just suck that up and allow your income to be reduced by $35,000 a year, or would you raise prices to offset the increased taxation?

if taxes went down that $35000, do you think corporations would lower their prices by the $35000 and pass the savings along to the consumer, or do you think they would pocket it as profit?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I keep hearing that corporate taxes are truly paid for the most part, by the consumer who buys the corporation's product....

Do you think this is true or close to being true boe?

According to Economics 101 it is true.
A business always passes the cost of doing business onto the consumer, including taxes.

Let us suppose for a moment that you, Care4all, own a business. After expenses and taxes you make $70,000 a year. Now, suppose that the government raised your business taxes by $35,000 a year. Would you just suck that up and allow your income to be reduced by $35,000 a year, or would you raise prices to offset the increased taxation?

if taxes went down that $35000, do you think corporations would lower their prices by the $35000 and pass the savings along to the consumer, or do you think they would pocket it as profit?

The market would decide that.

And last time I checked none of you were forced to buy anything from a corp.

And just where do you think profit ends up? Locked away under the floor of a boardroom?

Profits end up in the hands of people, always has always will and those people do one of three things with it; they either save it, invest it or spend it and all three of those actions put that profit back to work in the economy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Becaue I think most people want the US to survive.

At a flat tax rate of 10%, the US will cease to exist in its current form.

Yes it would. Praise the Lord!

How does welfare help this country survive?

It wouldn't.

If the income tax was changed to a flat 10% from dollar one of all income regardless of the source and all other taxes remained unchanged we would see a significant increase in net tax revenue.

 

[KGB]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

how about 0% income tax & 15% national sales tax on all consumables instead? No one should be punished for what they make (likewise, no one should be rewarded for being chronically jobless either) & how successful they are (which is exactly what the income tax does). Switching to a national sales tax automatically eliminates all deductions & loopholes, but more importantly, streamlines the tax code.

 

[KGB]

10% --- no more


The fed gov't should be able to take care of ALL their business on 10%

Ronald Reagan, who doubled Carter's spending and increased the federal workforce far more than Obama during his recession, would not have been able to fund lunacy projects like Star Wars on 10%.

Star Wars wasn't designed to actually work from a technical point. It was designed to bankrupt the Soviet Union & end the Cold War.

 

[DiamondDave]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

There is no "fair" tax rate, because fair is a subjective term...

An EQUAL tax rate on every citizen and every dollar would be preferable, as supposedly we are a country that strives for blind justice and equal treatment by government under law

 

[Shelzin]

I keep hearing that corporate taxes are truly paid for the most part, by the consumer who buys the corporation's product....

Do you think this is true or close to being true boe?

According to Economics 101 it is true.
A business always passes the cost of doing business onto the consumer, including taxes.

Let us suppose for a moment that you, Care4all, own a business. After expenses and taxes you make $70,000 a year. Now, suppose that the government raised your business taxes by $35,000 a year. Would you just suck that up and allow your income to be reduced by $35,000 a year, or would you raise prices to offset the increased taxation?

if taxes went down that $35000, do you think corporations would lower their prices by the $35000 and pass the savings along to the consumer, or do you think they would pocket it as profit?

Depends...

If I can sell the product cheaper, but sell more of them because I can sell it cheaper... Then my profit goes up, even though the price of the product has gone down.

Of course there are a great many factors here such as building capability, storage, and god knows what else... But the premise is the same in the end. What's going to create the most profit? Well... Not taxing it, because it is an expenditure, will certainly remove that factor from it.

And as far as a global scale... the US has the highest corporate tax in the world last I checked. Removing it would certainly make us more competitive.

 

[Againsheila]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

Up to $20,000 no tax meaning for EVERYBODY. Nobody pays any taxes on their first $20,000. On their next $20,000 to $50,000 everybody pays 20% taxes, no exceptions no deductions. Everybody pays 30% on their next $50,000 to $100,000, no exceptions, no deductions. Everybody pays 40% on their next $100,000 to $250,000. Everyone pays 50% on their next $250,000 to $500,000. Everyone pays 60% on their next $500,000 to $1,000,000 and above $1,000,000 70% tax.

Now, if you want to give to a charity, 10% of your income you can deduct off the top of your income. IE, if you make $1,000,000 and you give $100,000 to charity, you now make $900,000. Anything less than 10%, no deductions and no deductions for the boxes of crap you gave to the goodwill. If you give one item worth 10% of you income it must be appraised and an appraisal slip included with your taxes.

No corporate welfare. IE for any money or taxbreaks given to a corporation it must provide and equal or better benefit to society. If it fails to do so, it must pay back the money or taxbreaks. Or the state takes over the corporation.


Oh, and corporate tax is on profits after labor and then 30%. If labor is more than 30% of it's cost, then the taxes on the corporation is nil, provided of course that 30% is distributed so that no one makes more than 50 times what anyone else makes. Any stocks given or paid to anyone is INCOME.

All income including capital gains will be taxed as INCOME. Any any income made in the stock market will not be taxed until the stocks are sold (except of course if the stocks are given or paid to you, then they are taxed as income when given and not taxed again until sold). Any income from your home will not be taxed until that home is sold. If you inherit, that's INCOME.

No VAT tax.

No excise tax.

Income tax only! No sales tax. No duty, no nothing, only income.

We will allow a one time only $1,000,000 free inheritance. If your parents die and leave you a $1,000,000 farm, the farm is not taxed UNTIL YOU SELL IT, Then it is income on any value between the $1,000,000 when you inherited and what it is sold for. If the farm is worth $1,000,050, that last $50 is added to you income immediately, etc. Everyone is allowed to inherit up to $1,000,000 without paying taxes on it.

The $1,000,000 will be attached to the cost of living, as will everything else. IE, $20,000 today may be $25,000 next year, etc.

 

[Skull Pilot]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

Up to $20,000 no tax meaning for EVERYBODY. Nobody pays any taxes on their first $20,000. On their next $20,000 to $50,000 everybody pays 20% taxes, no exceptions no deductions. Everybody pays 30% on their next $50,000 to $100,000, no exceptions, no deductions. Everybody pays 40% on their next $100,000 to $250,000. Everyone pays 50% on their next $250,000 to $500,000. Everyone pays 60% on their next $500,000 to $1,000,000 and above $1,000,000 70% tax.

Now, if you want to give to a charity, 10% of your income you can deduct off the top of your income. IE, if you make $1,000,000 and you give $100,000 to charity, you now make $900,000. Anything less than 10%, no deductions and no deductions for the boxes of crap you gave to the goodwill. If you give one item worth 10% of you income it must be appraised and an appraisal slip included with your taxes.

No corporate welfare. IE for any money or taxbreaks given to a corporation it must provide and equal or better benefit to society. If it fails to do so, it must pay back the money or taxbreaks. Or the state takes over the corporation.


Oh, and corporate tax is on profits after labor and then 30%. If labor is more than 30% of it's cost, then the taxes on the corporation is nil, provided of course that 30% is distributed so that no one makes more than 50 times what anyone else makes. Any stocks given or paid to anyone is INCOME.

All income including capital gains will be taxed as INCOME. Any any income made in the stock market will not be taxed until the stocks are sold (except of course if the stocks are given or paid to you, then they are taxed as income when given and not taxed again until sold). Any income from your home will not be taxed until that home is sold. If you inherit, that's INCOME.

No VAT tax.

No excise tax.

Income tax only! No sales tax. No duty, no nothing, only income.

We will allow a one time only $1,000,000 free inheritance. If your parents die and leave you a $1,000,000 farm, the farm is not taxed UNTIL YOU SELL IT, Then it is income on any value between the $1,000,000 when you inherited and what it is sold for. If the farm is worth $1,000,050, that last $50 is added to you income immediately, etc. Everyone is allowed to inherit up to $1,000,000 without paying taxes on it.

The $1,000,000 will be attached to the cost of living, as will everything else. IE, $20,000 today may be $25,000 next year, etc.

So you're saying that the ******* government is entitled to everyone's net worth over a million dollars?

Shit why wait until people die to steal their money? Every time your net worth goes over 1 million the ******* government should confiscate the "excess".

 

[DiamondDave]

Again.. easy for someone to want to punish those they vilify by treating them unequally... and Sheila is showing the perfect example of that... they act as if everything is the government's, and they decide how much is too much for persons.... that plan is just as bad as the reverse, where lower incomes would be taxed at a higher rate and higher incomes would be taxed nothing or close to nothing... it is ALL pandering, it is all unequal treatment, and it is all bullshit

 

[Skull Pilot]

Again.. easy for someone to want to punish those they vilify by treating them unequally... and Sheila is showing the perfect example of that... they act as if everything is the government's, and they decide how much is too much for persons.... that plan is just as bad as the reverse, where lower incomes would be taxed at a higher rate and higher incomes would be taxed nothing or close to nothing... it is ALL pandering, it is all unequal treatment, and it is all bullshit

Actually the bottom tax bracket is 10% so the tax would be the same it's all the bullshit deductions and giveaways that would be done away with.

10 cents on the dollar is not too much to ask anyone to pay in taxes.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Again.. easy for someone to want to punish those they vilify by treating them unequally... and Sheila is showing the perfect example of that... they act as if everything is the government's, and they decide how much is too much for persons.... that plan is just as bad as the reverse, where lower incomes would be taxed at a higher rate and higher incomes would be taxed nothing or close to nothing... it is ALL pandering, it is all unequal treatment, and it is all bullshit

While we were paying off the 2nd WW debt anyone who earned more than $300,000 per year paid 91% of the excess in federal income tax. Who the **** is going to pay for the absolute mess left by Reagan and the Bushes?


In the mid and late 1930's there was no such thing as benefits, no unions, no sick leave, no unemployment insurance, no health care, etc...no time off for any reason. Folks worked 12 hours a day for $0.75 and their lunch. If one was lucky enough to have a regular job and they missed more than two days and weren't related to the management they were fired. There were ten people standing in line waiting for a job.

Ever hear of county poor farms? When I was a child in the mid and late 1930's hard working folks used to joke about ending up in the poor house. A poor farm was a couple of acres owned by counties where the poor and invalid ended up and the ones who were still able raised and canned enough vegetables during the growing season to keep them alive till the next harvest began. This country is still peppered with unmarked graves located at or near those old houses. They continued until Roosevelt's first social security payments began in the mid and late 40's. That's where the right wing assholes want to take as many of those who didn't inheirit something or manage to get an education back to right now and you know what.....this last fiasco by the George W. Bush years damn sure started the nation back in that direction. The Republican mantra has turned into "I've Got Mine...Now By God You Get Yours"

Every right, every freedom, every financial system, etc. in America was bought and paid for by the shedding of young blood and now the elitist bastards who take everything for granted don't have the balls or courage to even serve. They've slowly changed the system so that those with little education and little to look forward to go and fight the battles which are usually started by choice by politicians with little reason or justification.

Wealthy people make my arse crave buttermilk.They believe that because they have more than others that they are entitled. They don't even want to pay taxes.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Again.. easy for someone to want to punish those they vilify by treating them unequally... and Sheila is showing the perfect example of that... they act as if everything is the government's, and they decide how much is too much for persons.... that plan is just as bad as the reverse, where lower incomes would be taxed at a higher rate and higher incomes would be taxed nothing or close to nothing... it is ALL pandering, it is all unequal treatment, and it is all bullshit

While we were paying off the 2nd WW debt anyone who earned more than $300,000 per year paid 91% of the excess in federal income tax. Who the **** is going to pay for the absolute mess left by Reagan and the Bushes?


In the mid and late 1930's there was no such thing as benefits, no unions, no sick leave, no unemployment insurance, no health care, etc...no time off for any reason. Folks worked 12 hours a day for $0.75 and their lunch. If one was lucky enough to have a regular job and they missed more than two days and weren't related to the management they were fired. There were ten people standing in line waiting for a job.

Ever hear of county poor farms? When I was a child in the mid and late 1930's hard working folks used to joke about ending up in the poor house. A poor farm was a couple of acres owned by counties where the poor and invalid ended up and the ones who were still able raised and canned enough vegetables during the growing season to keep them alive till the next harvest began. This country is still peppered with unmarked graves located at or near those old houses. They continued until Roosevelt's first social security payments began in the mid and late 40's. That's where the right wing assholes want to take as many of those who didn't inheirit something or manage to get an education back to right now and you know what.....this last fiasco by the George W. Bush years damn sure started the nation back in that direction. The Republican mantra has turned into "I've Got Mine...Now By God You Get Yours"

Every right, every freedom, every financial system, etc. in America was bought and paid for by the shedding of young blood and now the elitist bastards who take everything for granted don't have the balls or courage to even serve. They've slowly changed the system so that those with little education and little to look forward to go and fight the battles which are usually started by choice by politicians with little reason or justification.

Wealthy people make my arse crave buttermilk.They believe that because they have more than others that they are entitled. They don't even want to pay taxes.

In 1946-48 anyone making 20K was in the 53% Bracket

So be careful what yo wish for when you pine for the so called good ole days

 

[DiamondDave]

Again.. easy for someone to want to punish those they vilify by treating them unequally... and Sheila is showing the perfect example of that... they act as if everything is the government's, and they decide how much is too much for persons.... that plan is just as bad as the reverse, where lower incomes would be taxed at a higher rate and higher incomes would be taxed nothing or close to nothing... it is ALL pandering, it is all unequal treatment, and it is all bullshit

While we were paying off the 2nd WW debt anyone who earned more than $300,000 per year paid 91% of the excess in federal income tax. Who the **** is going to pay for the absolute mess left by Reagan and the Bushes?


In the mid and late 1930's there was no such thing as benefits, no unions, no sick leave, no unemployment insurance, no health care, etc...no time off for any reason. Folks worked 12 hours a day for $0.75 and their lunch. If one was lucky enough to have a regular job and they missed more than two days and weren't related to the management they were fired. There were ten people standing in line waiting for a job.

Ever hear of county poor farms? When I was a child in the mid and late 1930's hard working folks used to joke about ending up in the poor house. A poor farm was a couple of acres owned by counties where the poor and invalid ended up and the ones who were still able raised and canned enough vegetables during the growing season to keep them alive till the next harvest began. This country is still peppered with unmarked graves located at or near those old houses. They continued until Roosevelt's first social security payments began in the mid and late 40's. That's where the right wing assholes want to take as many of those who didn't inheirit something or manage to get an education back to right now and you know what.....this last fiasco by the George W. Bush years damn sure started the nation back in that direction. The Republican mantra has turned into "I've Got Mine...Now By God You Get Yours"

Every right, every freedom, every financial system, etc. in America was bought and paid for by the shedding of young blood and now the elitist bastards who take everything for granted don't have the balls or courage to even serve. They've slowly changed the system so that those with little education and little to look forward to go and fight the battles which are usually started by choice by politicians with little reason or justification.

Wealthy people make my arse crave buttermilk.They believe that because they have more than others that they are entitled. They don't even want to pay taxes.

Again.. a lefty only using part of the information

Care to discuss what was considered income, what was deductible, etc??

Who is going to pay for the debt left by Obamalama??

The answer should be EVERYONE.. not 51%.. and everyone with the same % share of every dollar earned as income

And you claim wealthy don't want to pay taxes?? What about you and your ilk not wanting to pay and having those you vilify pay for you??

 

[Erand7899]

Again.. easy for someone to want to punish those they vilify by treating them unequally... and Sheila is showing the perfect example of that... they act as if everything is the government's, and they decide how much is too much for persons.... that plan is just as bad as the reverse, where lower incomes would be taxed at a higher rate and higher incomes would be taxed nothing or close to nothing... it is ALL pandering, it is all unequal treatment, and it is all bullshit

While we were paying off the 2nd WW debt anyone who earned more than $300,000 per year paid 91% of the excess in federal income tax. Who the **** is going to pay for the absolute mess left by Reagan and the Bushes?


In the mid and late 1930's there was no such thing as benefits, no unions, no sick leave, no unemployment insurance, no health care, etc...no time off for any reason. Folks worked 12 hours a day for $0.75 and their lunch. If one was lucky enough to have a regular job and they missed more than two days and weren't related to the management they were fired. There were ten people standing in line waiting for a job.

Ever hear of county poor farms? When I was a child in the mid and late 1930's hard working folks used to joke about ending up in the poor house. A poor farm was a couple of acres owned by counties where the poor and invalid ended up and the ones who were still able raised and canned enough vegetables during the growing season to keep them alive till the next harvest began. This country is still peppered with unmarked graves located at or near those old houses. They continued until Roosevelt's first social security payments began in the mid and late 40's. That's where the right wing assholes want to take as many of those who didn't inheirit something or manage to get an education back to right now and you know what.....this last fiasco by the George W. Bush years damn sure started the nation back in that direction. The Republican mantra has turned into "I've Got Mine...Now By God You Get Yours"

Every right, every freedom, every financial system, etc. in America was bought and paid for by the shedding of young blood and now the elitist bastards who take everything for granted don't have the balls or courage to even serve. They've slowly changed the system so that those with little education and little to look forward to go and fight the battles which are usually started by choice by politicians with little reason or justification.

Wealthy people make my arse crave buttermilk.They believe that because they have more than others that they are entitled. They don't even want to pay taxes.

Wow! Quite a rant there, and obviously, a lot of hate. I joined the United States Navy in 1959, precisely because I had no marketable skills, and I have never regretted a day of that service. The Navy taught me skills, fed me, housed me, and even paid me a small amount twice a month. I went where they sent me, and used those skills to the best of my ability. Yet, somehow you have reached the conclusion that I was used. What a load of crap.

I have met very few veterans who have regretted their service, or would have traded it for any other experience. You demean every one of them with your bitter hatred.

 

[Erand7899]

I find it interesting that many Libertarians who so value the founding fathers completely ignore that they specifically had the debate about the value of public education and the role of government such as Federal land grant schools.

Our founding fathers were not as convinced as to the role of private markets as today's libertarians

o.0

I'm sorry... Eh... What is your point? What did the founding fathers come up with, and how is that different from a libertarian?

The founding fathers were pro public education. The theory is to provide a platform for all to be successful and they believed government at all levels played a role. Generally today's libertarians reject public education in favor of a market based approach.

Our founding fathers recognized that an educated populace was essential to our form of government. Today, we have ample evidence that they were correct. They just didn't figure on so many people being miseducated.