“What I look for when seeking the Perfect Message Board”

[freeandfun1]

Generally, message boards are meant to be a place where people can come together to discuss ideas, debate issues and learn from others. There are good message boards and there are bad message boards. I seek the perfect message board.

In my experience, a bad message board is one that provides neither guidelines nor requirements for participation and does not expect nor require its members to participate in an intelligent manner. A bad message board offers its member nothing as it is quickly inundated with posts containing nothing but hyperbole, rhetoric and biased opinions based on questionable “facts” that are totally unsupportable. A bad message board will appear silly, immature and anarchistic thereby causing the mind atrophy and its members to leave seeking a new home.

A good message board is one where people can come together to discuss ideas, debate issues and learn from others with limited interruption. It will consist of an acceptable environment that is intelligent and challenging and thereby provide some intellectual growth.

I am searching for the perfect message board.

In the perfect message board the members are contributing to discussions on the topics of the day in a substantive manner based on facts, personal experiences, and intelligently considered and expressed opinions. In the perfect message board the members respect each other even when they do not agree and even if, once in a while, they get little hot under the collar.

Free speech is an essential requirement for my perfect message board as is the requirement that the participants exercise their free speech rights in a coherent, mature and intelligent manner. That does not mean everybody has to agree; that would be pointless. Opposing views are a necessary part of learning as they provide one with perspectives to consider that will either reinforce what they already believe or force them to reconsider their existing points of view. Therefore, the perfect message board is a place where free speech is accepted and encouraged but where the members are required to maintain a higher standard of discourse.

Lastly, the perfect message board will have established reasonable rules that are enforced by moderators that understand what is required to provide an intelligent arena for discussions. It will require its members to participate in an intelligent and thoughtful manner and will not tolerate members that offer nothing but confrontational and mindless garbage. It will recognize and respect the intellectual capabilities of its members thereby fostering and maintaining an intelligent and learned environment for their benefit.

What do you look for when seeking your perfect message board?

 

[Annie]

Free I think this is well said and I agree. I also think there should be 'fun' and an ability to share ideas without feelings getting hurt too much.

Personally, I think some wrong turns were made during the Schaivo threads. I personally was hurt when some came at me for not agreeing 100% with what they were saying. Then it seemed to me, (perceptions ARE in the eye of the beholder), that some were using anti-Catholicism and throwing 'closet lib' around a bit too much.

Did I pm them? No. Did I get angry enough to post on 'far right'? Yes. Was I wrong to do that to posters I had known quite awhile? Yes. I'm sorry. I've said that to some of those that bothered to talk to me afterwards, I've tried to reach out to some I knew I offended. That's all one can do.

 

[GotZoom]

When I moved to Italy, the first friend I made gave me this advice. He said that if I wanted to "survive" living among the locals, do not talk about:

1. Religion

2. Politics

3. Sports

Well, I listened to him for about a month. Then, well...I couldn't resist. Not talking about sports: Impossible!! Especially since I was a Rossonieri and nobody like AC Milan. Then the conversations turned to politics and religion.

But what happened surprised him. There weren't any fights, no chairs thrown into the piazza, no one got slapped. We had spirited conversations, did some yelling and screaming, but at the end, we toasted each other and went on our way.

It is when people take an opposing opinion as something personal. Just because I don't believe your stand about something, that doesn't mean that I hate you. And, if I call someone an idiot (or whatever), I feel you are an idiot for what you posted; not in life in general.

I think there are some people who don't share my same opinion. As a brief example, I was neg-repped by someone simply because I agreed with someone's post in a specific thread. The person who neg-repped me didn't like the person I agreed with; so I was dinged. Guilt by association I guess.

People...this board is for conversation. Sharing of thoughts and opinions.

I don't know about you, but I like hearing and discussing different ideas and opinions. I learn from it. It makes me a better person.

If we turn into DU, we all will be missing out on a great experience.

 

[freeandfun1]

Free I think this is well said and I agree. I also think there should be 'fun' and an ability to share ideas without feelings getting hurt too much.

Personally, I think some wrong turns were made during the Schaivo threads. I personally was hurt when some came at me for not agreeing 100% with what they were saying. Then it seemed to me, (perceptions ARE in the eye of the beholder), that some were using anti-Catholicism and throwing 'closet lib' around a bit too much.

Did I pm them? No. Did I get angry enough to post on 'far right'? Yes. Was I wrong to do that to posters I had known quite awhile? Yes. I'm sorry. I've said that to some of those that bothered to talk to me afterwards, I've tried to reach out to some I knew I offended. That's all one can do.

My entire point with this is that there are many of us here that I consider bright, intelligent and articulate. Then you have those that offer nothing by hyperbole, rhetoric and are, frankly, confrontational just to be confrontational. And that is on both sides.

The first message board I ever belong to was one that Stratfor used to host. There was a very intelligent mix of liberals and conservatives and although things would sometimes get heated during debates, NOBODY accepted people coming in and throwing out crap like gabby and a few other have. Their rule was, "if you can't participate in an intelligent, concerted and informative manner, then we don't want you here". If somebody was to come in and start acting like gabby, they would get booted and have their subscription fee refunded. And at the time, their subsription fee was something like $300 a year (I used it for business intel and that is how I found it).

Members like Deaddude, Isaac Brock, and even spilly and bully to an extent, that could voice their opinions in a clear an concise manner without resorting to abject mannerisms, comments, etc. were welcomed no matter how many of us may or may not agree with them. The site drew all kings of folks and even had some really good Washington insider liberals that were smart and good make you wonder about your idealogy on occassion. It wasn't whether one was conservative or liberal that got you accepted, it was your ability participate in intelligent conversation and debate. Frankly, I miss that.

A person like Gabby would not have been tolerated at Stratfor because they offer nothing to a discussion. Their contribution is retread trash that has been proved over and over again to have no legs and their rhetoric is so inflamatory it takes away from what should be legitimate discussions.

Unfortunately, after 911 they had to shut down the Stratfor board because too many members worked in or for the government in sensitive positions and therefore, it became an opsec issue.

All I would like to see is the moderators here step in from time and time and let folks like Gabby know that if they have nothing to offer conversation wise, then they should look elsewhere. Do we really want this place to become another DU or Yahoo chat room? I don't think so. I have met online here a lot of people I respect - even a few liberals and I hate to see that get lost because of a few idiots that basically take over the board by pissing everybody off with their incoherant and illiterate ramblings.

I think sometimes the members of this board - and yes, that includes some of the mods - don't respect what we have here enough. I think that many see this as a place to come and try to be the big guy or gal and they don't at all attempt to make this the first class discussion (that is the key word, DISCUSSION) board that it could and should be with the quality of many of the members we have here. I admit that even I have fallen into that trap from time to time. However, if the intelligence level of the baord gets watered down any more, in my opinion, this board is going to deteriorate to a level where I will no longer desire to participate.

As you saw in my little essay, I don't want a place where everybody is walking in lockstep with each other. That serves no purpose. But I do expect to be able to engage in debate with members that aren't mental midgets.

Lastly, I know what you are saying about during Shiavo. I too felt that things got a bit out of hand. Hell, even you and I went at it a couple of times but we were both capable, mature enough and willing to get over our differences. I think that is very important.

I would venture to say that there are just as many conservatives on here that act like gabby as there are liberals. They just don't get called out to the mat very often as many of us are guilty of letting them slide just because they are often espousing similar beliefs to ours even if it is done in a rude and cursory manner. That isn't right either.

Let's make this a place where intellectual minds (not elitist - intellectual) can gather to exchange views, opinions and ideas. If we do that, this will be a first class joint!

 

[Annie]

I agree with most of what zoom posted. I don't think the problem here has ever been like DU, where just being a conservative, strike that, not being a full out and out leftist will get you banned.

Still it seems now that the very letter of the rules will be followed, which I don't think anyone has a problem with. The trick is to keep this from turning into Yahoo boards, with swears and dirty pics.

 

[no1tovote4]

I look for free speech and as little Moderation as possible when it comes to what people post. Much like government, board moderation should be based on a victim mindset. If there is not a direct victim, there is no reason to ban.

That's just my opinion.

That being stated, I like this board alot. While it leans heavily conservative there are lefties on the board, mostly those with a good constitution.

I also look for intelligent debate. There are some posters that I miss on this forum like Civil Liberty but you can largely find intelligent people posting their opinions on this board, even if some express themselves more colorfully than others.

I also look for ideas. I like boards that people will post some things I would not normally think about, or haven't for a long time. Ideas are the food of the mind and mine has a large appetite, I look for people that also have that same appetite. You can find boards that have very little moderation where people are morons and contribute little, and boards where that same moderation level is used where the members are awesome it really depends on the community that forms. Jim has done a good job attracting decent members and a good community of regular posters has formed.

 

[dilloduck]

I look for free speech and as little Moderation as possible when it comes to what people post. Much like government, board moderation should be based on a victim mindset. If there is not a direct victim, there is no reason to ban.

That's just my opinion.

That being stated, I like this board alot. While it leans heavily conservative there are lefties on the board, mostly those with a good constitution.

I also look for intelligent debate. There are some posters that I miss on this forum like Civil Liberty but you can largely find intelligent people posting their opinions on this board, even if some express themselves more colorfully than others.

I also look for ideas. I like boards that people will post some things I would not normally think about, or haven't for a long time. Ideas are the food of the mind and mine has a large appetite, I look for people that also have that same appetite. You can find boards that have very little moderation where people are morons and contribute little, and boards where that same moderation level is used where the members are awesome it really depends on the community that forms. Jim has done a good job attracting decent members and a good community of regular posters has formed.

I agree---and I sure would like to know who is trying to corrupt it by colluding with other board members. Behavior like that is intolerable and will create an atmosphere of paranoia.

 

[freeandfun1]

I agree---and I sure would like to know who is trying to corrupt it by colluding with other board members. Behavior like that is intolerable and will create an atmosphere of paranoia.

the $64,000 question.

 

[dilloduck]

the $64,000 question.

and I guess the reality is that this is not a democracy. The board is privately owned and operated. Freedom of speech is made very clear---there are no rules about freedom of association. Ultimately NO one is going to " take control" becuase they simply can't. With the mod system in place we have a system to control the board but at the same time, that creates a group with power and special priviledges that others don't have. This in itself creates two "teams" if you will. I could care less what "team" I am on but will stand my ground for my right to be here unless I break the rules. While rules are necessary to provide guidance, they can get so confusing that they are open to interpretation. Hopefully the warning system will be used to prevent people form misunderstanding or being misunderstood.

 

[freeandfun1]

and I guess the reality is that this is not a democracy. The board is privately owned and operated. Freedom of speech is made very clear---there are no rules about freedom of association. Ultimately NO one is going to " take control" becuase they simply can't. With the mod system in place we have a system to control the board but at the same time, that creates a group with power and special priviledges that others don't have. This in itself creates two "teams" if you will. I could care less what "team" I am on but will stand my ground for my right to be here unless I break the rules. While rules are necessary to provide guidance, they can get so confusing that they are open to interpretation. Hopefully the warning system will be used to prevent people form misunderstanding or being misunderstood.

I guess my points (maybe not, maybe I am the one missing something here) in the initial post has been lost...

Free speech is a must. But then again, if the free speech isn't adding anything substantive - as in intelligent debate, etc. - what is the point? Free speech doesn't have to mean letting any nut in here that wants to make a ponit by throwing out crap and seeing if it sticks. I hope for a forum that encourages and requires from its members intelligent and engaging discussions. Not just one hit wonders, or post and never reply, etc. It makes you wonder if some of the most confrontational posters that really don't engage in debate but throw shit out and run are creations to keep things "exciting". I would rather engage in a cerebral debate that forces me to think instead of just reading the same ole crap over and over again from one hit wonders.

Just my two cents which many probably view as not even being worth that....

 

[dilloduck]

I guess my points (maybe not, maybe I am the one missing something here) in the initial post has been lost...

Free speech is a must. But then again, if the free speech isn't adding anything substantive - as in intelligent debate, etc. - what is the point? Free speech doesn't have to mean letting any nut in here that wants to make a ponit by throwing out crap and seeing if it sticks. I hope for a forum that encourages and requires from its members intelligent and engaging discussions. Not just one hit wonders, or post and never reply, etc. It makes you wonder if some of the most confrontational posters that really don't engage in debate but throw shit out and run are creations to keep things "exciting". I would rather engage in a cerebral debate that forces me to think instead of just reading the same ole crap over and over again from one hit wonders.

Just my two cents which many probably view as not even being worth that....

It's a tough call cause I think Jim wants to include rather than to exclude and it's impossible to keep emotion out of it because people are very passionate about what they think. I think some warnings or short bannings outta give someone the idea of what kind of behavior is expected here. Dealing with people DIRECTLY AND PRIVATELY does wonders instead of duking everything out in the open--then you're bringing peoples pride into it and you know how THAT can get.

 

[Bonnie]

and I guess the reality is that this is not a democracy. The board is privately owned and operated. Freedom of speech is made very clear---there are no rules about freedom of association. Ultimately NO one is going to " take control" becuase they simply can't. With the mod system in place we have a system to control the board but at the same time, that creates a group with power and special priviledges that others don't have. This in itself creates two "teams" if you will. I could care less what "team" I am on but will stand my ground for my right to be here unless I break the rules. While rules are necessary to provide guidance, they can get so confusing that they are open to interpretation. Hopefully the warning system will be used to prevent people form misunderstanding or being misunderstood.

I'd like to understand what you are saying better, are you saying you would like more rule enforcement or less? And do you feel cut off from certain people becasue of the Mod system in place? Im just not following this completely, and I can't get a lid on what the common problems are that everyone is feeling these days, I have an idea but nothing solid. Humor me please maybe two sentences or so?

 

[no1tovote4]

I'd help if I could, Bon. I actually have no problem and enjoy the board and think that the Moderation is about at the right level. The other boards I have been on have times like this one as well. It will get hashed out with little change and the discussion will go on. This too shall pass...

 

[dilloduck]

I'd like to understand what you are saying better, are you saying you would like more rule enforcement or less? And do you feel cut off from certain people becasue of the Mod system in place? Im just not following this completely, and I can't get a lid on what the common problems are that everyone is feeling these days, I have an idea but nothing solid. Humor me please maybe two sentences or so?

no--I think the mod system is an ok way of keeping wackos from ruining Jims joint but I do feel that some rules that protect mods create a class system. In's and Out's if you will. If a mod has a personal issue that extends into the disciplinary category it's also unfortunate.

I only feel cut off if people choose to ignore me but that's thier right and is reasonable to expect. Since I have NO idea how anything runs above just being a "normal" member I don't know how things are resolved at the mod level but it does seem that having so many might cause a problem with decision making.
ba glad to answer further if it will help

 

[Bonnie]

no--I think the mod system is an ok way of keeping wackos from ruining Jims joint but I do feel that some rules that protect mods create a class system. In's and Out's if you will. If a mod has a personal issue that extends into the disciplinary category it's also unfortunate.

I only feel cut off if people choose to ignore me but that's thier right and is reasonable to expect. Since I have NO idea how anything runs above just being a "normal" member I don't know how things are resolved at the mod level but it does seem that having so many might cause a problem with decision making.
ba glad to answer further if it will help

I get the gist of what you are saying and your right this is something that should be hashed out with the administraton, however I would sure welcome feedback from anyone here privately if they are upset about something. I come from the point of view that everyone has the right to speak freely about their ideas as long as they do it respectfully which is very subjective to each person, therin lies part of the problem. In order to have good discussions you need two things mostly, differing ideas, and respect in how you present those ideas. Too may rules means confusion, while too little means chaos. Im sure that there are many occasions in which liberties have been taken by everyone here which will happen from time to time but should not be a regular occurance. I think the rules Jim has in place spells everything out well as to how he want things to go and since this is his board I will abide by them as best I can.

As far as the number of moderators I think that has to do with always having someone covering the board since everyone works as well. This way there are no big gaps of time that the board isn't being watched. But yes all the moderators need to agree and work together which really goes without saying. I would add that anything we do as members always comes with falibility as humans and we all need to remember there is no such thing as perfection.

 

[Zhukov]

I agree---and I sure would like to know who is trying to corrupt it by colluding with other board members. Behavior like that is intolerable and will create an atmosphere of paranoia.

This grabbed my attention. Care to elaborate upon it?

 

[freeandfun1]

Free, I hear what you're saying about posters who don't contribute to the general welfare of the board. As long as those posters aren't breaking rules, then there's not a lot that we can really do about it. There are plenty of posters who annoy me, David2004 being the first one that comes to mind. He is a classic hit-and-run poster. But yet, since he hasn't broken any rules, he's still here. My own advice is to continue the board "conversation" with the intelligent ones, and ignore the ones who won't submit to a good discussion.

Simple question...

If they are not contributing the the general welfare of the boad, then why CAN'T you do anything? Please don't throw out the free speech defense, this is a privately owned board... and as I mentioned before, I have belonged to other boards (one was a liberal board out of Canada) that would ban liberal, conservatives, whoever that were not contributing in a thoughtful manner. That is all I am wondering about.... if somebody is wasting bandwith, screw em and throw the bums out...

 

[Zhukov]

As long as those posters aren't breaking rules, then there's not a lot that we can really do about it.

Except of course change the rules.

Not suggesting a course of action. Merely pointing one out.

 

[Said1]

To be honest, some of the new posters good and bad, have a familiar ring to them. But then again, maybe it's just moi?

 

[freeandfun1]

To be honest, some of the new posters good and bad, have a familiar ring to them. But then again, maybe it's just moi?

Frankly, I find it quite interesting that Gabby came in here trying to insult anything and anybody she could and now is starting to sound like a mild middle of the roader.... very strange. Most rabid liberals like her won't change no matter what somebody says to her... why the sudden change in attitude?

I understand what you are saying Jeff but maybe the first way to start is to get some mods that are more liberal than most of us. Isaac Brock, Civil Liberties, etc. There are some very intelligent and coherent liberals that could also contribute to monitoring the board and assisting in keeping it an intelligent place. It sounds to me as if there are not going to be any rules... Unfettered free speech means anybody can say anything... why not have a team of moderators with various opinions (you have to admit the majority if not all of the mods are pretty much of the same mindset) and then set specific rules for what makes civil and intelligent debate?