What Happens When You Tax Billionaires At 90%

[leftwinger]

Bottom line: FEDS insist to spend ~25%*GDP. They only take in ~20%*GDP. How do you make them spend less? If they won't? lol! How do you change tax code w/o killing the economy?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Paris Hilton can pump more money into the economy in a single weekend shopping spree than I can in a year. Papa Hilton DID create thousands of jobs. Change my mind.

Of course the Hiltons created thousands of jobs. The people that work at the hotels owe their jobs to Hilton. Paris Hilton's dad still works.

The one divisive identifier between the very rich and the poor is that the rich never stop working. They take few days off. The poor look forward to off time and retirement. The wealthy never retire.

 

[hadit]

History (over 100 years) has shown the top they can confiscate without killing the economy is roughly 20%*GDP. When they try to take more the GDP drops right away. I would call that a large sample. Jobs dry up? Money moves? Businesses don't find it worth it to open up? I am no expert. But, Obiden has not raised taxes significantly? Maybe they have an army of experts telling them it won't work or it will cause a huge recession? I don't know? They had 2 yrs full control under this current chowderhead but did nothing.

I hate to be a one-trick pony but no one has been able to show me where the above is not true? No one can find ~$2T additional TAX to solve the problem. I am not against any of it? But, caution to be observed. Tax over 20%*GDP has always failed. The answer seems to be GROW THE GDP.....Trump policy was as close to doing that as we have had recently.

There really is an optimal tax percent on income that maximizes revenue to the government while minimizing the damage done to the economy. Washington has no inclination to use that percentage, however, because the tax code isn't about maximizing revenue, it's about social engineering.

 

[TruthNotBS]

You think it's about profits? The only reason they move manufacturing is the consumer wants to pay the lowest price. Force it to stay here and prices go through the roof. The poor, of course, suffer.

Do you realize that you are calling for a theocracy by continually bringing God into the picture of how to run the US government? And, should you get that, you will be overrun by people who read the Bible and call for freedom.

You yearn for the days when America was the only major manufacturer on the planet and we could dictate prices. All we need to return to those days is another world war that decimates the manufacturing bases of all the other countries. Then, of course, we'll have those millions of people dead, but hey, who's counting?

There is one reason why corporations move operations to another country, and that is to offer a lower price. Do you realize that the poor in this country have access to things like TV's, phones, and fresh produce BECAUSE they are cheaper to produce in other countries? Force everything to be made in the US by union labor and the prices would go sky high. The poor would suffer the most, of course.

You think it's about profits?

Yes sir, it's ALL about profits. The bottom line of capitalist production is profits, not meeting human needs or providing cheap products to paying consumers. If you believe capitalism is more than that, I have a bridge to sell you here in Brooklyn.

The only reason they move manufacturing is the consumer wants to pay the lowest price.

​

Sure, it's not because they want to make extreme profits, hiring dirt-cheap labor abroad, protected by "free-trade" agreements. It's because the "compassionate capitalists", "love" American consumers so much, that they close factories here in the United States, laying off millions of American workers (American consumers), in order to lovingly sell them a coffee mug made in China, that is three bucks cheaper than the American made coffee mug. As if the American consumer would rather throw away their good-paying job with benefits, to pay three bucks less for a Chinese coffee mug...

Force it to stay here and prices go through the roof.

Having a robust American manufacturing base for over a century in this country, that employed unionized workers, proves you wrong (study the history of our economy). If American capitalists aren't allowed to close their factories here in America (destroying millions of jobs in the process and our economy), due to high tariffs and a loss of all of their tax breaks, subsidies, no-interest loans, contracts, free government services that assist American manufacturers compete with foreign companies and provide Americans with good paying jobs, these capitalists, won't leave.

It would be stupid for them to turn their factory into an import warehouse and distribution center, for their Mexican and Chinese-made products, if they're going to be paying high tariffs and lose all of the aforementioned benefits. More, if the capitalists are so greedy, that they refuse to conduct their business based here in the United States (at home, where they sell their products and extract their profits), the US government can very easily, start a campaign to restore our manufacturing base and create jobs, by incentivizing American workers, to launch worker-owned and run cooperatives. Capitalists hate having to compete with worker cooperatives because the bottom line of a cooperative isn't profits, it's securing jobs.

What privately owned business enterprises consider an "overhead" i.e. the cost of doing business, worker-cooperatives consider profits. If the light bill and other utilities of the factory are paid, and workers are paid their salaries, that's it. Is it good to have a surplus or "profit" when you're running a cooperative? Yes, it's good to generate a profit, over salaries. But, a cooperative can survive and thrive even without a huge profit, if any. Cooperatives are able to invest more into their companies, and lower prices for the consumer (isn't that the core of your argument for capitalists leaving America?). Cooperatives have more resources to benefit the consumer because they can use the profits to lower prices and provide better service to their customers. How about that?

We really don't need greedy, rich capitalists, in order to create good-paying jobs. We can have a manufacturing base that consists of worker-owned and run cooperatives, like this:

(We don't need capitalists to create jobs. Today if workers go to the SBA - Small Business Administration, or to a private bank, to get a start-up loan, to launch a cooperative, the odds of them getting that money is extremely unlikely. Capitalists have rigged the system, to make it difficult if not impossible for workers to start worker-owned and run cooperatives. But the government could very easily fix that, and end the tyranny of these non-democratic companies, that hold the working-class hostage.)​

Or we can have our government give every American a job guarantee in the public sector (capitalists hate government job guarantees for working-class people because it undercuts their ability to terrorize workers with unemployment. When jobs are scarce the capitalists have more leverage to negotiate for lower wages and benefits).

If Americans can't find a job in the private sector, they'll have one waiting for them in the public sector. There's a lot of work to be done, plenty of jobs, paving our highways and city streets, rebuilding our bridges and maintaining them, among many other jobs. We have a lot to do in this country in order to MAKE IT GREAT AGAIN. The US government could provide America, with millions of good-paying jobs with benefits, as it did in the 1930s, with FDR's New Deal.

So if mammon-worshiping capitalists want to close our factories here and move them abroad, they lose profits and control over their market, losing their customers to worker cooperatives and businesses that remain operating here in the USA.

One more thing. What makes you think that just because a product is cheap, it's worth buying? Do you believe the American worker/American consumer is that stupid? Let me tell you something, there are millions of Americans that would gladly spend those extra three bucks for that MADE IN THE USA coffee mug. I and millions of other Americans would rather spend an extra $30, even $100+, for that good quality, MADE IN THE USA, Carrier AC Unit, made in Indiana. I would gladly support American manufacturers, American patriot capitalists, who love this country and sincerely want to MAKE IT GREAT AGAIN. They have ALL of my support, my hard-earned money will FLOW into their coffers if they keep their businesses here in the USA.

Millions of Americans are itching, even desperate, to BUY AMERICAN. We'll gladly spend more, no problem, especially when we're making a decent wage. The middle class is good for it. The reason over half of America is just scraping by, barely making it at the end of the month, living paycheck to paycheck, without savings, heavily in debt, isn't due to the policies I'm proposing. It's due to right-wing, neo-liberal, Republican policies, that allow the rich to eat the poor and middle-class. Your ideology and policies have gutted the American middle class.

The poor, of course, suffer.

Yes, they sure suffer, from far right-wing, neo-liberal capitalism. The extreme greed of un-patriotic, American multinational corporations and their brainwashed American working-class Republican drones, who ironically even pretend to be disciples of Jesus Christ. Complaining about workers wanting to "EAT THE RICH", when it's their capitalist masters who are eating the poor and working class. You lack discernment, due to your mammon worship. That's idolatry. Worship and serve God, not mammon. Life here is short, then we stand before God either in glory or in shame. We must prepare our souls, lest we fail to overcome.

1Jn_5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jn_5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev_2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Rev_2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Rev_21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

You yearn for the days when America was the only major manufacturer on the planet and we could dictate prices.

Before 1945, we were far from the "only manufacturers on the planet", and yet American industry was more than competitive and robust. It was an INDUSTRIAL JUGGERNAUT.

We had a STRONG manufacturing base, not relying on another nation to provide us with EVERYTHING, as we do now. What has occurred is not due to the compassion of American capitalists, but their greed and hubris, wanting to make 10X more than what they make when they're based here at home. They were still making money here. In the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, the highest-paid CEOs made about 30X the salary of their lowest-paid workers. Today the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies make up to 1000X the salary of their workers. It's nuts and you support that demonic garbage.

Your economic worldview and ideology hurt the gospel. If you claim to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, and you support all of this capitalist hubris and greed, you're serving the devil, not the Son of the Living God. How can you govern as a member of Christ's royal family and body, in the world to come, if you are so indifferent to the needs of the people? Being so enamored by your lust for mammon and the wicked trinkets of this world. If you are born again and filled with the Holy Ghost, you can't continue behaving this way. Judgment will fall upon the church before it falls upon the world.

You're quick to condemn the LGBTQA+ lunacy and those who abort their unborn, then show complete indifference for the poor, pledging your allegiance to the rich, in pursuit of worldly wealth, rather than God's Kingdom. Repent brothers and sisters, that you may be filled with the Holy Spirit and empowered to serve God, in a broken and hurting world.

All we need to return to those days is another world war that decimates the manufacturing bases of all the other countries. Then, of course, we'll have those millions of people dead, but hey, who's counting?

Our success and independence, as a nation, doesn't kill anyone. It's the type of capitalism that you promote (Milton Friedman Neo-Liberalism) that consumes and annihilates the world, keeping us on fossil fuels when we can easily build modern, safe, and clean nuclear plants, providing us with abundant electricity and even carbon-free liquid fuels. It is the extreme greed of our unpatriotic, demonic capitalists, that has us now on the brink of fighting WW3 with Russia and China. NATO, the Cold War dinosaur, didn't have to expand into Eastern Europe and poke the bear for thirty years. The MIC - Military Industrial Complex, LOVES selling weapons to NATO (to the US government and EU), for HUGE PROFITS.

You accuse me of supporting genocide, when the capitalists that you worship and praise are the ones who create the conditions for mass hunger and genocide, in pursuit of their $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ PROFITS.

There is one reason why corporations move operations to another country, and that is to offer a lower price.

Do you realize that the poor in this country have access to things like TV's, phones, and fresh produce BECAUSE they are cheaper to produce in other countries?


WOW, those compassionate capitalists are so concerned about the poor and them having access to cheap Chinese televisions. Amazing. Really? Do you actually believe this nonsense? Capitalists move their factories and businesses abroad for dirt-cheap, heavily exploited labor. In those impoverished countries, government officials are in bed with foreign capitalists, to exploit their people as much as possible. Practically, no regulations, paying a buck an hour, if that. Then as a capitalist, you can import cheaply made products into the American market, paying little tariffs, if any, and MAKE A KILLING.

Why pay an American worker $15.00 hourly, with benefits, if you can go to Mexico, China, or Bangladesh, and pay a worker $1.00 hourly without benefits? Your factory can be constructed for much less, due to the lack of proper, safe building codes and you can practically do whatever you want to your employees. They can't unionize and they can work in the heat of summer with fans blowing rather than adequate air-conditioning, to keep them from dying of heat stroke. Are you that gone?

Why should American capitalists pay American workers $15.00 hourly or more (depending on the job they're doing), with benefits, and union protection? Because, that American unionized worker that is earning $15.00 hourly with benefits, is also YOUR CUSTOMER. That American worker is the American paying consumer. He needs some PURCHASING POWER. In the long-term, you will make more money as an American capitalist if you play by the rules and keep your factory here because you will be contributing positively to the success of the US economy, which your American customers and you rely on.

Your type of capitalism creates poverty that then places Americans in the precarious position of only affording cheap Chinese products. That's not even an issue, if Americans have good-paying jobs, earning a living wage. As I mentioned earlier, we will gladly pay more for good quality MADE IN THE USA. Walmart used to have MADE IN THE USA signs, all over their store. That ended in the late 80s, early 90s. The emphasis was MADE IN THE USA. You're creating poverty, by stripping Americans of their good-paying union jobs.


Force everything to be made in the US by union labor and the prices would go sky high. The poor would suffer the most, of course.

That's a straw man, I never said FORCE EVERYTHING TO BE MADE IN THE USA. That was never the case, even in the heyday of our manufacturing. What I am saying, is that we need to restore our manufacturing base, bringing a lot more manufacturing and good-paying jobs to the US and have an economy that works, just not for the rich and powerful, but for the working class as well. Your claim that if workers are unionized and getting paid a good wage, prices will automatically go up, is not true, due to the fact that companies can receive plenty of incentives from the government, such as tax cuts, contracts, loans, and even protection and subsidies when warranted. If you study our history, you'll discover that the US government had a big hand in America becoming industrialized and later the #1 economy.


Today CEOs make too much money, cutting into worker salaries and benefits. Corporations are strictly profit-oriented, trying to satisfy the demands of their shareholders, rather than seeing their businesses as a service to the country and their communities. The present business "ethos" and priorities of American big business have to change. Either it wakes up and realizes that the economy has to work for everyone, not just the rich or the working class eventually will reach the end of its rope, the breaking point, and the pitchforks will come out. When that occurs, the rich lose everything. They're pushing working-class people, into a position that makes socialism look good. Extreme greedy capitalists are the best propagators of socialism.

 

[gipper]

Excellent idea. We need to get the government out of the economy.

The government and big business are one. How do you propose to stop this?

 

[Nostra]

You think it's about profits?

Yes sir, it's ALL about profits. The bottom line of capitalist production is profits, not meeting human needs or providing cheap products to paying consumers. If you believe capitalism is more than that, I have a bridge to sell you here in Brooklyn.

View attachment 792223​

The only reason they move manufacturing is the consumer wants to pay the lowest price.

View attachment 792224
​

Sure, it's not because they want to make extreme profits, hiring dirt-cheap labor abroad, protected by "free-trade" agreements. It's because the "compassionate capitalists", "love" American consumers so much, that they close factories here in the United States, laying off millions of American workers (American consumers), in order to lovingly sell them a coffee mug made in China, that is three bucks cheaper than the American made coffee mug. As if the American consumer would rather throw away their good-paying job with benefits, to pay three bucks less for a Chinese coffee mug...

View attachment 792226​

Force it to stay here and prices go through the roof.

Having a robust American manufacturing base for over a century in this country proves you're wrong. If American capitalists aren't allowed to close their factories here in America (destroying millions of jobs in the process and our economy), due to high tariffs and a loss of all of their tax breaks, subsidies, no-interest loans, contracts, free government services that assist American manufacturers compete with foreign companies and provide Americans with good paying jobs, these capitalists, won't leave.

It would be stupid for them to turn their factory into an import warehouse and distribution center, for their Mexican and Chinese-made products, if they're going to be paying high tariffs and lose all of the aforementioned benefits. More, if the capitalists are so greedy, that they refuse to conduct their business based here in the United States (at home, where they sell their products and extract their profits), the US government can very easily, start a campaign to restore our manufacturing base and create jobs, by incentivizing American workers, to launch worker-owned and run cooperatives. Capitalists hate having to compete with worker cooperatives because the bottom line of a cooperative isn't profits, it's securing jobs.

What privately owned business enterprises consider an "overhead" i.e. the cost of doing business, worker-cooperatives consider profits. If the light bill and other utilities of the factory are paid, and workers are paid their salaries, that's it. Is it good to have a surplus or "profit" when you're running a cooperative? Yes, it's good to generate a profit, over salaries. But, a cooperative can survive and thrive even without a huge profit, if any. Cooperatives are able to invest more into their companies, and lower prices for the consumer (isn't that the core of your argument for capitalists leaving America?). Cooperatives have more resources to benefit the consumer because they can use the profits to lower prices and provide better service to their customers. How about that?

We really don't even need greedy, rich capitalists, in order to create good-paying jobs. We can have a manufacturing base that consists of worker-owned and run cooperatives, like this:

(We don't need capitalists to create jobs. Today of workers go to the SBA - Small Business Administration, or to a private bank, the odds of getting a business plan for a cooperative or loan proposal accepted, is rare. Capitalists have rigged the system, to make it difficult if not impossible for workers to start worker-owned and run cooperatives. But the government could very easily fix that, and end the tyranny of these non-democratic companies, that hold the working-class hostage.)​

or we can have our government give every American a job guarantee in the public sector (capitalists hate government job guarantees for working-class people because it undercuts their ability to terrorize workers with unemployment. When jobs are scarce the capitalists have more leverage to negotiate for lower wages and benefits).

If Americans can't find a job in the private sector, they'll have one waiting for them in the public sector. There's a lot of work to be done, plenty of jobs, paving our highways and city streets, rebuilding our bridges and maintaining them, among many other jobs. We have a lot to do in this country in order to MAKE IT GREAT AGAIN. The US government could provide America, with millions of good-paying jobs with benefits, as it did in the 1930s, with FDR's New Deal.

So if mammon-worshiping capitalists want to close our factories here and move them abroad, they lose profits and control over their market.

One more thing. What makes you think that just because a product is cheap, it's worth buying? Do you believe the American worker/American consumer is that stupid? Let me tell you something, there are millions of Americans that would gladly spend those extra three bucks for that MADE IN THE USA coffee mug. I and millions of other Americans would rather spend an extra $30, even $100+, for that good quality, MADE IN THE USA, Carrier AC Unit, made in Indiana. I would gladly support American manufacturers, American patriot capitalists, who love this country and sincerely want to MAKE IT GREAT AGAIN. They have ALL of my support, my hard-earned money will FLOW into their coffers if they keep their businesses here in the USA.

Millions of Americans are itching, even desperate, to BUY AMERICAN. We'll gladly spend more, no problem, especially when we're making a decent wage. The middle class is good for it. The reason over half of America is just scraping by, barely making it at the end of the month, living paycheck to paycheck, without savings, heavily in debt, isn't due to the policies I'm proposing. It's due to right-wing, neo-liberal, Republican policies, that allow the rich to eat the poor and middle-class. Your ideology and policies have gutted the American middle class.

View attachment 792233


View attachment 792234

View attachment 792252​

The poor, of course, suffer.

Yes, they sure suffer, from far right-wing, neo-liberal capitalism. The extreme greed of un-patriotic, American multinational corporations and their brainwashed American working-class Republican drones, who ironically even pretend to be disciples of Jesus Christ. Complaining about workers wanting to "EAT THE RICH", when it's their capitalist masters who are eating the poor and working class. You lack discernment, due to your mammon worship. That's idolatry. Worship and serve God, not mammon. Life here is short, then we stand before God either in glory or in shame. We must prepare our souls, lest we fail to overcome.


You yearn for the days when America was the only major manufacturer on the planet and we could dictate prices.

Before 1945, we were far from the "only manufacturers on the planet", and yet American industry was more than competitive and robust. It was an INDUSTRIAL JUGGERNAUT.

We had a STRONG manufacturing base, not relying on another nation to provide us with EVERYTHING, as we do now. What has occurred is not due to the compassion of American capitalists, but their greed and hubris, wanting to make 10X more than what they make when they're based here at home. They were still making money here. In the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, the highest-paid CEOs made about 30X the salary of their lowest-paid workers. Today the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies make up to 1000X the salary of their workers. It's nuts and you support that demonic garbage.

Your economic worldview and ideology hurt the gospel. If you claim to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, and you support all of this capitalist hubris and greed, you're serving the devil, not the Son of the Living God. How can you govern as a member of Christ's royal family and body, in the world to come, if you are so indifferent to the needs of the people? Being so enamored by your lust for mammon and the wicked trinkets of this world. If you are born again and filled with the Holy Ghost, you can't continue behaving this way. Judgment will fall upon the church before it falls upon the world.

You're quick to condemn the LGBTQA+ lunacy and those who abort their unborn, then show complete indifference for the poor, pledging your allegiance to the rich, in pursuit of worldly wealth, rather than God's Kingdom. Repent brothers and sisters, that you may be filled with the Holy Spirit and empowered to serve God, in a broken and hurting world.

All we need to return to those days is another world war that decimates the manufacturing bases of all the other countries. Then, of course, we'll have those millions of people dead, but hey, who's counting?

View attachment 792239​

Our success and independence, as a nation, doesn't kill anyone. It's the type of capitalism that you promote (Milton Friedman Neo-Liberalism) that consumes and annihilates the world, keeping us on fossil fuels when we can easily build modern, safe, and clean nuclear plants, providing us with abundant electricity and even carbon-free liquid fuels. It is the extreme greed of our unpatriotic, demonic capitalists, that has us now on the brink of fighting WW3 with Russia and China. NATO, the Cold War dinosaur, didn't have to expand into Eastern Europe and poke the bear for thirty years. The MIC - Military Industrial Complex, LOVES selling weapons to NATO (to the US government and EU), for HUGE PROFITS.

You accuse me of supporting genocide, when the capitalists that you worship and praise are the ones who create the conditions for mass hunger and genocide, in pursuit of their $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ PROFITS.


There is one reason why corporations move operations to another country, and that is to offer a lower price.

View attachment 792243​

Do you realize that the poor in this country have access to things like TV's, phones, and fresh produce BECAUSE they are cheaper to produce in other countries?


WOW, those compassionate capitalists are so concerned about the poor and them having access to cheap Chinese televisions. Amazing. Really? Do you actually believe this nonsense? Capitalists move their factories and businesses abroad for dirt-cheap, heavily exploited labor. In those impoverished countries, government officials are in bed with foreign capitalists, to exploit their people as much as possible. Practically, no regulations, paying a buck an hour, if that. Then as a capitalist, you can import cheaply made products into the American market, paying little tariffs, if any, and MAKE A KILLING.

Why pay an American worker $15.00 hourly, with benefits, if you can go to Mexico, China, or Bangladesh, and pay a worker $1.00 hourly without benefits? Your factory can be constructed for much less, due to the lack of proper, safe building codes and you can practically do whatever you want to your employees. They can't unionize and they can work in the heat of summer with fans blowing rather than adequate air-conditioning, to keep them from dying of heat stroke. Are you that gone?

Why should American capitalists pay American workers $15.00 hourly or more (depending on the job they're doing), with benefits, and union protection? Because, that American unionized worker that is earning $15.00 hourly with benefits, is also YOUR CUSTOMER. That American worker is the American paying consumer. He needs some PURCHASING POWER. In the long-term, you will make more money as an American capitalist if you play by the rules and keep your factory here because you will be contributing positively to the success of the US economy, which your American customers and you rely on.

Your type of capitalism creates poverty that then places Americans in the precarious position of only affording cheap Chinese products. That's not even an issue, if Americans have good-paying jobs, earning a living wage. As I mentioned earlier, we will gladly pay more for good quality MADE IN THE USA. Walmart used to have MADE IN THE USA signs, all over their store. That ended in the late 80s, early 90s. The emphasis was MADE IN THE USA. You're creating poverty, by stripping Americans of their good-paying union jobs.


Force everything to be made in the US by union labor and the prices would go sky high. The poor would suffer the most, of course.

That's a strawman, I never said FORCE EVERYTHING TO BE MADE IN THE USA. That was never the case, even in the heyday of our manufacturing. What I am saying, is that we need to restore our manufacturing base, bringing a lot more manufacturing and good-paying jobs to the US and have an economy that works, just not for the rich and powerful, but for the working class as well. Your claim that if workers are unionized and getting paid a good wage, prices will automatically go up, is not true, due to the fact that companies can receive plenty of incentives from the government, such as tax cuts, contracts, loans, and even protection and subsidies when warranted. If you study our history, you'll discover that the US government had a big hand in America becoming industrialized and later the #1 economy.


Today CEOs make too much money, cutting into worker salaries and benefits. Corporations are strictly profit-oriented, trying to satisfy the demands of their shareholders, rather than seeing their businesses as a service to the country and their communities. The present business "ethos" and priorities of American big business have to change. Either it wakes up and realizes that the economy has to work for everyone, not just the rich or the working class eventually will reach the end of its rope, the breaking point, and the pitchforks will come out. When that occurs, the rich lose everything. They're pushing working-class people, into a position that makes socialism look good. Extreme greedy capitalists are the best propagators of socialism.

Hey Newbie, nobody is wasting their time on that unhinged diatribe of bullshit.

HTH.

 

[gipper]

Hey Newbie, nobody is wasting their time on that unhinged diatribe of bullshit.

HTH.

He tried to tell you long ago, but it’s not too late.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Yes! Because the politicians have been fiscally irresponsible and have made such wise decisions the past hundred years we should give them more money to spend!

Example #7,034 leftism is a mental disorder.

Complain About Not Having a Say in the Ruling Class's Anti-Democratic Constitution

Income-tax forms should allow the taxpayer to apportion what he has to pay as a percentage to each Department. Let's see if those who complain about waste really just want to pay less. If one Department gets a bad reputation, it will lose money as taxpayers apportion less to it.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Hey Newbie, nobody is wasting their time on that unhinged diatribe of bullshit.

HTH.

It's the facts, which you refuse to accept. Point out specifically what I said that is "BS" in that post. Be specific.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

we'd better have another world war that decimates the industrial capabilities of all the other nations so we're the only major manufacturer on the planet. You know, some of those things.

The Upper Class and Its Institutions Became the Ruling Class

What about all the other countries that were undamaged by World War Two? They didn't rise over the countries that were decimated. So that was not the reason for our success. And even if you accept that it was, it was no excuse to lose our lead when Europe and Japan recovered.

Strong unions and more pay for non-college graduates made us dominant. Besides, back in the 50s a smart employee could start at the bottom and work his way to the top. One-third of the CEOs had not gone to college; most of those who did were only following a tradition of the upper class and didn't rise because of their "education."

Another reason was forced integration with incompatible and unproductive races, which was also designed to break up union solidarity.

If some explanation becomes the required answer, it can never be trusted because a parasitic and scheming ruling class creates all the required answers with its control over received opinions.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You think it's about profits?

Yes sir, it's ALL about profits. The bottom line of capitalist production is profits, not meeting human needs or providing cheap products to paying consumers. If you believe capitalism is more than that, I have a bridge to sell you here in Brooklyn.

View attachment 792223​

The only reason they move manufacturing is the consumer wants to pay the lowest price.

View attachment 792224
​

Sure, it's not because they want to make extreme profits, hiring dirt-cheap labor abroad, protected by "free-trade" agreements. It's because the "compassionate capitalists", "love" American consumers so much, that they close factories here in the United States, laying off millions of American workers (American consumers), in order to lovingly sell them a coffee mug made in China, that is three bucks cheaper than the American made coffee mug. As if the American consumer would rather throw away their good-paying job with benefits, to pay three bucks less for a Chinese coffee mug...

View attachment 792226​

Force it to stay here and prices go through the roof.

Having a robust American manufacturing base for over a century in this country, that employed unionized workers, proves you wrong (study the history of our economy). If American capitalists aren't allowed to close their factories here in America (destroying millions of jobs in the process and our economy), due to high tariffs and a loss of all of their tax breaks, subsidies, no-interest loans, contracts, free government services that assist American manufacturers compete with foreign companies and provide Americans with good paying jobs, these capitalists, won't leave.

It would be stupid for them to turn their factory into an import warehouse and distribution center, for their Mexican and Chinese-made products, if they're going to be paying high tariffs and lose all of the aforementioned benefits. More, if the capitalists are so greedy, that they refuse to conduct their business based here in the United States (at home, where they sell their products and extract their profits), the US government can very easily, start a campaign to restore our manufacturing base and create jobs, by incentivizing American workers, to launch worker-owned and run cooperatives. Capitalists hate having to compete with worker cooperatives because the bottom line of a cooperative isn't profits, it's securing jobs.

What privately owned business enterprises consider an "overhead" i.e. the cost of doing business, worker-cooperatives consider profits. If the light bill and other utilities of the factory are paid, and workers are paid their salaries, that's it. Is it good to have a surplus or "profit" when you're running a cooperative? Yes, it's good to generate a profit, over salaries. But, a cooperative can survive and thrive even without a huge profit, if any. Cooperatives are able to invest more into their companies, and lower prices for the consumer (isn't that the core of your argument for capitalists leaving America?). Cooperatives have more resources to benefit the consumer because they can use the profits to lower prices and provide better service to their customers. How about that?

We really don't need greedy, rich capitalists, in order to create good-paying jobs. We can have a manufacturing base that consists of worker-owned and run cooperatives, like this:

(We don't need capitalists to create jobs. Today if workers go to the SBA - Small Business Administration, or to a private bank, to get a start-up loan, to launch a cooperative, the odds of them getting that money is extremely unlikely. Capitalists have rigged the system, to make it difficult if not impossible for workers to start worker-owned and run cooperatives. But the government could very easily fix that, and end the tyranny of these non-democratic companies, that hold the working-class hostage.)​

Or we can have our government give every American a job guarantee in the public sector (capitalists hate government job guarantees for working-class people because it undercuts their ability to terrorize workers with unemployment. When jobs are scarce the capitalists have more leverage to negotiate for lower wages and benefits).

If Americans can't find a job in the private sector, they'll have one waiting for them in the public sector. There's a lot of work to be done, plenty of jobs, paving our highways and city streets, rebuilding our bridges and maintaining them, among many other jobs. We have a lot to do in this country in order to MAKE IT GREAT AGAIN. The US government could provide America, with millions of good-paying jobs with benefits, as it did in the 1930s, with FDR's New Deal.

So if mammon-worshiping capitalists want to close our factories here and move them abroad, they lose profits and control over their market, losing their customers to worker cooperatives and businesses that remain operating here in the USA.

One more thing. What makes you think that just because a product is cheap, it's worth buying? Do you believe the American worker/American consumer is that stupid? Let me tell you something, there are millions of Americans that would gladly spend those extra three bucks for that MADE IN THE USA coffee mug. I and millions of other Americans would rather spend an extra $30, even $100+, for that good quality, MADE IN THE USA, Carrier AC Unit, made in Indiana. I would gladly support American manufacturers, American patriot capitalists, who love this country and sincerely want to MAKE IT GREAT AGAIN. They have ALL of my support, my hard-earned money will FLOW into their coffers if they keep their businesses here in the USA.

Millions of Americans are itching, even desperate, to BUY AMERICAN. We'll gladly spend more, no problem, especially when we're making a decent wage. The middle class is good for it. The reason over half of America is just scraping by, barely making it at the end of the month, living paycheck to paycheck, without savings, heavily in debt, isn't due to the policies I'm proposing. It's due to right-wing, neo-liberal, Republican policies, that allow the rich to eat the poor and middle-class. Your ideology and policies have gutted the American middle class.

View attachment 792233


View attachment 792234

View attachment 792252​

The poor, of course, suffer.

Yes, they sure suffer, from far right-wing, neo-liberal capitalism. The extreme greed of un-patriotic, American multinational corporations and their brainwashed American working-class Republican drones, who ironically even pretend to be disciples of Jesus Christ. Complaining about workers wanting to "EAT THE RICH", when it's their capitalist masters who are eating the poor and working class. You lack discernment, due to your mammon worship. That's idolatry. Worship and serve God, not mammon. Life here is short, then we stand before God either in glory or in shame. We must prepare our souls, lest we fail to overcome.


You yearn for the days when America was the only major manufacturer on the planet and we could dictate prices.

Before 1945, we were far from the "only manufacturers on the planet", and yet American industry was more than competitive and robust. It was an INDUSTRIAL JUGGERNAUT.

We had a STRONG manufacturing base, not relying on another nation to provide us with EVERYTHING, as we do now. What has occurred is not due to the compassion of American capitalists, but their greed and hubris, wanting to make 10X more than what they make when they're based here at home. They were still making money here. In the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, the highest-paid CEOs made about 30X the salary of their lowest-paid workers. Today the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies make up to 1000X the salary of their workers. It's nuts and you support that demonic garbage.

Your economic worldview and ideology hurt the gospel. If you claim to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, and you support all of this capitalist hubris and greed, you're serving the devil, not the Son of the Living God. How can you govern as a member of Christ's royal family and body, in the world to come, if you are so indifferent to the needs of the people? Being so enamored by your lust for mammon and the wicked trinkets of this world. If you are born again and filled with the Holy Ghost, you can't continue behaving this way. Judgment will fall upon the church before it falls upon the world.

You're quick to condemn the LGBTQA+ lunacy and those who abort their unborn, then show complete indifference for the poor, pledging your allegiance to the rich, in pursuit of worldly wealth, rather than God's Kingdom. Repent brothers and sisters, that you may be filled with the Holy Spirit and empowered to serve God, in a broken and hurting world.

All we need to return to those days is another world war that decimates the manufacturing bases of all the other countries. Then, of course, we'll have those millions of people dead, but hey, who's counting?

View attachment 792239​

Our success and independence, as a nation, doesn't kill anyone. It's the type of capitalism that you promote (Milton Friedman Neo-Liberalism) that consumes and annihilates the world, keeping us on fossil fuels when we can easily build modern, safe, and clean nuclear plants, providing us with abundant electricity and even carbon-free liquid fuels. It is the extreme greed of our unpatriotic, demonic capitalists, that has us now on the brink of fighting WW3 with Russia and China. NATO, the Cold War dinosaur, didn't have to expand into Eastern Europe and poke the bear for thirty years. The MIC - Military Industrial Complex, LOVES selling weapons to NATO (to the US government and EU), for HUGE PROFITS.

You accuse me of supporting genocide, when the capitalists that you worship and praise are the ones who create the conditions for mass hunger and genocide, in pursuit of their $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ PROFITS.


There is one reason why corporations move operations to another country, and that is to offer a lower price.

View attachment 792243​

Do you realize that the poor in this country have access to things like TV's, phones, and fresh produce BECAUSE they are cheaper to produce in other countries?


WOW, those compassionate capitalists are so concerned about the poor and them having access to cheap Chinese televisions. Amazing. Really? Do you actually believe this nonsense? Capitalists move their factories and businesses abroad for dirt-cheap, heavily exploited labor. In those impoverished countries, government officials are in bed with foreign capitalists, to exploit their people as much as possible. Practically, no regulations, paying a buck an hour, if that. Then as a capitalist, you can import cheaply made products into the American market, paying little tariffs, if any, and MAKE A KILLING.

Why pay an American worker $15.00 hourly, with benefits, if you can go to Mexico, China, or Bangladesh, and pay a worker $1.00 hourly without benefits? Your factory can be constructed for much less, due to the lack of proper, safe building codes and you can practically do whatever you want to your employees. They can't unionize and they can work in the heat of summer with fans blowing rather than adequate air-conditioning, to keep them from dying of heat stroke. Are you that gone?

Why should American capitalists pay American workers $15.00 hourly or more (depending on the job they're doing), with benefits, and union protection? Because, that American unionized worker that is earning $15.00 hourly with benefits, is also YOUR CUSTOMER. That American worker is the American paying consumer. He needs some PURCHASING POWER. In the long-term, you will make more money as an American capitalist if you play by the rules and keep your factory here because you will be contributing positively to the success of the US economy, which your American customers and you rely on.

Your type of capitalism creates poverty that then places Americans in the precarious position of only affording cheap Chinese products. That's not even an issue, if Americans have good-paying jobs, earning a living wage. As I mentioned earlier, we will gladly pay more for good quality MADE IN THE USA. Walmart used to have MADE IN THE USA signs, all over their store. That ended in the late 80s, early 90s. The emphasis was MADE IN THE USA. You're creating poverty, by stripping Americans of their good-paying union jobs.


Force everything to be made in the US by union labor and the prices would go sky high. The poor would suffer the most, of course.

That's a straw man, I never said FORCE EVERYTHING TO BE MADE IN THE USA. That was never the case, even in the heyday of our manufacturing. What I am saying, is that we need to restore our manufacturing base, bringing a lot more manufacturing and good-paying jobs to the US and have an economy that works, just not for the rich and powerful, but for the working class as well. Your claim that if workers are unionized and getting paid a good wage, prices will automatically go up, is not true, due to the fact that companies can receive plenty of incentives from the government, such as tax cuts, contracts, loans, and even protection and subsidies when warranted. If you study our history, you'll discover that the US government had a big hand in America becoming industrialized and later the #1 economy.


Today CEOs make too much money, cutting into worker salaries and benefits. Corporations are strictly profit-oriented, trying to satisfy the demands of their shareholders, rather than seeing their businesses as a service to the country and their communities. The present business "ethos" and priorities of American big business have to change. Either it wakes up and realizes that the economy has to work for everyone, not just the rich or the working class eventually will reach the end of its rope, the breaking point, and the pitchforks will come out. When that occurs, the rich lose everything. They're pushing working-class people, into a position that makes socialism look good. Extreme greedy capitalists are the best propagators of socialism.

The C Word

Quit using the term "Capitalism." We are programmed to think that the only alternative to that trigger-word is Communism. And nobody wants that fraud, a hostile takeover of Capitalism by the owners' sons posing as a political party.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The C Word

Quit using the term "Capitalism." We are programmed to think that the only alternative to that trigger-word is Communism. And nobody wants that fraud, a hostile takeover of Capitalism by the owners' sons posing as a political party.

I'm not saying anything about communism for the masses or general population, but rather a capitalism that works for everybody. Using the terms capitalist and capitalism doesn't make someone a communist. That's your misconception. More, just because people don't like the way I use the word "capitalist" or "capitalism", doesn't make me wrong. My views can be 100% correct, despite me using the term "capitalist" or capitalism, in the way I do.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

True. But the Costco employees are the ones that take it on the chin. The nation is for the Uber wealthy.

Turning the Mooch Into Mulch

Whether they are for or against the plutocracy, Americans are programmed by it to not distinguish between earned wealth and inherited wealth, including increasing that wealth by getting in a position through Daddy's Money and Connections that makes it a lot easier to earn a lot of money. We are empowering parasites to rule over us in all ways.

As for taxes, if we confiscate all inherited wealth, there will be no rational need to have an income tax or corporate tax. We can use that to invest in the most valuable human resources instead of unproductively demanding that they invest in themselves.

A seed doesn't grow in sand. And the sand comes from the rubble that the freeloading HeirHeads inevitably leave as a consequence of their unearned domination

 

[TruthNotBS]

Turning the Mooch Into Mulch

Whether they are for or against the plutocracy, Americans are programmed by it to not distinguish between earned wealth and inherited wealth, including increasing that wealth by getting in a position through Daddy's Money and Connections that makes it a lot easier to earn a lot of money. We are empowering parasites to rule over us in all ways.

As for taxes, if we confiscate all inherited wealth, there will be no rational need to have an income tax or corporate tax. We can use that to invest in the most valuable human resources instead of unproductively demanding that they invest in themselves.

A seed doesn't grow in sand. And the sand comes from the rubble that the freeloading HeirHeads inevitably leave as a consequence of their unearned domination

You're accusing me of communism while confiscating everyone's inheritance? Sure, OK.

 

[Nostra]

It's the facts, which you refuse to accept. Point out specifically what I said that is "BS" in that post. Be specific.

What part of my post confused you, Simp?

 

[TruthNotBS]

What part of my post confused you, Simp?

The confusion is yours because you're unable to back up any of your accusations. You're saying my post is just a "diatribe". How so? Can you answer that question? No, you can't. It's just a silly charge without substance. Be specific, as to how what I wrote is a diatribe. How am I wrong, in your opinion? If you can't answer that simple question, then you have no argument, just childish insults.

 

[Nostra]

The confusion is yours because you're unable to back up any of your accusations. You're saying my post is just a "diatribe". How so? Can you answer that question? No, you can't. It's just a silly charge without substance. Be specific, as to how what I wrote is a diatribe. How am I wrong, in your opinion? If you can't answer that simple question, then you have no argument, just childish insults.

Try reading my post as many times as it takes for you to get up to speed, Simp.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Try reading my post as many times as it takes for you to get up to speed, Simp.

You have no argument.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You also forgot to mention that Cuba is economically sabotaged by the united states through an economic embargo. It's sanctioned by the most powerful empire in world history.

Ideology Is a Spitball Fight at a Prep School

Castro's father employed 250 people. The reason he was allowed to develop his fake-revolutionary movement right out in the open was that he was a son of the ruling class. One faction of this guillotine-fodder class will kill off the other faction, but the 99% will get the same raw deal.

This was brought out in the Robert Redford movie, Havana.
Our heiristocracy's Hollywood purposely put the revealing explanation, "The rich, first they screw us from the Right. Then they get tired of that and screw us from the Left" in the lines of a brutal police chief in order to discredit it.

 

[hadit]

You think it's about profits?

Yes sir, it's ALL about profits. The bottom line of capitalist production is profits, not meeting human needs or providing cheap products to paying consumers. If you believe capitalism is more than that, I have a bridge to sell you here in Brooklyn.

View attachment 792223​

The only reason they move manufacturing is the consumer wants to pay the lowest price.

View attachment 792224
​

Sure, it's not because they want to make extreme profits, hiring dirt-cheap labor abroad, protected by "free-trade" agreements. It's because the "compassionate capitalists", "love" American consumers so much, that they close factories here in the United States, laying off millions of American workers (American consumers), in order to lovingly sell them a coffee mug made in China, that is three bucks cheaper than the American made coffee mug. As if the American consumer would rather throw away their good-paying job with benefits, to pay three bucks less for a Chinese coffee mug...

View attachment 792226​

Force it to stay here and prices go through the roof.

Having a robust American manufacturing base for over a century in this country, that employed unionized workers, proves you wrong (study the history of our economy). If American capitalists aren't allowed to close their factories here in America (destroying millions of jobs in the process and our economy), due to high tariffs and a loss of all of their tax breaks, subsidies, no-interest loans, contracts, free government services that assist American manufacturers compete with foreign companies and provide Americans with good paying jobs, these capitalists, won't leave.

It would be stupid for them to turn their factory into an import warehouse and distribution center, for their Mexican and Chinese-made products, if they're going to be paying high tariffs and lose all of the aforementioned benefits. More, if the capitalists are so greedy, that they refuse to conduct their business based here in the United States (at home, where they sell their products and extract their profits), the US government can very easily, start a campaign to restore our manufacturing base and create jobs, by incentivizing American workers, to launch worker-owned and run cooperatives. Capitalists hate having to compete with worker cooperatives because the bottom line of a cooperative isn't profits, it's securing jobs.

What privately owned business enterprises consider an "overhead" i.e. the cost of doing business, worker-cooperatives consider profits. If the light bill and other utilities of the factory are paid, and workers are paid their salaries, that's it. Is it good to have a surplus or "profit" when you're running a cooperative? Yes, it's good to generate a profit, over salaries. But, a cooperative can survive and thrive even without a huge profit, if any. Cooperatives are able to invest more into their companies, and lower prices for the consumer (isn't that the core of your argument for capitalists leaving America?). Cooperatives have more resources to benefit the consumer because they can use the profits to lower prices and provide better service to their customers. How about that?

We really don't need greedy, rich capitalists, in order to create good-paying jobs. We can have a manufacturing base that consists of worker-owned and run cooperatives, like this:

(We don't need capitalists to create jobs. Today if workers go to the SBA - Small Business Administration, or to a private bank, to get a start-up loan, to launch a cooperative, the odds of them getting that money is extremely unlikely. Capitalists have rigged the system, to make it difficult if not impossible for workers to start worker-owned and run cooperatives. But the government could very easily fix that, and end the tyranny of these non-democratic companies, that hold the working-class hostage.)​

You certainly have the buzzwords down pat. Very little in the way of substantiating anything beyond insisting that it's true because you say so, but hey, who's counting?

Or we can have our government give every American a job guarantee in the public sector (capitalists hate government job guarantees for working-class people because it undercuts their ability to terrorize workers with unemployment. When jobs are scarce the capitalists have more leverage to negotiate for lower wages and benefits).

Haven't you noticed that jobs are plentiful right now? In fact, companies can't get enough GOOD workers. The ones they find don't do the job right anymore, so don't deserve high pay.

If Americans can't find a job in the private sector, they'll have one waiting for them in the public sector. There's a lot of work to be done, plenty of jobs, paving our highways and city streets, rebuilding our bridges and maintaining them, among many other jobs. We have a lot to do in this country in order to MAKE IT GREAT AGAIN. The US government could provide America, with millions of good-paying jobs with benefits, as it did in the 1930s, with FDR's New Deal.

And bankrupt us all the faster. FDR didn't have 30 trillion in debt to deal with, we do.

So if mammon-worshiping capitalists want to close our factories here and move them abroad, they lose profits and control over their market, losing their customers to worker cooperatives and businesses that remain operating here in the USA.

Where is that actually happening?

One more thing. What makes you think that just because a product is cheap, it's worth buying? Do you believe the American worker/American consumer is that stupid?

I absolutely believe the American consumer will pay the lowest price he can find to pay, even at lower quality, especially when it's a choice between cheap shoes and no shoes, cheap TV or no TV.

Let me tell you something, there are millions of Americans that would gladly spend those extra three bucks for that MADE IN THE USA coffee mug. I and millions of other Americans would rather spend an extra $30, even $100+, for that good quality, MADE IN THE USA, Carrier AC Unit, made in Indiana. I would gladly support American manufacturers, American patriot capitalists, who love this country and sincerely want to MAKE IT GREAT AGAIN. They have ALL of my support, my hard-earned money will FLOW into their coffers if they keep their businesses here in the USA.

Millions of Americans are itching, even desperate, to BUY AMERICAN. We'll gladly spend more, no problem, especially when we're making a decent wage. The middle class is good for it. The reason over half of America is just scraping by, barely making it at the end of the month, living paycheck to paycheck, without savings, heavily in debt, isn't due to the policies I'm proposing. It's due to right-wing, neo-liberal, Republican policies, that allow the rich to eat the poor and middle-class. Your ideology and policies have gutted the American middle class.

Wow, you actually think Americans want to spend more to have American made goods. No reason to read any further than that. Here's your homework assignment. Go stand outside your local Walmart and ask 100 people as they exit if they are, as you say, "itching, even desperate" to buy American, ESPECIALLY when it means they pay a lot more. Come back and tell us how it went.