What fuels the hate.

[Sixties Fan]

What fuels the hate? Well...

I've been looking, but I can't find an uncut version of this video. I can't even find the date or the location.

But this is EXACTLY what fuels hatred -- videos posted without meaning or context, cut to show only one, narrow narrative and meant to demonize Israel and Jews as evil.

Even the full documentary looks cut and spliced.

I found this:

‘Budrus’ Becomes Part of a Palestinian Debate

Notice that it says that the incident happened during the intifada and Israel was trying to build security barriers (to save Jewish and non Jewish lives?)
In the end Israel raised the security barrier around that village.

So, here is the main question:

Would that security barrier, and all other security barriers have been necessary if the Arabs had accepted living in a Sovereign Jewish State since the Balfour declaration was signed?

What would have happened if the Husseini clan and all others, saw the advantages of having the Jews recreate their former Nation on their own ancestral land, as so many other Arab clans wanted to?

What would have happened if the Arabs had accepted the 1937 Partition?

Or the 1947 Partition?

Or the 2000 Peace treaty?

Or the 2008 Peace treaty?


When is the farce of the "poor us Palestinians" going to end and the Arabs who want peace with Israel get control of their lives in Gaza and in Areas A and B in order to be able to sit and negotiate a long lasting peace with Israel as they do wish, but have no power to do so far?

How can they when Iran, Qatar, the Arab League and all of those foreign Arabs keep getting in the way of them doing so.


Sit. Negotiate. Sign the Peace Treaty. Stop abusing the poor Arab people who do not have the voice, as their leaders will allow them none.

From your link:

Israel was building a security barrier, a mix of fencing and wall, to block terrorists. But the route was swallowing up large tracts of Palestinian land and was impossibly disruptive in places, including in the village of Budrus. Scores of ancient olive trees that provided a living were uprooted, and the villagers were going to be cut off from their farmlands.​

Of course the Palestinians objected to this theft of their land and livelihood.

Some of that land did not get "swallowed" in the end.

Stop crying about it.

It was all the doing of the PA and them starting an intifada to kill Jews. And Jews are just supposed to sit and wait until an Arab comes and kills them. Yeah, sure.....

By the way, where are the Budrus protests against the Intifada which the PA provoked which required Israel to build those security walls to save lives?

Do you have any of those videos to share? I would be definitely interested in seeing Arabs protesting Abbas and the PA and that government's need to incite Arabs to kill Jews. Or any showing Arabs protesting Arafat and the first intifada.

Where are the "let's have Peace with Israel " protests any time from 1948 until today?

How can you have peace with an occupation whose goal it is to steal all of your land.

Thank you for acknowledging that the Arabs are the occupiers and they mean to swallow all of Israel, including Judea and Samaria, to create their Caliphate .

You finally got a hold of what is fueling the hatred on the Arab side.

The Arab/Islamic Imperialistic conquest of all of the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe makes it difficult for Muslims like the Arabs to give up any inch of that conquered land to non Muslims.

Which explains why some of them absolutely refuse to allow Jews to be sovereign on their own ancient land, which has been conquered by Muslims and Christians for the past 1400 years.


When is the hatred for Jews going to end and Peace come to the area, already?

 

[P F Tinmore]

How can you have peace with an occupation whose goal it is to steal all of your land.

The first step would be to stop framing it that way and recognize that the Jewish people have rights to that land as well, because of their ancestral and historical claims to it. Then peace is easy. So, since its OBVIOUS that the Jewish people have ancestral and historical claims, why don't the Arabs begin to frame it that way?

Because the land was ceded to Palestine and they became citizens. This included the Jews who were Turkish citizens. They were not excluded.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Link

I've been looking, but I can't find an uncut version of this video. I can't even find the date or the location.

But this is EXACTLY what fuels hatred -- videos posted without meaning or context, cut to show only one, narrow narrative and meant to demonize Israel and Jews as evil.

Even the full documentary looks cut and spliced.

I found this:

‘Budrus’ Becomes Part of a Palestinian Debate

Notice that it says that the incident happened during the intifada and Israel was trying to build security barriers (to save Jewish and non Jewish lives?)
In the end Israel raised the security barrier around that village.

So, here is the main question:

Would that security barrier, and all other security barriers have been necessary if the Arabs had accepted living in a Sovereign Jewish State since the Balfour declaration was signed?

What would have happened if the Husseini clan and all others, saw the advantages of having the Jews recreate their former Nation on their own ancestral land, as so many other Arab clans wanted to?

What would have happened if the Arabs had accepted the 1937 Partition?

Or the 1947 Partition?

Or the 2000 Peace treaty?

Or the 2008 Peace treaty?


When is the farce of the "poor us Palestinians" going to end and the Arabs who want peace with Israel get control of their lives in Gaza and in Areas A and B in order to be able to sit and negotiate a long lasting peace with Israel as they do wish, but have no power to do so far?

How can they when Iran, Qatar, the Arab League and all of those foreign Arabs keep getting in the way of them doing so.


Sit. Negotiate. Sign the Peace Treaty. Stop abusing the poor Arab people who do not have the voice, as their leaders will allow them none.

From your link:

Israel was building a security barrier, a mix of fencing and wall, to block terrorists. But the route was swallowing up large tracts of Palestinian land and was impossibly disruptive in places, including in the village of Budrus. Scores of ancient olive trees that provided a living were uprooted, and the villagers were going to be cut off from their farmlands.​

Of course the Palestinians objected to this theft of their land and livelihood.

Some of that land did not get "swallowed" in the end.

Stop crying about it.

It was all the doing of the PA and them starting an intifada to kill Jews. And Jews are just supposed to sit and wait until an Arab comes and kills them. Yeah, sure.....

By the way, where are the Budrus protests against the Intifada which the PA provoked which required Israel to build those security walls to save lives?

Do you have any of those videos to share? I would be definitely interested in seeing Arabs protesting Abbas and the PA and that government's need to incite Arabs to kill Jews. Or any showing Arabs protesting Arafat and the first intifada.

Where are the "let's have Peace with Israel " protests any time from 1948 until today?

How can you have peace with an occupation whose goal it is to steal all of your land.

Thank you for acknowledging that the Arabs are the occupiers and they mean to swallow all of Israel, including Judea and Samaria, to create their Caliphate .

You finally got a hold of what is fueling the hatred on the Arab side.

The Arab/Islamic Imperialistic conquest of all of the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe makes it difficult for Muslims like the Arabs to give up any inch of that conquered land to non Muslims.

Which explains why some of them absolutely refuse to allow Jews to be sovereign on their own ancient land, which has been conquered by Muslims and Christians for the past 1400 years.


When is the hatred for Jews going to end and Peace come to the area, already?

Links?

 

[Shusha]

How can you have peace with an occupation whose goal it is to steal all of your land.

The first step would be to stop framing it that way and recognize that the Jewish people have rights to that land as well, because of their ancestral and historical claims to it. Then peace is easy. So, since its OBVIOUS that the Jewish people have ancestral and historical claims, why don't the Arabs begin to frame it that way?

Because the land was ceded to Palestine and they became citizens. This included the Jews who were Turkish citizens. They were not excluded.

Right. The Jewish people were also citizens of Palestine. Take the next step. Both Jewish citizens of Palestine and Arab citizens of Palestine have the same rights. It is not Arab Palestinian land. It is a land shared between two ethnic communities.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How can you have peace with an occupation whose goal it is to steal all of your land.

The first step would be to stop framing it that way and recognize that the Jewish people have rights to that land as well, because of their ancestral and historical claims to it. Then peace is easy. So, since its OBVIOUS that the Jewish people have ancestral and historical claims, why don't the Arabs begin to frame it that way?

Because the land was ceded to Palestine and they became citizens. This included the Jews who were Turkish citizens. They were not excluded.

Right. The Jewish people were also citizens of Palestine. Take the next step. Both Jewish citizens of Palestine and Arab citizens of Palestine have the same rights. It is not Arab Palestinian land. It is a land shared between two ethnic communities.

Of course the Zionist settler colonial project is a different group of Jews. They were not Turkish citizens.

 

[Sixties Fan]

How can you have peace with an occupation whose goal it is to steal all of your land.

The first step would be to stop framing it that way and recognize that the Jewish people have rights to that land as well, because of their ancestral and historical claims to it. Then peace is easy. So, since its OBVIOUS that the Jewish people have ancestral and historical claims, why don't the Arabs begin to frame it that way?

Because the land was ceded to Palestine and they became citizens. This included the Jews who were Turkish citizens. They were not excluded.

Right. The Jewish people were also citizens of Palestine. Take the next step. Both Jewish citizens of Palestine and Arab citizens of Palestine have the same rights. It is not Arab Palestinian land. It is a land shared between two ethnic communities.

Of course the Zionist settler colonial project is a different group of Jews. They were not Turkish citizens.

The Zionists are not a different Jewish group. Stop the farce !!!!

The Jews never stopped returning to their ancient land, at any time of their history, be it from any part of Asia, Europe, or later on the Americas, etc.

The Jews are the Jews, and most of the 15 Million of them are Zionists. With 6 Million of them living in the State of Israel today.

Stop the farce !!!!

 

[Hollie]

How can you have peace with an occupation whose goal it is to steal all of your land.

The first step would be to stop framing it that way and recognize that the Jewish people have rights to that land as well, because of their ancestral and historical claims to it. Then peace is easy. So, since its OBVIOUS that the Jewish people have ancestral and historical claims, why don't the Arabs begin to frame it that way?

Because the land was ceded to Palestine and they became citizens. This included the Jews who were Turkish citizens. They were not excluded.

When did the Turk / Islamist settler colonial project ever legally acquire the land area known as Palestine?

 

[Shusha]

Of course the Zionist settler colonial project is a different group of Jews. They were not Turkish citizens.

Using terms like "Zionist settler colonial project" perpetuates the hate. It frames the discussion as a "people" vs. a "project", which is dehumanizing. It strips the Jewish people of their Jewishness and turns them into "zionists" which carries a negative connotation, even though there is nothing negative about the concept itself. It makes Jews not only foreigners in their own land, but implies some sort of white supremacy in the notion of colonial domination.

There are no Jewish people who are foreigners to the land. The Jewish people are simply people living in a forced diaspora who want to return to their ancestral and historical land. They are NO different than the Palestinians in their forced diaspora who want to return to their lands.

Why not, when we have discussions on a board like this or in RL, just call them people? The Jewish people. The Arab Palestinian people.

 

[Shusha]

Of course the Zionist settler colonial project is a different group of Jews. They were not Turkish citizens.

We are not discussing individual rights -- but collective rights. The Jewish people, collectively, are one of two distinct ethnic communities with claims to that territory. The Jewish citizens of Palestine have the same rights as the Arab citizens of Palestine. If one group has the right to self-determination, then so does the other group. Its a collective right.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How can you have peace with an occupation whose goal it is to steal all of your land.

The first step would be to stop framing it that way and recognize that the Jewish people have rights to that land as well, because of their ancestral and historical claims to it. Then peace is easy. So, since its OBVIOUS that the Jewish people have ancestral and historical claims, why don't the Arabs begin to frame it that way?

Because the land was ceded to Palestine and they became citizens. This included the Jews who were Turkish citizens. They were not excluded.

When did the Turk / Islamist settler colonial project ever legally acquire the land area known as Palestine?

It was probably just stolen. Of course that was not illegal back then. However, this brings up some interesting issues.

The Ottomans had a land rights not a land ownership system. These rights could be bought, sold, rented, or inherited. As long as the lease was paid and the land was worked, the land could not be taken.

Virtually all of Palestine's cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman Empire. May we assume that those who held the rights were the previous owners. That seems to be the case due to the continuity of the population.

I read someplace that Britain was in the process of changing these rights into ownership. Again assuming that they were the original owners. I haven't seen much about this though.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Of course the Zionist settler colonial project is a different group of Jews. They were not Turkish citizens.

Using terms like "Zionist settler colonial project" perpetuates the hate. It frames the discussion as a "people" vs. a "project", which is dehumanizing. It strips the Jewish people of their Jewishness and turns them into "zionists" which carries a negative connotation, even though there is nothing negative about the concept itself. It makes Jews not only foreigners in their own land, but implies some sort of white supremacy in the notion of colonial domination.

There are no Jewish people who are foreigners to the land. The Jewish people are simply people living in a forced diaspora who want to return to their ancestral and historical land. They are NO different than the Palestinians in their forced diaspora who want to return to their lands.

Why not, when we have discussions on a board like this or in RL, just call them people? The Jewish people. The Arab Palestinian people.

Using terms like "Zionist settler colonial project" perpetuates the hate.

For one, I use the term Zionist because that is what they called themselves.

For two, both Britain and the Zionists called their project colonialism.

So these are both their terms not mine.

 

[Hollie]

How can you have peace with an occupation whose goal it is to steal all of your land.

The first step would be to stop framing it that way and recognize that the Jewish people have rights to that land as well, because of their ancestral and historical claims to it. Then peace is easy. So, since its OBVIOUS that the Jewish people have ancestral and historical claims, why don't the Arabs begin to frame it that way?

Because the land was ceded to Palestine and they became citizens. This included the Jews who were Turkish citizens. They were not excluded.

When did the Turk / Islamist settler colonial project ever legally acquire the land area known as Palestine?

It was probably just stolen. Of course that was not illegal back then. However, this brings up some interesting issues.

The Ottomans had a land rights not a land ownership system. These rights could be bought, sold, rented, or inherited. As long as the lease was paid and the land was worked, the land could not be taken.

Virtually all of Palestine's cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman Empire. May we assume that those who held the rights were the previous owners. That seems to be the case due to the continuity of the population.

I read someplace that Britain was in the process of changing these rights into ownership. Again assuming that they were the original owners. I haven't seen much about this though.

You might want to cut and paste your whining and moaning about Jooooos into the thread dedicated to your whining and moaning about Jooooos:

The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

 

[Shusha]

For one, I use the term Zionist because that is what they called themselves.

For two, both Britain and the Zionists called their project colonialism.

So these are both their terms not mine.

Oh, give me a break. Other than that one stupid new article that monte keeps bringing up from 1889 or whenever it was, which uses a totally different connotation for the word, NO ONE on this board on the pro-Israel side uses either the terms Zionist or colonialism. You deliberately use these terms because they have a negative connotation.

I challenge you for a week, just one week, not to use any negative terms when describing the Jewish people. Use only positive terms, especially "the Jewish people". Do it as a step towards ceasing to fuel the hate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

For one, I use the term Zionist because that is what they called themselves.

For two, both Britain and the Zionists called their project colonialism.

So these are both their terms not mine.

Oh, give me a break. Other than that one stupid new article that monte keeps bringing up from 1889 or whenever it was, which uses a totally different connotation for the word, NO ONE on this board on the pro-Israel side uses either the terms Zionist or colonialism. You deliberately use these terms because they have a negative connotation.

I challenge you for a week, just one week, not to use any negative terms when describing the Jewish people. Use only positive terms, especially "the Jewish people". Do it as a step towards ceasing to fuel the hate.

Colonialism, Colonization, and Land Law in Mandate Palestine: The Zor al-Zarqa and Barrat Qisarya Land Disputes in Historical Perspective

The conception of British-ruled Palestine as a colonial space has been complicated by the national struggle between Jewish settlers and indigenous Palestinian Arabs that intensified during the Mandate period. While Zionist colonization in Palestine began under Ottoman rule during the late nineteenth century, official British recognition and support endowed the Zionist project with significant new advantages.

Thus, at the onset of British rule, official documents attested to an Imperial policy of Jewish colonization, facilitating immigration, land acquisition, settlement, development, and elements of sovereignty. In addition to perceived mutual interests, the British-Zionist relationship was based on a discourse of development and modernization.

Notwithstanding the twists and turns of British policy toward the Zionist project throughout the Mandate, the monumental expansion of Jewish colonization between 1918 and 1948 reflects that at the end of the day - intentionally or not - government policy was beneficial to Zionist colonization and detrimental to the interests of the country's indigenous non-Jewish population.

www7.tau.ac.il/ojs/index.php/til/article/download/254/230

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hebron Girls Orphanage - Israeli Army Steals Sewing Machines

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israelis kicking Palestinians out of their homes

 

[Hollie]

Arabs-Moslems stealing land.

Palestinians Are Building Illegal Settlements to Extend Their Claims to Jerusalem

Just about everything frequently alleged against Israeli settlements in the West Bank can be said, truthfully, about recent Palestinian construction on the outskirts of Jerusalem, writes Bassam Tawil. Such construction is illegal; it is intended to impede the possibility of a two-state solution; and it often takes place on land stolen from private Palestinian owners.

Apparently, settlements are only a “major obstacle to peace” when they are constructed by Jews. In recent years, and continuing to the present, Palestinians, with the aid of Western donors for whom only Jewish construction is anathema, have been working night and day to create irreversible facts on the ground. . . .

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel Bombs Gaza's Only Rehab Hospital: Staff Forced to Evacuate Paralyzed Patients After Shelling

 

[Humanity]

Can any invented religion tolerate any other religion?
The Torah is explicit that most people will not opt in to Torah observance so we mind our own business.

Judaism isn't invented?

 

[Hollie]

Israel Bombs Gaza's Only Rehab Hospital: Staff Forced to Evacuate Paralyzed Patients After Shelling

Israel accepts UN-proposed 'pause' as Hamas rockets fall – the day's events

Obama also said he's "heartbroken by the deaths of innocent civilians … of men, women and children in Gaza … and that's why we've been working toward a ceasefire."

"Israel accepted a ceasefire … unfortunately, Hamas continued to fire rockets at civilians, thereby prolonging the conflict."

He said the US continues to support Egypt's efforts to mediate, and urged restraint: "We stress the continued need to protect civilians in Gaza and Israel."

Obama also said he was "proud that the Iron Dome system has saved many Israeli lives".