Zone1 What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

[hobelim]

yup.

Sin is disobedience to the Law. Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. But as you know Christ appeared to do away with sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. The one who continues to sin has not seen Him and does not know Him.

My children, do not be misled: It is the one who does what is right who is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the work of the devil.

Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: No one who does not do what is right is a child of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:4-10

 

[norwegen]

Nope.

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◄ Romans 3:23 ►

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for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 3:23?

Paul was speaking to converted Jews, whose forebears were the sinners who worshiped idols and graven images (1:21-23). They could not find God's righteousness through the Law or the Prophets, so ate of another's tree.

God manifested His righteousness apart from the Law and the Prophets (3:21) and through Christ, absolving all (Jews) of their sins who would believe in him. They were redeemed (3:24). No longer sinners.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Romans 3:23?

Paul was speaking to converted Jews, whose forebears were the sinners who worshiped idols and graven images (1:21-23). They could not find God's righteousness through the Law or the Prophets, so ate of another's tree.

God manifested His righteousness apart from the Law and the Prophets (3:21) and through Christ, absolving all (Jews) of their sins who would believe in him. They were redeemed (3:24). No longer sinners.

Nope, all means all.

for all

πάντες (pantes)

3956: all, every

 

[norwegen]

Nope, all means all.

for all

πάντες (pantes)

3956: all, every

All Israel who believes. Why do ignore context?

 

[JustAGuy1]

All Israel who believes. Why do ignore context?

You aren't seeing the context, you really want to try and make the case that the book of Romans was written to the Jews? That will be an uphill run.,

 

[norwegen]

You aren't seeing the context, you really want to try and make the case that the book of Romans was written to the Jews? That will be an uphill run.,

It wasn't written to you or me.

 

[Leviticus]

which is all of us lousy sinners...

No it was specifically the Romans. They saw Jesus's following as a threat to Rome and wanted him dead.

 

[BreezeWood]

What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

Well, one thing that comes to mind is this:

Humans do not know the hideousness of Hell that awaits them if they do not repent. Some of us have a glimpse of how hideous it is

See Faustina Diary 741

OMG doesn't begin to say it

You don't even want Nazi Pelousi going to a place like that

no such statement was spoken by jesus, they knew from the very beginning their eventual fate - that was written into the c-bile by the crucifiers to justify their crime of wanton injustice.

 

[Clyde 154]

What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

Well, one thing that comes to mind is this:

Humans do not know the hideousness of Hell that awaits them if they do not repent. Some of us have a glimpse of how hideous it is

See Faustina Diary 741

OMG doesn't begin to say it

You don't even want Nazi Pelousi going to a place like that

Allow The Christ to explain via parable: (Matthew 18:21-35) In Short........if you expect God to forgive you, you must be willing to forgive those who have sinned against you. Luke 23:34 is the passage presented, where the Roman Soldiers were casting lots (choosing among themselves) dividing among them the articles of Jesus' personal possessions. Clearly the majority of those who demanded the crucifixion of Jesus did not comprehend they were casting their lots (votes of agreement) to sentence an innocent Son of Man and Son of the living God to death.

Why did Jesus forgive them of their sins..........Because God sacrificed His only Begotten Son so the world could find forgiveness of their sins. Most importantly.........Jesus was the perfect Sacrificial Lamb of God in the fact that He had no sin, if Jesus refused to forgive even those who were casting lots for Jesus' personal possessions (His very Garments)......The Son of Man, would not have completed the journey required to be the perfect lamb of God......there would have been Sin in Jesus' life if had not forgiven all those who cast their lots against Him. Jesus was "acting" upon the principles He had been teaching even to the point of death. (reference Phil. 2:6)

 

[zaangalewa]

What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

What about "Dear father - forgive them the unbelievable heavy sin to torture and to execute human beings like me - on not any real reason to have to do so - only because they criminally think we are criminals. They are not really evil but only idiots who should not be executed from you. You will forgive them. You are god: Give your love a chance. Give your peace a chance. Perhaps your children will be able to learn." Or he thought just simple when he said so: "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do".

 

[norwegen]

No it was specifically the Romans. They saw Jesus's following as a threat to Rome and wanted him dead.

So, if the Romans knew what they were doing, why would Jesus have said otherwise?

What was the threat to Rome from the disciples?

 

[ding]

You follow that FALSE Church

Actually he doesn't follow that church because he's an apostate. How do you distinguish a false church from a true church?

 

[Clyde 154]

no such statement was spoken by jesus, they knew from the very beginning their eventual fate - that was written into the c-bile by the crucifiers to justify their crime of wanton injustice.

Yet......the words are there for all to see, and no one is yet to prove that Jesus did not make such a statement. What? Because you state something that makes it true or false at your will? The evidence is there.........the Bible is real, its the best selling book ever written. But you claim its false void of ever presenting any type of objective evidence. The Bible is there.........its objectively available for anyone to read. You deal entirely in Subjective Ad Hominem BS. Why? You can't produce Objective, Testable, Reproducible evidences of a factual nature.

Strange is it not......you expect others to simply accept your subjective ad hominem BS as evidence.....but declare the Holy Scriptures can't defend themselves by the things recorded therein. Christianity is not DOGMA....the Bible stands as evidence that remains unbroken as promised by the Christ, "Heaven and earth will pass away but My Words will never pass away." -- Matthew 24:35.

People such as yourself have been attacking the Holy Scriptures ever since Moses recorded the first word in the Pentatuach, after 3500 years, I can obtain the Words of Jesus quite simply void of any attack from those who still defend the world and its god. All that individuals such as yourself produce........is hate, because you apparently live in misery. Why is the Bible under constant attack? "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

Why is "6" afraid of "7"? Because, "7"..........8..........."9"

 

[zaangalewa]

The wages of sin are Death, not everlasting life in Hell.

Death is hell. Or do you like to die? And when will end your death after you suffered it?

The people in former times believed worldwide nearly always only they will live in an underworld (=hell) after their death. That was normal. The Christian message of hope "Christ prepares a home for god's children in heaven" was totally new to them. ... like in the USA today? ...




Als ich einst Prinz war in Arkadien,
Lebt‘ ich in Reichtum, Glanz und Pracht.
Alles ging jedoch zum Teufel,
Indem dass man mich umgebracht.
Das alles würd‘ ich leicht verschmerzen,
Eines jedoch verschmerz ich nie:
Dass sie mir damals nicht begegnet,
Denn mich geliebt hätten auch Sie,
Als ich noch Prinz war in Arkadien.

Als ich einst Prinz war in Arkadien.
Hätt‘ ich Sie zur Prinzess‘ gemacht.
Jetzt bin ich nur mein eig’ner Schatten;
Doch bin ich leider nur ein Schatten,
Indem dass man mich umgebracht.
Der beste Schatten kann nur geben,
Was er als Schatten geben kann
Mein Schattenherz für dich mein Leben.
O nehmen Sie es gnädig an.
Das Herz des Prinzen von Arkadien.

-----

When I was once a prince in Arcadia,
I lived in wealth, splendor and splendor. [replace one "splendor" with "glamour"]
But everything went to hell,
By being killed.
All this I would easily get over,
But there's one thing I'll never get over
That she did not meet me then,
For you would have loved me too,
When I was still prince in Arcadia.

When I was once a prince in Arcadia.
I would have made you a princess.
Now I am only my own shadow;
But alas, I am but a shadow,
By being killed.
The best shadow can only give
What he can give as a shadow
My shadow's heart for thee my life.
O accept it graciously.
The heart of the Prince of Arcadia.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[zaangalewa]

People don't want to give up their pagan ideas. ...

Why should anyone do so? Because you don't know very most of this ideas? But truth is always true - independent from the person who speaks out this truth. So "to listen" is the most important in such a context - and to try to find out what could be true.

 

[zaangalewa]

Yes there is. Jesus said there is.

"..these [who do not obey His commandments, especially vis a vis charity toward others] will go off into eternal punishment but the righteous: to eternal life" (emphasis added, bracketed: my paraphrase)

Mt 25:31

There are other psgs also

Mt 25:31-46

-----
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothed you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
-----


-----

 

[zaangalewa]

notmyfault2020

And what are you able to learn out of this except that too short is too short? That you are a holy sheep and not a devilish goat? Or do you really think there were no goats in paradise - created from god - and will not come to heaven because god hates goats? Ever thought about that Jesus - and the whole bible - often speaks in "Sinnbildern" ... ahem ... in allegories, in ideographs, in motivating pictures which make a big sense? The only thing we really know: God - and no one else - decides who has to go to hell and who will come to heaven. And when you take a look at this very simple rule(s) which Jesus gave us all: They are not specifically only for Christians.

 

[zaangalewa]

It wasn't written to you or me.

And what was written to you and him?

 

[BreezeWood]

Yet......the words are there for all to see, and no one is yet to prove that Jesus did not make such a statement. What? Because you state something that makes it true or false at your will? The evidence is there.........the Bible is real, its the best selling book ever written. But you claim its false void of ever presenting any type of objective evidence. The Bible is there.........its objectively available for anyone to read. You deal entirely in Subjective Ad Hominem BS. Why? You can't produce Objective, Testable, Reproducible evidences of a factual nature.

Strange is it not......you expect others to simply accept your subjective ad hominem BS as evidence.....but declare the Holy Scriptures can't defend themselves by the things recorded therein. Christianity is not DOGMA....the Bible stands as evidence that remains unbroken as promised by the Christ, "Heaven and earth will pass away but My Words will never pass away." -- Matthew 24:35.

People such as yourself have been attacking the Holy Scriptures ever since Moses recorded the first word in the Pentatuach, after 3500 years, I can obtain the Words of Jesus quite simply void of any attack from those who still defend the world and its god. All that individuals such as yourself produce........is hate, because you apparently live in misery. Why is the Bible under constant attack? "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

Why is "6" afraid of "7"? Because, "7"..........8..........."9"

the sin is yours clyde, no one that has an inkling for the events of the 1st century, liberation theology, self determination the cause jesus lived and died for would be so confused as to believe what was written about them by the crucifiers as having any merit whatsoever - the state religion of the roman empire. than to placate their own crimes and misbehavior.

as before - provide the tablets claimed by the desert religions to have been etched in the heavens w/ 10 commandments or remove the errant assertion from their documents and all other forgeries and fallacies strewn throughout their scripts residing on nearly every page of their various publications.

 

[Leviticus]

So, if the Romans knew what they were doing, why would Jesus have said otherwise?

What was the threat to Rome from the disciples?

Jesus had a lot of followers who believed that he was going to begin an uprising against Roman occupation of Israel.

The Romans believed he was doing that as well. In fact that is why the Romans persecuted christians for so long after Jesus Christian because they believed that the Christian religion was a disguised rebellion.

Usually Romans allowed you to worship whatever gods you want it and they just adopted your gods into their religion. Christians were specifically persecuted for their religious beliefs Because they believed it was not a religion at all but a rebellion started by Jesus.