Zone1 What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

[Carl in Michigan]

You are only partially right. but Jesus wants us all to be fully right, so here goes:

Why would Jesus, in His dying breath speak only to those who are murdering Him? He was not. He was speaking to all us sinners. If He were speaking only to the ones killing Him that would tell the whole world that He was focused only on Himself (or people would accuse Him of such.. people accuse Jesus and His people of all kinds of bs)

I was going to write something else but it didn't sound charitable, even though I didn't mean it that way... "Avoid the very appearance of evil" we are told...

Anyhow, you are in the wrong "church" so that is why you get things either wrong or partially wrong... There is only ONE Church and that Church obviously goes back to the time of Christ and the 12.

I gave you a "*thanks" because you are right about everything NOT GREEN.

But understand this:

Your church sprang up AFTER Peter threw SIMON THE SORCERER OUT OF GODS CHURCH

He started ANOTHER. You follow that FALSE Church

 

[Cougarbear]

I don't have time right now to read this and don't appreciate being insulted anyway

But Jesus addressed His message to ALL people, not just those who crucified Him

Look who's talking. You are full of insults. Please. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen or stop throwing flames yourself. Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.
It would be nice if it were true that all people will receive the same reward. But, just not true. There are three levels of Heaven (1Cor. 15) And, there is that place where Perdition will be as well. It's said that the God will forgive those whom God chooses to forgive. But, for us humans, it's required that we forgive all.

 

[notmyfault2020]

I gave you a "*thanks" because you are right about everything NOT GREEN.

But understand this:

Your church sprang up AFTER Peter threw SIMON THE SORCERER OUT OF GODS CHURCH

He started ANOTHER. You follow that FALSE Church

You have been lied to. Now you are spreading your lies around to others.

May God have mercy on your soul at death.

Yet, merciful as God is, He does not violate His own perfect Justice to save people who reject His perfect Justice (reject Him, in other words).... as you seem to be doing.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I interpret this moment even deeper in that Jesus right until the end is ensuring that Christians and Jews alike understand one of the core tenets of their religion: forgiveness. In particular, from those who are ignorant, misguided or the like.

It is repeated constantly in the bible, Old and New. The difference between what forgiveness entails and how it is defined differs, but it is critical to both, Even those who opposed him in his time would be moved by this sentiment as he was hung by the cross.

 

[notmyfault2020]

I interpret this moment even deeper in that Jesus right until the end is ensuring that Christians and Jews alike understand one of the core tenets of their religion: forgiveness. In particular, from those who are ignorant, misguided or the like.

It is repeated constantly in the bible, Old and New. The difference between what forgiveness entails and how it is defined differs, but it is critical to both, Even those who opposed him in his time would be moved by this sentiment as he was hung by the cross.

I am not sure I get this... which means I don't... esp that last sentence or 2

??

 

[shockedcanadian]

I am not sure I get this... which means I don't... esp that last sentence or 2

??

He was being the son of God to the end. As he hung there dying, many who opposed him before would probably be moved. If not in the moment, maybe over time. How can you not be moved when he doesn't curse his sbusers but asked God, his father, to forgive them? .

 

[notmyfault2020]

He was being the son of God to the end. As he hung there dying, many who opposed him before would probably be moved. If not in the moment, maybe over time. How can you not be moved when he doesn't curse his sbusers but asked God, his father, to forgive them? .

are you saying He only said that to the Father vis a vis those who were killing Him?

?

 

[shockedcanadian]

are you saying He only said that to the Father vis a vis those who were killing Him?

?

Obviously. Who else would he be referring to as he lie dying?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Obviously. Who else would he be referring to as he lie dying?

geez... Are you that clueless to your own sins? He was speaking of ALL humans. You do agree that all humans are sinners, right?

Why would he focus on one group's sins and ignore others'?

makes no sense

 

[norwegen]

The people who crucified him.

The Romans, yes. They acted blindly at the behest of the Jews.

 

[Ace Nova]

I gave you a "*thanks" because you are right about everything NOT GREEN.

But understand this:

Your church sprang up AFTER Peter threw SIMON THE SORCERER OUT OF GODS CHURCH

He started ANOTHER. You follow that FALSE Church

Not sure how you came to this conclusion.

The confrontation between Peter and Simon Magus (The sorcerer) is well known within the Catholic Church. There are paintings about it. There was even a church built at the location where Peter prayed that Simon would end his "sorcery". And that's the last we hear of Simon. If he started another church somewhere, it wasn't in Rome and it wasn't Catholic.

Simon Magus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Purely based on logic: Would Catholics create paintings of Peter confronting (and essentially beating) Simon Magus if Simon Magus founded their church?

Would the Catholic Church build a church commemorating Peter's victory over Simon Magus if Simon Magus was the founder of the Catholic Church?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Not sure how you came to this conclusion.

The confrontation between Peter and Simon Magus (The sorcerer) is well known within the Catholic Church. There are paintings about it. There was even a church built at the location where Peter prayed that Simon would end his "sorcery". And that's the last we hear of Simon. If he started another church somewhere, it wasn't in Rome and it wasn't Catholic.

Simon Magus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Purely based on logic: Would Catholics create paintings of Peter confronting (and essentially beating) Simon Magus if Simon Magus founded their church?

Would the Catholic Church build a church commemorating Peter's victory over Simon Magus if Simon Magus was the founder of the Catholic Church?

good points.

However, and I keep repeating this: When one says the Catholic Church one needs to be clear what one is talking about. The Vatican and "churches" connected to it are no longer representative of Catholicism. Unbelievers took over the Vatican in 1958 and the true Catholic Church (which is Sedevacantist) went underground.

 

[Likkmee]

He was specifically talking about the soldiers who were performing their duties from their leaders. He may have known that if they had the opportunity to know who he was and the Gospel he brought to the earth, they would not be killing him or others. That means that all those who have died without the knowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord and didn't know the fullness of the Gospel will have that opportunity in the hereafter. In first Peter chapter 3, Jesus goes to those who were thought to be evil because they had no opportunity to know God because of the wickedness around them and he preaches to them in spirit prison.

Yup. The original meatheads, blindly following orders without critical thought. YES SIR !
"aint no Vietnamese dude ever called me nigha,aint neva dun nuttin ta me" Ali

 

[norwegen]

You are only partially right. but Jesus wants us all to be fully right, so here goes:

Why would Jesus, in His dying breath speak only to those who are murdering Him? He was not. He was speaking to all us sinners. If He were speaking only to the ones killing Him that would tell the whole world that He was focused only on Himself (or people would accuse Him of such.. people accuse Jesus and His people of all kinds of bs)

Jesus was speaking to God, not any man. And he was speaking of the Romans.

The Romans led him to Golgotha. The Romans cast lots for his garments. That's the context. The Romans.

Jesus asked God to forgive them because they were merely the executioners; they were just following orders. The Jews were the judge and jury; they knew full well what they were doing.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yup. The original meatheads, blindly following orders without critical thought. YES SIR !
"aint no Vietnamese dude ever called me nigha,aint neva dun nuttin ta me" Ali

Have no idea about your second statement. Unless it is the usual liberal narrative of labeling everything racist. Which is the stupidest accusation of all time.

 

[Likkmee]

Have no idea about your second statement. Unless it is the usual liberal narrative of labeling everything racist. Which is the stupidest accusation of all time.

Not at all. I said the ones with the vinegar, hammer and spear on a stick were simply MEATHEADS
Just like 95% of the assholes who join the military to deFund freeDumb and take showers at the same time, eat and the same time, fart at the same time and do anything they're told...because. YES SIR !

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[JustAGuy1]

geez... Are you that clueless to your own sins? He was speaking of ALL humans. You do agree that all humans are sinners, right?

Why would he focus on one group's sins and ignore others'?

makes no sense

Seriously man, do better. Your exegesis is aberrant at best, heretical at worst.

 

[norwegen]

geez... Are you that clueless to your own sins? He was speaking of ALL humans. You do agree that all humans are sinners, right?

Why would he focus on one group's sins and ignore others'?

makes no sense

Are all humans sinners? Is that in the Bible?

 

[hobelim]

Are all humans sinners? Is that in the Bible?

No. Not everyone sins.


Sin is disobedience to the Law. Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. But as you know Christ appeared to do away with sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him and does not know Him.

My children, do not be misled: The one who does what is right is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: No one who does not do what is right is a child of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:4-10

 

[JustAGuy1]

No. Not everyone sins.


Sin is disobedience to the Law. Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. But as you know Christ appeared to do away with sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

My children, do not be misled: The one who does what is right is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not do what is right is of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:4-10

Nope.

◄ Romans 3:23 ►

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,