What did our founders really mean when they said “general welfare”?

[danielpalos]

... What did our founders really mean when they said “general welfare”? ...

General welfare, I guess. To have a house, food, to have some money, to be educated, to be able to visit a library and a theatre or a public bath and to make a conversation with others about important or beautiful and nice things, to be able to travel and to visit friends ... and so on and so on ... a doctor for everyone is also important ...

Wow....you are a major fan of fairytales and fiction aren’t you?
Trust me, NOBODY sane could twist “promote the general welfare” into free homes and Cadillacs for all.

Only right wingers fishing for red herrings do that.

 

[MadChemist]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Our welfare clause is general because it must be comprehensive enough to provide a general solution for any contingency. FDR proved this is the Case in our federal republic; thank Goodness FDR was a left winger.

Just about NOBODY thinks of it that way.

Nobody you know on the right wing? The left understand the concept. Our welfare clause general and must be able to come up with solutions to any given contingency, otherwise it would take a new amendment to our Constitution, even for an air force.

The left wing cares nothing for the Constition. No, it would not take an amendment for an Air Force.

That's simply ignorant on your part.

 

[MadChemist]

If the general welfare meant what the left claims it means then there would have been no need to follow it with specific things Congress could do since the statement general welfare would have covered everything.

Such an interpretation gives the federal government unlimited power, and renders meaningless the reserves of power to states.

This is why we cannot let people like Dan run our nation. He wants to give too much power to government and make us all slaves.

He is a commie.

we have a general government and a general welfare clause; coincidence or conspiracy?

We have a constitution, a federal government and a 10th amendment that says what Madison said it meant. The powers of the federal government are few and limited.....Federalist 45......end of discussoin.

Yes, our welfare clause is General not common.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Don't read much do you ?

James Madison Refutes Expansive Reading of the General Welfare Clause | Tenth Amendment Center

His speech is a stinging refutation to all those who claim the clause empowers the federal government to spend money for anything and everything

tenthamendmentcenter.com

 

[danielpalos]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Our welfare clause is general because it must be comprehensive enough to provide a general solution for any contingency. FDR proved this is the Case in our federal republic; thank Goodness FDR was a left winger.

Just about NOBODY thinks of it that way.

Nobody you know on the right wing? The left understand the concept. Our welfare clause general and must be able to come up with solutions to any given contingency, otherwise it would take a new amendment to our Constitution, even for an air force.

The left wing cares nothing for the Constition. No, it would not take an amendment for an Air Force.

That's simply ignorant on your part.

It is even more ignorant on Your part since it is not expressed only implied. Our welfare clause is General not Common or LImited. That is the difference. Anything you can commonly do for the common defense can be done generally for the general welfare.

 

[sparky]

EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

their own.....

~S~

 

[MadChemist]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Our welfare clause is general because it must be comprehensive enough to provide a general solution for any contingency. FDR proved this is the Case in our federal republic; thank Goodness FDR was a left winger.

Just about NOBODY thinks of it that way.

Nobody you know on the right wing? The left understand the concept. Our welfare clause general and must be able to come up with solutions to any given contingency, otherwise it would take a new amendment to our Constitution, even for an air force.

The left wing cares nothing for the Constition. No, it would not take an amendment for an Air Force.

That's simply ignorant on your part.

It is even more ignorant on Your part since it is not expressed only implied. Our welfare clause is General not Common or LImited. That is the difference. Anything you can commonly do for the common defense can be done generally for the general welfare.

Wrong again. It's been explained to you 100 times and you still seem bent on pushing a foolish point of view. If you took the time to read the guy who wrote it, you'd see it is limited. Very very limited.

General Welfare says they can do what they need to in order to achieve the objectives they were created for.

That includes national defense. So, there goes your silly air force amendment claim.

 

[danielpalos]

If the general welfare meant what the left claims it means then there would have been no need to follow it with specific things Congress could do since the statement general welfare would have covered everything.

Such an interpretation gives the federal government unlimited power, and renders meaningless the reserves of power to states.

This is why we cannot let people like Dan run our nation. He wants to give too much power to government and make us all slaves.

He is a commie.

we have a general government and a general welfare clause; coincidence or conspiracy?

We have a constitution, a federal government and a 10th amendment that says what Madison said it meant. The powers of the federal government are few and limited.....Federalist 45......end of discussoin.

Yes, our welfare clause is General not common.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Don't read much do you ?

James Madison Refutes Expansive Reading of the General Welfare Clause | Tenth Amendment Center

His speech is a stinging refutation to all those who claim the clause empowers the federal government to spend money for anything and everything

tenthamendmentcenter.com

I have read more than you on this topic.

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Our welfare clause is more general than our defense clause. It really is that, expressly simple.

 

[danielpalos]

EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

their own.....

~S~

Unlike the right wing where only the Richest get richer?

 

[MadChemist]

If the general welfare meant what the left claims it means then there would have been no need to follow it with specific things Congress could do since the statement general welfare would have covered everything.

Such an interpretation gives the federal government unlimited power, and renders meaningless the reserves of power to states.

This is why we cannot let people like Dan run our nation. He wants to give too much power to government and make us all slaves.

He is a commie.

we have a general government and a general welfare clause; coincidence or conspiracy?

We have a constitution, a federal government and a 10th amendment that says what Madison said it meant. The powers of the federal government are few and limited.....Federalist 45......end of discussoin.

Yes, our welfare clause is General not common.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Don't read much do you ?

James Madison Refutes Expansive Reading of the General Welfare Clause | Tenth Amendment Center

His speech is a stinging refutation to all those who claim the clause empowers the federal government to spend money for anything and everything

tenthamendmentcenter.com

I have read more than you on this topic.

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Our welfare clause is more general than our defense clause. It really is that, expressly simple.

You don't read to well then.

 

[danielpalos]

If the general welfare meant what the left claims it means then there would have been no need to follow it with specific things Congress could do since the statement general welfare would have covered everything.

Such an interpretation gives the federal government unlimited power, and renders meaningless the reserves of power to states.

This is why we cannot let people like Dan run our nation. He wants to give too much power to government and make us all slaves.

He is a commie.

we have a general government and a general welfare clause; coincidence or conspiracy?

We have a constitution, a federal government and a 10th amendment that says what Madison said it meant. The powers of the federal government are few and limited.....Federalist 45......end of discussoin.

Yes, our welfare clause is General not common.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Don't read much do you ?

James Madison Refutes Expansive Reading of the General Welfare Clause | Tenth Amendment Center

His speech is a stinging refutation to all those who claim the clause empowers the federal government to spend money for anything and everything

tenthamendmentcenter.com

I have read more than you on this topic.

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Our welfare clause is more general than our defense clause. It really is that, expressly simple.

You don't read to well then.

You need a valid argument not merely the fallacy of an ad hominem. Don't argue much?

 

[MadChemist]

If the general welfare meant what the left claims it means then there would have been no need to follow it with specific things Congress could do since the statement general welfare would have covered everything.

Such an interpretation gives the federal government unlimited power, and renders meaningless the reserves of power to states.

This is why we cannot let people like Dan run our nation. He wants to give too much power to government and make us all slaves.

He is a commie.

we have a general government and a general welfare clause; coincidence or conspiracy?

We have a constitution, a federal government and a 10th amendment that says what Madison said it meant. The powers of the federal government are few and limited.....Federalist 45......end of discussoin.

Yes, our welfare clause is General not common.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Don't read much do you ?

James Madison Refutes Expansive Reading of the General Welfare Clause | Tenth Amendment Center

His speech is a stinging refutation to all those who claim the clause empowers the federal government to spend money for anything and everything

tenthamendmentcenter.com

I have read more than you on this topic.

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Our welfare clause is more general than our defense clause. It really is that, expressly simple.

You don't read to well then.

You need a valid argument not merely the fallacy of an ad hominem. Don't argue much?

I don't need to argue on this at all.

I have Madison...the Father of the constitution....and author of Federalist 45.

You have a wish.

 

[MadChemist]

From Federalist 45:

yet, as the States will retain, under the proposed Constitution, a very extensive portion of active sovereignty,

 

[MadChemist]

Madison in Federalist 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

************************

What part of that first sentence don't people get ?

 

[danielpalos]

If the general welfare meant what the left claims it means then there would have been no need to follow it with specific things Congress could do since the statement general welfare would have covered everything.

Such an interpretation gives the federal government unlimited power, and renders meaningless the reserves of power to states.

This is why we cannot let people like Dan run our nation. He wants to give too much power to government and make us all slaves.

He is a commie.

we have a general government and a general welfare clause; coincidence or conspiracy?

We have a constitution, a federal government and a 10th amendment that says what Madison said it meant. The powers of the federal government are few and limited.....Federalist 45......end of discussoin.

Yes, our welfare clause is General not common.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Don't read much do you ?

James Madison Refutes Expansive Reading of the General Welfare Clause | Tenth Amendment Center

His speech is a stinging refutation to all those who claim the clause empowers the federal government to spend money for anything and everything

tenthamendmentcenter.com

I have read more than you on this topic.

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Our welfare clause is more general than our defense clause. It really is that, expressly simple.

You don't read to well then.

You need a valid argument not merely the fallacy of an ad hominem. Don't argue much?

I don't need to argue on this at all.

I have Madison...the Father of the constitution....and author of Federalist 45.

You have a wish.

Madison supports my point of view not yours. He understood how our federal form of Government is supposed to work.

 

[danielpalos]

From Federalist 45:

yet, as the States will retain, under the proposed Constitution, a very extensive portion of active sovereignty,

We know that already. No one is claiming otherwise. States actually have the traditional police power.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

 

[danielpalos]

Madison in Federalist 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

************************

What part of that first sentence don't people get ?

We know that already.

The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

 

[MadChemist]

Madison in Federalist 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

************************

What part of that first sentence don't people get ?

We know that already.

The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

You clearly don't comprehend.

But, I've noticed you are in denial whenever J. Madison is brought to your attention.

You just ignore it and continue with your same silly claims.

 

[danielpalos]

Madison in Federalist 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

************************

What part of that first sentence don't people get ?

We know that already.

The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

You clearly don't comprehend.

But, I've noticed you are in denial whenever J. Madison is brought to your attention.

You just ignore it and continue with your same silly claims.

The general government of the Union is limited, remember.

 

[dblack]

Madison in Federalist 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

************************

What part of that first sentence don't people get ?

The part where they really, really want free shit.

 

[MadChemist]

Madison in Federalist 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

************************

What part of that first sentence don't people get ?

We know that already.

The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

You clearly don't comprehend.

But, I've noticed you are in denial whenever J. Madison is brought to your attention.

You just ignore it and continue with your same silly claims.

The general government of the Union is limited, remember.

You and your circular logic.

There is no clause in the Constitution that allows the government to take care of general welfare (as in whatever they see needs addressing.

We are done.