Zone1 Were there human beings before Adam and Eve?

[toobfreak]

It sure isnt. Thats why the last few thousand years have been devoted to Christians trying to interpret it.
Thats why you are at odds with other Christians in this thread.
Because the Bible is vague and nonsensical and self contradictory.

I have to admit FFI, that when you're right, in this single case, you are right. I was baptized a christian, raised a christian, studied the Bible, but always had trouble with how God would create the universe in 6 of Earth's days and nights long before there even was an Earth? Then take the 7th day off, the Sabbath, a calendar week when only Earth has 7 days and the week is an artificial construct of man, only has them now, and long ago, our days and weeks were entirely different!

Or how groups like the Hutterites based their entire lives on a single, vague verse of the Bible subject to interpretation. It was this lack of detail and specificity that drove me to look at other religions, including ones much older in the East which quite specifically detail the layers of the universe, the creation of everything, even detail the calculation of time from the atom.

The Bible for all its good is like 1st Grade on training wheels compared to some other religions. Too much in the Bible is built upon fear and compliance--- and I'm a question-asker--- not a doubter mind you, but I like details and explanation. I've found the biggest difference is that most of these other religions are not out there on social media much less at my front door pounding on it telling me I need to join to save my soul and that if I don't accept their way as the only way, that I'm forever lost.

 

[Quantrill]

What about Jesus, a real person, using a metaphor or parable. What's the contradiction there?

In the case of Eve and the serpent the language doesn't support the interpretation. The interpreters sometimes used words that support long-held beliefs regardless of their accuracy. Eve "put upon" (Hebrew: nagged) Adam into eating the fruit. The interpreters chose "gave" instead. Why is a mystery.

The serpent was a real being, but not a physical serpentine figure standing in the presence of God and Eve, but a powerful spirit being influencing Eve's thoughts. God told Eve that her curse would be painful childbirth, which he repeated. That pregnant women have eaten the soil of the ground for millennia reveals that the curse was meant for them, not for a spirit being.

Why is Jesus a real person? Why isn't He a 'literary construct'? If Jesus spoke using a parable, you know it is a parable. No contradiction when a metaphor or parable is used. The problem in (Gen. 3:1), is no metaphor or parable is indicated. You need it to be a metaphor because you don't believe it.

In the case of Eve, you wrongfully directed God's statement and curse upon the Serpent, to Eve, as I already pointed out. Thus, you are out to lunch right off the bat.

The serpent was a real serpent whom Satan used. And because he was used by Satan, the serpent was cursed. And, the serpent is identified with other beasts God had made. (Gen. 3:1)

Your women eating dirt plays no role in the interpretation. Just shows the women you go with.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

What was your source for the word "belly"? Mine is the Hebrew dictionary.

Really. What was the word and definition?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I didn't say I haven't sinned. I said I always do exactly as my God commands. If a person lacks understanding and wisdom and takes the words of the Law literally I'm an openly unrepentant sinner and pretty damn good at it.

Nice try at deflection, but not good enough you pusillanimous belly crawling twit......

How do you resolve what is written in 1 John 3:4-10 with your bullshit claim to be a sinner "in Christ"? Liar.

To commit sin is to break Gods Law: Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. Christ appeared, as you know, to do away with sins, and there is no sin in him. No man who dwells in him is a sinner; the sinner has not seen him and does not know him.

My children, do not be misled: it is the man who does what is right who is righteous, as God is righteous; the man who sins is a child of the devil, for the devil has been a sinner from the first; and the Son of God appeared for the very purpose of undoing the devils work.

A child of God does not commit sin, because the divine seed remains in him; he cannot be a sinner because he is God's child. That is the distinction between the children of God and the children of the devil: no one who does not do what is right is God's child, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:4-10

Yes you did say it. I asked in post #(214), 'are you a sinner'. You say in post #(245), 'Right I am not a sinner'. Thus (1 John 1:10) calls you a liar. And now you have lied again in saying you didn't say that.

Concerning (1 John 3:4-10) see (1 John 1:7) "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." The believer will sin, and can still walk in the light, and confesses his sin to God and Christ's blood cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:9)

(1 John 3:8-10) contrasts the sin of we who are of God, and the sin of those who are of the devil. The children of the devil sin and do not seek forgiveness and do not confess their sins to God. The children of God do seek forgiveness for their sins and confess their sins before God. Thus God sees the believer without sin.

But, by your own words, you do not sin. Thus you are a liar and a child of the devil. So says (John 3:4-10) and (John 18-10)

Quantrill

 

[hobelim]

But, by your own words, you do not sin.

Thats right. Even if I sinned in the past, I no longer sin. I always do exactly as God commands. Its easy.

You will never see me one my knees seeking spiritual life from a lifeless piece of bread made by human hands, (I would rather be drawn and quartered) I am not a idolator or murderer like you are in the same way Jesus meant when he said, "Satan was a murderer from the beginning.". I never lie in the name of God and I do not desecrate the teaching of Jesus. I live a fulfilled kosher life which has nothing whatever to do with dicking around about what to eat. Like scripture says, "The man has become like one of us." And this man will not screw the pooch.

Now back to what you are avoiding.

You openly confessed being a sinner, "in Christ." I showed you a biblical verse that proves that you are the liar.

Yes, I am a sinner. But, I am 'in Christ'.

To commit sin is to break Gods Law: Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. Christ appeared, as you know, to do away with sins, and there is no sin in him. No man who dwells in him is a sinner; the sinner has not seen him and does not know him.

My children, do not be misled: it is the man who does what is right who is righteous, as God is righteous; the man who sins is a child of the devil, for the devil has been a sinner from the first; and the Son of God appeared for the very purpose of undoing the devils work.

A child of God does not commit sin, because the divine seed remains in him; he cannot be a sinner because he is God's child. That is the distinction between the children of God and the children of the devil: no one who does not do what is right is God's child, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:4-10


And here I really thought that you believed what's written in the Bible. I guess you lied. What a surprise!


The voice of the Lord makes the wilderness writhe in travail; the Lord makes the wilderness writhe.

 

[Quantrill]

Why do you have to "stick" with any of them? Why must you pick or choose? Why can't you just find it in your heart to embrace all religions, all systems of religious piety as a good thing? Why are you so afraid of even looking in on the details of another religion, especially one you know nothing about that was already older than Christianity is today back when Jesus lived? Why do you think that knowledge of another religion means an abdication of Christianity? Why is it that of all the world's religions, only two of them are so pushy and competetive, each claiming to be the only "right" and "true" religion: Islam and Christianity.

Because Christ is the only Truth concerning God. All other religions are a lie. You act like all religions are seeking god. And of course that is what they may say. But the truth is that all religions outside of Christianity today, are made up of people in the past who have rejected the true God. And thus they formed another religion.

Christian missionaries often have the wrong idea of the mission field. It doesn't take away from their efforts in bringing the gospel of Christ, but still they have the wrong idea. They see themselves going to a people in the darkest parts of the earth who have never known God. But that is not true. They are going to a people who knew God, knew the truth, and turned away from God.

Being older than Christianity proves nothing about the truth. And other religions do not speak the truth about God and Christ and the Bible.

Again, if you like any other religion, fine. Have at it. But don't try and use the Bible to support your other religion as if God accepts your other religion. He does not. There is only One God. And there is only One Way to God. Jesus Christ.

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

That is not what the Bible says, and I believe the Bible.

You just give your opinion. My faith is built upon the Bible, the Word of God. Not your words.

Quantrill

Can you read Hebrew or Aramaic. You have no idea that the bible means. Original sin is not there try and find those words. Where is the fall of man. Show me the words.

 

[Quantrill]

Thats right. Even if I sinned in the past, I no longer sin. I always do exactly as God commands. Its easy.

You will never see me one my knees seeking spiritual life from a lifeless piece of bread made by human hands, (I would rather be drawn and quartered) I am not a idolator or murderer like you are in the same way Jesus meant when he said, "Satan was a murderer from the beginning.". I never lie in the name of God and I do not desecrate the teaching of Jesus. I live a fulfilled kosher life which has nothing whatever to do with dicking around about what to eat. Like scripture says, "The man has become like one of us." And this man will not screw the pooch.

Now back to what you are avoiding.

You openly confessed being a sinner, "in Christ." I showed you a biblical verse that proves that you are a liar.



To commit sin is to break Gods Law: Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. Christ appeared, as you know, to do away with sins, and there is no sin in him. No man who dwells in him is a sinner; the sinner has not seen him and does not know him.

My children, do not be misled: it is the man who does what is right who is righteous, as God is righteous; the man who sins is a child of the devil, for the devil has been a sinner from the first; and the Son of God appeared for the very purpose of undoing the devils work.

A child of God does not commit sin, because the divine seed remains in him; he cannot be a sinner because he is God's child. That is the distinction between the children of God and the children of the devil: no one who does not do what is right is God's child, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:4-10


And here I really though you believed what's written in the Bible. I guess you lied. What a surprise!


The voice of the Lord makes the wilderness writhe in travail; the Lord makes the wilderness writhe.

The past being this morning when you lied and said, post #(245) you were not a sinner. Then in post #(297) you said you never said that.

I didn't avoid anything. Go back and reread post #(304).

Quantrill

 

[toobfreak]

Because Christ is the only Truth concerning God.

BULLSHIT.

All other religions are a lie.

PROVE IT.

You act like all religions are seeking god. And of course that is what they may say. But the truth is that all religions outside of Christianity today, are made up of people in the past who have rejected the true God. And thus they formed another religion.

That is stupid beyond idiocy.

as if God accepts your other religion. He does not.

Where in the Bible does it ever mention Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism being false? It never does because the writers of the Bible didn't know the first thing about them, probably never even heard of them.

There is only One God. And there is only One Way to God. Jesus Christ.

Bullshit. You are a lying idiot who knows not the first thing about the Bible, religion or what God wants. Leave it to yet another self-made Bible-thumping holly roller to once again declare it his mission to tell us what God wants.

What the Bible does say is that if you want the kind of salvation offered via Christianity, then the one true path is through Christianity's sole representative--- Jesus Christ, who set up that pathway.

What God wants? God wants you to love and adore him. What really matters is what is in your heart, not which church you go to.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

How does differing opinions cast doubt on the Bible? Any doubt should be directed at those opinions.

It shows the Bible is vague and self contradictory. Doubt? Ha, you all seem VERY confident in your differing interpretations. But no two differing ones can both be true.

So you see the problem.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I have to admit FFI, that when you're right, in this single case, you are right. I was baptized a christian, raised a christian, studied the Bible, but always had trouble with how God would create the universe in 6 of Earth's days and nights long before there even was an Earth? Then take the 7th day off, the Sabbath, a calendar week when only Earth has 7 days and the week is an artificial construct of man, only has them now, and long ago, our days and weeks were entirely different!

Or how groups like the Hutterites based their entire lives on a single, vague verse of the Bible subject to interpretation. It was this lack of detail and specificity that drove me to look at other religions, including ones much older in the East which quite specifically detail the layers of the universe, the creation of everything, even detail the calculation of time from the atom.

The Bible for all its good is like 1st Grade on training wheels compared to some other religions. Too much in the Bible is built upon fear and compliance--- and I'm a question-asker--- not a doubter mind you, but I like details and explanation. I've found the biggest difference is that most of these other religions are not out there on social media much less at my front door pounding on it telling me I need to join to save my soul and that if I don't accept their way as the only way, that I'm forever lost.

The contradictions , the obvious nonsense, and the just plain evil stuff in the Bible pretty much became plain to me at about age 12.

 

[Quantrill]

Can you read Hebrew or Aramaic. You have no idea that the bible means. Original sin is not there try and find those words. Where is the fall of man. Show me the words.

(Gen. 2:17) (Gen. 3:1-24) (Rom. 5:12-14)

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

BULLSHIT.


PROVE IT.


That is stupid beyond idiocy.


Where in the Bible does it ever mention Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism being false? It never does because the writers of the Bible didn't know the first thing about them, probably never even heard of them.


Bullshit. You are a lying idiot who knows not the first thing about the Bible, religion or what God wants. Leave it to yet another self-made Bible-thumping holly roller to once again declare it his mission to tell us what God wants.

What the Bible does say is that if you want the kind of salvation offered via Christianity, then the one true path is through Christianity's sole representative--- Jesus Christ, who set up that pathway.

What God wants? God wants you to love and adore him. What really matters is what is in your heart, not which church you go to.

The Bible doesn't have to mention all other religions. The Bible is God's Word and gives the truth about God and salvation.

There is no salvation for anyone outside of Jesus Christ. None.

What matters to God is what you do with His Son, Jesus Christ. You can be all lovey dovey you want, but when you reject Christ, you reject God.

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

(Gen. 2:17) (Gen. 3:1-24) (Rom. 5:12-14)

Quantrill

2 17. Thou shall not eat ( the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil) Before Adam ate the fruit he has no isea what sin was. You cant commit a sin if you cant know what a sin is. "You will surely die" Did Adam die no
The command is Gods test of Adams free will. Disobedience. Further Gods plan is fir Adam t eat the fruit all along. You cant sin when you obey God.
Rabbis who study this define as Gods teaching of morals leading to the trial fir mans freedom

 

[toobfreak]

The Bible doesn't have to mention all other religions.

Doers it mention ANY other religion?

The Bible is God's Word and gives the truth about God and salvation.

Why says, the Bible? What makes the Bible any more right or accurate than any other book on God?

There is no salvation for anyone outside of Jesus Christ. None.

At least none through Jesus Christ. Gee, now there is a keen recruitment tool--- a vengeful God!

What matters to God is what you do with His Son, Jesus Christ.

What matters to God is how you carry God in your heart, not how many Bibles you buy, how many you preach to, or which brick building you worship in. Mankind was around and practicing religion at least 60,000 years before Christ came along and following organized religion at least 3,000 years before Christ was born.

 

[hobelim]

I didn't avoid anything.

You seem to be confounded. You claim to believe in the Bible so do you believe what is written in 1John 3:4-10?

You claim to be "a sinner in Christ" yet scripture clearly says that "No man who dwells in him is a sinner."

What should I believe? The Bible or you?

you said,

Yes, I am a sinner. But, I am 'in Christ'.

To which I responded with a letter from John, the apostle closest to Jesus and the only one who lived to old age;


"To commit sin is to break Gods Law: Sin, in fact, is lawlessness. Christ appeared, as you know, to do away with sins, and there is no sin in him. No man who dwells in him is a sinner; the sinner has not seen him and does not know him.

My children, do not be misled: it is the man who does what is right who is righteous, as God is righteous; the man who sins is a child of the devil, for the devil has been a sinner from the first; and the Son of God appeared for the very purpose of undoing the devils work.

A child of God does not commit sin, because the divine seed remains in him; he cannot be a sinner because he is God's child. That is the distinction between the children of God and the children of the devil: no one who does not do what is right is God's child, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:4-10


How do you resolve the contradiction between what is written and what you claimed to be, "a sinner "in Christ"?

Take your time.....

 

[the watcher]

There were human being before Adam and Eve. Their creation story is told in Genesis 1.

Adam and Eve were created in Genesis 2. By the separate description of Adam being created and then later Eve, the story shows something special about Adam and Eve different from the original humans.

Maybe they were the first humans with souls. Maybe they were pro-Jews in some way.

So when Cain was banished, he was banished to live with people outside of his specially created family.

That's how I read it. I'm no theologean or Biblical scholar.

You can't handle the truth

 

[hobelim]

. You can be all lovey dovey you want, but when you reject Christ, you reject God.

To reject your ridiculous irrational and reprehensible beliefs about Jesus, one part of a trinity that raped a virgin to become a sacrificial Jewish man, a perfect human sacrifice to himself, derp, so believers who worship and eat a matzo on their knees don't have to pay the penalty, the death, a curse, for idolatry is obedience to my God.

 

[Quantrill]

2 17. Thou shall not eat ( the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil) Before Adam ate the fruit he has no isea what sin was. You cant commit a sin if you cant know what a sin is. "You will surely die" Did Adam die no
The command is Gods test of Adams free will. Disobedience. Further Gods plan is fir Adam t eat the fruit all along. You cant sin when you obey God.
Rabbis who study this define as Gods teaching of morals leading to the trial fir mans freedom

It didn't matter if Adam knew what sin was. All that mattered is that he knew he was commanded by God to not eat of the fruit of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Yes, Adam died the moment he ate the fruit, just as Eve did. His physical death began immediately working in him and his spirit was at that moment separated from God.

Well, your Rabbis are wrong. And why would you trust them anyway when they have rejected God the whole time?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Doers it mention ANY other religion?


Why says, the Bible? What makes the Bible any more right or accurate than any other book on God?


At least none through Jesus Christ. Gee, now there is a keen recruitment tool--- a vengeful God!


What matters to God is how you carry God in your heart, not how many Bibles you buy, how many you preach to, or which brick building you worship in. Mankind was around and practicing religion at least 60,000 years before Christ came along and following organized religion at least 3,000 years before Christ was born.

Yes, as false religions.

Because there is no other book Authored by God.

Oh yes, God is vengeful.

If that is what you want to believe, go ahead. The Bible says otherwise. Believe what you want.

Quantrill