Well That Didn't Last Long

[Seymour Flops]

Iran should negotiate directly with Israel

Interesting idea.

What do you see as the benefit of that?

 

[task0778]

Iran should negotiate directly with Israel

How do you negotiate with somebody that wants you dead? Iran's goal as far as Israel is concerned is annihilation and they will stop at nothing to accomplish that end. Iran does not want a peaceful co-existence; you cannot negotiate in good faith with somebody like that.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Wouldn't be a first for Trump. He pulled the same thing concerning Afghanistan in the deal he made with the Taliban.

From what I read of the MOU:

1. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America, and their allies in the current war, by signing this MoU, declare the immediate and permanent termination of military operations on all fronts, including in Lebanon, and undertake from now on not to initiate any war or any military operation against each other, and to refrain from the threat or use of force against each other, and ensuring the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Lebanon. The final Deal will confirm the permanent termination of the war on all fronts, including in Lebanon, and other provisions of this paragraph.

How is that throwing Israel under the bus?

Israel is not in any way required to be allies of the United States as they have been for decades in a purely voluntary relationship. If Israel choses not to be our allies by not signing the MOU, then that is just one more shift in middle eastern alliances.

If anything, if they do not sign and comply, Israel would be face-planting in front of the moving bus, not being thrown under it.

 

[kyzr]

Interesting idea.

What do you see as the benefit of that?

I know, I know, I know...

Then Israel could kill the Iranian negotiators, like they did before.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How do you negotiate with somebody that wants you dead? Iran's goal as far as Israel is concerned is annihilation and they will stop at nothing to accomplish that end. Iran does not want a peaceful co-existence; you cannot negotiate in good faith with somebody like that.

Agreed. It’s pointless for Iran to negotiate with either Trump or his CinC Bibi

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Interesting idea.

What do you see as the benefit of that?

Cut out the middleman DJT who doesn't have the authority to make any deal without Bibi

 

[Seymour Flops]

I know, I know, I know...

Then Israel could kill the Iranian negotiators, like they did before.

You mean this?

An Israeli airstrike in Gaza City killed Azzam al-Hayya, the son of Hamas's chief negotiator in indirect talks with Israel, Khalil al-Hayya. The strike, which hit a residential area in late Wednesday, wounded him fatally, marking the fourth of Khalil al-Hayya's sons to be killed in Israeli attacks. [1, 2]

How are "indirect talks" negotiations? How is the son of Hamas's chief negotiator "the Iranian negotiators?"

Did the Israelis even know his name? If so, did he tell the Israelis where he was at all times, so that they wouldnt' "kill the negotiators" while bombing their hideouts?

Sounds like there was a successful strike by Israel and Hamas decided to promote one of the bodies to "son of negotiator."

 

[my2¢]

How is that throwing Israel under the bus?

Israel is not in any way required to be allies of the United States as they have been for decades in a purely voluntary relationship. If Israel choses not to be our allies by not signing the MOU, then that is just one more shift in middle eastern alliances.

If anything, if they do not sign and comply, Israel would be face-planting in front of the moving bus, not being thrown under it.

Israel is not required to be an ally, but why wouldn't they as I don't see much value for the U.S. in the relationship? As I see it Lebanon is a totally separate issue that is strictly Israel's concern, not ours.

It's stupid to include within the conditions the actions of a non-party to the agreement.
Trump pull the same under his agreement with the Taliban in which Afghanistan was required to release thousands of Taliban prisoners against their wishes. Unfortunately for Afghanistan, their political power in the U.S. couldn't afford them to just say no to the prisoner release.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Israel is not required to be an ally, but why wouldn't they as I don't see much value for the U.S. in the relationship?

Agreed.

As I see it Lebanon is a totally separate issue that is strictly Israel's concern, not ours.

Any ongoing conflict in the Middle-east affects the United States.

It's stupid to include within the conditions the actions of a non-party to the agreement.

Not really. Not if you have a backup plan for when that country decides not to play along.

I think Israel will, but worst case scenario they don't, there are a number of options.

Trump pull the same under his agreement with the Taliban in which Afghanistan was required to release thousands of Taliban prisoners against their wishes. Unfortunately for Afghanistan, their political power in the U.S. couldn't afford them to just say no to the prisoner release.

I guess that's why Trump, though his goal was to end that occupation, never decided to just surrender and pull out prematurely, paving the way for an immediate Taliban takeover.

 

[task0778]

Agreed. It’s pointless for Iran to negotiate with either Trump or his CinC Bibi

First, Bibi is not Trump's CinC, that's BS. Trump doesn't take orders from anybody and anyone who thinks otherwise is being ridiculous. I highly doubt he cares about Israel, this is all about his superego being the big man around the world. He's all about threats and big talk to get his adversary to buckle and bend, but Iran hasn't done that and apparently isn't going to. Which might normally be a successful negotiating tactic but this time his opponent didn't bend or break. So, he started a damn war but they didn't surrender and now he's screwed. This isn't much different from what Obama did except at least Obama didn't start a freakin' war.

Second, it's not pointless for Iran, cuz they're buying time to build or acquire nuclear weapons with which to destroy Israel and us. Whatever the MOU ends up being will be utterly worthless, time and again Israel has signed agreements that were subsequently broken by the Islamic gov'ts. IOW, it's actually pointless for Israel and us to negotiate with Iran since they have absolutely no intention of honoring whatever deal is struck.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

First, Bibi is not Trump's CinC, that's BS. Trump doesn't take orders from anybody and anyone who thinks otherwise is being ridiculous. I highly doubt he cares about Israel, this is all about his superego being the big man around the world. He's all about threats and big talk to get his adversary to buckle and bend, but Iran hasn't done that and apparently isn't going to. Which might normally be a successful negotiating tactic but this time his opponent didn't bend or break. So, he started a damn war but they didn't surrender and now he's screwed. This isn't much different from what Obama did except at least Obama didn't start a freakin' war.

Second, it's not pointless for Iran, cuz they're buying time to build or acquire nuclear weapons with which to destroy Israel and us. Whatever the MOU ends up being will be utterly worthless, time and again Israel has signed agreements that were subsequently broken by the Islamic gov'ts. IOW, it's actually pointless for Israel and us to negotiate with Iran since they have absolutely no intention of honoring whatever deal is struck.

Righhhhht

Trump MoU didn’t last until lunchtime because he does not control Bibi

Let’s see what happens now that Bibi’s embarrassed Trump

If Trump is half the psychopath I believe him to be, he might actually do something about it this time

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Who could have possibly predicted this? Good on Israel, but if Trump and anybody else actually thought that this peace plan would work than they're all a bunch of morons.

Report: Iran Delays U.S. Peace Talks Over Israeli Attacks in Lebanon

On Thursday, U.S. Central Command confirmed that it has officially lifted the American blockade on Iranian seaports, and is allowing all Iranian trade...

maritime-executive.com

Virgin Mary train station in Iran

 

[Chuz Life]

Well then, WTF is he doing with this war in the 1st place if he wasn't going to end it on his terms?

There was no declaration of War by the U.S.

Iran (the current Islamofascist regime) has declared war against Israel and the (Great Satan) U.S. many times since 1979.

Trump's terms are unknown. However, some of the facts that led up to the initial strikes ARE known.

The regime reportedly killed tens of thousands of its own people for protesting, stockpiling of concentrated uranium, etc.

Trump may well have thought that taking out so many leaders at once would result in the people rising up and ending the regime, once and for all.

Regardless, it was a good strike; Except, in my opinion, he should have double tapped that hit.

This entire fiasco is solely on him, he got us into a war that he knew he couldn't win?

Things an Islamofacist defender would say.

And for what? I'm sure we put a big dent in their nuclear capabilities, but they'll keep at it with the help of Russia and China. Which begs the question: why the hell did he start this war in the 1st place?

"WE" didn't.

"THEY" did.

Iranian and Iranian-Backed Attacks Against Americans (1979-Present)

Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the clerical regime in Tehran and its proxies have committed a range of attacks against Americans. This memorandum provides select documentation of these assaults. While...

www.fdd.org

Is Iran still one of the world's biggest supporter of terrorism? Yeah.

Are they going to stop their efforts to have nuclear weapons? NO.

What was the point then for starting this war?

See above.

What was the objective(s)? And don't give me this crap about him not starting it, nobody else has the authority to militarily attack another country. He made the call and it's on him totally.

Yeah well, you can tilt at the windmill until the cows come home but the timeline lays it out quite plainly.

Trump hit their nuke facilities (likely based on intel) and saw that the Iranian people were taking to the streets - against the regime.

Then, when the Islamofascists started killing the protesters, Trump saw that as well.

Couple that with all the leftardz calling Trump "TACO" and pointing at the bombed nuke sites, reporting the bombings were a failure, Trump hit them again, took out their fuctarded leaders and here we are.

Trump has given them enough rope to hang themselves with.

Let's see if they do.

 

[kyzr]

You mean this?

Nope

An Israeli airstrike in Gaza City killed Azzam al-Hayya, the son of Hamas's chief negotiator in indirect talks with Israel, Khalil al-Hayya. The strike, which hit a residential area in late Wednesday, wounded him fatally, marking the fourth of Khalil al-Hayya's sons to be killed in Israeli attacks. [1, 2]
How are "indirect talks" negotiations? How is the son of Hamas's chief negotiator "the Iranian negotiators?"
Did the Israelis even know his name? If so, did he tell the Israelis where he was at all times, so that they wouldnt' "kill the negotiators" while bombing their hideouts?
Sounds like there was a successful strike by Israel and Hamas decided to promote one of the bodies to "son of negotiator."

I meant this:

Israel Bombs Palestinian Negotiators in Qatar; Killing 6

Israeli warplanes bombed the Qatari capital, Doha, on Tuesday, killing the 5 main members of the Palestinian negotiating team that was considering the lates ...

imemc.org

Israeli warplanes bombed the Qatari capital, Doha, on Tuesday, killing the 5 main members of the Palestinian negotiating team that was considering the latest ceasefire deal proposed by Donald Trump. A Qatari security official was also killed in the attack.

 

[task0778]

There was no declaration of War by the U.S.

Iran (the current Islamofascist regime) has declared war against Israel and the (Great Satan) U.S. many times since 1979.

Trump's terms are unknown. However, some of the facts that led up to the initial strikes ARE known.

The regime reportedly killed tens of thousands of its own people for protesting, stockpiling of concentrated uranium, etc.

Trump may well have thought that taking out so many leaders at once would result in the people rising up and ending the regime, once and for all.

Regardless, it was a good strike; Except, in my opinion, he should have double tapped that hit.



Things an Islamofacist defender would say.



"WE" didn't.

"THEY" did.

View attachment 1270910

Iranian and Iranian-Backed Attacks Against Americans (1979-Present)

Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the clerical regime in Tehran and its proxies have committed a range of attacks against Americans. This memorandum provides select documentation of these assaults. While...

www.fdd.org

See above.



Yeah well, you can tilt at the windmill until the cows come home but the timeline lays it out quite plainly.

Trump hit their nuke facilities (likely based on intel) and saw that the Iranian people were taking to the streets - against the regime.

Then, when the Islamofascists started killing the protesters, Trump saw that as well.

Couple that with all the leftardz calling Trump "TACO" and pointing at the bombed nuke sites, reporting the bombings were a failure, Trump hit them again, took out their fuctarded leaders and here we are.

Trump has given them enough rope to hang themselves with.

Let's see if they do.

You are an ideologue. You distort reality to fit your politics and you do not have the intelligence to realize it. IOW, you're also an idiot.

 

[Chuz Life]

You are an ideologue. You distort reality to fit your politics and you do not have the intelligence to realize it. IOW, you're also an idiot.

I provided a link for reference.

I digress.

You might be right.

Would that we could put it to a vote.

 

[Chuz Life]

The regime reportedly killed tens of thousands of its own people for protesting, stockpiling of concentrated uranium, . .

To clarify, the regeim was stockpiling enriched uranium and the regeim killed protesters who just wanted some freedom.

 

[task0778]

Israel's military targeted senior Hamas leadership in Qatar with an airstrike on Tuesday.

"The IDF and ISA [Shin Bet] conducted a precise strike targeting the senior leadership of the Hamas terrorist organization," the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said in a statement.

Khalil al-Hayya and Zaher Jabarin were the two targets of the Israeli strikes, Fox News chief foreign correspondent Trey Yingst said Tuesday, citing initial reports. Israeli officials told Fox News Digital that the U.S. was informed in advance of the strikes.
.
.
"For years, these members of the Hamas leadership have led the terrorist organization's operations, are directly responsible for the brutal October 7 massacre, and have been orchestrating and managing the war against the State of Israel. Prior to the strike, measures were taken in order to mitigate harm to civilians, including the use of precise munitions and additional intelligence," the IDF added.

Israeli strike targets Hamas leadership in Qatar

Israel's military targeted senior Hamas leadership in Qatar with an airstrike on Tuesday.

www.foxnews.com

I carry no torch for Israel but I have no problem going after the SOBs responsible for the October 7th massacre, wherever they might be. That was their 911; I remember the mood in this country, we were all pissed as hell and I can't blame the Israelis for feeling the same and going after the perps and their leadership.

Neither do I support what Trump is doing, why did we have to start a war when we did with Iran in the 1st place? What was the urgent and immediate threat that necessitated this decision? What was his thinking? It feels like a decision made in haste, without clear objectives and contingency plans plus an exit strategy. Did no one on his staff suggest the Iranians would close the Strait? And do not tell me he was doing Bibi's bidding, that is outrageous nonsense.

It looks like he wanted to achieve a regime change that would be more favorable to the West that obviously did not happen. Iran doesn't seem any more friendly to us than they were before, so outside of reducing their nuclear capabilities, what the Hell did we really achieve? Doesn't matter what the MOU says, they ain't going to stop their efforts to build or acquire nukes. So what if they don't have missiles that can reach us, they could load a nuke on a boat and sail it right into any US seaport. Or load it onto a truck and detonate it anywhere in the US or the world. Can't happen? Are you sure about that?

 

[Chuz Life]

Israel's military targeted senior Hamas leadership in Qatar with an airstrike on Tuesday.

"The IDF and ISA [Shin Bet] conducted a precise strike targeting the senior leadership of the Hamas terrorist organization," the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said in a statement.

Khalil al-Hayya and Zaher Jabarin were the two targets of the Israeli strikes, Fox News chief foreign correspondent Trey Yingst said Tuesday, citing initial reports. Israeli officials told Fox News Digital that the U.S. was informed in advance of the strikes.
.
.
"For years, these members of the Hamas leadership have led the terrorist organization's operations, are directly responsible for the brutal October 7 massacre, and have been orchestrating and managing the war against the State of Israel. Prior to the strike, measures were taken in order to mitigate harm to civilians, including the use of precise munitions and additional intelligence," the IDF added.

Israeli strike targets Hamas leadership in Qatar

Israel's military targeted senior Hamas leadership in Qatar with an airstrike on Tuesday.

www.foxnews.com

I carry no torch for Israel but I have no problem going after the SOBs responsible for the October 7th massacre, wherever they might be. That was their 911; I remember the mood in this country, we were all pissed as hell and I can't blame the Israelis for feeling the same and going after the perps and their leadership.

Neither do I support what Trump is doing, why did we have to start a war when we did with Iran in the 1st place? What was the urgent and immediate threat that necessitated this decision? What was his thinking? It feels like a decision made in haste, without clear objectives and contingency plans plus an exit strategy. Did no one on his staff suggest the Iranians would close the Strait? And do not tell me he was doing Bibi's bidding, that is outrageous nonsense.

It looks like he wanted to achieve a regime change that would be more favorable to the West that obviously did not happen. Iran doesn't seem any more friendly to us than they were before, so outside of reducing their nuclear capabilities, what the Hell did we really achieve? Doesn't matter what the MOU says, they ain't going to stop their efforts to build or acquire nukes. So what if they don't have missiles that can reach us, they could load a nuke on a boat and sail it right into any US seaport. Or load it onto a truck and detonate it anywhere in the US or the world. Can't happen? Are you sure about that?

You just presented the same arguments that I did and the same observations that you called me an idiot for.

Congrats.

 

[task0778]

You just presented the same arguments that I did and the same observations that you called me an idiot for.

Congrats.

Well shit. Maybe I'm the idiot. But maybe you did something dumb too at some point anyways.