We need to stop pretending that this issue is so difficult. It is obvious even to a young child.

[Shusha]

It was Merneptah.

 

[westwall]

It was Merneptah.

Yeah, I know he did one as well, but I am pretty sure that Ramses did the first one.

 

[louie888]

It was Merneptah.

Yeah, I know he did one as well, but I am pretty sure that Ramses did the first one.

Apparently, you are now satisfied that your claims are in no way a settled matter.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Shusha]

It was Merneptah.

Yeah, I know he did one as well, but I am pretty sure that Ramses did the first one.

Hmmmmm. Not familiar with any of the Ramses doing that. Certainly not earlier than Merneptah. There's the Mesha stele, but that was later. Let me know if you have a source.

 

[westwall]

It was Merneptah.

Yeah, I know he did one as well, but I am pretty sure that Ramses did the first one.

Hmmmmm. Not familiar with any of the Ramses doing that. Certainly not earlier than Merneptah. There's the Mesha stele, but that was later. Let me know if you have a source.

The Merneptah stele is the so called Israel stele, but the Ramses stele was mainly talking about the battles against the Hittites IIRC and his "victory" at the battle of Kadesh. I know for sure that that battle led to the first ever peace treaty, but it has been so long since I read those books that my memory is foggy.

 

[westwall]

It was Merneptah.

Yeah, I know he did one as well, but I am pretty sure that Ramses did the first one.

Apparently, you are now satisfied that your claims are in no way a settled matter.

Thanks for playing.

What are you babbling about junior?

 

[Shusha]

The Merneptah stele is the so called Israel stele, but the Ramses stele was mainly talking about the battles against the Hittites IIRC and his "victory at the battle of Kadesh. I know for sure that that battle led to the first ever peace treaty, but it has been so long since I read those books that my memory is foggy.

Yep. Familiar with that. Not sure anything relates to Israel though.

 

[westwall]

The Merneptah stele is the so called Israel stele, but the Ramses stele was mainly talking about the battles against the Hittites IIRC and his "victory at the battle of Kadesh. I know for sure that that battle led to the first ever peace treaty, but it has been so long since I read those books that my memory is foggy.

Yep. Familiar with that. Not sure anything relates to Israel though.

The Israel stele absolutely does, the Ramses stele (actually a poem who's name escapes me, and some prose called The Bulletin IIRC) is primarily dealing with the Kadesh campaign, and how he was lucky to not be killed thanks to the various Gods etc. But I do remember the Jews in the region being named.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You say that some number of Jews have lived there for thousands of years. OK, I don't think anyone will argue that fact. Whether that is true or not is irrelevant.

The part that I cannot accept is that nobody else has. That none of the Palestinians have any ancestors from back in the day. I have seen nothing to suggest that to be true. Surely you can point to some people who have come and gone. Sometimes even influencing culture and religion.

But then again, I haven't seen anything that would change that core group of people.

And I have never made the claim that no one else has. I have made the claim that the Jews are the only people who have CONSTANTLY been there.

You have claimed that the Palestinians are recent arrivals. Then who are all those other people?

Various Arab and Bedouin tribes people. Lydians, Persians, Egyptians, Byzantines, Normans, various European Christians, and Mamaluks, Mongols and the famous "Sea Peoples" from the time of Ramses I and II. The Holy Land has been a crossroads of travel since before time was recorded.

We have a list like that in the US. We are still all Americans.

That's because we STAYED. They didn't. You really should read some of the history's of the Holy Land. It is truly amazing what went on there. This revisionist silliness is simply hilarious when you have even the slightest knowledge of what happened before. There are period Greek, Byzantine, Roman, and of course Egyptian history's that deal with the Holy Land. I can't remember which Ramses it is, but around 1200 BCE he had a stele created that describes his conquering of Canaan and the people who lived there. I think that is the earliest non biblical sourced mention of the Jews in the Holy Land. He didn't like them much.

That's because we STAYED. They didn't.

So the Jews were the only people there?

When was that?

Link?

 

[montelatici]

Its wrong to steal land. The people from whom it was stolen was the Jewish people. How are you planning to restore the Jewish people to their stolen land?

The native people in the region that practiced Judaism (and Paganism and other religions) became Christian people by the 5th century after Christianity became the state religion of Rome. Nothing was stolen from them. Those that practiced Judaism in the region became the first Christians, as everyone knows. Whether the majority of the Christians converted from Christianity to Islam through force or convenience is up for conjecture.

 

[Shusha]

So the Jews were the only people there?

The Jewish people were the only people there. Until they got colonized and invaded. There were no Arabic speaking people there. There were no Muslim people there. There were no culturally Arab people there.

 

[montelatici]

OK, but that really does not answer the question.

Actually, the only way you could make that statement is if you CHOOSE to be blind.

I don't see where it shows that a whole population moved out and a whole new population moved in as you suggested.

The entire region was in movement for centuries. At some times there were almost no people due to disease and no arable land. But even then, there were still Jews living there. Thus it is the Palestinians who are the interlopers.

I agree with your history but I don't agree with your conclusion.

Palestine has been invaded, conquered, and occupied many times. Plus it was the cross road of trade and human migration forever. A lot of people came and went.

However, I don't believe that every time a new flag went up over city hall that everyone moved out and a whole new population moved in. Normally when a territory is conquered the political elites are removed and everyone else stays to be exploited. Somebody has to create the wealth that the conqueror wants to take.

Through all of this flux there was a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. These are the Palestinians of today.

No, they're not. The only ethnic group who have been represented in Israel from the very beginning of written history are the Jews. They are the only group that has had a constant presence there for the last 3,000 years. The Palestinians didn't arrive until around 150 years ago. The facts are very clear on that.

The Palestinians have been in Palestine since Herodotus named it Palestine around 3,000 years ago. That most of them converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ doesn't change the ancestry of the native people.

 

[rylah]

Sure the place that connected Asia and Africa was sealed for any immigration, no foreign conqueror ever 'visited' there, no ethnic cleansing or population exchange.

Revisionism is so convenient. Yet the Palestinian Arabs tell their story differently.

 

[montelatici]

So the Jews were the only people there?

The Jewish people were the only people there. Until they got colonized and invaded. There were no Arabic speaking people there. There were no Muslim people there. There were no culturally Arab people there.

There were Canaanites, Philistines, Edomites, Samaritans, Greeks and others in the area, before, during and after the Jews arrived. They all converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ.

 

[Shusha]

There were Canaanites, Philistines, Edomites, Samaritans, Greeks and others in the area, before, during and after the Jews arrived. They all converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ.

Funny how you never mention the events of colonization and invasion around that time. They all just sort of magically and innocently converted to Christianity. Funny how you never mention this as a violation of the sovereignty of the Jewish people over their own territory. Funny how it just sort of happened and no wrong-doing took place.

 

[westwall]

Actually, the only way you could make that statement is if you CHOOSE to be blind.

I don't see where it shows that a whole population moved out and a whole new population moved in as you suggested.

The entire region was in movement for centuries. At some times there were almost no people due to disease and no arable land. But even then, there were still Jews living there. Thus it is the Palestinians who are the interlopers.

I agree with your history but I don't agree with your conclusion.

Palestine has been invaded, conquered, and occupied many times. Plus it was the cross road of trade and human migration forever. A lot of people came and went.

However, I don't believe that every time a new flag went up over city hall that everyone moved out and a whole new population moved in. Normally when a territory is conquered the political elites are removed and everyone else stays to be exploited. Somebody has to create the wealth that the conqueror wants to take.

Through all of this flux there was a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. These are the Palestinians of today.

No, they're not. The only ethnic group who have been represented in Israel from the very beginning of written history are the Jews. They are the only group that has had a constant presence there for the last 3,000 years. The Palestinians didn't arrive until around 150 years ago. The facts are very clear on that.

The Palestinians have been in Palestine since Herodotus named it Palestine around 3,000 years ago. That most of them converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ doesn't change the ancestry of the native people.

Wrong. It was Hadrian that named it, and that 30+ years after Christ. The year was 73 AD and Hadrian renamed the province to humiliate the Jews. This is well known history dude. Try and keep up.

 

[westwall]

So the Jews were the only people there?

The Jewish people were the only people there. Until they got colonized and invaded. There were no Arabic speaking people there. There were no Muslim people there. There were no culturally Arab people there.

There were Canaanites, Philistines, Edomites, Samaritans, Greeks and others in the area, before, during and after the Jews arrived. They all converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ.

No, they didn't. Your fantasy's are amusing but not based in reality.

 

[rylah]

There were Canaanites, Philistines, Edomites, Samaritans, Greeks and others in the area, before, during and after the Jews arrived. They all converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ.

Funny how you never mention the events of colonization and invasion around that time. They all just sort of magically and innocently converted to Christianity. Funny how you never mention this as a violation of the sovereignty of the Jewish people over their own territory. Funny how it just sort of happened and no wrong-doing took place.

"They all converted" - just never happened.
More like they all revolted.

 

[rylah]

So the Jews were the only people there?

The Jewish people were the only people there. Until they got colonized and invaded. There were no Arabic speaking people there. There were no Muslim people there. There were no culturally Arab people there.

There were Canaanites, Philistines, Edomites, Samaritans, Greeks and others in the area, before, during and after the Jews arrived. They all converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ.

You want to see an 'ancient Canaanite' look at the Druze community. And ironically they still identify with it.
The other 'Canaanites' are the Jews and they too identify with that.

The Bedouins that recently began identifying with the legendary 'sea people' have a good sense of humor

 

[montelatici]

I don't see where it shows that a whole population moved out and a whole new population moved in as you suggested.

The entire region was in movement for centuries. At some times there were almost no people due to disease and no arable land. But even then, there were still Jews living there. Thus it is the Palestinians who are the interlopers.

I agree with your history but I don't agree with your conclusion.

Palestine has been invaded, conquered, and occupied many times. Plus it was the cross road of trade and human migration forever. A lot of people came and went.

However, I don't believe that every time a new flag went up over city hall that everyone moved out and a whole new population moved in. Normally when a territory is conquered the political elites are removed and everyone else stays to be exploited. Somebody has to create the wealth that the conqueror wants to take.

Through all of this flux there was a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. These are the Palestinians of today.

No, they're not. The only ethnic group who have been represented in Israel from the very beginning of written history are the Jews. They are the only group that has had a constant presence there for the last 3,000 years. The Palestinians didn't arrive until around 150 years ago. The facts are very clear on that.

The Palestinians have been in Palestine since Herodotus named it Palestine around 3,000 years ago. That most of them converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ doesn't change the ancestry of the native people.

Wrong. It was Hadrian that named it, and that 30+ years after Christ. The year was 73 AD and Hadrian renamed the province to humiliate the Jews. This is well known history dude. Try and keep up.

You do have such a grasp of history. LOL Just read Herodotus' Histories you idiot.

Herodotus