Zone1 "We Can Hunt Down a 95 YO Holocaust Participant For PERJURY, But Are Unable to Charge a Woman Who Instigated The MURDER of a Black Teenager"

[flacaltenn]

PLEASE tell me you’re being sarcastic about the good old days of J. Edgar Hoover - unless you mean in comparison to today.

If you read what I wrote CAREFULLY - the parallels of all this bovine scatology of using Mafia hit men to exhort confessions and then plant stories about they ACTUALLY discovered the grave sites thru anonymous sources -- is the toxic juice we're seeing in TODAY'S FBI. Except NOW -- they use a compliant leftist media to wash their dirty deeds. They are tired of being "just super cops". They want the OLD DAYS back.

No -- I'm definitely NOT a J.Edgar fan. But LIKELY there's a lot of them in the buildings with his name on them.

 

[IM2]

TEACH!

She posted facts flacaltenn. Facts you can't dispute or deny.

 

[IM2]

When people try comparing things to the taliban in trying to defend their agenda, they might want to consider that the taliban also censors topics taught in schools that do not paint them favorably much like the right wing opposition to the 1619 Project, and their distortion of diversity training and cultural competence education they conflate as CRT.

 

[MizMolly]

She was a member of a conspiracy to murder Till.

Had she not lied about him groping her, Till would not have been murdered. She set the events in motion that culminated in Till's death, but for her lie, they never would have gone after him.

She and the killers all deserved the death penalty

 

[AZrailwhale]

She and the killers all deserved the death penalty

I tend to agree, but the system is designed to let the guilty go free rather than convict the innocent. It doesn't always work. In reality all she was guilty of was perjury.

 

[flacaltenn]

When people try comparing things to the taliban in trying to defend their agenda, they might want to consider that the taliban also censors topics taught in schools that do not paint them favorably much like the right wing opposition to the 1619 Project, and their distortion of diversity training and cultural competence education they conflate as CRT.

Not many people against discussing CRT or 1619 nonsense at college level. The reason public schools are sucking gas is that they WASTE TIME trying to DUMB DOWN these fantasies to the K-5th level to "soften up their minds" at the earliest ages...

1/2 of adult America couldn't discuss and defend or refute those things. Especially, if they are under 40 or so... So -- the ARGUMENT IS -- it's NOT AGE APPROPRIATE. Nobody wants to burn books or ban ideas or weak theories. There's really nothing to fear from flawed academic genius like those examples.

Are you in the wrong thread again? THis "taliban" thing is over in Bethune vs Confederate Generals thread that you accused me of hijacking. I shouldn't have responded to an off-topic, wrong thread post like this one.

 

[flacaltenn]

She posted facts flacaltenn. Facts you can't dispute or deny.

Did you not read or understand my post? I didn't dispute or deny ANY PART OF IT. Just added some salient and VERY appropriate comments for folks to ponder.

 

[IM2]

Did you not read or understand my post? I didn't dispute or deny ANY PART OF IT. Just added some salient and VERY appropriate comments for folks to ponder.

Yawn. You didn't need to add anything.

 

[IM2]

Not many people against discussing CRT or 1619 nonsense at college level. The reason public schools are sucking gas is that they WASTE TIME trying to DUMB DOWN these fantasies to the K-5th level to "soften up their minds" at the earliest ages...

1/2 of adult America couldn't discuss and defend or refute those things. Especially, if they are under 40 or so... So -- the ARGUMENT IS -- it's NOT AGE APPROPRIATE. Nobody wants to burn books or ban ideas or weak theories. There's really nothing to fear from flawed academic genius like those examples.

Are you in the wrong thread again? THis "taliban" thing is over in Bethune vs Confederate Generals thread that you accused me of hijacking. I shouldn't have responded to an off-topic, wrong thread post like this one.

True history is not nonsense. What we have been taught is nonsense and we need to quit teaching it. White kids are not the only students in schools. Learn that reality then govvern your thinking on these matters accordingly.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Except she didn’t murder anyone, and the crime is perjury - for which there is inadequate evidence.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that her only crime was perjury and that there is inadequate evidence if she admitted she lied?

She was a participant in a conspiracy to commit murder, a murder that was motivated by a lie she told.

If you give your friend a ride to the bank and they come running out yelling at you "GO GO GO!!!" and you take off, even if you didn't know you were driving your friend to the bank to commit an armed robbery, you're still considered the get-away driver.

And if your friend shot and killed someone you can be charged as an accomplice even if you didn't know what your friends plans were or even if your friend didn't actually plan on shooting and killing anyone during the commission of the bank robbery.

What Is The Felony Murder Rule? - Michael A. Gottlieb, P.A.

 

[The Duke]

There are individuals who will go to their graves still denying that there exists any difference in the way Black people in the United States are treated versus the way many White people are treated.

When it comes to crimes, modern day crimes, I have long been documenting the differences in the way a criminal report is [allowed to be] lodged, the allegations investigated, the case referred/recommended for prosecution, then the perpetrator(s) charged, tried and sentenced when the victim is Black and the perpetrator is White.

There is no status of limitations on murder therefore no justice to be had for the family of Emmett Till but our Justice department was able to do this on behalf of the Jewish people, who for the most part are White:

There is a division within the Department of Justice set up to root out in the U.S. participants at any level in the European Holocaust for prosecution. I am intimate with this work: I ran a division at the Justice Department that supported it and pushed for legislation for compensation for Holocaust victims. And that work inspired me to commit to bring similar focus and energy to analogous cases of civil rights murder, including volunteering to help members of the Till family and their supporters draw attention to the history.​

​

In one example of the prosecutions of Nazis, America extracted a 95-year-old from his home and medevaced him to Germany for lying on his immigration form when he entered the U.S. There was no bureaucratic concern about statutes of limitations on perjury; there was no plea for compassion because of the reach of time, frailty or the possible pressure that these young people endured by Nazi commanders. ​

​

I’m proud of this work. The Justice Department’s long-term effort to root out those who supported Germany’s state genocide is among America’s strongest examples of its defense of human and civil rights. And the principle behind it is not retribution but an aspect of declaring “never again”: the forward-looking value that teaches people that ***this evil, even when carried out by the foot soldiers***, cannot be pardoned or explained away***.​

Opinion | What hunting Nazis tells us about the case of Emmett Till

Emmett Till had a last chance at justice. And we wasted it.​

What does it say about us — not the woman who accused him — that she has escaped justice?​

​

Emmett Till in 1954.Bettmann Archive via Getty Images

​

Aug. 10, 2022, 3:26 PM PDT​

By Robert Raben, former assistant attorney general​

​

Emmett Till, 14, was tortured to death on an August night in 1955 in a sweltering farm shed in Mississippi. His cries and moans went on for hours, heard by the nearby farmers. We know who bludgeoned him to death, since J.W. Milam and Roy Bryant admitted to committing the crime in the story they sold for $4,000 to Look magazine.​

​

But no one was ever punished.​

​

Today, hiding in plain sight is the last living person who could be held accountable: Carolyn Bryant Donham, the white woman whose story about Till’s confronting her while she was tending to her store alone at night triggered the monstrous extrajudicial response of her husband and other relatives, lives in North Carolina.​

​

It can seem like the time for incarcerating her has passed. But justice demands accountability in whatever time is left.​

​

The revelation this summer of a 1955 warrant for her arrest gave hope to Till’s family that justice might finally be served. But an aide to Mississippi Attorney General Lynn Fitch last month boldly said there was no new evidence to justify her arrest, and it was announced Tuesday that a grand jury had declined to indict her.​

​

In the years following Till’s death, Donham married twice, took classes at Delta State University and made jewelry that she sold at arts and crafts shows. She popped up on Facebook under an assumed name, tended to her dogs and lived a life devoid of one notable thing: punishment.​

​

But the debate about whether or not the facts compel her indictment is actually the sideshow; on the main stage is a much harder question: What does it say about us — not her — that she has escaped justice?​

At the time of Till’s death, the Leflore County, Mississippi, sheriff told reporters he did not want to “bother” Donham because she had two young children to care for. Today, she’s in her late 80s, and it can seem like the time for incarcerating her has passed.​

​

But justice demands accountability in whatever time is left. This principle has guided America’s policy in extraditing elderly Holocaust perpetrators back to Europe in the belief that they must pay for their crimes however possible — that if the only punishment left to be meted out is the denial of freedom in old age, than that’s the sentence that must be delivered.​

​

​

​

Mississippi grand jury declines indictment in Emmett Till murder​

Aug. 10, 202201:43

​

There is a division within the Department of Justice set up to root out in the U.S. participants at any level in the European Holocaust for prosecution. I am intimate with this work: I ran a division at the Justice Department that supported it and pushed for legislation for compensation for Holocaust victims. And that work inspired me to commit to bring similar focus and energy to analogous cases of civil rights murder, including volunteering to help members of the Till family and their supporters draw attention to the history.​

​

In one example of the prosecutions of Nazis, America extracted a 95-year-old from his home and medevaced him to Germany for lying on his immigration form when he entered the U.S. There was no bureaucratic concern about statutes of limitations on perjury; there was no plea for compassion because of the reach of time, frailty or the possible pressure that these young people endured by Nazi commanders.​

​

I’m proud of this work. The Justice Department’s long-term effort to root out those who supported Germany’s state genocide is among America’s strongest examples of its defense of human and civil rights. And the principle behind it is not retribution but an aspect of declaring “never again”: the forward-looking value that teaches people that this evil, even when carried out by the foot soldiers, cannot be pardoned or explained away.​

​

J.W. Milam, left; his wife, second left; Roy Bryant, far right; and his wife, Carolyn Bryant, in a courtroom in Sumner, Miss., on Sept. 23, 1955.AP​

​

We are not applying this same effort to punishing the white women who played a crucial role in sending Black men to their deaths, however. Donham set in motion the events that led to Till’s ghastly demise. Donham told the court that “this n----- man” had grabbed her hand at the cash register and said, “How about a date, baby?” She testified that she turned around and that Till then, from behind, put his left hand on her waist and his right arm on her hip and said, “What’s the matter baby, can’t you take it?” and uttered a vulgarity.​

But she later said that never happened. Till’s cousins, also teens and present at the time, said that at most he whistled at her, and even that is disputed by others at the scene. Her husband and brother-in-law were acquitted by the jury of their peers after just over an hour of deliberation. Donham did not even have to face that trifling consequence.​

​

Yet she is as responsible as her husband and kin who bludgeoned the boy to death. Our prisons are filled with Black men (and women) who participated in far less depraved crimes, but we do not have a culture that protects them. To find Donham guilty, though, would mean admitting a terrible flaw in our own culture.​

​

After public pressure, in 2006 a local prosecutor in Leflore County, Mississippi, had a grand jury consider bringing manslaughter charges against her at the conclusion of an FBI investigation that had led nowhere. The grand jury found insufficient evidence, however, so there were no charges.​

​

After the author Tim Tyson revealed in his 2017 book “The Blood of Emmett Till” that Donham had recanted her testimony, Attorney General Jeff Sessions had the Justice Department reopen the matter to see whether there was any way the federal government could intervene. That, too, fizzled. And this week, again, it was the same story.​

​

To be clear, this is not a failure of will of the prosecutors. ***This is a cultural failure***.​

​

In 2018 Sessions praised the work of the Justice Department’s best-known Nazi hunter, Eli Rosenbaum, and his team for successfully removing the 68th Nazi from the U.S. The passage of time did not deter the department from fulfilling its moral imperative of seeking justice for the victims of the Holocaust.​

​

Yet in 2022, in the case of Emmett Till, we hear the silence and our own nation’s complicity. In Western Europe, the mechanisms of the state, civil society and culture are conducting an inquiry into the past and its key perpetrators. In the U.S., we are not owning up to these chronic monstrosities nor holding enough among us accountable.​

The people who did that to that child are dead. There's no means to prosecute them. What would you have people do in the present day?
I know I would not have stood idly by if I was the neighbor. The law be damned, right is right and wrong is wrong. I might would go to prison, but there would be some dead crackers and an alive black boy. If that was a decision I had to make, that's how it would go down.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

O. J. Simpson got away with the murder of two light skinned people. There was a stronger case against him.

The prosecution didn't meet their burden of proof of 98% being beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty. If you're going to take a person's freedom and/or their life, our criminal justice system wants to be as reasonably sure as possible that the person they're sentencing is actually guilty.

He was held to the same standards as others similarly situation as himself, meaning the same standard as "white folks". He also was a celebrity and a lot of people liked him and refused to believe that he committed this crime.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

She and the killers all deserved the death penalty

Our system doesn't kill White people for killing Black people.

 

[The Duke]

O. J. Simpson got away with the murder of two light skinned people. There was a stronger case against him.

I say they pushed O.J. too far and that was justifiable homicide. Whatcha think about that?

 

[The Duke]

Our system doesn't kill White people for killing Black people.

Our system doesn't kill much of anyone anymore, even though there's fucktons that deserve it. That's a problem. Many that deserve killing are black, make no mistake about that. There more white ones that deserve killing, but that's just the demographics of America.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The people who did that to that child are dead. There's no means to prosecute them. What would you have people do in the present day?
I know I would not have stood idly by if I was the neighbor. The law be damned, right is right and wrong is wrong. I might would go to prison, but there would be some dead crackers and an alive black boy. If that was a decision I had to make, that's how it would go down.

She is still alive and her lie is what caused Till to be murdered which makes her complicit in his murder under the law.

Perjury is lying under oath about a material fact. I'm talking about the lie she told that lead her husband and his friend to go and murder Till for something that he hadn't done.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The prosecution didn't meet their burden of proof of 98% being beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty. If you're going to take a person's freedom and/or their life, our criminal justice system wants to be as reasonably sure as possible that the person they're sentencing is actually guilty.

He was held to the same standards as others similarly situation as himself, meaning the same standard as "white folks". He also was a celebrity and a lot of people liked him and refused to believe that he committed this crime.

I followed that case closely, anyone with less money and fame would have been convicted. His race didn’t matter, money and celebrity did. The case was botched from start to finish, first the DA moved it from Beverly Hills courthouse to downtown allegedly to make things easier for the media. There were special facilities at the downtown courthouse from the Manson family trials. Then Lance Ito was assigned the case and he was a star struck idiot. Then Marsha Clark underestimated OJ’s dream team of lawyers, who hand picked a jury of ignorant fools. One statement from a juror sticks in my mind to this day “I don’t know no DNA, DNA just means OJ gots blood”.

 

[IM2]

I followed that case closely, anyone with less money and fame would have been convicted. His race didn’t matter, money and celebrity did. The case was botched from start to finish, first the DA moved it from Beverly Hills courthouse to downtown allegedly to make things easier for the media. There were special facilities at the downtown courthouse from the Manson family trials. Then Lance Ito was assigned the case and he was a star struck idiot. Then Marsha Clark underestimated OJ’s dream team of lawyers, who hand picked a jury of ignorant fools. One statement from a juror sticks in my mind to this day “I don’t know no DNA, DNA just means OJ gots blood”.

Mark Furhmans lie killed the case. Now you guys want to talk about OJ, but their is a list of murdered blacks going black 400 years wwhereby whites killed blacks and got away with it. There was even a law that allowed it to be done.



And that silly dodge about going back 400 years has no merit since blacks are dying today by mysterious suicides coincidently all by hanging.

Funny how you can remember a juror nobody else ever heard.

 

[Lisa558]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that her only crime was perjury and that there is inadequate evidence if she admitted she lied?

She was a participant in a conspiracy to commit murder, a murder that was motivated by a lie she told.

If you give your friend a ride to the bank and they come running out yelling at you "GO GO GO!!!" and you take off, even if you didn't know you were driving your friend to the bank to commit an armed robbery, you're still considered the get-away driver.

And if your friend shot and killed someone you can be charged as an accomplice even if you didn't know what your friends plans were or even if your friend didn't actually plan on shooting and killing anyone during the commission of the bank robbery.

What Is The Felony Murder Rule? - Michael A. Gottlieb, P.A.

I linked to the DOJ report that said there wasn’t evidence to prosecute her, nor was there evidence - at all - that she conspired to commit murder. Why don’t you argue with the DOJ that made that decision, rather than me?

 

[Lisa558]

You just can't help yourself can you Lisa?

You can never make a comment without dragging something to do with the Jewish people into it can you, although I'll admit you were very sneaky about it this time.

The oblique reference to the Jewish Ron Goldman and the Goldman family made via your comment about OJ Simpson and your apparent displeasure that he as a Black man was acquitted.

As I've indicated previously, you're very transparent.

Wth? I said nothing about Jews! That you is how made it about Jews because I mentioned how OJ Simpson got away with murder, is now about Jews because one of his victims is Jewish? That didn’t even occur to me!

Your resentment and anger has you off the deep end.

And that was a NICE post of mine. I reported how I investigated the case further, after reading your post, to find out why they didn’t prosecute her. I learned why after reading the DOJ report, and linked to it. But still, you attack.