Water-Boarding works

[Mr. P]

Mods, put this where you want...



Psycho wanted to know my experience, here it is.
I wanted to tell most of the story since it shaped my view on torture and interrogation.

For anyone that may have any interest in what I said about my experience with water-boarding here’s the story.

Near the end of the Vietnam conflict the Army finally realized that helicopter pilots were not prepared for possibly being POWs. So they developed a very extensive course.
This course was part of the flight school curriculum, conducted three weeks before graduation.

The course was a brutal combination of Escape and Evasion and a POW camp, with a few weeks of classroom and field training. It all concluded with the evasion/escape/POW exercise and it was dreaded by ALL!
.
November (the day after Thanksgiving) about 5:30pm we were dropped in the woods.
The objective was to make our way to a point several miles away where we would meet with a partisan who would feed us and would take us to a SAFE place, the enemy we had to avoid was an infantry company tasked with the mission of finding us.

If you were captured you went right to the POW camp.
I wasn’t captured and made it to the meeting place. After we ate some crappy stew as promised (about 12am) we were loaded onto a 2 ½ ton truck to be taken to the “SAFE” place.

Things looked good until the truck was ambushed. Blank gun fire everywhere.
Shouting and screaming from outside the truck.

Well, our training was to resist, so I did. We were all lying down in the back of the truck when the screams came to get out. We didn’t. I still remember being drug out of that truck bed and landing flat on my back on a hard clay road. (The bed of the truck is about 4 ½ feet above the ground, for those that may not know. Correct me if I’m wrong, it’s been along time).

After unloading they put us back on the truck for a trip to the POW camp. I’ll always remember our escort/guard in the back with us saying in a normal listen to me voice “do what they say, these guys will hurt you”.

When we arrived at the camp and got off the truck we were make to crawl on our hands a knees and not look up. If you did look up they were on you like white on rice physically beating you. Before entering the camp you had to see the Doctor. He was in a small wooden sorta outhouse size building with a door on the front and one on the back. The doors were cut up from the ground about 2 ft. you had to crawl under them and just answer the questions, but not stand nor look up. Then you crawled out the other side and HELL started. Keep in mind I’m not even in the camp yet.

Now the crawl started to enter the camp main gate. On the way the guards were screaming, asking questions and such. Still not allowed to look up all you could see was boots. Not US boots, these guys played the part, clothes, speech, accents, the works. As you made your way to the main gate, which you had to also crawl under, they would step in front of you. Not good. To touch them brought a swarm of guards at once beating, punching and kicks. (BTW we were told that any retaliation would mean removal from the site and you would either repeat the course or be eliminated from school). So here I am crawling along and yes, boots step in front of me, bang! In just a second I am on my back with this guy straddling me and slapping the shit outta my face, forehand, backhand, forehand. He asked questions, I didn’t answer, so he slapped me more. The he asked if I liked that. I was young and a smart ass; there was really no correct answer. I said YES, and he proceeded to slap me more.

I finally got to crawl under the man gate. First stop was to strip down to your shorts and got a POW number to wear around my neck. So now everyone is crawling around on hands and knees on a cold November night in the middle of the woods in their shorts. It wasn’t long before they made us take our shorts off too. Yep, we spent a few hours nude.

The second stop was to be assigned your detail. I can’t remember all of them, there was a sand bag detail, bomb shelter detail, and some others. The sand bags went to the bomb shelter detail. The bomb shelter was because our guys were going to bomb us and the wanted us to be safe LOL. I was on the sand bag detail. We’d fill two and empty one, the resistance thing I mentioned earlier. No tools, all by hand.

This camp looked just like something out off a movie. Big bright flood lights, barb wire and wood, with guards walking outside the fence perimeter. Escape was pretty much not going to happen. There was a loud speaker that blared every few minutes calling someone to the Provost Marshals office by the POW number that we got when we stripped. “123 report to the Provost Marshals office”. That’s where interrogation took place. Or they were calling everyone to the center of the camp compound, at the flag pole, flying their flag of course, where we had to kneel on rows of 4x4s only knees touched the 4x4, body straight up, all your weight on your knees, else they’d slam you from behind, saluted their flag or be beaten too,. After crawling around for hours it hurt like hell to kneel on a 4x4 after about 5 minutes (give it a try). The salute was sort of like the German straight out arm extension, except these guys held a closed fist at chest level on extension of their arm.

Anyway 32 years later I remember my POW number was 212. They called it and resisting, I didn’t go. Awhile later they called again, I didn’t go. The third time I went. Now by this time they let us stand, the only catch was, you couldn’t be taller than the Provost Marshal. Yep, he was a short man, but stooping over was way better than crawling.
At this point we also had to salute “them” anytime we encountered them.

So, now I’m on my way the Provost Marshals office for my interrogation and in front of me what appears but one of them. He asked where I was going and I told him the Provost Marshals office. He asks if I knew who he was. I didn’t, I looked, yep it WAS the Provost Marshal! I did the BS salute, and so did he, a fist right in the middle of my chest. Then he let me leave.

When I got into the office, if you could call it that, I was told to sit on a foot locker and wait. I did. While I’m sitting there NUDE and the damn lid starts to move under me. It turns out my room mate was in the foot locker, part of his interrogation I guess.
They took me directly to a heavy wooden chair with handcuffs on it. They said sit on your hands, if you don’t we’ll handcuff you! They asked me stuff. Then they took this large bath towel out of a large bucket of water, wrapped it around my face twisted it tight behind my head and began asking the same and more questions. I remember “who is your escape committee leader”. Shortly (although it seemed forever) they removed the towel. I said I did know of any leader. They put the towel back around my face. Then they poured water over my head. Same questions while holding the towel snug. This went on for awhile, maybe 10 minutes before I gave them the name “Howdy Dowdy” I said. They weren’t impressed and the soaked towel and more water returned to my face. It wasn’t long before I broke. When you breathe in and just get water it doesn’t take long. I’m not proud of that but keep in mind it was training not war.
***From the first link in post#1 Water-boarding means holding a person's head under water or pouring water on cloth or cellophane placed over the nose and mouth to simulate drowning.

There’s much more before the end of that night, but let me just say this…
I was never a POW, but this training, as distasteful as it seems, gave me a glimpse of what it might be like, which I guess was the point. It wasn’t just “elementary survival training” as Psycho puts it.

I'll tell ya what if I were ever a POW, I’ll take a pair of women’s panties over my head any day!
That’s a piece of cake.

BTW..a year or so after I graduated they shut the POW camp part down, I never found out exactly why.

 

[Annie]

Mods, put this where you want...



Psycho wanted to know my experience, here it is.
I wanted to tell most of the story since it shaped my view on torture and interrogation.

For anyone that may have any interest in what I said about my experience with water-boarding here’s the story.

Near the end of the Vietnam conflict the Army finally realized that helicopter pilots were not prepared for possibly being POWs. So they developed a very extensive course.
This course was part of the flight school curriculum, conducted three weeks before graduation.

The course was a brutal combination of Escape and Evasion and a POW camp, with a few weeks of classroom and field training. It all concluded with the evasion/escape/POW exercise and it was dreaded by ALL!
.
November (the day after Thanksgiving) about 5:30pm we were dropped in the woods.
The objective was to make our way to a point several miles away where we would meet with a partisan who would feed us and would take us to a SAFE place, the enemy we had to avoid was an infantry company tasked with the mission of finding us.

If you were captured you went right to the POW camp.
I wasn’t captured and made it to the meeting place. After we ate some crappy stew as promised (about 12am) we were loaded onto a 2 ½ ton truck to be taken to the “SAFE” place.

Things looked good until the truck was ambushed. Blank gun fire everywhere.
Shouting and screaming from outside the truck.

Well, our training was to resist, so I did. We were all lying down in the back of the truck when the screams came to get out. We didn’t. I still remember being drug out of that truck bed and landing flat on my back on a hard clay road. (The bed of the truck is about 4 ½ feet above the ground, for those that may not know. Correct me if I’m wrong, it’s been along time).

After unloading they put us back on the truck for a trip to the POW camp. I’ll always remember our escort/guard in the back with us saying in a normal listen to me voice “do what they say, these guys will hurt you”.

When we arrived at the camp and got off the truck we were make to crawl on our hands a knees and not look up. If you did look up they were on you like white on rice physically beating you. Before entering the camp you had to see the Doctor. He was in a small wooden sorta outhouse size building with a door on the front and one on the back. The doors were cut up from the ground about 2 ft. you had to crawl under them and just answer the questions, but not stand nor look up. Then you crawled out the other side and HELL started. Keep in mind I’m not even in the camp yet.

Now the crawl started to enter the camp main gate. On the way the guards were screaming, asking questions and such. Still not allowed to look up all you could see was boots. Not US boots, these guys played the part, clothes, speech, accents, the works. As you made your way to the main gate, which you had to also crawl under, they would step in front of you. Not good. To touch them brought a swarm of guards at once beating, punching and kicks. (BTW we were told that any retaliation would mean removal from the site and you would either repeat the course or be eliminated from school). So here I am crawling along and yes, boots step in front of me, bang! In just a second I am on my back with this guy straddling me and slapping the shit outta my face, forehand, backhand, forehand. He asked questions, I didn’t answer, so he slapped me more. The he asked if I liked that. I was young and a smart ass; there was really no correct answer. I said YES, and he proceeded to slap me more.

I finally got to crawl under the man gate. First stop was to strip down to your shorts and got a POW number to wear around my neck. So now everyone is crawling around on hands and knees on a cold November night in the middle of the woods in their shorts. It wasn’t long before they made us take our shorts off too. Yep, we spent a few hours nude.

The second stop was to be assigned your detail. I can’t remember all of them, there was a sand bag detail, bomb shelter detail, and some others. The sand bags went to the bomb shelter detail. The bomb shelter was because our guys were going to bomb us and the wanted us to be safe LOL. I was on the sand bag detail. We’d fill two and empty one, the resistance thing I mentioned earlier. No tools, all by hand.

This camp looked just like something out off a movie. Big bright flood lights, barb wire and wood, with guards walking outside the fence perimeter. Escape was pretty much not going to happen. There was a loud speaker that blared every few minutes calling someone to the Provost Marshals office by the POW number that we got when we stripped. “123 report to the Provost Marshals office”. That’s where interrogation took place. Or they were calling everyone to the center of the camp compound, at the flag pole, flying their flag of course, where we had to kneel on rows of 4x4s only knees touched the 4x4, body straight up, all your weight on your knees, else they’d slam you from behind, saluted their flag or be beaten too,. After crawling around for hours it hurt like hell to kneel on a 4x4 after about 5 minutes (give it a try). The salute was sort of like the German straight out arm extension, except these guys held a closed fist at chest level on extension of their arm.

Anyway 32 years later I remember my POW number was 212. They called it and resisting, I didn’t go. Awhile later they called again, I didn’t go. The third time I went. Now by this time they let us stand, the only catch was, you couldn’t be taller than the Provost Marshal. Yep, he was a short man, but stooping over was way better than crawling.
At this point we also had to salute “them” anytime we encountered them.

So, now I’m on my way the Provost Marshals office for my interrogation and in front of me what appears but one of them. He asked where I was going and I told him the Provost Marshals office. He asks if I knew who he was. I didn’t, I looked, yep it WAS the Provost Marshal! I did the BS salute, and so did he, a fist right in the middle of my chest. Then he let me leave.

When I got into the office, if you could call it that, I was told to sit on a foot locker and wait. I did. While I’m sitting there NUDE and the damn lid starts to move under me. It turns out my room mate was in the foot locker, part of his interrogation I guess.
They took me directly to a heavy wooden chair with handcuffs on it. They said sit on your hands, if you don’t we’ll handcuff you! They asked me stuff. Then they took this large bath towel out of a large bucket of water, wrapped it around my face twisted it tight behind my head and began asking the same and more questions. I remember “who is your escape committee leader”. Shortly (although it seemed forever) they removed the towel. I said I did know of any leader. They put the towel back around my face. Then they poured water over my head. Same questions while holding the towel snug. This went on for awhile, maybe 10 minutes before I gave them the name “Howdy Dowdy” I said. They weren’t impressed and the soaked towel and more water returned to my face. It wasn’t long before I broke. When you breathe in and just get water it doesn’t take long. I’m not proud of that but keep in mind it was training not war.
***From the first link in post#1 Water-boarding means holding a person's head under water or pouring water on cloth or cellophane placed over the nose and mouth to simulate drowning.

There’s much more before the end of that night, but let me just say this…
I was never a POW, but this training, as distasteful as it seems, gave me a glimpse of what it might be like, which I guess was the point. It wasn’t just “elementary survival training” as Psycho puts it.

I'll tell ya what if I were ever a POW, I’ll take a pair of women’s panties over my head any day!
That’s a piece of cake.

BTW..a year or so after I graduated they shut the POW camp part down, I never found out exactly why.

Mr. P, thank you for serving and for sharing that. That's the difference between yourself, Gunny, CSM, dmp, jeff, and the likes of psycho. Now it maybe that Psycho was a vet and is also really a psycho and that is why it appears he is a lying sos.

However, whether psycho or not, he has said more against and to vets than anyone I've ever known, including Kerry. He is a miserable sack of excretment.

 

[Gunny]

Mods, put this where you want...



Psycho wanted to know my experience, here it is.
I wanted to tell most of the story since it shaped my view on torture and interrogation.

For anyone that may have any interest in what I said about my experience with water-boarding here’s the story.

Near the end of the Vietnam conflict the Army finally realized that helicopter pilots were not prepared for possibly being POWs. So they developed a very extensive course.
This course was part of the flight school curriculum, conducted three weeks before graduation.

The course was a brutal combination of Escape and Evasion and a POW camp, with a few weeks of classroom and field training. It all concluded with the evasion/escape/POW exercise and it was dreaded by ALL!
.
November (the day after Thanksgiving) about 5:30pm we were dropped in the woods.
The objective was to make our way to a point several miles away where we would meet with a partisan who would feed us and would take us to a SAFE place, the enemy we had to avoid was an infantry company tasked with the mission of finding us.

If you were captured you went right to the POW camp.
I wasn’t captured and made it to the meeting place. After we ate some crappy stew as promised (about 12am) we were loaded onto a 2 ½ ton truck to be taken to the “SAFE” place.

Things looked good until the truck was ambushed. Blank gun fire everywhere.
Shouting and screaming from outside the truck.

Well, our training was to resist, so I did. We were all lying down in the back of the truck when the screams came to get out. We didn’t. I still remember being drug out of that truck bed and landing flat on my back on a hard clay road. (The bed of the truck is about 4 ½ feet above the ground, for those that may not know. Correct me if I’m wrong, it’s been along time).

After unloading they put us back on the truck for a trip to the POW camp. I’ll always remember our escort/guard in the back with us saying in a normal listen to me voice “do what they say, these guys will hurt you”.

When we arrived at the camp and got off the truck we were make to crawl on our hands a knees and not look up. If you did look up they were on you like white on rice physically beating you. Before entering the camp you had to see the Doctor. He was in a small wooden sorta outhouse size building with a door on the front and one on the back. The doors were cut up from the ground about 2 ft. you had to crawl under them and just answer the questions, but not stand nor look up. Then you crawled out the other side and HELL started. Keep in mind I’m not even in the camp yet.

Now the crawl started to enter the camp main gate. On the way the guards were screaming, asking questions and such. Still not allowed to look up all you could see was boots. Not US boots, these guys played the part, clothes, speech, accents, the works. As you made your way to the main gate, which you had to also crawl under, they would step in front of you. Not good. To touch them brought a swarm of guards at once beating, punching and kicks. (BTW we were told that any retaliation would mean removal from the site and you would either repeat the course or be eliminated from school). So here I am crawling along and yes, boots step in front of me, bang! In just a second I am on my back with this guy straddling me and slapping the shit outta my face, forehand, backhand, forehand. He asked questions, I didn’t answer, so he slapped me more. The he asked if I liked that. I was young and a smart ass; there was really no correct answer. I said YES, and he proceeded to slap me more.

I finally got to crawl under the man gate. First stop was to strip down to your shorts and got a POW number to wear around my neck. So now everyone is crawling around on hands and knees on a cold November night in the middle of the woods in their shorts. It wasn’t long before they made us take our shorts off too. Yep, we spent a few hours nude.

The second stop was to be assigned your detail. I can’t remember all of them, there was a sand bag detail, bomb shelter detail, and some others. The sand bags went to the bomb shelter detail. The bomb shelter was because our guys were going to bomb us and the wanted us to be safe LOL. I was on the sand bag detail. We’d fill two and empty one, the resistance thing I mentioned earlier. No tools, all by hand.

This camp looked just like something out off a movie. Big bright flood lights, barb wire and wood, with guards walking outside the fence perimeter. Escape was pretty much not going to happen. There was a loud speaker that blared every few minutes calling someone to the Provost Marshals office by the POW number that we got when we stripped. “123 report to the Provost Marshals office”. That’s where interrogation took place. Or they were calling everyone to the center of the camp compound, at the flag pole, flying their flag of course, where we had to kneel on rows of 4x4s only knees touched the 4x4, body straight up, all your weight on your knees, else they’d slam you from behind, saluted their flag or be beaten too,. After crawling around for hours it hurt like hell to kneel on a 4x4 after about 5 minutes (give it a try). The salute was sort of like the German straight out arm extension, except these guys held a closed fist at chest level on extension of their arm.

Anyway 32 years later I remember my POW number was 212. They called it and resisting, I didn’t go. Awhile later they called again, I didn’t go. The third time I went. Now by this time they let us stand, the only catch was, you couldn’t be taller than the Provost Marshal. Yep, he was a short man, but stooping over was way better than crawling.
At this point we also had to salute “them” anytime we encountered them.

So, now I’m on my way the Provost Marshals office for my interrogation and in front of me what appears but one of them. He asked where I was going and I told him the Provost Marshals office. He asks if I knew who he was. I didn’t, I looked, yep it WAS the Provost Marshal! I did the BS salute, and so did he, a fist right in the middle of my chest. Then he let me leave.

When I got into the office, if you could call it that, I was told to sit on a foot locker and wait. I did. While I’m sitting there NUDE and the damn lid starts to move under me. It turns out my room mate was in the foot locker, part of his interrogation I guess.
They took me directly to a heavy wooden chair with handcuffs on it. They said sit on your hands, if you don’t we’ll handcuff you! They asked me stuff. Then they took this large bath towel out of a large bucket of water, wrapped it around my face twisted it tight behind my head and began asking the same and more questions. I remember “who is your escape committee leader”. Shortly (although it seemed forever) they removed the towel. I said I did know of any leader. They put the towel back around my face. Then they poured water over my head. Same questions while holding the towel snug. This went on for awhile, maybe 10 minutes before I gave them the name “Howdy Dowdy” I said. They weren’t impressed and the soaked towel and more water returned to my face. It wasn’t long before I broke. When you breathe in and just get water it doesn’t take long. I’m not proud of that but keep in mind it was training not war.
***From the first link in post#1 Water-boarding means holding a person's head under water or pouring water on cloth or cellophane placed over the nose and mouth to simulate drowning.

There’s much more before the end of that night, but let me just say this…
I was never a POW, but this training, as distasteful as it seems, gave me a glimpse of what it might be like, which I guess was the point. It wasn’t just “elementary survival training” as Psycho puts it.

I'll tell ya what if I were ever a POW, I’ll take a pair of women’s panties over my head any day!
That’s a piece of cake.

BTW..a year or so after I graduated they shut the POW camp part down, I never found out exactly why.

My father told me a similar story about 25+ years ago, not to mention the Vietnam vet Marines I trained under when I first joined the Corps.

What I'm waiting for is THIS:

About the only thing difficult I see in your story is that you had to cut and paste about a lot of shit you obviously know nothing about. Give me the realism that I experienced and I'll tell you how close you come to accurate.

You backed up your story ..... now I want to hear Mr War Hero's .....

 

[Gunny]

Mr. P, thank you for serving and for sharing that. That's the difference between yourself, Gunny, CSM, dmp, jeff, and the likes of psycho. Now it maybe that Psycho was a vet and is also really a psycho and that is why it appears he is a lying sos.

However, whether psycho or not, he has said more against and to vets than anyone I've ever known, including Kerry. He is a miserable sack of excretment.

 

[Annie]

My father told me a similar story about 25+ years ago, not to mention the Vietnam vet Marines I trained under when I first joined the Corps.

What I'm waiting for is THIS:



You backed up your story ..... now I want to hear Mr War Hero's .....

There was not one funny thing in Mr. P's rendition, but the bolded part of your reply made me laugh, in a very cynical sort of way.

 

[Gunny]

There was not one funny thing in Mr. P's rendition, but the bolded part of your reply made me laugh, in a very cynical sort of way.

Well damn, Kathianne, what HASN'T he done .... according to him? You got Mr P who rarely mentions that he is vet except as part of conversation .... he takes care of the Veteran's Day post each year, updating everyone's info, something he doesn't have to do .... a person who obviously spent time in the military willing to share an experience which in a lot of instances is a very hard thing to do ..... being attacked by a wannabe Audie Murphy who has claimed to have been and done just about everything there is to do.

I'm just trying to figure out how he was in the USAF "black ops" carrying out illegal, clandestine ops in Cambodia AND a POW at the same time.

 

[Annie]

Well damn, Kathianne, what HASN'T he done .... according to him? You got Mr P who rarely mentions that he is vet except as part of conversation .... he takes care of the Veteran's Day post each year, updating everyone's info, something he doesn't have to do .... a person who obviously spent time in the military willing to share an experience which in a lot of instances is a very hard thing to do ..... being attacked by a wannabe Audie Murphy who has claimed to have been and done just about everything there is to do.

I'm just trying to figure out how he was in the USAF "black ops" carrying out illegal, clandestine ops in Cambodia AND a POW at the same time.

Yup, Mr. P and myself, we've had our differences. I've always felt that anyone that has served, deserves all of our gratitude. It doesn't make one who has served, better than those that haven't, as far as opinion on issues goes, but it does deserve respect. Which is why a probable fake like PB deserves contempt. I find his record suspect, but I really am not qualified.

I'll leave it to the vets here to discuss the possibility he could be telling the truth.

 

[Mr. P]

There was not one funny thing in Mr. P's rendition, but the bolded part of your reply made me laugh, in a very cynical sort of way.

Hey now, I think the women’s panties part was sorta funny, in a tortured sort of way.

 

[Gunny]

Yup, Mr. P and myself, we've had our differences. I've always felt that anyone that has served, deserves all of our gratitude. It doesn't make one who has served, better than those that haven't, as far as opinion on issues goes, but it does deserve respect. Which is why a probable fake like PB deserves contempt. I find his record suspect, but I really am not qualified.

I'll leave it to the vets here to discuss the possibility he could be telling the truth.

Mr P and I disagree on some fundamental issues. He always presents his argument and I present mine. Not agreeing with him does not make him undeserving of respect so long as he treats me in kind.

Psychoblues has disrespected every vet on this board at one time or another. The only requirement as a vet one needs to know psychoblues is a fraud is that his stories don't add up, and anyone with military experience, much less careerists such as CSM, PEGWINN and myself, can see right through them.

He claims he was in the USAF.

Then he claims he was in ground combat. The USAF, as a matter of habit, does not engage in ground combat.

Then he claimed he was in "all branches of the service; yet, none of them." As CSM pointed out, sounds like he worked as a NAFI civilian at the PX.

He's fought in every war from Korea thru Desert Storm. EVEN IF he just happened to serve that many years, the odds that he would serve in each and every conflict are not good.

Then there's the fact that in order to serve past 26 years in any branch of service, one would have to be an E-9 (enlisted) or an 0-7, Brigadier General(officer). No one with psycho's screwball political viewpoint would have a chance at attaining either rank. Matter of fact, odds are good he'd never make E-8 or O-6. Then you have service limitations imposed; which, would preclude the length of service he claims.

He's claimed to be some other things that would require completely separate, other lifetimes.

And which other vet on this board to do you hear beginning every post with: "As a vet of every war :blah2: "? Answer: none.

 

[Gunny]

Hey now, I think the women’s panties part was sorta funny, in a tortured sort of way.

Maybe I watch too much History Channel and/or read too much, but waterboarding is a pretty weak form of coersion that only those pushing a political viewpoint are going to label torture.

Now the Apaches knew torture .... they'd tie captives head down over a fire far enough away that their brains cooked slowly ..... I think they must've had psycho for awhile.

 

[Annie]

Mr P and I disagree on some fundamental issues. He always presents his argument and I present mine. Not agreeing with him does not make him undeserving of respect so long as he treats me in kind.

Psychoblues has disrespected every vet on this board at one time or another. The only requirement as a vet one needs to know psychoblues is a fraud is that his stories don't add up, and anyone with military experience, much less careerists such as CSM, PEGWINN and myself, can see right through them.

He claims he was in the USAF.

Then he claims he was in ground combat. The USAF, as a matter of habit, does not engage in ground combat.

Then he claimed he was in "all branches of the service; yet, none of them." As CSM pointed out, sounds like he worked as a NAFI civilian at the PX.

He's fought in every war from Korea thru Desert Storm. EVEN IF he just happened to serve that many years, the odds that he would serve in each and every conflict are not good.

Then there's the fact that in order to serve past 26 years in any branch of service, one would have to be an E-9 (enlisted) or an 0-7, Brigadier General(officer). No one with psycho's screwball political viewpoint would have a chance at attaining either rank. Matter of fact, odds are good he'd never make E-8 or O-6. Then you have service limitations imposed; which, would preclude the length of service he claims.

He's claimed to be some other things that would require completely separate, other lifetimes.

And which other vet on this board to do you hear beginning every post with: "As a vet of every war :blah2: "? Answer: none.

without understanding the ranks, that has been my take. As I've said, my only 'firsthand' knowledge came through my dad, drafted in WWII and unlucky enough to be in 3rd wave at Omaha. Then there have been the friends of my children, serving since 9/11. I think my dad was still a private when he got out, with a purple heart and some other commendations.

My kids friends are still serving, every day we pray that they'll come home safe. We are now up to two West Point grads and an Air Force grad. There are 6 that we are also praying for that enlisted during or after graduation from other schools.

 

[MtnBiker]

OK, biker, I have no "creditability".

Yup, truer words have rarely been spoken.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33948&page=3&highlight=bullshit

 

[Annie]

Yup, truer words have rarely been spoken.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33948&page=3&highlight=bullshit

Going to be my sig for a bit. At the time, I thought it would be a bit 'over the top', considering all, no longer.

 

[Gunny]

without understanding the ranks, that has been my take. As I've said, my only 'firsthand' knowledge came through my dad, drafted in WWII and unlucky enough to be in 3rd wave at Omaha. Then there have been the friends of my children, serving since 9/11. I think my dad was still a private when he got out, with a purple heart and some other commendations.

My kids friends are still serving, every day we pray that they'll come home safe. We are now up to two West Point grads and an Air Force grad. There are 6 that we are also praying for that enlisted during or after graduation from other schools.

One of my brothers is a Captain in the Army and the West Point grad a Major. My daughter is a medic.

Both brothers have voluntarily returned to Iraq, and my daughter is slated to go in a couple of months.

I hope and pray nothing happens to them, but they know why they are there and what it's all about. Coming from a predominantly military family for several generations back, we all accept each other's fates with a grain of salt, and we all understand the risks.

During Desert Storm, they were all stateside and I was the one deployed to the the Gulf (for 13 months). My youngest daughter learned to walk while I was gone. Just the way things are.

I'd do it again.

 

[MtnBiker]

Going to be my sig for a bit. At the time, I thought it would be a bit 'over the top', considering all, no longer.

Awesome!

 

[Gunny]

Going to be my sig for a bit. At the time, I thought it would be a bit 'over the top', considering all, no longer.

LMAO .... psycho finally said something true .....

 

[CSM]

Thanks Mr. P...you didn't have to do that. I went through similar training...not much fun really.

Since we are talking about who has relatives/friends serving let me say that I have two sons who did their tour in the sandbox and got back last Feb; another son served in the first go around over there .... all came back in one piece. I am very proud of them and their fellow soldiers. Unfortunately, 7 of those who went with them did not come back.

Gunny, give my thanks and highest regards to yours who are serving and about to serve...same for you Kath; may they all come home safe.

 

[trobinett]

Thanks Mr. P.

During my time in the Army, 65' thru 68', we heard the Air Force was starting up a POW school for some of their pilots.

 

[MGB]

Depends on what your definition of "works" is.

If it means that it promotes the abject humiliation of the detainee and prompts confessions to everything including the last Ice Age, then yes, it works.

If it means that it promotes the collection of useful information about the enemy that may shorten a conflict or save the lives of the Forces of Good, the answer is no, it does not work.

There is a reason why in the United States we have developed a tradition that does not recognize coerced confessions and that is that coerced testimony has NO PROBATIVE VALUE WHATSOEVER.

Deprived of oxygen, I will GLADLY admit to having shot JFK, to have killed JonBenet Ramsey, to have left ice cream in OJ's garage and kidnapped the Lindburg baby. So what? Of what earthly benefit is my confession to anyone? In point of fact, it only serves to divert critical manpower AWAY from the search for the very information my coerced confession obscures.

One can analogize to the movie Dirty Harry, in which our intrepid Lieutenant Callahan stomps on Scorpio's broken leg in a desparate attempt to save the life of poor Mary Ann Deegan, buried alive somewhere and with only 9 fingers left. In that scenario, even bleeding heart, wine swilling liberals like me can understand Callahan's provocation and give a measure of respect to his actions. He is dealing with minutes if not seconds.

Our national policy is justified in just such a fashion - there could be a terrorist plot ready to strike the heartland at this very hour! But that justification looks pretty foolish, does it not, more than 5 YEARS post 9/11?

Emergency often does require extraordinary procedures. But how long will this emergency last? As long as the Berlin Wall? As long as the Soviet Union? As long as the last Ice Age?

One also has to consider our standing in the world community. Our barbaritry with our detainees has probably had MORE to do with our diminished standing in that community - with a concommitant diminution of our POWER in the world community, than any other incident of US policy in the past 5 years.

The cost is too great for rewards that are illusory. Its time to reclaim our humanity. If for no other reason than to retake the moral high ground against the time when some of OUR soldiers are subjected to the same atrocities. Blackhawk Down, anyone?

 

[trobinett]

MGB posts:

Our national policy is justified in just such a fashion - there could be a terrorist plot ready to strike the heartland at this very hour! But that justification looks pretty foolish, does it not, more than 5 YEARS post 9/11?

Can I just call you MG for short?

What makes you think, that any number of terrorist plot's HAVEN'T been uncovered by "water-boarding"?

As to justification, personally, I think 4000 plus American lives is justification enough.:usa:

Emergency often does require extraordinary procedures. But how long will this emergency last? As long as the Berlin Wall? As long as the Soviet Union? As long as the last Ice Age?

As long as it takes.

Why do liberals have such a hard time getting their collective minds around that one concept?