Lastamender
Diamond Member
- Dec 28, 2011
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No explosion. Drama queen.
Wasn't Mr. Peanuts the worst president in US history
- Thread starter Sayaras
- Start date
KissMy
Free Breast Exam
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I would buy him a beer but I would not vote for him for anything....I particularly condemn him for giving away the Panama Canal....the Canal Zone was a great place...spent a few years down there.I wouldn't buy him a beer, but, I would vote for him in the general election.
I vote for the policies, and you vote for the emotions. Got it.
Lastamender
Diamond Member
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We had no debt before Trump?KABOOM again DB!
Interest on Trump debt is now a $1 trillion/year.
Carter was going to win if CIA Bush didn't get the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election.
In a lot of ways, for the middle class today, Reagan was the disaster. You see all the blue collar people who don't make as much as their parents did? That's Reagan's fault. And Bush's. Both of them destroyed the middle class. How? By breaking unions. Reagan started it but Bush really struck the big blow with all those high paying manufacturing jobs going overseas right before his Great Recession.
mikegriffith1
Mike Griffith
I agree that Jimmy Carter made some terrible mistakes in foreign policy, but he was one of the most honest and principled Presidents in U.S. history, and he did many good things in domestic policy.
Carter implemented massive deregulation in several industries that did much to pave the way for the economic boom of the 1980s. Carter also held federal spending to a very modest growth rate.
And, it's worth mentioning that Carter had his eyes opened by the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979. Following the invasion, Carter pushed through Congress one of the largest increases in defense spending in our history, and after the invasion he said he had learned that you cannot trust the Soviets. Also, when Carter became convinced that the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua was smuggling arms to Marxist guerillas in El Salvador, he cut off aid to the regime.
Mushroom
Gold Member
No, they had done what they wanted and they were of no longer any value.
One has to remember the propaganda they got out of that, as for decades after they would talk to all who listened about how they toppled the American President. Because more than any single issue (and there were a lot starting with stagflation), the inability of the President to deal with Iran caused his administration to end.
However, I also would never say he was a bad President. He was simply a bad President for that time. Because more often than not he would take a "wait and see" attitude to issues, and that in the end lost him the confidence of the population. The Rose Garden Campaign, several speeches where he gave nothing but platitudes, not trying to deal firmly with Iran, all of that added up to the general opinion that he was not an effective leader.
And his administration in a different era would not have had those problems. And I actually see a lot of similarities in his administration and the current one to be honest. Although this time instead of a brother, he is dealing with a son that is an embarrassment.
Mushroom
Gold Member
Of all the things he did, the one I still can not forgive him for is striking down the Two China Policy. That is something that still bothers the hell out of me over 4 decades later.
mikegriffith1
Mike Griffith
I agree. That was a terrible decision. Inexcusable.
Mushroom
Gold Member
I find it interesting in "The Bear and the Dragon", that Tom Clancy mirrored my thoughts in that. And by the end of the book the President in it restored the "Two China" policy.
Natural Citizen
American Made
- Aug 8, 2016
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I've always thought that Carter got an undeserved bad rap. But it would be a long, drawn out bit of Daving to make the case as to why I'm of that view. And there's just no value in it.
DudleySmith
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Carter's hostage fiasco cost him the second term. The failure of the rescue made him look incompetent and lost him votes. At least part of his problem was his antisemitism and not seeking advice on desert operations from the Israelis, never mind it was Arafat and his terrorist thugs who screwed up his Camp David accords plan.
en.wikipedia.org
Retired Chief of Naval Operations Admiral James L. Holloway III led the official investigation in 1980 into the causes of the operation's failure on behalf of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Holloway Report primarily cited deficiencies in mission planning, command and control, and inter-service operability, and provided a catalyst to reorganize the Department of Defense. One mistake in mission planning was the selecting of the RH-53D helicopter over the better suited HH-53 helicopter.[62]
The various services' failure to cohesively work together prompted the establishment of a new multi-service organization several years later. The United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) became operational on 16 April 1987. Each service now has its own special operations forces under USSOCOM's overall control.[62][Note 10]
The lack of well-trained Army helicopter pilots who were capable of the low-level night flying needed for modern special operations missions prompted the creation of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (SOAR) (Night Stalkers). In addition to the 160th SOAR's creation, the US Defense Department now trains many military helicopter pilots in low-level penetration, aerial refueling and use of night-vision goggles.
In addition to the formal report, various reasons for the mission failure have been argued, with most analysts agreeing that an excessively complex plan, poor operational planning, flawed command structure, lack of adequate pilot training and poor weather conditions were all contributing factors and combined to the failure of the operation.[63]
Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia
Retired Chief of Naval Operations Admiral James L. Holloway III led the official investigation in 1980 into the causes of the operation's failure on behalf of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Holloway Report primarily cited deficiencies in mission planning, command and control, and inter-service operability, and provided a catalyst to reorganize the Department of Defense. One mistake in mission planning was the selecting of the RH-53D helicopter over the better suited HH-53 helicopter.[62]
The various services' failure to cohesively work together prompted the establishment of a new multi-service organization several years later. The United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) became operational on 16 April 1987. Each service now has its own special operations forces under USSOCOM's overall control.[62][Note 10]
The lack of well-trained Army helicopter pilots who were capable of the low-level night flying needed for modern special operations missions prompted the creation of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (SOAR) (Night Stalkers). In addition to the 160th SOAR's creation, the US Defense Department now trains many military helicopter pilots in low-level penetration, aerial refueling and use of night-vision goggles.
In addition to the formal report, various reasons for the mission failure have been argued, with most analysts agreeing that an excessively complex plan, poor operational planning, flawed command structure, lack of adequate pilot training and poor weather conditions were all contributing factors and combined to the failure of the operation.[63]
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Batcat
Diamond Member
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Jimmy Carter is a nice guy. Nice guys do not always make good Presidents.
I have a lot of admiration for Jimmy Carter but feel that up to just recently he was the worst President in modern times. In my honest opinion, Joe Biden has replaced him at the bottom of the list.
mikegriffith1
Mike Griffith
Carter's hostage fiasco cost him the second term. The failure of the rescue made him look incompetent and lost him votes. At least part of his problem was his antisemitism and not seeking advice on desert operations from the Israelis, never mind it was Arafat and his terrorist thugs who screwed up his Camp David accords plan.
Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia
Retired Chief of Naval Operations Admiral James L. Holloway III led the official investigation in 1980 into the causes of the operation's failure on behalf of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Holloway Report primarily cited deficiencies in mission planning, command and control, and inter-service operability, and provided a catalyst to reorganize the Department of Defense. One mistake in mission planning was the selecting of the RH-53D helicopter over the better suited HH-53 helicopter.[62]
The various services' failure to cohesively work together prompted the establishment of a new multi-service organization several years later. The United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) became operational on 16 April 1987. Each service now has its own special operations forces under USSOCOM's overall control.[62][Note 10]
The lack of well-trained Army helicopter pilots who were capable of the low-level night flying needed for modern special operations missions prompted the creation of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (SOAR) (Night Stalkers). In addition to the 160th SOAR's creation, the US Defense Department now trains many military helicopter pilots in low-level penetration, aerial refueling and use of night-vision goggles.
In addition to the formal report, various reasons for the mission failure have been argued, with most analysts agreeing that an excessively complex plan, poor operational planning, flawed command structure, lack of adequate pilot training and poor weather conditions were all contributing factors and combined to the failure of the operation.[63]
I don't see how you can blame Carter for the failure of the rescue mission. The military brass who planned it were responsible for its failure. Carter didn't choose to use second-rate helicopters or fail to put experienced pilots in those choppers--the military planners did those things.
That being said, it's also fair to say that if Carter had not so horribly bungled our relations with the Shah's government and allowed the Muslim radicals to take over, there would have been no American and Canadian hostages in the first place.
DudleySmith
Diamond Member
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I didn't blame Carter for the mission failure. I said the failure helped cost him enough votes to lose the election. Nothing debatable about that. As CIC he was ultimately held responsible.
As for the Shah, he was responsible for his own corruption and revolt against his rule, and Carter himself was on the side of the revolutionaries, so they should have been friendly to him rather than stabbing him in the back. He misread them,
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I liked Carter but he exhibited what I later observed with some in the computer technology area where I spend my career. Folks who were so into the details of a matter that they couldn't see the forest for the trees. Thus, they couldn't lead.
frigidweirdo
Diamond Member
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You think Reagan had anything to do with the whole situation? Just because it ended the day he became president, doesn't mean all the work to get the hostages released had anything to do with Reagan.
It's typical of people trying to make square pegs fit in round holes.
DudleySmith
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Reagan liked cutting deals with terrorists. And drug cartels as well.
DudleySmith
Diamond Member
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I can add the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan made him look weak as well.
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