want sustained happiness, participate in a religion

[tyroneweaver]

Want sustained happiness Get religion study suggests - The Washington Post

you'd think gov. would encourage this kind of behavior instead of suppressing it.

 

[Bonzi]

If you are living for something other than yourself, you will be happier.
That's why people that are deeply committed to their religion are happier.

 

[Derideo_Te]

"The researchers noted that it is unclear whether the benefits of participating in a religious organization are connected to being in the religious community, or to the faith itself."

 

[BluePhantom]

"The researchers noted that it is unclear whether the benefits of participating in a religious organization are connected to being in the religious community, or to the faith itself."

It's an interesting point of distinction. I would be curious to see how it breaks down between people who follow an independent faith vs.those who follow an organized religion.

 

[Derideo_Te]

"The researchers noted that it is unclear whether the benefits of participating in a religious organization are connected to being in the religious community, or to the faith itself."

It's an interesting point of distinction. I would be curious to see how it breaks down between people who follow an independent faith vs.those who follow an organized religion.

Me too. I am generally a positive person and have taken steps to remove negative influences from my life and that of my loved ones. I am happier for having done so.

Those in organized religions have less control over their faith than those who follow independent faith so given my own experience I would expect those who have greater control to be happier.

And yes, that is backed up by workplace studies where workers with more control over their jobs are happier than those without any control so that is not just my personal opinion.

The key to happiness is how much control you have over your own life. The greater the control the happier you are IMO.

How that translates into religious communities and/or faith is above my pay grade to determine.

 

[BluePhantom]

"The researchers noted that it is unclear whether the benefits of participating in a religious organization are connected to being in the religious community, or to the faith itself."

It's an interesting point of distinction. I would be curious to see how it breaks down between people who follow an independent faith vs.those who follow an organized religion.

Me too. I am generally a positive person and have taken steps to remove negative influences from my life and that of my loved ones. I am happier for having done so.

Those in organized religions have less control over their faith than those who follow independent faith so given my own experience I would expect those who have greater control to be happier.

And yes, that is backed up by workplace studies where workers with more control over their jobs are happier than those without any control so that is not just my personal opinion.

The key to happiness is how much control you have over your own life. The greater the control the happier you are IMO.

How that translates into religious communities and/or faith is above my pay grade to determine.

That would be my assumption as well. I know many people who adhere to strict organized religious doctrine and find themselves frequently annoyed because they disagree with the teachings of the Church. That is understandably frustrating. I mean if you follow the beat of your own religious drum and find yourself annoyed by the teachings of your church, you have much bigger problems to deal with. My guess is that independent practitioners are happier than followers of an organized structure, but that's just a logical guess.

It also happens to fall inline with the Tao Te Ching and observations of happiness between adherents of Taoism (who are usually pretty content) vs adherents of Confucianism (who are usually miserable). So between the workplace studies and the differences between the unhappy, rigid Confucianists and the content, flexible Taoists, I would say that our assumption is probably correct.

 

[Thunderbird]

More studies:

Religious People Happier and Healthier Claims Study Human Science World Report

Aging Religion and Health by Angus Deaton SSRN

Religions may offer a caring community and a noble purpose.

 

[BluePhantom]

Well I would speculate in two areas that pop into my mind where theists have a "happiness advantage" over non-theists. The first is in the human sense of belonging. People want to "belong" and they want to be accepted for their beliefs and for who they are. Organized religions offer a large, structured community where people of like minds can find that sense of belonging. Sometimes the community can be destructive as well, but so can any community. Even for a person, such as myself, who tends to freelance it and doesn't participate in an organized religious community, there remains that sense even when practicing alone. There is comfort in knowing that when I read scripture to find comfort, wisdom, or understanding, that millions of people have done the same thing for thousands of years. That provides a core place that satisfies that human need for belonging that non-theists do not enjoy. Not that they can't find it elsewhere, of course, but I would argue that they would struggle to find one that offers the same sense of community on such a grand scale.

Second is the ability to "give it to God". Non-theists laugh at this often, but in truth it can be a great stress reliever when facing issues that are beyond one's control. Giving it to God probably isn't the best strategy when dealing with an issues that one can take care of themselves, but in life we all face times of enormous stress wherein we have no ability to impact the outcome. Perhaps you hear that your company has hit hard times and there will be mass layoffs next week. Perhaps a friend is sick in the hospital. Perhaps you are waiting on lab results regarding a health related issue that frightens you. Situations of this nature are times when our stress levels skyrocket. It makes it difficult to concentrate and it leads to a lot of unhappiness. There is something remarkably comforting and stress-relieving in saying "Lord, this is too much for me to think about. I am putting this one in your hands and I will go with whatever you decide or whatever happens." That outlet is something that non-theists don't have to rely upon when dealing with issues that are beyond their control. They may find something else or some other way to remove that stress (and perhaps they will be so kind as to educate me about what that is), but I would argue that whatever it is they find, it might relieve some physical or emotional stresses on a temporary basis but it will not provide them with a sense of spiritual peace.

Anyhow...just some thoughts on that

 

[Derideo_Te]

That provides a core place that satisfies that human need for belonging that non-theists do not enjoy. Not that they can't find it elsewhere, of course, but I would argue that they would struggle to find one that offers the same sense of community on such a grand scale.

What difference does the scale make when all you need is a "sense of community"? But let's look at a few of the other available options of belonging to a sense of community that have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

Your immediate/extended family.
Your neighborhood.
Your local schools, libraries, sporting events, shops, etc.
Your sense of patriotism.
Belonging to a team of any kind.
Working at a homeless shelter, soup kitchen, food pantry.
Volunteering for things like Habitat for Humanity.
Joining a protest or a parade.

Yes, I could go on but by now I think you get the picture that there are many other options out there besides religion.

That outlet is something that non-theists don't have to rely upon when dealing with issues that are beyond their control. They may find something else or some other way to remove that stress (and perhaps they will be so kind as to educate me about what that is), but I would argue that whatever it is they find, it might relieve some physical or emotional stresses on a temporary basis but it will not provide them with a sense of spiritual peace.

Seriously?

Non-theists have no alternatives to "spiritual peace" that you can only get with religion?

Ever heard of yoga, massage, Tai chi, meditation, aroma therapy, watching a movie, making love, going for a walk, playing with your dog, talking to a friend, etc, etc?

Yes, there are plenty of perfectly good ways to relieve physical and emotional stress without ever having to go anywhere near religion.

But let's put what you claim to be a "stress reliever" into context from an outsider's perspective. What you described above is nothing more than a "spiritual crutch" for those who lack the means to cope with life. Yes, billions pf people do make use of it on a daily basis but that doesn't alter the fact that it is just a convenient way to ignore a situation that should probably be dealt with, but instead it is just an escape from personal responsibility by dumping it on an imaginary parent figure.

Does that sound like harsh criticism? It most probably does but the truth is often hard to swallow.

Dealing with your problems makes you a better person IMO. "Putting it in God's hands" means you remain an emotional child who needs an adult to take care of them.

We do ourselves a disservice when we don't deal with our own problems, no matter how enormous or frightening they might appear to be. Yes, it can be scary dealing with something you have never experienced before. But dealing with it makes you stronger and yes, that is not just my opinion.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Religion plays a large part in my life. The more I avoid religion, the happier I am.

 

[BluePhantom]

That provides a core place that satisfies that human need for belonging that non-theists do not enjoy. Not that they can't find it elsewhere, of course, but I would argue that they would struggle to find one that offers the same sense of community on such a grand scale.

What difference does the scale make when all you need is a "sense of community"? But let's look at a few of the other available options of belonging to a sense of community that have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

Your immediate/extended family.
Your neighborhood.
Your local schools, libraries, sporting events, shops, etc.
Your sense of patriotism.
Belonging to a team of any kind.
Working at a homeless shelter, soup kitchen, food pantry.
Volunteering for things like Habitat for Humanity.
Joining a protest or a parade.

Yes, I could go on but by now I think you get the picture that there are many other options out there besides religion.

Yes all those things apply and can provide a sense of community and support. I would argue though that religion (when used properly - I need to stress that) has as one of it's primary purposes the goal of providing a sense of peace, inner security, and comfort to the overall lives of the practitioner. Belonging to a team may provide that, but the effect will be specific to the function of the team. Volunteering can certainly provide a sense of community and a sense of purpose and it's just generally a good thing to do, but does it give one's overall life a sense of completion? For some perhaps, but I would say that for most it probably doesn't. Furthermore, those things are often occasional. If one wishes to join a parade, there has to be a parade. If one wishes to help build a house for the needy, they have to wait until the opportunity arises around them. One can go to scripture or withdraw into God at a moment's notice, at any place, for any reason without the need for external opportunity.

Don't misunderstand. I didn't say non-theists could not find that sense of community. It's simply that with religion it is far more accessible

That outlet is something that non-theists don't have to rely upon when dealing with issues that are beyond their control. They may find something else or some other way to remove that stress (and perhaps they will be so kind as to educate me about what that is), but I would argue that whatever it is they find, it might relieve some physical or emotional stresses on a temporary basis but it will not provide them with a sense of spiritual peace.

Seriously?

Non-theists have no alternatives to "spiritual peace" that you can only get with religion?

Ever heard of yoga, massage, Tai chi, meditation, aroma therapy, watching a movie, making love, going for a walk, playing with your dog, talking to a friend, etc, etc?

Yes, there are plenty of perfectly good ways to relieve physical and emotional stress without ever having to go anywhere near religion.

Ahhh...but yoga, tai chi, even love making, etc all involve some form of spirituality. It may not be stressed as a "religion" so to speak but they all involve a spiritual connection to another person, the world around them, the Tao...whatever it may be. Personally, I would lump those in with forms of religious stress relief because they involve a spiritual element. But you must also understand my personal perspective. I do not see one who does not believe in God yet maintains a sense of spirituality to be a "true atheist". I don't know exactly how I would define them, but tending to one's spirituality is...to me personally...contrary to what I would consider "pure atheism" and would therefore fall under the umbrella of religion when defined loosely.

But let's put what you claim to be a "stress reliever" into context from an outsider's perspective. What you described above is nothing more than a "spiritual crutch" for those who lack the means to cope with life. Yes, billions pf people do make use of it on a daily basis but that doesn't alter the fact that it is just a convenient way to ignore a situation that should probably be dealt with, but instead it is just an escape from personal responsibility by dumping it on an imaginary parent figure.

Does that sound like harsh criticism? It most probably does but the truth is often hard to swallow.

Dealing with your problems makes you a better person IMO. "Putting it in God's hands" means you remain an emotional child who needs an adult to take care of them.

We do ourselves a disservice when we don't deal with our own problems, no matter how enormous or frightening they might appear to be. Yes, it can be scary dealing with something you have never experienced before. But dealing with it makes you stronger and yes, that is not just my opinion.

This is exactly what I expected to hear. Is it a crutch? Well if it is, then to an atheist it's a maddeningly effective one. Anytime I have said "pfft...this is too much for me. God I am handing this off to you" I have felt an indescribable sense of relief and comfort and I don't worry about it anymore. Now as I said, this should be reserved for times of stress wherein one has no control of the outcome. It has nothing to do with solving one's problems. If one has the ability to solve it they should. If one has resentment they should go to a counsellor and learn to cope with it. If one has a drinking problem they should go to AA. If one's car breaks down they should go to a mechanic or learn to fix it themselves. Those are not the things I am talking about

Take my previous example of a person who hears that there will be a mass layoff at his place of employment in a week. Now all week, he is going to have to sit there and wonder if his job is safe. In reality, there isn't much he can do about it. He can lobby on his behalf or try to talk to the bosses or perhaps start looking for another job just in case he gets cut, but in reality his security rests in the hands of others and he has little to no control over the outcome. That's a great time for a person of faith to "give it to God". Is it a crutch? I don't think so. In my view, a crutch is trying to relieve that stress by drinking or taking drugs or engaging in destructive behaviors such as having an affair or getting into a fight or gambling or what have you.

I ask you....which is healthier in that situation? Giving it to God or giving it to the bottle?

Ok DT...so these studies show that theists are generally happier than non-theists. Let's just assume the studies are accurate. That means then that religion is offering something to their adherents that non-theists are not being provided with. What do you think that might be?

 

[Taz]

I think they meant sustained delusion makes one happy.

 

[BluePhantom]

I think they meant sustained delusion makes one happy.

You really have a hard on for people of faith and faith in general don't you? Bad experience in your youth?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Ok DT...so these studies show that theists are generally happier than non-theists. Let's just assume the studies are accurate. That means then that religion is offering something to their adherents that non-theists are not being provided with. What do you think that might be?

Making that assumption takes an act of faith.

If those polls are correct then there must be some basis which can be determined for that to be the case. But the pollsters could not provide said basis.

Let me pose this instead. Pollster calls up and says they are doing a survey and asks if you will participate. You agree and they ask you some demographic background first such as male/female, age, zip code, religion, married/single, # of children, etc. Then they ask questions such as are you employed/retired, do you drink, do you play sports, do you attend church regularly, how happy are you with your life on a scale of 1-10, etc?

Sounds reasonable, right?

Except that it isn't reasonable because it set an expectation right up front.

You already answered that you were a theist and when it came to how often you go to church at least half the respondents lie!

7 Startling Facts An Up Close Look at Church Attendance in America

Then when the survey got to the question about happiness the expectation is even greater. Religion is SUPPOSED to make you happy, right? Because you are one of the "saved", right? Given that we already know that 50% of the respondents already lied on the attendance question how many do you imagine are going to lie when it comes to the happiness question?

No, I don't know the answer and neither do you because no one has done a blind study without setting up these expectations.

However they have done another study that might give us a clue.

Does More Money Make You Happier Psychology Today

In essence people in wealthier nations are happier than people in poorer nations.

Who was polled in the original survey? If it was primarily people in wealthy nations where there are plenty of people who are well off (if not wealthy) and the majority belong to religions then what do you imagine the pollsters are going to conclude?

Here is what I take from that study. Non-theists are more realistic in my experience and not as self deluding. (Present company excepted. ) Therefore I think that the pollsters could not separate out the honest answers from the expectation answers in that survey and therefore the findings are suspect IMO.

People are just people, regardless of race, creed, gender, orientation, location, etc, etc. The average person is happy enough not to want to commit suicide. That has nothing to do with theism, just basic human nature.

 

[MDiver]

I'm old, quite happy and I don't believe in deities; never did. Didn't believe in them when I spent a career in the military either (which kind of counters the adage that, "there are no atheists in foxholes."