Voter Fraud, rare but...

Star

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Republicans are willing to spend millions of dollars to stop a "rare" occurrence but-----but the Republican led House-----the laziest House in history is to lazy to appropriate the money to clean up the voting machine mess - WTF?

The following excerpts are from Bipartisan presidential panel suggests ways to improve elections - latimes.com


"The Presidential Commission on Election Administration made its recommendations in a 112-page report to President Obama. The commission — led by longtime Washington attorneys Robert F. Bauer, a Democrat, and Benjamin L. Ginsberg, a Republican — declared that no one should wait more than 30 minutes to vote and warned of an "impending crisis" as electronic voting machines age."


"As for voter fraud, the commission concluded it is "rare, but when it does occur, absentee ballots are often the method of choice." It also urged state registrars to regularly update and cross-check voter lists with other states, a practice that would make rolls more accurate and less subject to fraud, the report said."
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OKTexas

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Republicans are willing to spend millions of dollars to stop a "rare" occurrence but-----but the Republican led House-----the laziest House in history is to lazy to appropriate the money to clean up the voting machine mess - WTF?

The following excerpts are from Bipartisan presidential panel suggests ways to improve elections - latimes.com


"The Presidential Commission on Election Administration made its recommendations in a 112-page report to President Obama. The commission — led by longtime Washington attorneys Robert F. Bauer, a Democrat, and Benjamin L. Ginsberg, a Republican — declared that no one should wait more than 30 minutes to vote and warned of an "impending crisis" as electronic voting machines age."


"As for voter fraud, the commission concluded it is "rare, but when it does occur, absentee ballots are often the method of choice." It also urged state registrars to regularly update and cross-check voter lists with other states, a practice that would make rolls more accurate and less subject to fraud, the report said."
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You're such a liar. From your link:

"The commission did not, however, call for more federal spending to update equipment."

States run elections, not the feds and it's up to them to update their systems when they think it necessary.
 
OP
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Republicans are willing to spend millions of dollars to stop a "rare" occurrence but-----but the Republican led House-----the laziest House in history is to lazy to appropriate the money to clean up the voting machine mess - WTF?

The following excerpts are from Bipartisan presidential panel suggests ways to improve elections - latimes.com


"The Presidential Commission on Election Administration made its recommendations in a 112-page report to President Obama. The commission — led by longtime Washington attorneys Robert F. Bauer, a Democrat, and Benjamin L. Ginsberg, a Republican — declared that no one should wait more than 30 minutes to vote and warned of an "impending crisis" as electronic voting machines age."


"As for voter fraud, the commission concluded it is "rare, but when it does occur, absentee ballots are often the method of choice." It also urged state registrars to regularly update and cross-check voter lists with other states, a practice that would make rolls more accurate and less subject to fraud, the report said."
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You're such a liar. From your link:

"The commission did not, however, call for more federal spending to update equipment."

States run elections, not the feds and it's up to them to update their systems when they think it necessary.

You know of course, you're breaking Republican God Ronald Reagan's plagiarized 11th commandment by dissing Mitt's lawyer -- "Simply put, their [voting machines] shelf life is about to expire, and so there's no federal money. There's no $3-billion appropriation on the horizon," said Ginsberg, speaking at a presentation later in the day. "That is going to be a problem every bit as great as what we swore after Florida would never happen again."
Why do you think Ben Ginsburg is lying to you?
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Clementine

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No one has investigated the real cheating. If you don't look, you won't find it.

Only fraudulent registrations, illegal voters and people voting twice will be caught and that is the least of the illegal voting problems. These are easy to spot and fairly rare, so the left uses this as their argument.

The real cheating is hard to spot because it looks legitimate. Only an intense and time-consuming investigation would uncover the mass cheating.

There are tons of ballots that go unused each election because the majority of legal registered voters don't bother to show up at the polls. What happens to those unused ballots? Dishonest poll workers could cast them and simply check off names of registered voters that don't show up. Any audit would show that the ballots were cast by legally registered voters.

This may explain the trunk load of ballots cast for Al Franken after the count was complete. The only way to find out if the unused ballots are being used by the poll workers or those counting the votes would be to call each person whose name was checked off and ask if they did indeed vote. The system currently allows easy cheating.

The best way to minimize it would be to update all voter rolls and have people re-register if they intend to vote. Those that don't vote likely won't bother. Most are registered through motor-voter registration and might not take the time otherwise. We need to eliminate the millions of unused ballots that could too easily be used by cheaters. Voter ID would not really be helpful because dishonest people involved in the voting process could still cheat.

There is a lot we could do to ensure that our voting process remains honest. Anyone against updating the rolls to delete deceased people, those who have moved or illegal aliens will continue to make false claims of voter suppression. There is a reason why liberals refuse to update the rolls and ensure that they are accurate. Registering to vote is easy and free. Liberals like motor voter because it guarantees valid registrations for millions who will never vote. Since registering is already the law, there shouldn't be any argument against making sure the information is accurate, so everyone should take time to re-register or allow their registration to expire if they don't ever vote. Only the legal voters are disenfranchised when cheating goes on.

Unless it can be verified that all the votes were cast by the actual people who were registered, no one can say for sure how much cheating goes on. I don't think the left wants anyone to look too close. Obama got 100% and even over 100% is some precincts. That is bullshit and clear evidence of cheating because those results are impossible.

So, stop claiming there is no cheating because no one has done a serious investigation. And stop claiming that the Repubs want to spend money since the article states the opposite of what you claim.
 

OKTexas

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Republicans are willing to spend millions of dollars to stop a "rare" occurrence but-----but the Republican led House-----the laziest House in history is to lazy to appropriate the money to clean up the voting machine mess - WTF?

The following excerpts are from Bipartisan presidential panel suggests ways to improve elections - latimes.com


"The Presidential Commission on Election Administration made its recommendations in a 112-page report to President Obama. The commission — led by longtime Washington attorneys Robert F. Bauer, a Democrat, and Benjamin L. Ginsberg, a Republican — declared that no one should wait more than 30 minutes to vote and warned of an "impending crisis" as electronic voting machines age."


"As for voter fraud, the commission concluded it is "rare, but when it does occur, absentee ballots are often the method of choice." It also urged state registrars to regularly update and cross-check voter lists with other states, a practice that would make rolls more accurate and less subject to fraud, the report said."
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You're such a liar. From your link:

"The commission did not, however, call for more federal spending to update equipment."[/COLOR

States run elections, not the feds and it's up to them to update their systems when they think it necessary.



You know of course, you're breaking Republican God Ronald Reagan's plagiarized 11th commandment by dissing Mitt's lawyer -- "Simply put, their [voting machines] shelf life is about to expire, and so there's no federal money. There's no $3-billion appropriation on the horizon," said Ginsberg, speaking at a presentation later in the day. "That is going to be a problem every bit as great as what we swore after Florida would never happen again."
Why do you think Ben Ginsburg is lying to you?
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Why is it you commies never understand that the federal government is not responsible for running elections, the states are and if they need new equipment it's up to them to pay for it. You can make yourself look like an ass saying otherwise, but it doesn't make it a fact because the article said:

"The commission did not, however, call for more federal spending to update equipment."

Argue with that.
 

Stephanie

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Yeah sure voter fraud is rare
 

Seawytch

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Republicans are willing to spend millions of dollars to stop a "rare" occurrence but-----but the Republican led House-----the laziest House in history is to lazy to appropriate the money to clean up the voting machine mess - WTF?

The following excerpts are from Bipartisan presidential panel suggests ways to improve elections - latimes.com


"The Presidential Commission on Election Administration made its recommendations in a 112-page report to President Obama. The commission — led by longtime Washington attorneys Robert F. Bauer, a Democrat, and Benjamin L. Ginsberg, a Republican — declared that no one should wait more than 30 minutes to vote and warned of an "impending crisis" as electronic voting machines age."


"As for voter fraud, the commission concluded it is "rare, but when it does occur, absentee ballots are often the method of choice." It also urged state registrars to regularly update and cross-check voter lists with other states, a practice that would make rolls more accurate and less subject to fraud, the report said."
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Most people don't remember George Bush's HAVA, but it mandated that states replace their voting machines and it gave them money to do it. Well, those machines are now reaching their shelf life and need to be replaced. The States don't have the money to do it.

What states really need to combat fraud, nobody is willing to spend the money on.
 

Freewill

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Republicans are willing to spend millions of dollars to stop a "rare" occurrence but-----but the Republican led House-----the laziest House in history is to lazy to appropriate the money to clean up the voting machine mess - WTF?

The following excerpts are from Bipartisan presidential panel suggests ways to improve elections - latimes.com


"The Presidential Commission on Election Administration made its recommendations in a 112-page report to President Obama. The commission — led by longtime Washington attorneys Robert F. Bauer, a Democrat, and Benjamin L. Ginsberg, a Republican — declared that no one should wait more than 30 minutes to vote and warned of an "impending crisis" as electronic voting machines age."


"As for voter fraud, the commission concluded it is "rare, but when it does occur, absentee ballots are often the method of choice." It also urged state registrars to regularly update and cross-check voter lists with other states, a practice that would make rolls more accurate and less subject to fraud, the report said."
.

Most people don't remember George Bush's HAVA, but it mandated that states replace their voting machines and it gave them money to do it. Well, those machines are now reaching their shelf life and need to be replaced. The States don't have the money to do it.

What states really need to combat fraud, nobody is willing to spend the money on.
I guess in the 8-10 years they have had the machines it never occurred to them that they would need to be replaced. Instead they counted on Daddy Warbuck to bail out the states. States run elections not the federal government. Needless to say the article says they are not asking or more federal money. But that didn't stop the OP from posting just the opposite or those on the left that continue in that vein.
 

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No one has investigated the real cheating. If you don't look, you won't find it.

Only fraudulent registrations, illegal voters and people voting twice will be caught and that is the least of the illegal voting problems. These are easy to spot and fairly rare, so the left uses this as their argument.

The real cheating is hard to spot because it looks legitimate. Only an intense and time-consuming investigation would uncover the mass cheating.

There are tons of ballots that go unused each election because the majority of legal registered voters don't bother to show up at the polls. What happens to those unused ballots? Dishonest poll workers could cast them and simply check off names of registered voters that don't show up. Any audit would show that the ballots were cast by legally registered voters.

This may explain the trunk load of ballots cast for Al Franken after the count was complete. The only way to find out if the unused ballots are being used by the poll workers or those counting the votes would be to call each person whose name was checked off and ask if they did indeed vote. The system currently allows easy cheating.

The best way to minimize it would be to update all voter rolls and have people re-register if they intend to vote. Those that don't vote likely won't bother. Most are registered through motor-voter registration and might not take the time otherwise. We need to eliminate the millions of unused ballots that could too easily be used by cheaters. Voter ID would not really be helpful because dishonest people involved in the voting process could still cheat.

There is a lot we could do to ensure that our voting process remains honest. Anyone against updating the rolls to delete deceased people, those who have moved or illegal aliens will continue to make false claims of voter suppression. There is a reason why liberals refuse to update the rolls and ensure that they are accurate. Registering to vote is easy and free. Liberals like motor voter because it guarantees valid registrations for millions who will never vote. Since registering is already the law, there shouldn't be any argument against making sure the information is accurate, so everyone should take time to re-register or allow their registration to expire if they don't ever vote. Only the legal voters are disenfranchised when cheating goes on.

Unless it can be verified that all the votes were cast by the actual people who were registered, no one can say for sure how much cheating goes on. I don't think the left wants anyone to look too close. Obama got 100% and even over 100% is some precincts. That is bullshit and clear evidence of cheating because those results are impossible.

So, stop claiming there is no cheating because no one has done a serious investigation. And stop claiming that the Repubs want to spend money since the article states the opposite of what you claim.
It always tickles me when there is an investigation into malfeasance by an organization. Usually (not always) the only source for the investigation is the organization being investigated. So the investigations are hamstrung to start with if the malfeasance is poor record keeping. Usually if the organization is guilty of something in Department A, you'll find poor practices in Departments B, C, and D as well. Government agencies usually do not have one super competent operation on the first floor and knobs everywhere else; there is a recession to the mean which explains why it takes 3 hours of standing in line and something like eleven seconds to transfer a title to a car after a 3 hour wait.

Now so I don't look like a liberal bitching about the GOP measures; let me state that I fully endorse the State asking for ID before I cast my ballot. My vote is sacred and I don't want anyone posing as Candy Corn to cast it; So feel free to ask for my ID is my view. If they are going to make me register to vote, they should make me present registration to cast the ballot; otherwise why register at all?

My feeling is that most "voter fraud" (and likely a large % of fraud in total) is simply errors. You go to the wrong polling place or the worker gives you the wrong ballot or you're not the same Jane Doe that was recorded as having just voted.

I think it's somewhat sad that some of my liberal friends here insist that somehow asking for everyone's ID is tantamount to racism. If you can't get an ID that is offered free of charge or obligation...you're not a active citizen. Now the Constitution doesn't require you to be one of course but if the State can require voter registration, then it has set up a system that should be able to verify the registrant is presenting herself at the time of casting a ballot.
 

blastoff

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Had a father-in-law up to his eyeballs in corruption with the Daley dimocrat machine in Chicago and suburban Cook County. A private businessman who'd bid on city/county contracts in amounts he was told to submit so there'd be plenty of cash to spread around under the table to various pols after he'd win the rigged sealed bid contest. It was a game by which he and those getting the kickbacks made lots of money.

He hated election days though because he was required to 'pay' for being such an insider by driving all over the city/county to vote under a slew of aliases he'd be given, and it would take him all day he had so many stops to make.

He did it for years and I often wondered how many others the machine had on their 'payroll' just like him?
 
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Toro

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"As for voter fraud, the commission concluded it is "rare, but when it does occur, absentee ballots are often the method of choice."
I expect a full 57-state assault against absentee ballot fraud by the Republican Party.

And now, I start holding my breath.
 

rightwinger

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Murder is rare.. but we prosecute it and go out of our way to get those who commit it

Securities fraud too

MANY crimes are rare

But they are still crimes...
 
OP
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No one has investigated the real cheating. If you don't look, you won't find it.

Only fraudulent registrations, illegal voters and people voting twice will be caught and that is the least of the illegal voting problems. These are easy to spot and fairly rare, so the left uses this as their argument.

The real cheating is hard to spot because it looks legitimate. Only an intense and time-consuming investigation would uncover the mass cheating.

There are tons of ballots that go unused each election because the majority of legal registered voters don't bother to show up at the polls. What happens to those unused ballots? Dishonest poll workers could cast them and simply check off names of registered voters that don't show up. Any audit would show that the ballots were cast by legally registered voters.

This may explain the trunk load of ballots cast for Al Franken after the count was complete. The only way to find out if the unused ballots are being used by the poll workers or those counting the votes would be to call each person whose name was checked off and ask if they did indeed vote. The system currently allows easy cheating.

The best way to minimize it would be to update all voter rolls and have people re-register if they intend to vote. Those that don't vote likely won't bother. Most are registered through motor-voter registration and might not take the time otherwise. We need to eliminate the millions of unused ballots that could too easily be used by cheaters. Voter ID would not really be helpful because dishonest people involved in the voting process could still cheat.

There is a lot we could do to ensure that our voting process remains honest. Anyone against updating the rolls to delete deceased people, those who have moved or illegal aliens will continue to make false claims of voter suppression. There is a reason why liberals refuse to update the rolls and ensure that they are accurate. Registering to vote is easy and free. Liberals like motor voter because it guarantees valid registrations for millions who will never vote. Since registering is already the law, there shouldn't be any argument against making sure the information is accurate, so everyone should take time to re-register or allow their registration to expire if they don't ever vote. Only the legal voters are disenfranchised when cheating goes on.

Unless it can be verified that all the votes were cast by the actual people who were registered, no one can say for sure how much cheating goes on. I don't think the left wants anyone to look too close. Obama got 100% and even over 100% is some precincts. That is bullshit and clear evidence of cheating because those results are impossible.

So, stop claiming there is no cheating because no one has done a serious investigation. And stop claiming that the Repubs want to spend money since the article states the opposite of what you claim.

Think about it - if your claim of no investigations is true, why aren't you asking why-----why aren't Republican controlled states launching robust investigations to prove their point, what could they possibly be afraid of?
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Kosh

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The far left talking point is that voter fraud, like the far left brain, does not exist.

So why doesn't the far left prove that the elections are on the up and up?

Should be easy to prove especially with all the propaganda they push.
 
OP
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The far left talking point is that voter fraud, like the far left brain, does not exist.

So why doesn't the far left prove that the elections are on the up and up?

Should be easy to prove especially with all the propaganda they push.


Prove a negative? -pewsh!-
Proponents of voter suppression laws choose to whine about their strawman "voter fraud" being a big problem but-----but, if "voter fraud" is a big deal, my question stands - why aren't Republicans appropriating lots-o-taxpayer dollars to prove it or-----or put another way, why do Republicans want to pass laws that will suppress votes but are as scared as a deer in your headlights when called out to prove it's worth the taxing and spending.

If Republicans are so hot to trot about investigating what Mitt Romney's campaign attorney, Benjamin Ginsburg says is a rare occurrence - go for it but-----but use your own money or-----or use the money your/a Republican legislature raises in taxes or-----or the Republican House can raise taxes to fund what Benjamin Ginsburg calls a "rare" occurence.



- Rolling Stone: "not only is voter fraud not rampant – it's virtually nonexistent"

Rolling Stone debunks all the Republican ‘voter fraud’ myths being used as an excuse to suppress the vote with ID laws on Election Day:

“But here’s the thing: Not only is voter fraud not rampant – it’s virtually nonexistent. The iron-clad word on the subject comes from the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law, whose 2007 report, ‘The Truth About Voter Fraud,’ sorts through thousands of allegations going back to the 1990s in the most in-depth voter fraud study ever undertaken. The bottom line, confirmed by all subsequent research: ”Usually, only a tiny portion of the claimed illegality is substantiated — and most of the remainder is either nothing more than speculation or has been conclusively debunked.””
  1. Double voting – In Missouri in 2000 and 2002, hundreds of voters were alleged to have voted twice either within the state or once in Kansas and once in Missouri. Reporters followed up on 18 Kansas City; 13 were shown to result from clerical errors. In total, public sources backed up only four cases, for a documented fraud rate of 0.0003 percent
  2. Voting by Dead People – An investigation turned up only one instance, and even this was later found to have been an error: One Alan J. Mandel was alleged to have voted in 1998, despite having died in 1997. It turned out that another Alan J. Mandell (two “l”s) – very much alive – was the guy who’d voted, but election workers simply checked the wrong name off of their list.
  3. Voting With Fraudulent Addresses – In New Hampshire, a citizen became concerned because 88 individuals had registered with residences on property owned by Daniel Webster College. Further investigation revealed that all 88 were DW students living on college property.
  4. Voting by Convicted Felons — In 2000, Florida claimed that 5,643 ineligible persons with convictions actually voted in the general election. Upon investigation, it turned out the data included eligible citizens with misdemeanors, citizens with convictions after their valid vote, and eligible voters whose names and birthdates matched those of convicted felons.
  5. Voting by Noncitizens — In Washington in 2005, county officials were asked to investigate the citizenship status of 1,668 registered voters based on their “foreign-sounding names.” Not a single individual on the submitted list turned out to be a noncitizen.
  6. Registration Fraud — “Most reports of registration fraud do not actually claim that the fraud happens so that ineligible people can vote at the polls. Indeed, we are aware of no recent substantiated case in which registration fraud has resulted in fraudulent votes being cast.”
  7. Voting by Dogs — There is no typical case. Brennan found only two cases – ever – of ballots being submittted in the name of a dog: a ballot cast by “Duncan MacDonald” in 2006 and 2007 (but labeled “VOID” and signed with a paw print), and another cast by “Raku Bowman” in 2003 in a local election in Venice, California.
  8. Vote Buying — Vote buying is not fraud – it’s an illegal agreement between citizens, usually with the direct involvement of a candidate or campaign – and can’t be addressed by most of the remedies put forward to tackle fraud – photo ID laws, restrictions on registration, etc.
  9. Fraud by Election Officials — Fraud by election officials does happen, but, like vote-buying, it is not a form of voter fraud. If election officials are willing to break the law, rules designed to restrict voting won’t stop them.
Based on Clementine's post, Clemintine doesn't know the difference between election fraud and voter fraud/impersonation -- please 'splain if can dude/dudette.
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