CDZ USMB POLL: Woman shot, killed by two-year-old son - Who is responsible for this woman's death?

[Kat]

The 2 year old will be told when older that he/she killed his/her own mother and have to live with it for the rest of their life. Who's responsible for that.

The two year old may or may not even remember it. How much do you remember from age 2? If they told in the right way it may not affect them badly. On the flip side, it is possible they will remember it.

Again, it is a sad tragedy.

 

[320 Years of History]

The 2 year old will be told when older that he/she killed his/her own mother and have to live with it for the rest of their life. Who's responsible for that.

The two year old may or may not even remember it. How much do you remember from age 2? If they told in the right way it may not affect them badly. On the flip side, it is possible they will remember it.

Again, it is a sad tragedy.

You know, I wondered whether a two year old would remember that event or not. I have to imagine it'd be pretty traumatic to have been party to that event, regardless of one's role as shooter or nearby observer. I wonder if it's sufficiently disturbing that it'd permanently etch on a two year old's memory. I don't know....

I do know that I don't recall anything from when I was two, at least not in such a way that I equate it with the time I was that age. I can remember looking at clouds from an airplane window, and I know now that I was three at the time, but I know that only because of our family photo albums and such.

I think, however, the real trauma for a two year old who shot its mother would come when they are older and can understand what they did. There too, though, I'm just speculating.

 

[Kat]

The 2 year old will be told when older that he/she killed his/her own mother and have to live with it for the rest of their life. Who's responsible for that.

The two year old may or may not even remember it. How much do you remember from age 2? If they told in the right way it may not affect them badly. On the flip side, it is possible they will remember it.

Again, it is a sad tragedy.

You know, I wondered whether a two year old would remember that event or not. I have to imagine it'd be pretty traumatic to have been party to that event, regardless of one's role as shooter or nearby observer. I wonder if it's sufficiently disturbing that it'd permanently etch on a two year old's memory. I don't know....

I do know that I don't recall anything from when I was two, at least not in such a way that I equate it with the time I was that age. I can remember looking at clouds from an airplane window, and I know now that I was three at the time, but I know that only because of our family photo albums and such.

I think, however, the real trauma for a two year old who shot its mother would come when they are older and can understand what they did. There too, though, I'm just speculating.

I tend to agree with you.
Having said that, I think a lot of our ''memories'', are from being told, or hearing the same story a lot of time, and seeing pictures.

With this child, it is going to depend on how the one telling him handles it.

This is a tough one.

 

[there4eyeM]

Is this a joke? What question could there be? A gun doesn't 'go off', it is fired. A gun with no bullet in the chamber can't be fired. A semi-auto pistol with one in the chamber is a stupid way to carry unless entering into combat. A revolver would be difficult for a two-year-old to manipulate in such a way as to fire it. In any case, anyone carrying a loaded firearm should be held legally responsible for any mishap and prosecuted severely.
'Rights' require responsibility.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

This happened in December 2014, any particular reason we're discussing it almost sixteen months after the fact?

Her "crime" was to not hold on to her purse, right? She probably has a habit of placing it in the cart. You can't control that all the time.

This perhaps the most ignorant comment in this thread.

If you put a gun in your purse, you GOD damn well better control it all the time.


The mother is to blame. If anyone disagrees, you're just plain wrong.

Read the thread. I commented that it was a vitally important lesson for all gun owners that carry to learn.

People make mistakes. That doesn't necessarily make them bad people.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

The gun owner is ultimately responsible for the disposition of their firearm at all times. This is part of the reason I don't believe in off-body carry. It's much less secure than carrying on your person.

Only women can carry off-body. Is this an indictment of women?

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

How many tragedies will this incident prevent in the future? Possibly thousands if it becomes household information. Considering it happened at Wal-Mart, it has a great chance.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

The 2 year old will be told when older that he/she killed his/her own mother and have to live with it for the rest of their life. Who's responsible for that.

The child will suffer infinitely more and share the guilt if his or her mother is made into some kind of villain.

 

[320 Years of History]

How many tragedies will this incident prevent in the future? Possibly thousands if it becomes household information. Considering it happened at Wal-Mart, it has a great chance.

I don't think that's a fair remark, but it may be. Even so, it did make me laugh. TY.

 

[320 Years of History]

The 2 year old will be told when older that he/she killed his/her own mother and have to live with it for the rest of their life. Who's responsible for that.

The child will suffer infinitely more and share the guilt if his or her mother is made into some kind of villain.

The woman wasn't a villain, or at least the details thus far shared don't indicate she was.

She was certainly careless to at least some degree. How so exactly is not something I can assert with confidence, but there are several possibilities.

 

[oldsoul]

(Reuters) - A woman was accidentally shot and killed at a Walmart store in northern Idaho on Tuesday when her 2-year-old son pulled a loaded handgun from her purse that then went off, a county sheriff said.

The 29-year-old woman was shopping at a Walmart in Hayden, Idaho, with the toddler seated in her shopping cart when the incident occurred, Kootenai County Sheriff Ben Wolfinger said in a written statement.

Who (if anyone) is responsible for this poor woman's death?

As a gun owner/carrier you, and you alone, are reponsible for said gun and what happens to/with it. For whatever reason this woman irresponsibly left a gun within the reach of a toddler. As a father of a similarily aged child, I would never allow such a thing to happen. Heck, I wouldn't even allow my child to see a gun if I could help it. Not at that age. There is noone alive that is responsible for this tragedy.
Side note:
How would you veiw this differently if it took place at home? Say the gun was on a coffe table, loaded, and within easy reach of the child. Would that make a difference for you? I, personally, see no difference.

 

[2aguy]

(Reuters) - A woman was accidentally shot and killed at a Walmart store in northern Idaho on Tuesday when her 2-year-old son pulled a loaded handgun from her purse that then went off, a county sheriff said.

The 29-year-old woman was shopping at a Walmart in Hayden, Idaho, with the toddler seated in her shopping cart when the incident occurred, Kootenai County Sheriff Ben Wolfinger said in a written statement.

Who (if anyone) is responsible for this poor woman's death?

The woman for not securing her weapon properly.

 

[2aguy]

Kinda think something is being made out of nothing. Overall it was an accident. We all know the definition of that.

So you are saying the woman who was killed by a 2 year old, carrying a loaded pistol with the safety off and the hammer down, is a perfectly responsible gun owner.

Fascinating.

How do you know which pistol she had?

 

[2aguy]

Kinda think something is being made out of nothing. Overall it was an accident. We all know the definition of that.

So you are saying the woman who was killed by a 2 year old, carrying a loaded pistol with the safety off and the hammer down, is a perfectly responsible gun owner.

Fascinating.

If we didn't have these tragic mistakes, gun owners everywhere wouldn't learn from her lesson.

Or if we required people to know wtf they're doing when they own a gun, this wouldn't happen. Instead it happens all the time.

No....it doesn't happen all the time.....

In 2013 there were over 320,000,000 guns in private hands.....how many accidental gun deaths were there....505. In the entire country.....

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Here is some actual perspective on the issue...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Here are the stats on some common types of death....it would be better to start a crusade to teach people how to walk upright...and save them from falling deaths...you would save more lives.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....in a country with 74.2 million children in 2010...

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39

Total: 69 ( in a country of 320 million people)
Gun Suicide: 21,175
Non gun suicide: 19,974



http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
So...accidental gun deaths have been coming down as more people own and carry guns for self defense....now 12.8 million people actually carry guns for self defense......on their person, and the accidental gun death rate is going down, not up....

 

[2aguy]

Kinda think something is being made out of nothing. Overall it was an accident. We all know the definition of that.

So you are saying the woman who was killed by a 2 year old, carrying a loaded pistol with the safety off and the hammer down, is a perfectly responsible gun owner.

Fascinating.

It appears you are looking to fight. No thanks.

SO You think she did it on purpose so her child would kill her. Alrighty.

Do you think she was responsible?

Have you ever taken a gun course?

I think it was an accident. I can't find where it said the safety was off and hammer down.
No, I have not taken a gun course, but am giving my opinion off of what I am reading. And common sense.
Even I would know not to have the safety off and hammer down. Is that how it was?

Not all guns have an external safety......and do we know if it was a revolver, which would not have any safety, or a semi auto?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Kinda think something is being made out of nothing. Overall it was an accident. We all know the definition of that.

So you are saying the woman who was killed by a 2 year old, carrying a loaded pistol with the safety off and the hammer down, is a perfectly responsible gun owner.

Fascinating.

How do you know which pistol she had?

Would you say she was being a responsible gun owner?

 

[Anathema]

Only women can carry off-body. Is this an indictment of women?

No. I've seen guys carry in a fabny pack, briefcase or other purse-like object.

Tbough I must also say I know many women who carry on-body.

 

[OldLady]

The child could have killed a bystander instead of the woman, for which she would have clearly been responsible.

I doubt a jury would convict her of anything.

Probably not, seeing as how she's dead.

 

[OldLady]

The gun owner is ultimately responsible for the disposition of their firearm at all times. This is part of the reason I don't believe in off-body carry. It's much less secure than carrying on your person.

If I carried a gun and had a toddler, I'd have it in a holster on my body where little fingers couldn't get at it. I also wouldn't own a gun without a safety if I had a little one.

 

[Arianrhod]

This conversation is fascinating, especially the "it's no one's fault" part.

"I mean, like, it just sorta kinda happened. Or maybe it was an Act of God. Yeah, that's it. Jesus told that woman to carry a gun in her purse and not have sense enough to realize a two-year-old can get into anything. Yup, yup, that's it. It's Jesus' fault. Like getting struck by lightning. Coulda happened to anyone."

Anyone so terrified of life she has to be packing on a trip to the grocery store, anyway.

And gunlubbers wonder why those of us who live our entire lives without carrying look askance at your endless rationalizations.

If anyone's arguing "it's the gun's fault," it's not us.

Yup, that gun just jumped out of that woman's purse all by its own self and forced its way into that toddler's hands and compelled him to fire it. Yup, yup, yup, that's what happened, all right.

God help that child when he's old enough to find out what happened to his Mommy.