CDZ How Does Sanders Plan to Pay for Free College Education?

[JimBowie1958]

Some useful data from here.

Bernie Sanders on Education

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/04/nyregion/across-europe-an-outcry-over-paying-for-college.html

This Country Just Abolished College Tuition Fees

England Student Debt Unprecedented as Government Shifts Funding
Statements by Sanders onhow he plans to pay for this free education.

My proposal is to put a speculation tax on wall street, raise very substantial sums of money, not only make public colleges and universities tuition-free, but also substantially lower interest rates on student debt. You have families out there paying 6 percent, 8 percent, 10 percent on student debt, refinance their homes at 3 percent.
.....
SANDERS: No, it is an extraordinary investment for this country. Germany & many other countries do it already. This is revolutionary for education in America. It will give hope to millions of young people.

Q: And you want to have the states pay for about 1/3 of this $70 billion plan, correct?

SANDERS: Yes. Bottom line here is, in the year 2015, we should look at a college degree the same way we looked at a high school degree 50 or 60 years ago. If you want to make it into the middle class, the bottom line now, is in America, in the year 2015, any person who has the ability and the desire should be able to get an education, college education, regardless of the income of his or her family. And we must substantially lower, as my legislation does, interest rates on student debt.
.....

On Education: Two years free tuition at state colleges. Reform student loans.

Sanders would provide $18 billion to state governments to allow them to cut tuition at state colleges by 55 percent. And he would allow anyone paying off a student loan currently to refinance at a lower rate.
.....

So the best I can find so far is that Sanders wants to:
1. Give federal money, not much really, $18 billion to states to cut state tuitions in half.
2. Impose a 'Speculation Tax' on Wall Street. Dont see a problem with taking some whore and blow money away from these scoundrels.
3. Lower interest rates on existing student loans.

Not sure if he plans to make private colleges and Universities also free tuition or not.

We I putting this plan together, I would only offer free tuition for those who first went to a community college and then to a state college. For those who went to a state university for the full 4 years, I think I would offer then a package of grants, student work and interest free loans that allowed them to attend the school. This would give schools in the private sector an incentive to reduce costs to lure more students.

I would also ban the expenditure of any state run universities and colleges from major college sports programs, capping it in some fashion.

We need to return our colleges to first educating Americans and to not being profit driven.

Has anyone else obtained any other details of how Sanders plans to fund his free college idea?

 

[Agit8r]

Probably Pell Grants would become unnecessary. There is another $30+ billion freed up.

 

[Martin Eden Mercury]

Has anyone else obtained any other details of how Sanders plans to fund his free college idea?

Informed sources have told me that Sanders is going to pay for it all by taxing the heck out of the 3 or 5 members at usmb who happen to be in the top 1/10 of 1%

 

[iamwhatiseem]

How could it be paid for??
That's easy....just take one month worth of corporate welfare that this administrations gave out - and you could pay for everyone's college for a whole year.
So which is worse? Taking your money and giving it to Wall Street and big business...or to students?

 

[Alystyr]

Sanders does present some good points. Tuition has become ridiculous, and something does need to be done to bring it back in line.
However, I don't believe that everything should be "free" education-wise after high school. With high school being effectively free, and everyone having the opportunity to obtain a H.S. Diploma, the inherent value of said diploma (to both employers and graduates) has decreased. The same could eventually happen if college degrees were made as readily available - employers would start requiring Masters and Doctorate degrees from applicants instead of being satisfied with Associate and Bachelor degrees.
I wouldn't have a problem, though, with trade schools being free, and I'd possibly accept community colleges being free as well. Both of these institution types provide tangible, marketable skills and generally aren't as profit-oriented as major colleges and universities.

 

[OldLady]

Does anyone remember when doing a hitch with VISTA repaid some of your college loans? I think they still have some programs similar, since in our extremely under-served area, a lot of doctors come for two years and then high-tail it out. Paying back student loans, they say.
It kills two birds with one stone, instead of leeching off the rich. Maybe it couldn't work all by itself but I think it would be a good option if it were seriously expanded. We've got plenty of under-staffed programs all over this country that could use extra help.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Sanders does present some good points. Tuition has become ridiculous, and something does need to be done to bring it back in line.
However, I don't believe that everything should be "free" education-wise after high school. With high school being effectively free, and everyone having the opportunity to obtain a H.S. Diploma, the inherent value of said diploma (to both employers and graduates) has decreased. The same could eventually happen if college degrees were made as readily available - employers would start requiring Masters and Doctorate degrees from applicants instead of being satisfied with Associate and Bachelor degrees.
I wouldn't have a problem, though, with trade schools being free, and I'd possibly accept community colleges being free as well. Both of these institution types provide tangible, marketable skills and generally aren't as profit-oriented as major colleges and universities.

That is already happening.
As usual, when the government gets involved - it f*cks everything up.
And the U.S. government has significantly diluted the value of a degree, as well as damn near ended the value of trade schools.

 

[OldLady]

Sanders does present some good points. Tuition has become ridiculous, and something does need to be done to bring it back in line.
However, I don't believe that everything should be "free" education-wise after high school. With high school being effectively free, and everyone having the opportunity to obtain a H.S. Diploma, the inherent value of said diploma (to both employers and graduates) has decreased. The same could eventually happen if college degrees were made as readily available - employers would start requiring Masters and Doctorate degrees from applicants instead of being satisfied with Associate and Bachelor degrees.
I wouldn't have a problem, though, with trade schools being free, and I'd possibly accept community colleges being free as well. Both of these institution types provide tangible, marketable skills and generally aren't as profit-oriented as major colleges and universities.

New York State's BOCES program allows students to leave high school ready to be employed in a trade at entry level. A lot of kids aren't academically inclined and it's all we can do to get them to sit their asses through 12 years of book work. Good vocational programs that actually prepare kids for employment would help in a lot of ways.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Sanders does present some good points. Tuition has become ridiculous, and something does need to be done to bring it back in line.
However, I don't believe that everything should be "free" education-wise after high school. With high school being effectively free, and everyone having the opportunity to obtain a H.S. Diploma, the inherent value of said diploma (to both employers and graduates) has decreased. The same could eventually happen if college degrees were made as readily available - employers would start requiring Masters and Doctorate degrees from applicants instead of being satisfied with Associate and Bachelor degrees.
I wouldn't have a problem, though, with trade schools being free, and I'd possibly accept community colleges being free as well. Both of these institution types provide tangible, marketable skills and generally aren't as profit-oriented as major colleges and universities.

New York State's BOCES program allows students to leave high school ready to be employed in a trade at entry level. A lot of kids aren't academically inclined and it's all we can do to get them to sit their asses through 12 years of book work. Good vocational programs that actually prepare kids for employment would help in a lot of ways.

See my post above yours.

 

[Fishlore]

Does anyone remember when doing a hitch with VISTA repaid some of your college loans? I think they still have some programs similar, since in our extremely under-served area, a lot of doctors come for two years and then high-tail it out. Paying back student loans, they say.
It kills two birds with one stone, instead of leeching off the rich. Maybe it couldn't work all by itself but I think it would be a good option if it were seriously expanded. We've got plenty of under-staffed programs all over this country that could use extra help.

Before VISTA there was NDEA student loans which could be paid back at 10% a year for teachng in an underserved area or specialty. It worked very well.

 

[320 Years of History]

Has anyone else obtained any other details of how Sanders plans to fund his free college idea?

• Summary of Sen. Sanders’ College for All Act
  
• How Bernie pays for his proposals - Bernie Sanders

 

[320 Years of History]

Bottom line here is, in the year 2015, we should look at a college degree the same way we looked at a high school degree 50 or 60 years ago.

I fully agree with this statement. Why? Because the U.S.' comparative advantage at this point in time is in intellectual capital, not physical capital, the way to make the most of that is to produce more intellectual capital. The only way to do that is to educate Americans.

Not sure if he plans to make private colleges and Universities also free tuition or not.

I would hope he would, but I can live with it if he does not. I think getting a good education is more important than from where one gets it. Public colleges and universities do a perfectly acceptable job educating students.

I would also ban the expenditure of any state run universities and colleges from major college sports programs, capping it in some fashion.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

We need to return our colleges to first educating Americans and to not being profit driven.

Red:
There may have been a time when education was the first priority of colleges and universities, but now it varies by school as to whether it is first a teaching or research institution. That said, whether one attends a predominantly research or teaching school isn't a matter of one being absolutely better at teaching than the other.

Added to that is the matter of talent. Teaching, at all levels, is in part a talent just as is proficiency with singing, shooting basketballs, etc. The talent as goes teaching is that of reading personalities well enough to be able to craft one's message(s) so that it is fully received (understood) in all its dimensions by every member in the audience, the students. I know from my own experience teaching that's not easy to do.

I can recall some students (I was a GA/TA during my two years in grad school) with whom I'd meet during my office hours it was "like pulling teeth" to bring them to a full degree of comprehension re: some of the concepts they needed to master to do well (get an A) in the course. I just had to keep trying different approaches until I found the one that worked for those individuals. Yet other students "got it" with the first approach I used. I'm pretty good at discerning when folks (groups or individuals) don't get what I'm communicating, but I'm less, perhaps by some measures not any, good at figuring out what mode/tactic of communication will work with any given individual, even less so if I barely know the person, which is most often so as go undergraduate college students and professors.

Though I have no specific data to support this, my guess, based only on my own experience, is that at a research university, one is best served by having grad students teach entry level courses (100 and 200 level classes, if you will) and having professors teach the higher level courses (300+) because the smaller class size at the higher levels makes it easier, particularly for naive and/or timid students, to develop something of a personal relationship with the professor. Make no mistake, if one goes to a prof or TA and in the course of developing the relationship the instructor learns a certain mode of communication works for you, s/he'll, if at all possible, incorporate that modality into their regular lecture approach. They'll do that mainly just to save you and themselves the time of your needing to meet with them singularly for that purpose.

Blue:
Few colleges and universities are profit driven in relation the quantity of colleges and universities there are in the U.S.

 

[JimBowie1958]

How could it be paid for??
That's easy....just take one month worth of corporate welfare that this administrations gave out - and you could pay for everyone's college for a whole year.
So which is worse? Taking your money and giving it to Wall Street and big business...or to students?

If the corporate welfare could be successfully diverted to paying for free higher education, I would be all for it.

Certainly students could use it more than the corporate whores that h ave nearly destroyed this nation.

My only problem with it is that I get the idea that this would also give the frederal government the right to say that a student CANNOT attend college as their grades are not high enough, or whatever. As things exist today, no matter how bad your high school grades were, you could get in at a community college for two years then transfer to a full four year school and not be turned down.

This might put an end to everyone going to college that wants to if it is on the Federal dime.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I would also ban the expenditure of any state run universities and colleges from major college sports programs, capping it in some fashion.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

I dont think that the money the Feds would give states under Sanders plan should go to universities with major athletic programs. Money is fungible and many schools have as their highest budget item their college sports programs, so I think that to be able to have their students get these funds directly is fine, but not the funding designed to lower tuition.

I dont think US tax payers should be on the hook for PEnn States football program or Louisville's Basketball, etc.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"How Does Sanders Plan to Pay for Free College Education?"

He doesn’t have a plan.

It’s one of many reasons why he won’t be the democratic nominee.

 

[Arianrhod]

Some useful data from here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/04/nyregion/across-europe-an-outcry-over-paying-for-college.html

2004, really?

Let's try to bring ourselves up to the present. Yanno, 2016?

On the Issues: It's Time to Make College Tuition Free and Debt Free

Discuss.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Has anyone else obtained any other details of how Sanders plans to fund his free college idea?

• Summary of Sen. Sanders’ College for All Act

Eliminate Undergraduate Tuition at 4-year Public Colleges and Universities.
This legislation would provide $47 billion per year to states to eliminate undergraduate tuition and fees at public colleges and universities. Today, total tuition at public colleges and universities amounts to about $70 billion per year. Under the College for All Act, the federal government would cover 67% of this cost, while the states would be responsible for the remaining 33% of the cost.

So, what if the state turns down the federal funds and says, 'No thank you?'

To qualify for federal funding, states must meet a number of requirements designed to protect students, ensure quality, and reduce ballooning costs. States will need to maintain spending on their higher education systems, on academic instruction, and on need-based financial aid. In addition, colleges and universities must reduce their reliance on low-paid adjunct faculty.

These seem like counter-proposals to each other, to lower costs while at the same time using more expensive professors. Seems kind of wishful thinking.

States would be able to use funding to increase academic opportunities for students, hire new faculty, and provide professional development opportunities for professors. No funding under this program may be used to fund administrator salaries, merit-based financial aid, or the construction of non-academic buildings like stadiums and student centers.

Yes! This states no noneducational spending, but what is to prevent the state from accepting $X in funding, then shifting that amount from academic expenses to athletics, then taking in the federal money to the academic activities?

• How Bernie pays for his proposals - Bernie Sanders

College for All: Sen. Sanders has proposed making public colleges and universities tuition-free and substantially reducing student debt, in a plan that would cost about $75 billion a year. Paid for by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculators that would generate about $300 billion in revenue.

Got that one, but I dont think that this is a very dynamic analysis. Over time the people taxed will leave the country and take their billions with them. This means that as more people register for college, there will be fewer Wall Street rich people to shake down for the tuition tax. More needs to be done to pay for this and to also address the flip side of the issue by lowering tuition costs.

But over all, I like Sanders plan and it is needful. We need to make sure that the graduates have jobs awaiting them, however and Sanders will keep the guest worker visas and so forth that already take up 75% of entry level STEM positions. So not sure how this works altogether.

Mostly I applaud his dedication to breaking up the Too Big To Fail Wall Street Banks and let the smaller regional banks compete for the various markets the Wall street banks completely dominate.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Some useful data from here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/04/nyregion/across-europe-an-outcry-over-paying-for-college.html

2004, really?

Let's try to bring ourselves up to the present. Yanno, 2016?

On the Issues: It's Time to Make College Tuition Free and Debt Free

Discuss.

Was just trying to give an over view of what other countries have been doing with tuitions, dude. No need to spasm.

 

[320 Years of History]

I would also ban the expenditure of any state run universities and colleges from major college sports programs, capping it in some fashion.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

I dont think that the money the Feds would give states under Sanders plan should go to universities with major athletic programs. Money is fungible and many schools have as their highest budget item their college sports programs, so I think that to be able to have their students get these funds directly is fine, but not the funding designed to lower tuition.

I dont think US tax payers should be on the hook for PEnn States football program or Louisville's Basketball, etc.

I haven't looked at that, but if that is also their highest revenue generating department and their financials show that the money the put there generates revenue that can be spent on sports plus other activities and they cannot do the same with income created from other departments, I don't have a problem with their doing that. Moreover, because we are talking about non-profit organizations in most cases, we have to consider the role of what are called "special funds," which are monies that non-profits receive and that can only be spent on a limited set of things. Without looking at the a school's financial statements and the notes to them, it's not possible to arbitrarily and accurately make a judgement call about the ways in which the school uses the money it does in its athletic program/department.

As for whether taxpayers should fund any given school's athletic program, I tend to agree that they should not. That should fall to alumni and other individuals who specifically want to do that.

Other:
One thing that will likely alter the nature of the collegiate landscape is free tuition at state schools. Today, many underprivileged young folks are good at one and only one thing: sports. In some, perhaps many, of those cases, though college athletes likely don't graduate with honors, they nonetheless are at least exposed to higher levels of thought, and but for being able to go to college on a sports scholarship, they might otherwise not be.

If Bernie can find a way to make obtaining a college degree truly merit driven thing, and not one that depends on a family's financial wherewithal, I think the nature of collegiate athletic programs will change. How is hard to say, but I think it safe to say that many poor kids will have greater motivation to perform well in K-12 if doing so means, even lacking familial money, they can nonetheless get a degree if they aren't also the very poor kid who happens to be valedictorian, salutatorian, or something approaching the rarefied air of that level of academic performance.

 

[there4eyeM]

It might seem that increased tax revenues from better educated workers would justify the investment (not "free").