Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[Markle]

Socialized Medicine just means that we all get equal access to doctors... quality is something you have to work out for yourself, but these days, we have all sorts of ways of figuring that out.

In reality, that is not true. Just as people do not get access to the finest doctors in a timely manner in our Capitalist system, those depending on Socialized care get whatever the government doles out, the upper-income folks get their choice of doctors and clinics that accept only cash.

Just as with income, the same is true about Socialized healthcare.

 

[Dragonlady]

Socialized Medicine just means that we all get equal access to doctors... quality is something you have to work out for yourself, but these days, we have all sorts of ways of figuring that out.

In reality, that is not true. Just as people do not get access to the finest doctors in a timely manner in our Capitalist system, those depending on Socialized care get whatever the government doles out, the upper-income folks get their choice of doctors and clinics that accept only cash.

Just as with income, the same is true about Socialized healthcare.

In a single payer system, doctors cannot legally "extra bill" their patients or take payment in cash. Doctors have a fee schedule and extra billing is banned.

In regard to equality of services, the rich always do better under any system because they have more access to resources. Basic healthcare coverage provides you with a room in a ward. You can pay extra for a semi-private or a private room. A family friend hired 24 hour, round the clock nurses to manage their father's care at home when his Alzheimer's progressed to the point where he needed full time care.

The idea isn't to degrade all care to the lowest common denominator, but rather that everyone has equal access to quality care. If you take the time to know how the health care system functions, you can take greater control of your care. Lower income people may not have the education or resources to maximize their care.

For example: I'm currently on a 2 year waiting list for a knee replacement. It's getting difficult to walk, but I'm not using a cane or walker, and I don't have much pain, although it is starting to get annoying. Now, I can go online, find a doctor/hospital with a shorter waiting list, and travel to that city for the surgery. I'm also setting up an evaluation appointment with the Joint Clinic to find another local doctor to fast track my surgery. Money, computer skills and persistence will make it happen sooner rather than later for me. I would prefer to stick with my original surgeon because he's very very good, hence the two year wait, so I'm covering all my bases - looking for someone else to do it sooner, before I lose mobility and start having excessive pain, but you can see that in a system where everyone has equal access, the poor will not get the same quality of treatment that the rich can buy.

I have a friend who went for her first assessment last month and is having surgery this week, but she should have had the surgery 5 years ago and refused to have it at the time because of other medical issues. Now she can't walk, and she will not get a 100% recovery or freedom from pain.

 

[JoeB131]

Ohhhhh...it pains me greatly to agree with JoeB131.

Don't worry, buddy. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[JoeB131]

n reality, that is not true. Just as people do not get access to the finest doctors in a timely manner in our Capitalist system, those depending on Socialized care get whatever the government doles out, the upper-income folks get their choice of doctors and clinics that accept only cash.

Just as with income, the same is true about Socialized healthcare.

again- talking to a guy who paid into an insurance policy for six years and a big insurance company tried to screw him... not really interested in Prager's bullshit.

If Bill Gates had to wait in the same clinic as the rest of us, you'd bet we'd get better health care.

 

[Markle]

In a single payer system, doctors cannot legally "extra bill" their patients or take payment in cash. Doctors have a fee schedule and extra billing is banned.

The doctors working for cash do not take part in the Socialist System.

Canada tried to ban them (Doctors working outside their system) with their Socialist Health Care plan but doctors sued and won in the Canadian Supreme Court.

 

[Polishprince]

For example: I'm currently on a 2 year waiting list for a knee replacement. It's getting difficult to walk, but I'm not using a cane or walker, and I don't have much pain, although it is starting to get annoying. Now, I can go online, find a doctor/hospital with a shorter waiting list, and travel to that city for the surgery. I'm also setting up an evaluation appointment with the Joint Clinic to find another local doctor to fast track my surgery. Money, computer skills and persistence will make it happen sooner rather than later for me. I would prefer to stick with my original surgeon because he's very very good, hence the two year wait, so I'm covering all my bases - looking for someone else to do it sooner, before I lose mobility and start having excessive pain, but you can see that in a system where everyone has equal access, the poor will not get the same quality of treatment that the rich can buy.

I have a friend who went for her first assessment last month and is having surgery this week, but she should have had the surgery 5 years ago and refused to have it at the time because of other medical issues. Now she can't walk, and she will not get a 100% recovery or freedom from pain.

If you are in the Dominions of Canada, you should come to America for treatment and quicker service.

Canadian subject Alex Trebek has serious pancreatic problems, and is getting taken care of right here. Ditto, BTW, with British subject Mick Jagger who went to New York for his cardiac problems instead of dealing with the quacks of the NHS.

 

[Polishprince]

If Bill Gates had to wait in the same clinic as the rest of us, you'd bet we'd get better health care.

There would be no way to make Bill Gates to wait in a clinic. If he had a serious problem, that he couldn't get treated in America, he'd go to Costa Rica or someplace else. Although how would you bust him for private medical care anyhow? If a private doctor visited Gates at his home, or vice versa, how would you know to raid a sick man's home for "illegal " medical care?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Stats show me you’re poor. Sorry man. Last time I made $80k was post college graduation. LOL

I doubt you make that now... a real rich person wouldn't be concerned about illegals, he'd be hirng them.

Here's the problem with Socialized Medicine, Joe.

Not every doctor is equal in capability by any stretch of the imagination. So "equal" health care for all is impossible. Some people will be treated by Dr. Vinnie Boombatz or Joe Mengele, others by Harvey Cushing or Ted Morrell or Michael Pinkus.

The free market is a mechanism to let people know relative quality.

That you are still trying to push Morrelll, a grubby little man, as a good doctor is kind of weird.... but here's the thing. Socialized Medicine just means that we all get equal access to doctors... quality is something you have to work out for yourself, but these days, we have all sorts of ways of figuring that out.

I make more than 3x that and even that’s just enough with two kids in Boston. You have no idea how expensive real life is and yes I am a product of legal immigrants. Illegals are criminals. You’re not successful and you’re 20 yrs older than I am. Loser.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Socialized Medicine just means that we all get equal access to doctors... quality is something you have to work out for yourself, but these days, we have all sorts of ways of figuring that out.

In reality, that is not true. Just as people do not get access to the finest doctors in a timely manner in our Capitalist system, those depending on Socialized care get whatever the government doles out, the upper-income folks get their choice of doctors and clinics that accept only cash.

Just as with income, the same is true about Socialized healthcare.

In a single payer system, doctors cannot legally "extra bill" their patients or take payment in cash. Doctors have a fee schedule and extra billing is banned.

In regard to equality of services, the rich always do better under any system because they have more access to resources. Basic healthcare coverage provides you with a room in a ward. You can pay extra for a semi-private or a private room. A family friend hired 24 hour, round the clock nurses to manage their father's care at home when his Alzheimer's progressed to the point where he needed full time care.

The idea isn't to degrade all care to the lowest common denominator, but rather that everyone has equal access to quality care. If you take the time to know how the health care system functions, you can take greater control of your care. Lower income people may not have the education or resources to maximize their care.

For example: I'm currently on a 2 year waiting list for a knee replacement. It's getting difficult to walk, but I'm not using a cane or walker, and I don't have much pain, although it is starting to get annoying. Now, I can go online, find a doctor/hospital with a shorter waiting list, and travel to that city for the surgery. I'm also setting up an evaluation appointment with the Joint Clinic to find another local doctor to fast track my surgery. Money, computer skills and persistence will make it happen sooner rather than later for me. I would prefer to stick with my original surgeon because he's very very good, hence the two year wait, so I'm covering all my bases - looking for someone else to do it sooner, before I lose mobility and start having excessive pain, but you can see that in a system where everyone has equal access, the poor will not get the same quality of treatment that the rich can buy.

I have a friend who went for her first assessment last month and is having surgery this week, but she should have had the surgery 5 years ago and refused to have it at the time because of other medical issues. Now she can't walk, and she will not get a 100% recovery or freedom from pain.

I like Free Markets. You don’t. But don’t vilify me because I do.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Socialized Medicine just means that we all get equal access to doctors... quality is something you have to work out for yourself, but these days, we have all sorts of ways of figuring that out.

In reality, that is not true. Just as people do not get access to the finest doctors in a timely manner in our Capitalist system, those depending on Socialized care get whatever the government doles out, the upper-income folks get their choice of doctors and clinics that accept only cash.

Just as with income, the same is true about Socialized healthcare.

In a single payer system, doctors cannot legally "extra bill" their patients or take payment in cash. Doctors have a fee schedule and extra billing is banned.

In regard to equality of services, the rich always do better under any system because they have more access to resources. Basic healthcare coverage provides you with a room in a ward. You can pay extra for a semi-private or a private room. A family friend hired 24 hour, round the clock nurses to manage their father's care at home when his Alzheimer's progressed to the point where he needed full time care.

The idea isn't to degrade all care to the lowest common denominator, but rather that everyone has equal access to quality care. If you take the time to know how the health care system functions, you can take greater control of your care. Lower income people may not have the education or resources to maximize their care.

For example: I'm currently on a 2 year waiting list for a knee replacement. It's getting difficult to walk, but I'm not using a cane or walker, and I don't have much pain, although it is starting to get annoying. Now, I can go online, find a doctor/hospital with a shorter waiting list, and travel to that city for the surgery. I'm also setting up an evaluation appointment with the Joint Clinic to find another local doctor to fast track my surgery. Money, computer skills and persistence will make it happen sooner rather than later for me. I would prefer to stick with my original surgeon because he's very very good, hence the two year wait, so I'm covering all my bases - looking for someone else to do it sooner, before I lose mobility and start having excessive pain, but you can see that in a system where everyone has equal access, the poor will not get the same quality of treatment that the rich can buy.

I have a friend who went for her first assessment last month and is having surgery this week, but she should have had the surgery 5 years ago and refused to have it at the time because of other medical issues. Now she can't walk, and she will not get a 100% recovery or freedom from pain.

I like Free Markets. You don’t. But don’t vilify me because I do.

Canadian companies offer private health insurance plans in about 75% of all cases involving professional jobs.

Now why would anyone need that ?

Think about it.

 

[JoeB131]

f you are in the Dominions of Canada, you should come to America for treatment and quicker service.

Canadian subject Alex Trebek has serious pancreatic problems, and is getting taken care of right here. Ditto, BTW, with British subject Mick Jagger who went to New York for his cardiac problems instead of dealing with the quacks of the NHS.

Trebek has lived in the US for decades...

one more time. If Trebek and Jagger can get medical treatment in the US that American Citizens can't get because they either have no insurance or their insurance won't cover it, then that is nothing to be proud of...

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

f you are in the Dominions of Canada, you should come to America for treatment and quicker service.

Canadian subject Alex Trebek has serious pancreatic problems, and is getting taken care of right here. Ditto, BTW, with British subject Mick Jagger who went to New York for his cardiac problems instead of dealing with the quacks of the NHS.

Trebek has lived in the US for decades...

one more time. If Trebek and Jagger can get medical treatment in the US that American Citizens can't get because they either have no insurance or their insurance won't cover it, then that is nothing to be proud of...

You little parasite. You admitted that my insurance is good and affordable so you want me to pay more so you get the same thing but in reality I ll pay more and be worse off. No thank you. Healthcare is not a right. If you want it, work for it.

 

[JoeB131]

You little parasite. You admitted that my insurance is good and affordable so you want me to pay more so you get the same thing but in reality I ll pay more and be worse off. No thank you. Healthcare is not a right. If you want it, work for it.

I don't know anything about your insurance... and probably you don't either. Get back to me when you have a serious condition that your insurance company doesn't want to pay for... then let me know.

Meanwhile, I'll be out here working to make sure we all get insurance.

 

[Polishprince]

f you are in the Dominions of Canada, you should come to America for treatment and quicker service.

Canadian subject Alex Trebek has serious pancreatic problems, and is getting taken care of right here. Ditto, BTW, with British subject Mick Jagger who went to New York for his cardiac problems instead of dealing with the quacks of the NHS.

Trebek has lived in the US for decades...

one more time. If Trebek and Jagger can get medical treatment in the US that American Citizens can't get because they either have no insurance or their insurance won't cover it, then that is nothing to be proud of...

The Liberal Socialized Medical schemes have NOTHING to do with US citizenship at all, Joe. You aren't paying attention.

All of the liberal candidates have pledged to provide Free medical care to anyone who comes here, legal or not. The real question IMHO is whether either of these gentlemen would have come to America for treatment under a Socialized Medicine scheme voluntarily or not. And this, the answer is most likely "no".

There are plenty of government paid quacks in both the United Kingdom and the Dominions of Canada. No need to travel.

Further, when Obama was interviewed, he explained that America would not be paying for expensive surgery for old people. Instead they would be given a pain pill, told they live a long enough life and sent home to die.

Both Mr. Trebek and Mr. Jagger are seasoned subjects

 

[JoeB131]

The Liberal Socialized Medical schemes have NOTHING to do with US citizenship at all, Joe. You aren't paying attention.

All of the liberal candidates have pledged to provide Free medical care to anyone who comes here, legal or not. The real question IMHO is whether either of these gentlemen would have come to America for treatment under a Socialized Medicine scheme voluntarily or not. And this, the answer is most likely "no".

You are confused. Trebek gets insurance through his job, not from the Canadian government, because this is where he lives.

"I'll take Morons for $600 Alex."
"Who is Polish Prince?"

Further, when Obama was interviewed, he explained that America would not be paying for expensive surgery for old people. Instead they would be given a pain pill, told they live a long enough life and sent home to die.

That's what they do now... Very old people with no chance of recovery, you stop cutting on them at a certain point and send them to a hospice.

 

[danielpalos]

Solving for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment with unemployment compensation is simpler and the legal and physical infrastructure already exists in our Republic.

 

[Markle]

Solving for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment with unemployment compensation is simpler and the legal and physical infrastructure already exists in our Republic.

 

[Rigby5]

f you are in the Dominions of Canada, you should come to America for treatment and quicker service.

Canadian subject Alex Trebek has serious pancreatic problems, and is getting taken care of right here. Ditto, BTW, with British subject Mick Jagger who went to New York for his cardiac problems instead of dealing with the quacks of the NHS.

Trebek has lived in the US for decades...

one more time. If Trebek and Jagger can get medical treatment in the US that American Citizens can't get because they either have no insurance or their insurance won't cover it, then that is nothing to be proud of...

You little parasite. You admitted that my insurance is good and affordable so you want me to pay more so you get the same thing but in reality I ll pay more and be worse off. No thank you. Healthcare is not a right. If you want it, work for it.

You insurance is not at all good or affordable.
You prepay to a third party, thus giving up any ability to control quality or costs.
You pay over twice what your health care should cost, and you don't care because much of it is hidden by prepayment, employer contribution, and tax exemption that poor people are not allowed.
For example, I have paid in over half a million dollars in health insurance premiums, never got a single cent back because it was never above the deductible, and I lost it all when retired.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You little parasite. You admitted that my insurance is good and affordable so you want me to pay more so you get the same thing but in reality I ll pay more and be worse off. No thank you. Healthcare is not a right. If you want it, work for it.

I don't know anything about your insurance... and probably you don't either. Get back to me when you have a serious condition that your insurance company doesn't want to pay for... then let me know.

Meanwhile, I'll be out here working to make sure we all get insurance.

My daughters were both competitive gymnasts and now play high level hoops and LAX. Multiple injuries and seen quickly and treated well at some of the best hospitals in the world. I ll Stick with what I have.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

f you are in the Dominions of Canada, you should come to America for treatment and quicker service.

Canadian subject Alex Trebek has serious pancreatic problems, and is getting taken care of right here. Ditto, BTW, with British subject Mick Jagger who went to New York for his cardiac problems instead of dealing with the quacks of the NHS.

Trebek has lived in the US for decades...

one more time. If Trebek and Jagger can get medical treatment in the US that American Citizens can't get because they either have no insurance or their insurance won't cover it, then that is nothing to be proud of...

You little parasite. You admitted that my insurance is good and affordable so you want me to pay more so you get the same thing but in reality I ll pay more and be worse off. No thank you. Healthcare is not a right. If you want it, work for it.

You insurance is not at all good or affordable.
You prepay to a third party, thus giving up any ability to control quality or costs.
You pay over twice what your health care should cost, and you don't care because much of it is hidden by prepayment, employer contribution, and tax exemption that poor people are not allowed.
For example, I have paid in over half a million dollars in health insurance premiums, never got a single cent back because it was never above the deductible, and I lost it all when retired.

I pay less than $7k per year for a family of 4. Absolute dollars. I dont care about all you contrived mathematics. Insurance works as such. You only get it when you need it. Duh