Universal Basic Income: Biden's Best Bet?

Status
Not open for further replies.

hadit

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
27,559
Reaction score
5,867
Points
280
Unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed generates tax revenue.
More tax revenue than it costs?
For every $100 taken from the government for unemployment, how many dollars are returned in tax revenue? Maybe 10-20%?
To those of us who know math, that's an 80-90% loss.
If you have no clue how math works, just leave one of your calling cards; a laughing idiot emoticon or a word salad response about general warfare.
He never, and I mean never, accounts for the opportunity cost of taking all that money out of the economy. He thinks he can fill up a swimming pool by filling a bucket in the deep end, spilling most of it out on the ground, then pouring it into the shallow end.
 

danielpalos

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
64,731
Reaction score
3,189
Points
1,855
Location
Alta California, federalist.
Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?
328 million Americans * $1,000/month = $328 billion/month.
$328 billion/month * 12 months = $3.9 trillion/year.

Fun times indeed. Where is the almost $4 trillion going to come from, Bill Gates?

That's McConnell's response that kills the whole thing.
Moscow Mitch wouldn't do it if it was $.05 a year.

He's scum who cares nothing for Americans.
Irrelevant. It's a stupid idea.
What's irrelevant about the senate majority leader not caring about the people he's supposed to be working for?

its not his job to take care or provide for the people,,
Actually, as a senator, that precisely what his job is.

where can I find that in the constitution??
So, you are claiming that it's not a senators job to look after the best interests of his/her constituents?

What do you think their job is?
You said "PROVIDE" for them. That is not a senators job and it never will be.
Many people think it is, and that's the core problem.
Provide for the general welfare is in our Constitution.
Oh, more daniel poetry. Take another hit dood!
lol. I need better weed to get more in depth.
 

hadit

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
27,559
Reaction score
5,867
Points
280
Let's see if we can translate: You want wages to just continually rise, which is inflation because you're not doing anything to increase the value of the jobs
Productivity has also risen. Inflation happens regardless. The minimum wage should have kept up with inflation from Inception.
Does the burger flipper of today flip more burgers than the burger flipper of yesterday, or does he do about the same number? Does the floor sweeper sweep more floors today or about the same amount of square footage in a normal shift? Does the Wal-Mart greeter greet more people today than before? The productivity you're talking about is from automation. For example, you don't have thousands of men on an auto assembly line welding pieces together and turning bolts, you have a comparative handful monitoring machines that do a better job welding and putting on bolts. A worker has to learn new skills to operate the automated machines, which in turn means he doesn't get paid MW any more. So, since you brought it up, what MW jobs have seen increased productivity that would justify higher wages? Be specific.
Valuation just like the CEO is what matters.
What jobs? Be specific.
If the CEO gets compensated due to valuation why the difference for labor? Productivity has gone up.
The CEO is more responsible for productivity going up because he directs the company to invest in automation. Now, what MW jobs are driving higher productivity?
How much more work did that CEO do? Simply being responsible is not the same as being more productive.
He makes the decisions and sets the direction for the company, which results in greater productivity. The workers just do what they're told to do. Again, which MW jobs are driving higher productivity? Be specific and tell us which ones are worth more now than they were 5 years ago.
 

danielpalos

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
64,731
Reaction score
3,189
Points
1,855
Location
Alta California, federalist.
Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?
328 million Americans * $1,000/month = $328 billion/month.
$328 billion/month * 12 months = $3.9 trillion/year.

Fun times indeed. Where is the almost $4 trillion going to come from, Bill Gates?

That's McConnell's response that kills the whole thing.
Moscow Mitch wouldn't do it if it was $.05 a year.

He's scum who cares nothing for Americans.
Irrelevant. It's a stupid idea.
What's irrelevant about the senate majority leader not caring about the people he's supposed to be working for?
Anyone who supports handing out 4 trillion per year is irrelevant.
It depends on the public policy. Any such expenditure should be considered an investment in the general welfare and result in a multiplier of two or more on our economy as a return on that investment.
Investments are meant to make money; not guaruntee bankruptcy. Youre fucking crazy if you think handing out 4 trillion per year is a good idea.
It depends on the fiscal multiplier. UC has shown a multiplier of two in at least one case study. A two to one ratio; thus, a four trillion dollar investment should generate about eight trillion in economic activity due to the multiplier.
 

hadit

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
27,559
Reaction score
5,867
Points
280
Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?
328 million Americans * $1,000/month = $328 billion/month.
$328 billion/month * 12 months = $3.9 trillion/year.

Fun times indeed. Where is the almost $4 trillion going to come from, Bill Gates?

That's McConnell's response that kills the whole thing.
Moscow Mitch wouldn't do it if it was $.05 a year.

He's scum who cares nothing for Americans.
Irrelevant. It's a stupid idea.
What's irrelevant about the senate majority leader not caring about the people he's supposed to be working for?
Anyone who supports handing out 4 trillion per year is irrelevant.
It depends on the public policy. Any such expenditure should be considered an investment in the general welfare and result in a multiplier of two or more on our economy as a return on that investment.
Investments are meant to make money; not guaruntee bankruptcy. Youre fucking crazy if you think handing out 4 trillion per year is a good idea.
It depends on the fiscal multiplier. UC has shown a multiplier of two in at least one case study. A two to one ratio; thus, a four trillion dollar investment should generate about eight trillion in economic activity due to the multiplier.
And how much would be lost because we took the 4 trillion out of the economy in the first place?
 

danielpalos

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
64,731
Reaction score
3,189
Points
1,855
Location
Alta California, federalist.
Let's see if we can translate: You want wages to just continually rise, which is inflation because you're not doing anything to increase the value of the jobs
Productivity has also risen. Inflation happens regardless. The minimum wage should have kept up with inflation from Inception.
Does the burger flipper of today flip more burgers than the burger flipper of yesterday, or does he do about the same number? Does the floor sweeper sweep more floors today or about the same amount of square footage in a normal shift? Does the Wal-Mart greeter greet more people today than before? The productivity you're talking about is from automation. For example, you don't have thousands of men on an auto assembly line welding pieces together and turning bolts, you have a comparative handful monitoring machines that do a better job welding and putting on bolts. A worker has to learn new skills to operate the automated machines, which in turn means he doesn't get paid MW any more. So, since you brought it up, what MW jobs have seen increased productivity that would justify higher wages? Be specific.
Valuation just like the CEO is what matters.
What jobs? Be specific.
If the CEO gets compensated due to valuation why the difference for labor? Productivity has gone up.
The CEO is more responsible for productivity going up because he directs the company to invest in automation. Now, what MW jobs are driving higher productivity?
How much more work did that CEO do? Simply being responsible is not the same as being more productive.
Put out the capitol investment..
Not a requirement. It is about productivity.
 

Orangecat

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,659
Reaction score
2,873
Points
1,918
Provide for the general welfare is in our Constitution.
It says nothing about individual welfare, which is what a check to an individual would be.
General welfare is things like infrastructure, a court system for resolving disputes, a border wall to discourage illegal entry, etc.
 

danielpalos

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
64,731
Reaction score
3,189
Points
1,855
Location
Alta California, federalist.
Unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed generates tax revenue.
More tax revenue than it costs?
For every $100 taken from the government for unemployment, how many dollars are returned in tax revenue? Maybe 10-20%?
To those of us who know math, that's an 80-90% loss.
If you have no clue how math works, just leave one of your calling cards; a laughing idiot emoticon or a word salad response about general warfare.
A fiscal multiplier of two. It is an economic concept you should already know if you were serious about actually arguing economics with me.
 

Uncensored2008

Libertarian Radical
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
88,996
Reaction score
19,209
Points
2,180
Location
Behind the Orange Curtain
Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?
Why not just nationalize all business with revenue under $1 billion and make all people workers for the state?

You can provide housing, food, and medical care.

1605975406848.png


democrats have a plan.
 

danielpalos

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
64,731
Reaction score
3,189
Points
1,855
Location
Alta California, federalist.
Unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed generates tax revenue.
More tax revenue than it costs?
For every $100 taken from the government for unemployment, how many dollars are returned in tax revenue? Maybe 10-20%?
To those of us who know math, that's an 80-90% loss.
If you have no clue how math works, just leave one of your calling cards; a laughing idiot emoticon or a word salad response about general warfare.
He never, and I mean never, accounts for the opportunity cost of taking all that money out of the economy. He thinks he can fill up a swimming pool by filling a bucket in the deep end, spilling most of it out on the ground, then pouring it into the shallow end.
lol. Compensating Labor as the least wealthy in our economy for Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment gives us the biggest bang for our fiscal buck because the Poor tend to spend most of their income sooner rather than later. Right wingers are too economically illiterate to be taken fiscally seriously. All they know how to do is run massive federal budget deficits while the Rich get richer and the Poor get poorer.
 

Orangecat

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,659
Reaction score
2,873
Points
1,918
A fiscal multiplier of two. It is an economic concept you should already know if you were serious about actually arguing economics with me.
I'm not "arguing economics with you". I'm enlightening your ignorant ass mathematically.
For every $100 paid out to an unemployed person, how much comes back in tax revenue?
 

Uncensored2008

Libertarian Radical
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
88,996
Reaction score
19,209
Points
2,180
Location
Behind the Orange Curtain
Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States could be accomplished by executive order.

Automatic stabilization of our economy now!
Moron.

You've lived your entire life without earning a single dollar so far - so what are you complaining about?
 

danielpalos

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
64,731
Reaction score
3,189
Points
1,855
Location
Alta California, federalist.
Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?
Why not just nationalize all business with revenue under $1 billion and make all people workers for the state?

You can provide housing, food, and medical care.

View attachment 419402

democrats have a plan.
lol. How fantastical, right winger. Democrats are for a higher minimum wage unlike right wingers who want no minimum wage laws at all, just like in the good olde days.
 

danielpalos

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
64,731
Reaction score
3,189
Points
1,855
Location
Alta California, federalist.
Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States could be accomplished by executive order.

Automatic stabilization of our economy now!
Moron.

You've lived your entire life without earning a single dollar so far - so what are you complaining about?
Not ethical or moral enough to have valid arguments?
 

danielpalos

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
64,731
Reaction score
3,189
Points
1,855
Location
Alta California, federalist.
UC can and should solve simple poverty and automatically stabilize our economy at the same time.
No, that's neither its purpose nor ability.
Promoting the general welfare means we should actually solve for simple poverty not just waste money on an endless and alleged, War on Poverty. There is no provision for excuses in our federal doctrine.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top