Unions in the US

[The Rabbi]

That's not for me to answer. You might consult with the sweatshop workers in Bangladesh and Cambodia to get a more "fair and balanced" opinion.

Are they there involuntarily? Or isnt it the case that potential workers in those places line up to get jobs that pay way over what other opportunities in those countries offer?

Don't bother answering. The answer must be given by someone with a capacity to think.

 

[jillian]

Again, where? I want to make sure I avoid your world... it all sounds so, 1905.

either you're very young, very inexperienced in the real world or very stupid.

i know at least the inexperienced and stupid part are true.

I am 50, have been employed since age 16 and am anything but stupid. My question is serious... I keep reading these posts about these dastardly employers... yes, I have had shitty jobs. I left and found better ones and ultimately became self-employed.

I don't understand your world or more to the point, your mindset.

if you were serious, you and the pretend rabbi wouldn't be wasting my time by challenging my bona fides. you know, the twit actually called me a self-hating jew? Well that was after he said i wasn't a jew. (which happened to be the week i paid for my son's bar mitzvah... so you can understand why i think he's a joke).

i graduated law school at 23. i've practiced for 20 years. some idiot saying otherwise doesn't make me any less what i am. it just makes you look stupid.

i understand that you don't understand my world or my mindset any more than i understand yours. but some imbecile calling a wife and mother and professional -- a hooker because he doesn't agree with me isn't going to give any more insight into what i think or why i think it. it's just going to get the appropriate response... which from this woman from brooklyn isn't going to be particularly friendly. to me, internet muscles are just boring and flexed by losers who are too cowardly to say to people's faces what they feel comfortable saying from behind a computer screen.

if the differences come down to philosophy, then they do. but i spent enough time watching employment laws get thwarted in the courts to know that the middle class only exists when its' protected by regulations and by unions.

otherwise the only playing field is 'take it or leave it'. why shouldn't there be anything to help level that playing field? it always amazes me when i see people question the need for laws and unions and court intervention. its what stands between us and being a banana republic where there are armed guards and barbed wire around residences of people with means.

but thanks for trying the more civil route.

 

[rightwinger]

And once again we learn two things:
Those in favor of unions invoke a lost world that will never return to scare people into accepting their views.
Jillian and Juniorbert have nothing of substance to contribute and cannot sustain a debate without turning it into a name-call-fest.

Thanks. Mods, please close the thread.

The workers who are employed in those industries understand the conditions of their workplace. They are the ones who get to choose whether they want union representation or not.

I am not surprised you are giving up and self declaring victory so soon. I have yet to see you defend those mine owners in Kentuky and West Virginia who blocked unions from their sites.

I would give up if I were you also

 

[Intense]

Personally I think that the remedies should come through labor laws, including everyone, in foundation. The States should act independently, with Federal minimum standards, and we should all be working to advance them. Not enough focus is placed here.

 

[8537]

And once again we learn two things:
Those in favor of unions invoke a lost world that will never return to scare people into accepting their views.
Jillian and Juniorbert have nothing of substance to contribute and cannot sustain a debate without turning it into a name-call-fest.

Thanks. Mods, please close the thread.

The workers who are employed in those industries understand the conditions of their workplace. They are the ones who get to choose whether they want union representation or not.

First Amendment Freedom of Association! (unless or until you associate to promote higher wages and safer working conditions for the middle class - then you're a commie)

 

[The Rabbi]

And once again we learn two things:
Those in favor of unions invoke a lost world that will never return to scare people into accepting their views.
Jillian and Juniorbert have nothing of substance to contribute and cannot sustain a debate without turning it into a name-call-fest.

Thanks. Mods, please close the thread.

The workers who are employed in those industries understand the conditions of their workplace. They are the ones who get to choose whether they want union representation or not.

I am not surprised you are giving up and self declaring victory so soon. I have yet to see you defend those mine owners in Kentuky and West Virginia who blocked unions from their sites.

I would give up if I were you also

WTF are you babbling about, again?
Someone with your track record doesn't need to go around giving advice.
Unions have consistently lost elections, thus the push for "card check" legislation now.
But my question is why do we need these illegal relics at all? They would not pass muster under any anti trust law. They seem to do nothing but concentrate power in the hands of leadership and ergo politicians, who then pretend to be out for "the little guy."

 

[JBeukema]

The Jew wants to be like JB

 

[California Girl]

awwwww... the pretend rabbi speaks.

pissant loon.

and you know damn well i am what i say. if you don't then you're too stupid to bother with.

either way, you're a loser troll.

keep practicing how to say 'you want fries with that'? you may get it right someday.

nutbar

Stalker-*****. If you want to contribute something here other than irrelevance and insults do so. Otherwise STFU.
Go practice your "buy me a drink" and "your cock number One, GI" lines elsewhere.

Just because you got your ass kicked by a woman does not make it ok to behave like a total ******* moron.... unless, of course, you are a total ******* moron.

 

[California Girl]

Personally I think that the remedies should come through labor laws, including everyone, in foundation. The States should act independently, with Federal minimum standards, and we should all be working to advance them. Not enough focus is placed here.

I agree. In an ideal world, there would be no need for unions. Sadly, we live in the real one so there is a need for unions.

What I find interesting is the either/or attitude. The truth is that neither 'side' is perfect. We have companies who treat employees badly... and we have unions who would prefer to destroy a company rather than 'lose'. Neither 'side' is right.

 

[shintao]

Back at some time in the long past unions were used to assure there was equitable power between owners and workers. That time is long past, of course.
Today there is not an industry traditionally dominated by unions that has not experienced stagnation and shrinkage. But even more, the need for unions to engage in collective bargaining is moribund, as workers are better educated and better informed.
Unions exist basically through a waiver in anti trust law. Is it not now time to repeal that waiver and outlaw unions as they have traditionally been constituted? This is especially so with public-sector unions, which seem to pose a direct financial threat to the entities they serve.

Nah, I think we will leave unions just as they are, and leave nonunion right where they are.

 

[The Rabbi]

And once again we learn two things:
Those in favor of unions invoke a lost world that will never return to scare people into accepting their views.
Jillian and Juniorbert have nothing of substance to contribute and cannot sustain a debate without turning it into a name-call-fest.

Thanks. Mods, please close the thread.

The workers who are employed in those industries understand the conditions of their workplace. They are the ones who get to choose whether they want union representation or not.

First Amendment Freedom of Association! (unless or until you associate to promote higher wages and safer working conditions for the middle class - then you're a commie)

WTF are babbling about incoherently again?
It has nothing to do with 1A. Nada.
Guess again, Einstein.

 

[California Girl]

either you're very young, very inexperienced in the real world or very stupid.

i know at least the inexperienced and stupid part are true.

I am 50, have been employed since age 16 and am anything but stupid. My question is serious... I keep reading these posts about these dastardly employers... yes, I have had shitty jobs. I left and found better ones and ultimately became self-employed.

I don't understand your world or more to the point, your mindset.

if you were serious, you and the pretend rabbi wouldn't be wasting my time by challenging my bona fides. you know, the twit actually called me a self-hating jew? Well that was after he said i wasn't a jew. (which happened to be the week i paid for my son's bar mitzvah... so you can understand why i think he's a joke).

i graduated law school at 23. i've practiced for 20 years. some idiot saying otherwise doesn't make me any less what i am. it just makes you look stupid.

i understand that you don't understand my world or my mindset any more than i understand yours. but some imbecile calling a wife and mother and professional -- a hooker because he doesn't agree with me isn't going to give any more insight into what i think or why i think it. it's just going to get the appropriate response... which from this woman from brooklyn isn't going to be particularly friendly. to me, internet muscles are just boring and flexed by losers who are too cowardly to say to people's faces what they feel comfortable saying from behind a computer screen.

if the differences come down to philosophy, then they do. but i spent enough time watching employment laws get thwarted in the courts to know that the middle class only exists when its' protected by regulations and by unions.

otherwise the only playing field is 'take it or leave it'. why shouldn't there be anything to help level that playing field? it always amazes me when i see people question the need for laws and unions and court intervention. its what stands between us and being a banana republic where there are armed guards and barbed wire around residences of people with means.

but thanks for trying the more civil route.

You and I may - mostly - be on opposite sides of the political spectrum but, mo chara, if I needed a good lawyer.... I'd call you.

 

[FrankieGA]

I have worked with Unions for many years, and I have worked without Unions for many years. Here is what I see. Unions are supposed to provide level playing fields for workers while promoting the workers in the Unions to be more trained. I'm sorry, I think the fact that Unions push for Workers to make nearly double what Non-Union workers do, only to have a majority of that money used for Dues and whatever else the Union decides it needs the money for is ridiculous. It drives the cost of goods up exponentially and really creates an unbalanced system. Unions were good back in the early days of them. When they stood for what they did. Now its just another way for corrupt people to extort money out of the Evil Rich Business Owners who provide Thousands of Jobs across this country.

 

[8537]

The workers who are employed in those industries understand the conditions of their workplace. They are the ones who get to choose whether they want union representation or not.

First Amendment Freedom of Association! (unless or until you associate to promote higher wages and safer working conditions for the middle class - then you're a commie)

WTF are babbling about incoherently again?
It has nothing to do with 1A. Nada.
Guess again, Einstein.

I really liked the "just because you got your ass kicked..." line. It seems somehow appropriate here as well.

Of course, I'm not "babbling incoherently". You're just too stupid to digest what I wrote. let's try it in simpler terms:

The first amendment to the Constitution was part of the first attempt to change the Constitution. In the case of the first amendment, the change was to prevent government from passing laws banning certain activities. One of those activities was the freedom to associate - for instance, to organize or to gather. If you weren't so stupid, you would realize that the freedom of association includes the freedom of individual employees to organize to protect and promote their interests - also known as unionizing.

if any of those words are too big, let me know.

 

[Harry Dresden]

With the laws and regulations we now have on the books about compensation and safety in the workplace unions are no longer necessary.

Thats the answer in a nutshell.

maybe where you work.....

You're place of employment is exempt from OSHA, EEOC rules, etc.?

Unions are unnecessary... hence their dwindling ranks. Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

the place were i work....the dreaded federal place called the PO....does everything they can to circumvent any rule and regulation out there.....and as far as i know....NO.... OSHA does not have any regulating authority in a federal building,at least in the PO....if they do....then that is brand new,AND it would be no doubt BECAUSE of the Union....but as far as i know they dont......

 

[JBeukema]

I do more than one thing for employment, but one of those roles was unionized in 2007. Since then, wages for members has increased 30% and benefits have improved. There is still a role for unions because there is still a need for collective bargaining.

Why is there a need for collective bargaining when workers can easily shop for the best wages and benefits? If companies are not attracting appropriate workers for what they want to pay, they will have to increase their compensation package. It's called "the free market". Some people ought to try it sometime.

So only the bourgeoisie should be allowed to bargain collectively to serve their interest?


Unions and collective bargaining by the workers is the other half of a free labour market.

 

[shintao]

I have worked with Unions for many years, and I have worked without Unions for many years. Here is what I see. Unions are supposed to provide level playing fields for workers while promoting the workers in the Unions to be more trained. I'm sorry, I think the fact that Unions push for Workers to make nearly double what Non-Union workers do, only to have a majority of that money used for Dues and whatever else the Union decides it needs the money for is ridiculous. It drives the cost of goods up exponentially and really creates an unbalanced system. Unions were good back in the early days of them. When they stood for what they did. Now its just another way for corrupt people to extort money out of the Evil Rich Business Owners who provide Thousands of Jobs across this country.

Hard telling what union or dues you are referring to, but I would bet they are tide to a host of benefits packaged for you that nonunion doesn't get. The idea of Capitalism is to make a profit, so why would you rail against that? Should we outlaw CEOs, boardmembers and stockholders as well? You know, get that level playing field. Unions are good today. We can cut nonunion profits and spread it around to the nonunion workers.

 

[Harry Dresden]

That is not the case with unions, where a better-educated workforce combined with better information dissemination makes unions obsolete.
See the difference?

yea i see it......"hey boss i need a raise"......well go find a better job....."hey boss this structure over here is unsafe"......well be careful then.....yea i see the difference....

 

[FrankieGA]

I have worked with Unions for many years, and I have worked without Unions for many years. Here is what I see. Unions are supposed to provide level playing fields for workers while promoting the workers in the Unions to be more trained. I'm sorry, I think the fact that Unions push for Workers to make nearly double what Non-Union workers do, only to have a majority of that money used for Dues and whatever else the Union decides it needs the money for is ridiculous. It drives the cost of goods up exponentially and really creates an unbalanced system. Unions were good back in the early days of them. When they stood for what they did. Now its just another way for corrupt people to extort money out of the Evil Rich Business Owners who provide Thousands of Jobs across this country.

Hard telling what union or dues you are referring to, but I would bet they are tide to a host of benefits packaged for you that nonunion doesn't get. The idea of Capitalism is to make a profit, so why would you rail against that? Should we outlaw CEOs, boardmembers and stockholders as well? You know, get that level playing field. Unions are good today. We can cut nonunion profits and spread it around to the nonunion workers.

For Example, Someone working in Chicago in the industry that I am talking about makes $53 dollars an hour. Someone in Atlanta doing the same job makes $28 hr. Talking to the Man in Chicago, at first I was like WOW that's Fantastic. Good for Him. Then he proceeded to tell me about the dues, and Healthcare, and this and that, that eventually got him back around the same pay that Atlanta Guy was getting paid. To me I don't understand that benefit of having someone "Looking Out" for me. And to suggest that you would take the profits from a Non-Union Company and spread it around to the workers sounds an awful lot like a Socialist argument. Business Owners are the ones that stick their neck out and take the risk to create, invent, sell, whatever thier product. But at some point you want to unionize which forces Wages through the roof for the same quality of work.

 

[rightwinger]

That is not the case with unions, where a better-educated workforce combined with better information dissemination makes unions obsolete.
See the difference?

yea i see it......"hey boss i need a raise"......well go find a better job....."hey boss this structure over here is unsafe"......well be careful then.....yea i see the difference....

Managment has used the "If you don't like it, find work elsewhere" for generations it was used to justify low wages, unsafe working conditions, discrimination.

Collective bargaining allows the workers to say "We will all look elsewhere"