Understanding Social Security - No, it's not your money

[Woodznutz]

If I had the option of investing the total amount (including the employer's portion) I've paid into SS into just a simple index mutual fund I would have MORE options to retire early and have a substantially higher retirement income in addition to my retirement savings account.

So....
Yes, it IS MY MONEY DESPITE THE RHETORIC.

But instead it's been given to everyone except me. It's been given to illegal aliens, drunks too addicted to alcohol to hold a job, and to anyone the government wanted to buy votes from.
And those who are rightfully entitled to their retirement are put through a ton of hoops of requirements and a blizzard of paperwork needed to fill out. It's a ridiculous process!

40 calendar quarters?
HA!
That's only ten years of work to get a full draw of $1800/mo.

What about those with 35 years or more of paying in?
Do they get anything extra?

No they don't, except they get the benefit of being told to "shut up about it" .
But those who are drug addicted, lazy, crazy, or just Democrat voters get the same as those who worked their whole lives.

You need to study the subject.

 

[Woodznutz]

It went into the General Fund otherwise known as "America's Checkbook", so the politicians could raid it for shit we don't need.

It was borrowed from the SS Trust Fund which is paid interest on the loan.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

No they don't, except they get the benefit of being told to "shut up about it" .
But those who are drug addicted, lazy, crazy, or just Democrat voters get the same as those who worked their whole lives.

This is so true. In all blue controlled districts, taxpayer money is used heavily in social equity programs where the cities for example take funds from the Feral government and build or renovate housing that is often considered luxury housing with granite counter tops and walk in showers and even hot tubs, and subsidize low income (but democrat voting) people at taxpayer expense. With little housing expenses, this allows those recipients to then buy and drive $80,000 luxury vehicles. as long as they vote to keep the left people in power they are rewarded heavily with taxpayer funds. All democrat run cities have them and they are called Community Development. Unfortunately, too many formerly Republican towns are following this model because it invites the funneling of cash into the hands of chosen concerns.

This nation is corrupt to the core now. There is probably no way back.

 

[Woodznutz]

The government buying government bonds is not "investment." It is financial masturbation. Who pays the interest? The same taxpayers who pay the FICA taxes.

The interest paid helps keep SS solvent. If the government borrowed from any other source, we'd still have to pay the interest, and the SS Trust Fund would languish earning no interest at all.

 

[Dagosa]

It went into the General Fund otherwise known as "America's Checkbook", so the politicians could raid it for shit we don't need.

It has a surplus of nearly three trillion dollars that the gop refuses to acknowledge by continually complaining, “it’s running out” . Indeed the opposite is true. By weakening SS, the gop wants to keep alive a surplus that can be raided. Indeed, the cap has been increased regularly by the Fed for decades to insure there is enough money for social security benefits. It’s another scam the gop……fear mongering.

2022 Wage Cap Jumps to $147,000 for Social Security Payroll Taxes

Starting Jan. 1, the maximum earnings subject to the Social Security payroll tax will increase. By the start of the new year, U.S. employers should adjust their payroll systems to account for the higher taxable wage base and notify affected employees.

www.shrm.org

 

[JohnDB]

You need to study the subject.

I'll add it to the list.

You need to learn about RR retirement.
Those guys retired wealthy. In the '80's and '90's they retired millionaires. When they retired they got raises in pay by drawing from their pensions instead of getting paychecks.
AND
Their kids got a huge chunk of change when they passed on.

 

[Woodznutz]

I'll add it to the list.

You need to learn about RR retirement.
Those guys retired wealthy. In the '80's and '90's they retired millionaires. When they retired they got raises in pay by drawing from their pensions instead of getting paychecks.
AND
Their kids got a huge chunk of change when they passed on.

Pensions are a thing of the past. 401K's and IRA's invest in the markets now. Most aren't able to invest enough to retire rich. SS is for the average working person. It's a reliable source of retirement income that keeps millions out of the poorhouse. However, it can also be a source of investment money when collected. I invest all of mine and then some.

 

[Woodznutz]

It has a surplus of nearly three trillion dollars that the gop refuses to acknowledge by continually complaining, “it’s running out” . Indeed the opposite is true. By weakening SS, the gop wants to keep alive a surplus that can be raided. Indeed, the cap has been increased regularly by the Fed for decades to insure there is enough money for social security benefits. It’s another scam the gop……fear mongering.

2022 Wage Cap Jumps to $147,000 for Social Security Payroll Taxes

Starting Jan. 1, the maximum earnings subject to the Social Security payroll tax will increase. By the start of the new year, U.S. employers should adjust their payroll systems to account for the higher taxable wage base and notify affected employees.

www.shrm.org

You can't take 3 $Trillion out of circulation without some bad consequences. And you can't allow 3 $Trillion to sit in an inactive account earning no interest.

 

[Dagosa]

You can't take 3 $Trillion out of circulation without some bad consequences. And you can't allow 3 $Trillion to sit in an inactive account earning no interest.

It has been spent. It’s a three trillion IOU that the US is bound to honor. And it’s just another scare tactic by republicans to take more money out of the middle class to declare we will take 3 trillion suddenly out of the economy. We raise the cap like the IRS has been empowered to do for decades. Every election cycle it roles around.

 

[Woodznutz]

It’s a three trillion IOU that the US is bound to honor.

That's the meat and potatoes of it.

 

[DGS49]

Good God Girty! There is no "surplus" in the "trust fund." There is money remaining, but it is quickly being depleted by us Boomers who are drawing it down. If and when it runs down to zero (it won't), SS benefits CANNOT BE PAID OUT OF GENERAL FUNDS. This is part of the legal fiction that makes SS arguably Constitutional: It doesn't and can't use general fund dollars!*

If the fund were to run dry, SS would move to a pay-go arrangement, and benefits would be cut, across the board, by about 20%. But Congress will never let this happen. They would all be voted out immediately. They will come up with a solution, the main part of which will be the elimination of the cap on wages subject to the FICA tax.

___________________
* Socialized medicine, or whatever it ends up being called, will require ANOTHER "payroll tax" which wage-earners will have to pay in addition to the SS and Medicare payroll taxes. OR the Medicare tax will be dramatically increased to cover the additional cost. The hope would be that the health insurance premiums we (or our employers) pay would be removed, and the net cost to the taxpayers would be zero.

 

[Woodznutz]

People are living longer. We must insist that they die sooner to preserve the system.

 

[Dagosa]

Good God Girty! There is no "surplus" in the "trust fund." There is money remaining, but it is quickly being depleted by us Boomers who are drawing it down. If and when it runs down to zero (it won't), SS benefits CANNOT BE PAID OUT OF GENERAL FUNDS. This is part of the legal fiction that makes SS arguably Constitutional: It doesn't and can't use general fund dollars!*

If the fund were to run dry, SS would move to a pay-go arrangement, and benefits would be cut, across the board, by about 20%. But Congress will never let this happen. They would all be voted out immediately. They will come up with a solution, the main part of which will be the elimination of the cap on wages subject to the FICA tax.

___________________
* Socialized medicine, or whatever it ends up being called, will require ANOTHER "payroll tax" which wage-earners will have to pay in addition to the SS and Medicare payroll taxes. OR the Medicare tax will be dramatically increased to cover the additional cost. The hope would be that the health insurance premiums we (or our employers) pay would be removed, and the net cost to the taxpayers would be zero.

Ha ha…there is no money remaining. They are securities, pieces of paper that we are mandated to honor. The budget is yearly and there is no accumulated carryover from one year to the next as far SS is concerned. There is nearly 3 trillion in these IOUs that we must budget for or collect as taxes. When we don’t we incur deficit spending

 

[Dagosa]

f the fund were to run dry,

The trust fund itself has not run dry. It’s 3 trillion ahead. Hence the phrase, trust fund.

 

[Dagosa]

Good God Girty! There is no "surplus" in the "trust fund." There is money remaining, but it is quickly being depleted by us Boomers who are drawing it down. If and when it runs down to zero (it won't), SS benefits CANNOT BE PAID OUT OF GENERAL FUNDS. This is part of the legal fiction that makes SS arguably Constitutional: It doesn't and can't use general fund dollars!*

If the fund were to run dry, SS would move to a pay-go arrangement, and benefits would be cut, across the board, by about 20%. But Congress will never let this happen. They would all be voted out immediately. They will come up with a solution, the main part of which will be the elimination of the cap on wages subject to the FICA tax.

___________________
* Socialized medicine, or whatever it ends up being called, will require ANOTHER "payroll tax" which wage-earners will have to pay in addition to the SS and Medicare payroll taxes. OR the Medicare tax will be dramatically increased to cover the additional cost. The hope would be that the health insurance premiums we (or our employers) pay would be removed, and the net cost to the taxpayers would be zero.

No bubba. The SS trust fund holds 3 Trillion in securities. Look it up. Don’t guess. It’s up to the govt to pay for the benefits as these securities are “ cashed in” to cover the difference. No bubba, in the past we routinely raise the cap to pay for these….we didn’t just charge more or limit benefits everytime.
Are you crazy ? For decades the SS surplus bought up these securities to go into the general fund. Cashing them in requires that the govt pay for them by increasing the cap ( taxes)

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

I'll add it to the list.

You need to learn about RR retirement.

Funny, they don't whine about that.

Those guys retired wealthy. In the '80's and '90's they retired millionaires. When they retired they got raises in pay by drawing from their pensions instead of getting paychecks.
AND
Their kids got a huge chunk of change when they passed on.

If they were on a different retirement fund (Social Security) , as the rest of us, they wouldn't be crying about it going broke, for 44 years.

 

[sparky]

Gee thx DG

after 50odd working years i thought i could pull the SS trigger and slow down

but you want me to feel guilty about it?

~S~

 

[Dagosa]

Good God Girty! There is no "surplus" in the "trust fund." There is money remaining, but it is quickly being depleted by us Boomers who are drawing it down. If and when it runs down to zero (it won't), SS benefits CANNOT BE PAID OUT OF GENERAL FUNDS. This is part of the legal fiction that makes SS arguably Constitutional: It doesn't and can't use general fund dollars!*

If the fund were to run dry, SS would move to a pay-go arrangement, and benefits would be cut, across the board, by about 20%. But Congress will never let this happen. They would all be voted out immediately. They will come up with a solution, the main part of which will be the elimination of the cap on wages subject to the FICA tax.

___________________
* Socialized medicine, or whatever it ends up being called, will require ANOTHER "payroll tax" which wage-earners will have to pay in addition to the SS and Medicare payroll taxes. OR the Medicare tax will be dramatically increased to cover the additional cost. The hope would be that the health insurance premiums we (or our employers) pay would be removed, and the net cost to the taxpayers would be zero.

As with all Treasury bonds ( securities) the federal government can spend the proceeds on a variety of programs. But as with all bondholders, Treasury has to pay the money back, with interest. Social Security redeems the securities to pay benefits.

 

[Dagosa]

Funny, they don't whine about that.


If they were on a different retirement fund (Social Security) , as the rest of us, they wouldn't be crying about it going broke, for 44 years.

It’s not going broke. By law, it can’t.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

It’s not going broke. By law, it can’t.

No shit.
That doesn't deter RWNJ'S from saying it is.