U.S. Marines To Investigate Video of Soldiers Urinating on Corpses

[sfcalifornia]

I tell you what; you name me ONE enemy we have fought since WW II, that paid ANY attention whatever to the Geneva Conventions or any of the other niceties our troops are now FORCED to observe (primarily for the purpose of placating the uninformed opinions of a permanent civilian public who have ZERO understanding of the emotions a soldier feels in combat), and we can talk about right and wrong. Alternatively, you can put your own combat experience out here, and we can talk about right and wrong. Until then, whether the new, politically correct military that came out of the decade after Vietnam learned the right lessons from that conflict and its aftermath is a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that I am getting a bit tired of troops being pilloried in the court of public opinion, here and abroad, so people like you can FEEL good.

So people like me can FEEL good? About what?

Don't be so quick to judge. People like me can imagine soldiers, whether American or Taliban, so filled with hate for the enemy, that it would drive them to urinate on each other corpses. There is a difference between American soldiers and Taliban soldiers though. We're supposed to be the civilized ones.

You know, that last sentence is a really nice sentiment. There's only one little problem with it: the violence, fear, sheer brutality and terror of infantry combat has a way of stripping the veneer of civilization, even the basic humanity, right off a man-ANY man from ANY country. Try to imagine, when your entire world is reduced to a few feet of dirt, the men around you, and the enemy, and you are fighting for your life, just how civilized ANYONE is. Because that is the reality of it; in intense combat, you are NOT fighting for God, country, flag, the honor of the service, or your girl back home; you are fighting for your life and the lives of your buddies, because that is the only thing that has any meaning at all in those moments. Don't lecture me about being "civilized"-not after I've seen even the best of men reduced to little more than animal survival, fighting on instinct. War is not civilized; never has been, never can be, because right there at the core of it is the darkest, blackest pit of barbarism and cruelty. It is about the ugliest, nastiest enterprise a human can engage in, which is why anyone who has ever fought one never wants to fight another one. That is the hard, cold reality of it, and so long as infantry combat consists of one soldier imposing his will on another, it won't change. One more thing; if you think it is easy, or even possible for men to just switch off that level of sheer primal rage and act completely rational, human and civilized again as soon as the last round is fired, you are deluding yourself. That is not how the human mind works under those conditions. You may sweat and shake, or puke; you may kick your enemy (dead or alive), you may put another bullet in him, you may bayonet him, mutilate him, or yes, piss on him; or do anything else but what you would normally do, but you won't be completely civilized, or rational, until that moment passes, and you will know you are not; and you will live with that little revelation about yourself, for the rest of your life.

Yes, I saw the violence, fear, sheer brutality and terror of infantry combat in the eyes of the soldiers as they laughed and joked while pissing away.

Give me a break.

I can understand fighting a battle and during the course of that battle, killing an enemy and being so ramped up at the time that it would compel you to put another bullet in him, bayonet him, mutilate him or even piss on him but that moment obviously passed with this group and this video was OBVIOUSLY STAGED. It was made to be a big show. It was a bunch of soldiers who did something dumb. They should get a reprimand by the military. Their faces and participation in the viral video will determine their futures in civilian life if they ever leave the military.

 

[Cowman]

I'll put it simple for you civilians that think pissing on dead combatants is a good thing, as well as remind those who actually have served who also think pissing on the dead is a good thing..........

Whatever happened to following orders of those appointed over you? What about following the Geneva Conventions like they're supposed to? What about the Code of Conduct briefings that every military member receives annually?

We should just throw all those rules out and start acting like the Taliban?

Listen. The Geneva Conventions were put in place BECAUSE of crap like this going on during wartime. Any country that is a NATO country is expected to follow them.

To the best of my understanding, the Taliban and the Viet Cong never signed onto the conventions, which is why they ignore them.

The military I was part of from 1982 until 2002 (and yeah.......I saw conflict starting with Beruit in '83) followed the rules and provided humane treatment of prisoners, as well as didn't desecrate the dead.

Sad to see that so many people think the rules should be thrown out.

Well lets see here...according to the Geneva Convention I should have been running around Vietnam without a weapon but with big red and white targets painted on my chest, back, and head. If you know of anyone who did that and survived I would like to hear about them.

You must be a Vietnam vet. You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news. I got to see that shit as a teenager. Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters. I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life. I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages. Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it. My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand. Whatever it takes.

On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose. But the military is its own, animal. They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.

The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!

You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.


Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.

 

[Douger]

Lemme see here. Tape and photos. Dicks out. Liquid falling from end of dicks to diapers on heads.
Investigation over. Can I have my $ixty million now?
The meatheads will make a career out of it.

 

[Sunshine]

Well lets see here...according to the Geneva Convention I should have been running around Vietnam without a weapon but with big red and white targets painted on my chest, back, and head. If you know of anyone who did that and survived I would like to hear about them.

You must be a Vietnam vet. You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news. I got to see that shit as a teenager. Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters. I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life. I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages. Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it. My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand. Whatever it takes.

On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose. But the military is its own, animal. They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.

The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!

You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.


Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.

And you are a ******* idiot. But hey, we all gotta be something!

 

[The Infidel]

You must be a Vietnam vet. You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news. I got to see that shit as a teenager. Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters. I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life. I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages. Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it. My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand. Whatever it takes.

On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose. But the military is its own, animal. They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.

The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!

You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.


Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.

And you are a ******* idiot. But hey, we all gotta be something!

 

[Cowman]

You must be a Vietnam vet. You know, on the home front during that war they showed American corpses with flies all over them on the 6:00 news. I got to see that shit as a teenager. Right now, I can tell you that IMO military matters are military matters. I want to be able to sit on my deck here on the lake for the remaining few days of my life. I want my children and my grandchild to be safe from foreign savages. Therefore, I do not care how our military functions and if, in order to have those things, America has to be the biggest baddest ass on the block, the so be it. My taxes go to pay the military to do a job for me the mechanics of which I don't really care to understand. Whatever it takes.

On the home front, I will declare my issues with the police, the schools, the feds, the state, any government organization that I think has erred accidentally or on purpose. But the military is its own, animal. They can do what they like, and when they come home, I will support helping them in whatever way it takes so they can again live in the world.

The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!

You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.


Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.

And you are a ******* idiot. But hey, we all gotta be something!

Says the person who doesn't give a shit about what the military does to represent the United States, and only wishes to plug their ears and cover their eyes while living the rest of their days on the ******* deck.

A person who actually respects the military would demand that they act professional... and not like a ragtag group of militants or the enemy they are presently fighting. War doesn't have to debase disciplined soldiers. Those soldiers are simply undisciplined.

Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.

I remember that the reaction during the Battle of Mogadishu when our soldiers corpses were dragged through the streets and horribly maimed... we had many bad words to say about that. I guess it didn't matter though right? War is hell... gotta show intimidation by defiling the dead! If you were on the streets of Mogadishu, you'd probably rip apart our soldiers with your bare hands to show how big of a dick you have. Weak.

 

[Sunshine]

The military is NOT its own animal. How careless and lazy of a human being and American are you? Herp, I don't care what they do as long as they make me safe! Derp!

You're what's wrong with the state of affairs regarding our freedoms today. You're why we have the NDAA, because you want the artificial feeling of safety at any cost, no matter how much you or your fellow countrymen have to sacrifice to attain it.


Our military is supposed to be disciplined, and they should exercise that discipline when on the battlefield. When they debase themselves, they show their lack of discipline to world.

And you are a ******* idiot. But hey, we all gotta be something!

Says the person who doesn't give a shit about what the military does to represent the United States, and only wishes to plug their ears and cover their eyes while living the rest of their days on the ******* deck.

A person who actually respects the military would demand that they act professional... and not like a ragtag group of militants or the enemy they are presently fighting. War doesn't have to debase disciplined soldiers. Those soldiers are simply undisciplined.

Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.

I remember that the reaction during the Battle of Mogadishu when our soldiers corpses were dragged through the streets and horribly maimed... we had many bad words to say about that. I guess it didn't matter though right? War is hell... gotta show intimidation by defiling the dead! If you were on the streets of Mogadishu, you'd probably rip apart our soldiers with your bare hands to show how big of a dick you have. Weak.

I see your info doesn't show where you are from. You are parroting that silly shit from GWTW about how the South can't lose because we are oh so much more chivalrous than the north. Well here's a clue. We don't win wars by being chivalrous. YOUR GOVERNMENT taught that to MY government in the 1800s. We win our wars by subduing and destroying our enemies. How people in this counry have tagged on to that shit is beyond me. Now you can blow it out your ass.

 

[The Infidel]

Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.

Yep.... they NEVER do that do they?

You asshole... tell that to this guy!

**** YOU Cowpunk

 

[Cowman]

And you are a ******* idiot. But hey, we all gotta be something!

Says the person who doesn't give a shit about what the military does to represent the United States, and only wishes to plug their ears and cover their eyes while living the rest of their days on the ******* deck.

A person who actually respects the military would demand that they act professional... and not like a ragtag group of militants or the enemy they are presently fighting. War doesn't have to debase disciplined soldiers. Those soldiers are simply undisciplined.

Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.

I remember that the reaction during the Battle of Mogadishu when our soldiers corpses were dragged through the streets and horribly maimed... we had many bad words to say about that. I guess it didn't matter though right? War is hell... gotta show intimidation by defiling the dead! If you were on the streets of Mogadishu, you'd probably rip apart our soldiers with your bare hands to show how big of a dick you have. Weak.

I see your info doesn't show where you are from. You are parroting that silly shit from GWTW about how the South can't lose because we are oh so much more chivalrous than the north. Well here's a clue. We don't win wars by being chivalrous. YOUR GOVERNMENT taught that to MY government in the 1800s. We win our wars by subduing and destroying our enemies. How people in this counry have tagged on to that shit is beyond me. Now you can blow it out your ass.

I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.

My government taught that to your government in the 1800's? What is your government, the Confederacy? Slavery was awesome? What are you trying to get at?

Just go sit on your deck and don't worry your pretty little head about the awful things in the world like you prefer.

 

[Cowman]

Yep.... they NEVER do that do they?

You asshole... tell that to this guy!


**** YOU Cowpunk

Comic Sans? What a joke.

And do you not think I know that they do those things? Why else would you think I'm saying that you're just like them? You don't mind if our soldiers did those things, so why would you mind them doing it too?

Not much of a difference between your mentality and theirs, except you're on the winning side. So at least have peace with that, my friend.

 

[The Infidel]

I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.

You obviously were not born here.

I revoke your Texas citizenship

 

[Cowman]

I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.

You obviously were not born here.

I revoke your Texas citizenship

What a retard. There are lots of liberals living in Texas. And no, I wasn't born in Texas. I don't even consider myself a Texan. But I am a citizen of Texas.

Your constant use of Comic Sans shows you what a joke you are.

 

[The Infidel]

I currently reside in Texas, and have for the past ten years.

You obviously were not born here.

I revoke your Texas citizenship

What a retard. There are lots of liberals living in Texas. And no, I wasn't born in Texas. I don't even consider myself a Texan. But I am a citizen of Texas.

Your constant use of Comic Sans shows you what a joke you are.

Thank GAWD... your an insult to Texans everywhere


Oh yeah.... comic sans this

 

[Synthaholic]

Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.

Yep.... they NEVER do that do they?

You asshole... tell that to this guy!

**** YOU Cowpunk

Was that Taliban or al Qaeda?

 

[The Gadfly]

I have just one more question. Does anyone else think it ironic, that some here and elsewhere want severe punishment, even jail time, for these Marines for poor judgment in pissing on a corpse, while the likes of Robert S. McNamara, Les Aspin, and Donald Rumsfeld retained positions of honor and trust, after exhibiting judgement so poor that it amounted to criminal negligence, and was directly responsible for the deaths of many military personnel? Somehow, I think that is just maybe a tiny bit worse than pissing on a dead Taliban, and the way I see it, I would think those entrusted with national command authority would be held to at least as high a standard as a lowly enlisted Marine, but I can't recall anyone suggesting that they should have been sentenced to a term in Leavenworth or Portsmouth. I guess it's who you are, not what you did, that really matters, huh? Speaking of pissing, I think I want a concrete bust of each of those three "illustrious gentlemen", so that I may place same on a back corner of my place, where my dog and I can relieve ourselves on each one of them at least once a day. It's a piss-poor substitute for the real thing, but it will make me feel better, until I have departed this life and can then personally hunt down their sorry souls in hell, and piss on them there!

This is another great post gadfly.

I stopped posting on this thread because I did not want to appear to be a taliban sympathizer. Some of my comments were what I think will happen to these Marines, not what I want to happen to them. I agree that a terrible irony in our system of government is that those in leadership positions can get away with executing policy and actions based on poor judgement. Our military is in turn held to a higher standard with less tolerance for lapses in their judgement.

My main problems with this incident are: The foundation of the Marine Corps warrior ethos is built on discipline. That discipline took a few minutes off that day but these few minutes were seen around the world. Too much time, money, and tradition is invested in Marine snipers granting them the decision power as to who lives or dies, and they chose to tarnish that with a public display of disgusting behavior.

This violation of trust will affect others who enjoy a certain level of independence and they will now come under closer scrutiny and supervision. As an Independent Duty Corpsman, I served as a Detachment Commander and Platoon Commander in these environments and cringe when I think what would happen if any of my people would have done that. If troops want less micro-management and more responsibility, they have to earn it. My son is a Marine officer with a degree in Conflict Analysis and Resolution with a Middle East terrorism concentration. He hates the enemy more than most and has his personal opinions on pissing on the enemy that are not shared in mixed company. My advice to him on leading Marines is to still trust but verify. Let them do their jobs but keep a finger on the pulse of the unit. Be involved yet let the NCOs do their job.

I met Carlos Hathcock when we both lived in Virginia Beach. He had long since retired and had already fallen ill but his mind was still sharp and he loved his Corps. I wonder what the most famous of all Marine snipers would think about this.

Thanks, Navy. I don't believe anyone who actually read your posts here would consider you a "Taliban sympathizer"-I don't, anyway. Now, as to these particular Marines, it's pretty obvious that both common sense and discipline took a hike on this occasion, for whatever reason. I admit to being surprised that Marine snipers, who normally strike me as a highly-skilled, disciplined, and intelligent group, would do this. Staging and recording something like this is utterly stupid, it's distasteful, and yes, it's an embarrassment. On the other hand, it is also orders of magnitude below a certain Stryker Brigade "kill squad" and their acts of wanton murder just a little while back, or what happened at Abu Ghraib, for that matter. These men need to face disciplinary proceedings, but those need to be commensurate with the offense, not elevated to the same level as for those despicable atrocities. This is NOT murder or torture. In my judgment, to cast this lesser incident in a similar light, is a disservice to the Marine Corps, to the armed forces in general, to the nation, and to the personnel involved.

The unfortunate thing, sadly most likely inevitable in this age of instant communication, is that once something like this gets into the spotlight, the sense of proportion gets lost in the unpleasant glare. I've seen a "throw the book at them" mentality here (before all the circumstances and facts are even known), on the part of some contributors. It is possible, even likely, that this same attitude will affect command decisions as to what measure of discipline is appropriate. I hope it does not, but if there is a knee-jerk reaction to this, I think we both agree as to the likely outcome. What would better serve everyone in this instance, I think, is a careful consideration of how and why this breach of discipline occurred, and appropriate remedial action and disciplinary measures for the offenders.

I have gotten the impression, from several highly publicized cases in the last few years, that in the process of changing the culture from that of the Vietnam era, the military of late seem to have adopted a rather cavalier attitude with regard to throwing individuals before an Article 32 hearing and a GCM in an attempt to "make an example of them", any time there is an alleged incident that reflects negatively on the service. In several instances, it has subsequently been found that the accused were actually innocent of ANY wrongdoing whatsoever. I get the distinct and uncomfortable feeling, that there is just a little too much enthusiasm for this draconian approach; there are, after all, other options available under the UCMJ.

 

[Salt Jones]

I think some kids who were molested by Catholic priests should have pissed on the corpse of Pope John Paul II.

 

[paulitician]

Me Chinese me play joke me put pee pee...

 

[Cowman]

You obviously were not born here.

I revoke your Texas citizenship

What a retard. There are lots of liberals living in Texas. And no, I wasn't born in Texas. I don't even consider myself a Texan. But I am a citizen of Texas.

Your constant use of Comic Sans shows you what a joke you are.

Thank GAWD... your an insult to Texans everywhere


Oh yeah.... comic sans this

Comic sans what? Your childish antics are represented beautifully by Comic Sans.

And I'm an insult to Texans everywhere because I wasn't born here? What kind of logic is that? Do you have any idea how many people have moved to Texas who weren't born here? A huge ass number. You insult the Texans who have moved here to find better opportunities, like some kind of xenophobic *****.

 

[The Infidel]

What a retard. There are lots of liberals living in Texas. And no, I wasn't born in Texas. I don't even consider myself a Texan. But I am a citizen of Texas.

Your constant use of Comic Sans shows you what a joke you are.

Thank GAWD... your an insult to Texans everywhere


Oh yeah.... comic sans this

Comic sans what? Your childish antics are represented beautifully by Comic Sans.

And I'm an insult to Texans everywhere because I wasn't born here? What kind of logic is that? Do you have any idea how many people have moved to Texas who weren't born here? A huge ass number. You insult the Texans who have moved here to find better opportunities, like some kind of xenophobic *****.

Aww... did your feewing get hurt?

 

[The Infidel]

Admit it... If it was the other way around, and they were defecating on and urinating on our boys corpses, you would be calling them savages.

Yep.... they NEVER do that do they?

You asshole... tell that to this guy!

**** YOU Cowpunk

Was that Taliban or al Qaeda?

They are all terrorists, so I could give a ****.