TULIP (God calls some to atheism)

Sunsettommy

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I’m not sure why you do not find this system so vulnerable to abuse.

You should follow God on faith. He is invisible and if you are bad He will not talk to you. Just trust me. I know what God wants. Listen to me and you will be Holy in the eyes of God.

Is there any cult leader in the entire world that has never read the Bible? The Bible is hella powerful. If you have the desire to control people in any capacity the Bible is the best resource in existence.

“You can’t see God or hear God but I can. Obey me.” Do you honestly think that passes the smell test of being on the up and up?

The whole concept of God is very important for organizing societies. I get that but haven’t we grown out of that and found a more honest method ?
Of course, the evidence for God's existence is overwhelming.
They why do so many religionists say they have FAITH in God, if his existence is already overwhelming?

Faith is defined as belief with strong conviction; firm belief in something for which there may be no tangible proof; complete trust, confidence, reliance, or devotion. Faith is the opposite of doubt.

That is contradictory.
 

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vasuderatorrent

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Has anyone ever spoken to God?
It is possible but the tricky part is that it could never be proven.

Talking to God is just too convenient and too powerful. It is suspicious as heck. I have personally known people that hear from God or hear from the Holy Spirit and use it to justify large financial purchases or hasty career moves. It is almost as if they needed someone to blame in case things didn’t work out well.

I say if someone hears from God then good for you. Obey Him, bask in His glory, so on and so forth but don’t ever for one second expect me to believe you. If God is speaking to you then that is for you alone. It is nobody else’s business. If you ever tell me that bull shit and I don’t have an emotional connection with you then I will straight up call you a liar and it won’t be pleasant. Just obey God and shut the hell up.
 
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vasuderatorrent

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If you have not heard the calling then maybe you were not listening for it.
According to John Calvin God doesn’t call everyone. How did you become a more knowledgeable scholar of theology than John Calvin.

Do you realize that John Calvin’s theory actually makes sense and what you are saying leaves room for so many unanswered question?

If I don’t hear God because I suck ass then what can I do to stop sucking ass so bad?

Calvin’s theory makes it open and shut. God doesn’t call me because He is sovereign and has no obligation to call me. It is nothing that I have done wrong or right. God simply isn’t interested in me. Nobody on this planet has any authority over God sufficient enough to question His motives.

If we work from the premise that God exists then God called me to be an atheist. When God has a different purpose for me then it is up to Him to make things happen. It is not of my concern. I do not own God in the way that you do. I can’t manipulate God with my good behavior or my impeccable listening skills. Isn’t God described as the “I Am”? He just is what He is. It has squat to do with me or you.
 

Grumblenuts

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Making more sense is always fantastic, imo. But why bother with all that "God", "He", and "Him" stuff when simply being an atheist yields the same results and is so much simpler?

I understand that you're working from "the premise that God exists" but that doesn't really cover the preceding statement, "Nobody on this planet has any authority over God sufficient enough to question His motives." I mean it does and it doesn't. Semantically, yes, but what you mean specifically by "His motives" seems lacking. For example, say we have an anthropologist who works from a premise that "God exists" and has been brought up to consider all of "Creation" one among many things in "God's" domain. Such a person would seem to have a major dilemma when it comes to doing their job scientifically (impartially). They wouldn't want "to question His motives", right?
 
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Meriweather

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If I don’t hear God because I suck ass then what can I do to stop sucking ass so bad?
Maybe you don't hear God because you expect to hear Him telling you to do something. Of course, you can't believe me because as someone who has experienced God, I am clearly a liar. ;)
 

Meriweather

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If we work from the premise that God exists then God called me to be an atheist.
Then be a good atheist. You are rather bad at it, you know. To be a good atheist, you must first lose your resentment towards God. True atheists tell me there is no God of which to be resentful. Personally, I think it is only your "Total Depravity" God that does not exist.

Try to understand, God is pure love. Once one truly understand that God even loves him/her, it is immediately followed by, "If God loves me, then God loves everyone!" So go be a good atheist. If you have shielded yourself from God's love with Total Depravity, throw away that shield. Good atheists do not carry around a Shield of Total Depravity. Or the Book of Mormon. Lighten your load. Be free.
 

ding

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If you have not heard the calling then maybe you were not listening for it.
According to John Calvin God doesn’t call everyone. How did you become a more knowledgeable scholar of theology than John Calvin.

Do you realize that John Calvin’s theory actually makes sense and what you are saying leaves room for so many unanswered question?

If I don’t hear God because I suck ass then what can I do to stop sucking ass so bad?

Calvin’s theory makes it open and shut. God doesn’t call me because He is sovereign and has no obligation to call me. It is nothing that I have done wrong or right. God simply isn’t interested in me. Nobody on this planet has any authority over God sufficient enough to question His motives.

If we work from the premise that God exists then God called me to be an atheist. When God has a different purpose for me then it is up to Him to make things happen. It is not of my concern. I do not own God in the way that you do. I can’t manipulate God with my good behavior or my impeccable listening skills. Isn’t God described as the “I Am”? He just is what He is. It has squat to do with me or you.
What I realize is that its a super convenient excuse for you. It's God's fault for not calling you. It's not your fault. God is to blame. What a crock of shit. That is a textbook example of an external locus of control.

You are right though, I don't claim to be a theological scholar or philosopher. I think for the most part those guys are idiots so I don't think I would ever want to be associated with them. How the fuck does Calvin know anyway? I don't scoff at accepting knowledge on authority. Most of what we know we know because we accept it on the authority of someone else. But that does not mean we should blindly accept it.

Let's look at this from a different angle, according to you, YOU have been blindly accepting your beliefs on authority of others and look where it has gotten you. If you want to throw the baby out with bathwater, be my guest. But I would just drain the bathwater if it were me. Of course that's assuming you are genuine and not just some troll.

But either way, your ability to apply logic is fucked up. Because according to your logic you have no control over anything. Whatever happens is what God wants to happen. Which is obviously incorrect. You control your destiny. You control your choices. God's only part is let you suffer your just desserts. Thus thereby providing feedback on your decisions.

I Am does not mean God is what God is. I am means God IS. As in God is existence. God is reality. He created the material world so that we can share in His existence.
 

Taz

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What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?
The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.
Why should convincing you be important exactly?
Because people like you say that god kingdom is so fantastic, I want to see it for myself. But so far, nothing but goose eggs.
Then go and find it. No one is stopping you but you.
Just tell us how you found God so that we can use the same method. It turns out this is quite a complicated process for some reason.

Have you ever considered that God hates some people and loves others? (Like the Bible says). If God hates me then He probably doesn’t want me to find Him.

John Calvin is considered the greatest theologian of all times. John Calvin taught that God chooses some and ignores others. His theology actually makes sense and is consistent with the observation of myself and many atheists.

You seem to be an amateur theologian with a theology that makes no sense whatsoever. Are you sure that you and Calvin knew the same god?

Your theology is lacking an explanation for why God reveals Himself to you but refuses to reveal Himself to me. Calvinism explains it plainly and clearly.
Why? You aren't interested in it. You are here to amuse yourself. Besides, I don't believe you are willing or capable to do what is required. But on the off chance I have you pegged all wrong, it's simple. Die to self. Of course, simple does not necessarily mean easy.

So maybe Calvin wasn't as knowledgeable as he thought he was or as you think he was. God is reality and the only way anyone will ever see reality is to die to self. When you can do that you will see how God has worked in your life.
wtf does "die to self" means? Anything? :dunno:
It means you should stop loving yourself so much that you can't see reality.
That makes no sense. It's just some random meaningless homily.
You'll never know because you can't stop loving yourself long enough to find out.
What does loving myself have to do with an invisible being?
Go back and re-read this thread box.
Circular thinking. Didn't make sense the first time.
That's because you inserted something that wasn't there, dummy.
You have nothing but fartsmoke, you hairy ball sniffer.
 

BreezeWood

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what do you mean the religions lineage - its in all three of their books -
You and I disagree on what oral tradition is.

If my father told a story about my ancestor that his father told him and his father told him that may not match up with written records, that would be an oral tradition. You are talking about reading books and drawing your own conclusions. That’s called research. That is not called an oral tradition. Now you know what oral tradition means. You have two choices. Continue lying or stop saying “oral tradition”. I’m pretty sure I know which one you will pick. You have been obsessed with your lie about the religion of antiquity in every post you have written since the internet was invented.

I already wrote you off as a Bozo. I guess I was just hoping you would create a lie that at least attempts to validate your claim.

My final conclusion: There is no oral tradition regarding the religion of antiquity. There aren’t even two people in the world that believe in it. There is only one person.

Do you really need me to point it out or did you already know you were lying repeatedly ?
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You are talking about reading books and drawing your own conclusions - Continue lying or stop saying “oral tradition”. I’m pretty sure I know which one you will pick.
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I've made it perfectly clear from the beginning unlike you I stopped reading the christian bible after the first page of forgeries and fallacies. the concept of religion is only a metaphysical experience whether in any manner of transmission. for some there is only oral tradition and nothing more.
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26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
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you are who is guilty of what you wrote - to the extreme. christian.
.
.

I already wrote you off as a Bozo. I guess I was just hoping you would create a lie that at least attempts to validate your claim.
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that is not my impression of you -
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1617887322871.png

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however as calvin once said to be mistaken before is the better result than after.
 

ding

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What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?
The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.
Why should convincing you be important exactly?
Because people like you say that god kingdom is so fantastic, I want to see it for myself. But so far, nothing but goose eggs.
Then go and find it. No one is stopping you but you.
Just tell us how you found God so that we can use the same method. It turns out this is quite a complicated process for some reason.

Have you ever considered that God hates some people and loves others? (Like the Bible says). If God hates me then He probably doesn’t want me to find Him.

John Calvin is considered the greatest theologian of all times. John Calvin taught that God chooses some and ignores others. His theology actually makes sense and is consistent with the observation of myself and many atheists.

You seem to be an amateur theologian with a theology that makes no sense whatsoever. Are you sure that you and Calvin knew the same god?

Your theology is lacking an explanation for why God reveals Himself to you but refuses to reveal Himself to me. Calvinism explains it plainly and clearly.
Why? You aren't interested in it. You are here to amuse yourself. Besides, I don't believe you are willing or capable to do what is required. But on the off chance I have you pegged all wrong, it's simple. Die to self. Of course, simple does not necessarily mean easy.

So maybe Calvin wasn't as knowledgeable as he thought he was or as you think he was. God is reality and the only way anyone will ever see reality is to die to self. When you can do that you will see how God has worked in your life.
wtf does "die to self" means? Anything? :dunno:
It means you should stop loving yourself so much that you can't see reality.
That makes no sense. It's just some random meaningless homily.
You'll never know because you can't stop loving yourself long enough to find out.
What does loving myself have to do with an invisible being?
Go back and re-read this thread box.
Circular thinking. Didn't make sense the first time.
That's because you inserted something that wasn't there, dummy.
You have nothing but fartsmoke, you hairy ball sniffer.
Calm down, ma'am.
 

Sunsettommy

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Meriweather

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Catholic belief is faith based on reason. St. Thomas Aquinas noted that human reason, without supernatural aid, can establish the existence of God and the immortality of the soul; for those who cannot or do not engage in such strenuous intellectual activity, however, these matters are also revealed and can be known by faith.

Faith and truth cannot contradict each other.
 
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vasuderatorrent

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If we work from the premise that God exists then God called me to be an atheist.
Then be a good atheist. You are rather bad at it, you know. To be a good atheist, you must first lose your resentment towards God. True atheists tell me there is no God of which to be resentful. Personally, I think it is only your "Total Depravity" God that does not exist.

Try to understand, God is pure love. Once one truly understand that God even loves him/her, it is immediately followed by, "If God loves me, then God loves everyone!" So go be a good atheist. If you have shielded yourself from God's love with Total Depravity, throw away that shield. Good atheists do not carry around a Shield of Total Depravity. Or the Book of Mormon. Lighten your load. Be free.
God does exist in literature and in the hearts and minds of most people. That’s more powerful and chaotic than if God actually existed like a tree or something.

God takes on an unlimited number of forms. Just in this thread alone we are discussing four gods with the same name. Breezewood has a god. Meriweather has a god. Ding has a god. Then there is the one I am discussing that is in the Bible. That is four different gods. Does being an atheist deny the existence of those four gods? I am an atheist of those four gods but I still believe they exist within hearts and minds and have an impact on the world . I will just be the atheist that god wants me to be. You should recognize the contradiction. I am an atheist that believes in God.
 

Taz

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What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?
The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.
Why should convincing you be important exactly?
Because people like you say that god kingdom is so fantastic, I want to see it for myself. But so far, nothing but goose eggs.
Then go and find it. No one is stopping you but you.
Just tell us how you found God so that we can use the same method. It turns out this is quite a complicated process for some reason.

Have you ever considered that God hates some people and loves others? (Like the Bible says). If God hates me then He probably doesn’t want me to find Him.

John Calvin is considered the greatest theologian of all times. John Calvin taught that God chooses some and ignores others. His theology actually makes sense and is consistent with the observation of myself and many atheists.

You seem to be an amateur theologian with a theology that makes no sense whatsoever. Are you sure that you and Calvin knew the same god?

Your theology is lacking an explanation for why God reveals Himself to you but refuses to reveal Himself to me. Calvinism explains it plainly and clearly.
Why? You aren't interested in it. You are here to amuse yourself. Besides, I don't believe you are willing or capable to do what is required. But on the off chance I have you pegged all wrong, it's simple. Die to self. Of course, simple does not necessarily mean easy.

So maybe Calvin wasn't as knowledgeable as he thought he was or as you think he was. God is reality and the only way anyone will ever see reality is to die to self. When you can do that you will see how God has worked in your life.
wtf does "die to self" means? Anything? :dunno:
It means you should stop loving yourself so much that you can't see reality.
That makes no sense. It's just some random meaningless homily.
You'll never know because you can't stop loving yourself long enough to find out.
What does loving myself have to do with an invisible being?
Go back and re-read this thread box.
Circular thinking. Didn't make sense the first time.
That's because you inserted something that wasn't there, dummy.
You have nothing but fartsmoke, you hairy ball sniffer.
Calm down, ma'am.
Die to self. Is that like masturbating? :biggrin:
 

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