TSA: From Security to Stupid?

[jillian]

Or how about we don't grope folks or use the scanner for people who are no threat whatsoever. Why not allow people to have a thorough background check ahead of time--the U.S. passport clearance seems to be pretty thorough and could be made even more thorough--and then allow the holder to go through normal security per usual? Do you really have a problem with that? If so, why?

And yes, it does offend me to be groped in intimate places by a perfect stranger or to be forced to stand naked in front of a perfect stranger before I am allowed to get on a plane to go see my daughter or travel to Phoenix on business. If you enjoy that sort of thing, power to you.

And to make it even more galling, as Syrenn mentioned, when they let some scuzzy guy that wouldn't be allowed into a fine dining restaurant zip right through with not even a second glance but pull over the little old lady with the cane for a full pat down? It's nuts.

As far as i know they dont make you stand naked in front of anyone.

This is close enough for me.

Somebody is looking at that when it is happening. And they have recording ability to save it if they want to.

1. i have no belief that some blogger posted an actual image. so i don't believe it.

2. the person taking the image doesn't see the person going through the machine and couldn't care less about 'admiring' your body.

again, feel free not to fly.

 

[jillian]

They also run background checks on all who are in any way questionable or who are traveling with passports from places unfriendly to Israel or otherwise demonstrate factors that warrent a closer look.

Personally, when boarding a domestic flight, I think a valid U.S. Passport should exempt any of us who aren't exhibiting unusual behavior from more than a cursory look over. The USA certainly has capability of running an extensive background check on any of us before issuing that passport.

I have no problem walking through the metal detector or having personal belongings xrayed or scrutinized.

My last air trip my coat, camera, organizer containing my cellphone etc., my computer case and the computer separately went through the xray machine. I was not asked to turn on the cellphone. They did not ask me to open the computer.

Normal security measures have kept us pretty darn safe. Groping and seeing people naked adds another layer to that, but I doubt its doing much to really make us safer.

Next somebody is going to use body cavities for their homemade bomb and what then? We undergo body cavity searches before we get on the plane?

israel gets 6 flights a day. do you know how many flights go out of JFK? If you don't want to be 'groped', as you call it, feel free to use the scanner. If that offends you, feel free not to fly.

6 flights?

Bullshit

you're right... i should have said each airline and was probably diminishing, but only slightly.

now, your number... is departures aND arrivals...

that means about half of 86,235 is departures, or 43,000. .. for the entire airport. there are more than that in delta in how long? in one airport?

you cannot operate a US airport the way they do in israel. i'm sorry if it pains you not to profile muslims. too bad...

the argument against profiling... timothy mcveigh. bummer that.

 

[Oddball]

They need an image revamp.

Mebbe they could be renamed the Federal Air Transportation And Safety Service.

I can see the navy jackets with the gold acronym emblazoned across the back of them now.

 

[Foxfyre]

israel gets 6 flights a day. do you know how many flights go out of JFK? If you don't want to be 'groped', as you call it, feel free to use the scanner. If that offends you, feel free not to fly.

6 flights?

Bullshit

you're right... i should have said each airline and was probably diminishing, but only slightly.

now, your number... is departures aND arrivals...

that means about half of 86,235 is departures, or 43,000. .. for the entire airport. there are more than that in delta in how long? in one airport?

you cannot operate a US airport the way they do in israel. i'm sorry if it pains you not to profile muslims. too bad...

the argument against profiling... timothy mcveigh. bummer that.

I don't recall Timothy McVeigh triggering invasive and restrictive surveillance of American citizens. He was written off as one violent nut who had little or nothing in common with the rest of us.

So okay, we should emulate Israel (or Canada or the UK or Germany or some small country re their social services despite their tiny percentage of population when compared to the U.S., but we can't expect to utilize Israel (or Canada or UK or Germany's) security systems? I'm sure there is a rationale for that somewhere, but I haven't seen it.

Again, do you have an objection for we Americans willingly undergoing a background check or whatever is necessary to determine that we are not a threat to ourselves or others, being issued something like a passport to demonstrate that the background check was done, and then treated like normal human beings without being subjected to all the intimate violation of privacy?

 

[Ravi]

I read the "email" you received and immediately figured that it was bullshit. Two seconds of googling found out that I was correct.

It is one thing to question the security measures we are forced to endure, but why lie about what is actually going on? It just makes people look stupid.

TSA Not to Blame for This | FactCheck.org

the anti-TSA extremists haven't posted anything accurate yet, i think. If they have, it was an accident.

Yep...but inaccuracy and emotional knee jerking is all they have.

 

[Ravi]

Or how about we don't grope folks or use the scanner for people who are no threat whatsoever. Why not allow people to have a thorough background check ahead of time--the U.S. passport clearance seems to be pretty thorough and could be made even more thorough--and then allow the holder to go through normal security per usual? Do you really have a problem with that? If so, why?

And yes, it does offend me to be groped in intimate places by a perfect stranger or to be forced to stand naked in front of a perfect stranger before I am allowed to get on a plane to go see my daughter or travel to Phoenix on business. If you enjoy that sort of thing, power to you.

And to make it even more galling, as Syrenn mentioned, when they let some scuzzy guy that wouldn't be allowed into a fine dining restaurant zip right through with not even a second glance but pull over the little old lady with the cane for a full pat down? It's nuts.

As far as i know they dont make you stand naked in front of anyone.

This is close enough for me.

Somebody is looking at that when it is happening. And they have recording ability to save it if they want to.

How come they can see thru the back of his underwear but not the front?

 

[uscitizen]

I haven't heard of any Paisley alerts since bush left? Why is that?

 

[Rat in the Hat]

To have real security, we need something more than just having TSA agents operating scanners and patting people down. How do these measures stop someone from getting into line and setting off a bomb, like what happened in Moscow the other day?

They need to have agents mingling with the crowds, looking for anything out of place instead of just working the checkpoints.

But if something like that did happen here, TSA would probably do something silly like moving the checkpoints to the front doors. Which would kill off all of the shops that the airports have built.

 

[Ravi]

I haven't heard of any Paisley alerts since bush left? Why is that?

It's a well known secret that if you wear paisley underroos they can't see your junk!

 

[jillian]

To have real security, we need something more than just having TSA agents operating scanners and patting people down. How do these measures stop someone from getting into line and setting off a bomb, like what happened in Moscow the other day?

They need to have agents mingling with the crowds, looking for anything out of place instead of just working the checkpoints.

But if something like that did happen here, TSA would probably do something silly like moving the checkpoints to the front doors. Which would kill off all of the shops that the airports have built.

nothing will stop someone under those circumstances. just like nothing will stop someone blowing up their backpack while on a subway train.

there already are agents wandering through the crowds. probably not as many as there should be, though.

i think if they could shop after they came through security, the shops would do just as well.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is true that nail clippers and cuticle scissors are now allowed on flights and I carry both. Right after 9/11, however, they were not and many of us had both confiscated. We once gave up our nail clippers at security and then were amused that they were sold at kiosks in the terminal hallways on the way to our gate.

And it is true that Factcheck says that the incident with the military could not have happened. I posted it with a disclaimer that I didn't know and did not attempt to pass it off as true. It was just a good illustration for the OP. Probably I should have skipped it.

So, if we can get away from the demonization of those who are attempting to discuss this please, could we get back on topic?

If you don't mind the pat down or scanner, well fine. I have no objection to your submitting to that all you want.

But again, do you have an objection to the kind of profiling done in Israel? If so, why?

Do you have an objection to citizens going through a thorough background check in order to get a passport or other I.D. and then be given a pass on the patdown and scanner? If so, why?

 

[uscitizen]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JLPS2sHKew"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JLPS2sHKew[/ame]

 

[Oddball]

It is true that nail clippers and cuticle scissors are now allowed on flights and I carry both. Right after 9/11, however, they were not and many of us had both confiscated. We once gave up our nail clippers at security and then were amused that they were sold at kiosks in the terminal hallways on the way to our gate.

And it is true that Factcheck says that the incident with the military could not have happened. I posted it with a disclaimer that I didn't know and did not attempt to pass it off as true. It was just a good illustration for the OP. Probably I should have skipped it.

So, if we can get away from the demonization of those who are attempting to discuss this please, could we get back on topic?

If you don't mind the pat down or scanner, well fine. I have no objection to your submitting to that all you want.

But again, do you have an objection to the kind of profiling done in Israel? If so, why?

Do you have an objection to citizens going through a thorough background check in order to get a passport or other I.D. and then be given a pass on the patdown and scanner? If so, why?

I have an objection to the whole Kabuki dance, along with the outright graft that went into the body scanners.

Security should be provided by the individual airlines and the TSA goobers should go out and get real productive jobs.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It's as simple as this.

No one has the "right" to fly.

If you want to get on a plane, you're gonna have to go through security. If the tiny possibility of being asked to stand in front of a blurry body scanner makes you that upset, walk to wherever you're going.

I've flown 5 times since the body scanners were put in place. I've never been patted down, or sent through the body scanners.

 

[Oddball]

I have a right to contract...The airline ticket is my contract between me and the airline.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

To have real security, we need something more than just having TSA agents operating scanners and patting people down. How do these measures stop someone from getting into line and setting off a bomb, like what happened in Moscow the other day?

They need to have agents mingling with the crowds, looking for anything out of place instead of just working the checkpoints.

But if something like that did happen here, TSA would probably do something silly like moving the checkpoints to the front doors. Which would kill off all of the shops that the airports have built.

nothing will stop someone under those circumstances. just like nothing will stop someone blowing up their backpack while on a subway train.

there already are agents wandering through the crowds. probably not as many as there should be, though.

i think if they could shop after they came through security, the shops would do just as well.

The shops would definitely take a hit. The airports built them landside so that they could get business from people other than air passengers, for example people waiting to meet someone coming in. Under the current rules, you can't get into line for security without a boarding pass. If those people have to wait outside, that's lost business for the shops.

And the few agents that walk around don't seem to be looking for anything. I've been in airports waiting for people, and none of them have given me a second glance, even when I've stood 20 feet away from the checkpoint watching what they are doing. For all anyone knew, I could have been trying to find a hole in their procedures.

One thing I did observe, they seem to pick a lot of young women for secondary screening. I wonder why that is?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It is true that nail clippers and cuticle scissors are now allowed on flights and I carry both. Right after 9/11, however, they were not and many of us had both confiscated. We once gave up our nail clippers at security and then were amused that they were sold at kiosks in the terminal hallways on the way to our gate.

And it is true that Factcheck says that the incident with the military could not have happened. I posted it with a disclaimer that I didn't know and did not attempt to pass it off as true. It was just a good illustration for the OP. Probably I should have skipped it.

So, if we can get away from the demonization of those who are attempting to discuss this please, could we get back on topic?

If you don't mind the pat down or scanner, well fine. I have no objection to your submitting to that all you want.

But again, do you have an objection to the kind of profiling done in Israel? If so, why?

Do you have an objection to citizens going through a thorough background check in order to get a passport or other I.D. and then be given a pass on the patdown and scanner? If so, why?

Because American citizens can be terrorists too.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I have a right to contract...The airline ticket is my contract between me and the airline.

It sure is. Read the fine print.

 

[uscitizen]

I have a right to contract...The airline ticket is my contract between me and the airline.

And the airline has a right to protect their property.
Do any of the airline companies want to drop TSA?

As far as I am concerned we should cut off all TSA funding, the industry can pay for it's own security or not. Let the buyer beware.

 

[Oddball]

I have a right to contract...The airline ticket is my contract between me and the airline.

And the airline has a right to protect their property.
Do any of the airline companies want to drop TSA?

Since TSA has imposed itself upon the airports, the airlines pretty much have no choice.