Try Trump at the Ballot Box, Not in Court

[MisterBeale]

I am absolutely offended that they thought they had enough evidence to raid a former president, and didn't immediately charge him with a crime, within forty-eight hours after said raid.

The fact that they have not, only confirms my suspicion, that this whole thing, from Trump's initial run for the presidency, to the rigging of the election, to Trump's going on about the theft, the plandemic, all of it. . . it is just theater to cover for the global oligarchy's selling off American sovereignty to private interests, and a new international global order.

A new order, where your vote is more meaningless, than the past few decades, or the last century.

I have less and less respect for folks that don't accept this fact after this COVID hoax. It is becoming SO abundantly clear. They won't charge anyone in the DNC for their obvious crimes, from Hillary to Joe and Hunter, and now? Trump?



JC folks, when the hell are you all going to wake up, and stop playing pretend?

 

[schmidlap]

Do you think Trump should be allowed to defend himself at some point, or not really?

Indeed. He should have testified under oath before the January 6 congressional committee like so many patriotic Republican officeholder and Trump regime insiders.

His refusing to, and ordering his lickspittles to defy subpoenas, and his and their all pleading their right not to self-incriminate hundreds of times, is his defense, apparently.

 

[konradv]

Last week, responding to Damon Linker’s persuasive arguments about the dangers of criminally prosecuting Trump, I ventured that we might have to sacrifice justice on the altar of prudence. The column provoked a fierce backlash, and while it may seem odd to say this, I’m in sympathy with my critics, and offer these reflections in all modesty. I may be wrong. Perhaps the right path is to pursue justice “though the Heavens fall.” But we cannot pretend that there is no risk to this path. In fact, the stakes could not be higher—the stability of our society—so it’s worth considering all of the possible outcomes before barreling forward.

The prosecute-and-be-damned party believes fervently that any hesitation to hold Trump criminally liable for his crimes amounts to appeasement and cowardly submission to what Michelle Goldberg calls “the insurrectionists’ veto.” Acknowledging that some on the right are “heavily armed” and speaking “lustily of civil war,” she objects that “The far right is constantly threatening violence if it doesn’t get its way. Does anyone truly believe that giving in to its blackmail will make it less aggressive?”

It’s a great point. The very worst part about refraining from prosecuting Trump is that it would seem to be a victory for bullying and intimidation. I concede that, and it burns. When Trump riles up his mobs and then threatens to unleash them on his opponents, one’s natural reaction is unprintable (by me anyway). It is precisely when he acts like a Mafia don or a fascist that the urge to slap him down with every available weapon is strongest.

Try Trump at the Ballot Box, Not in Court

Trials are too uncertain to risk the republic.

www.thebulwark.com

One can hardly imagine a greater indictment of the POT than essentially saying, "if the overwhelming evidence of Trump's guilt is not enough to secure a conviction, or even if it is, prosecution is a dangerous endeavor because it would become a circus-like spectacle. Don would take advantage of it in ways that would be damaging to the republic and cause his cult to rally behind him." IOW, The Following is too Crazy to risk it. So let the criminal go free?

The rebuttal. To Charge or Not to Charge

Why, because he has a better chance of winning an election than a court case?

 

[Lastamender]

Trying him at the ballot box has already been done.
In 2020.
The problem with this in the case of Trump is obvious.
If he (and his low-information minions) refuse to accept the results of any election in which they don't win then there is only one other recourse;
trial and conviction.

The challenge to that election still stands and is perfectly legal. People should not be punished for exercising a Constitutional right. Besides the fraud was obvious to a child but not a dishonest adult.

 

[konradv]

I am absolutely offended that they thought they had enough evidence to raid a former president, and didn't immediately charge him with a crime, within forty-eight hours after said raid.

The fact that they have not, only confirms my suspicion, that this whole thing, from Trump's initial run for the presidency, to the rigging of the election, to Trump's going on about the theft, the plandemic, all of it. . . it is just theater to cover for the global oligarchy's selling off American sovereignty to private interests, and a new international global order.

A new order, where your vote is more meaningless, than the past few decades, or the last century.

I have less and less respect for folks that don't accept this fact after this COVID hoax. It is becoming SO abundantly clear. They won't charge anyone in the DNC for their obvious crimes, from Hillary to Joe and Hunter, and now? Trump?



JC folks, when the hell are you all going to wake up, and stop playing pretend?

That meme seems to have more to do with the Trump administration than anything. He lies, cheats and steals, but y’all are willing to vote for him anyway.

 

[Lastamender]

Indeed. He should have testified under oath before the January 6 congressional committee like so many patriotic Republican officeholder and Trump regime insiders.

His refusing to, and ordering his lickspittles to defy subpoenas, and his and their all pleading their right not to self-incriminate hundreds of times, is his defense, apparently.

You have being patriotic upside down. You are now a fascist.

 

[MisterBeale]

The President doing what he wants is nothing new and i find it extremely humorous when goobers like this act like it is.

Agreed.

And that is really what it come down to.

Any honest trial of the president, with non-corrupt judges? Would reveal the corruption in the system. They could not possibly expose Trump's lawlessness, without exposing their own.

From one of the nation's top lawyers;

Litigation by Leak: Government Officials Leak New Details on the Mar-a-Lago Raid While Continuing to Oppose Disclosures in Court​

Litigation by Leak: Government Officials Leak New Details on the Mar-a-Lago Raid While Continuing to Oppose Disclosures in Court
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/08/...le-continuing-to-oppose-disclosures-in-court/

How Merrick Garland Missed Four Chances to Earn the Public Trust on Mar-a-Lago​

https://jonathanturley.org/2022/08/22/how-merrick-garland-missed-four-chances-to-earn-the-public-trust-on-mar-a-lago/

 

[Lastamender]

That meme seems to have more to do with the Trump administration than anything. He lies, cheats and steals, but y’all are willing to vote for him anyway.

That makes him different from Biden how?

 

[BlindBoo]

Actually, one led to the other

Trump got badly beaten in the election and his post election antics led to Impeachment and criminal investigations

Can't disagree with that.

 

[Mac1958]

I read that opinion piece.

For me, personally, if the evidence is such that the experienced heads at the DOJ think there is a legitimate persuasive case for demonstrating Don Trump's intent and willful disobedience of our laws......well, charge him. Indict him. Arrest him.

And, if early warning signals indicate that the RWNJ/Q-Anon/Trumper-world will cause more damage than we are willing to accept.....then Biden can pardon him.

1. Our 'rule-of-law'......our 'no-man-is-above-the-law' ethic mandates we be disciplined and firm in enforcing both against any charged lawbreaker.
2. But, he is the ex-president of the U.S. He's a 'Golden Pheasant' as Germany used to call it's bigwigs of the 1930's & '40's.......And that means, he ain't Joe-the-Plumber. So, yes. Other rules exist as sort of societal release-valves.
3. Which brings us to President Biden's pardoning power.

Yeah, this all seems relatively clear.

First, if he broke the law, nail him. And yes, on any other matter, if anyone from EITHER party broke the law, nail them too. And anyone who helped them. I don't care.

Second, while we'd almost certainly see the threatened White Nationalist terrorism we keep hearing about, any guilty verdicts he received wouldn't change what has happened to the GQP, and that's more important.

A rogue President absolutely has to pay the price, if for no other reason than to discourage FUTURE rogue Presidents. But the problem this country is now facing goes far beyond some Narcissistic Personality Disorder-suffering, metrosexual Mar-A-Lago resident.

 

[Lastamender]

Actually, one led to the other

Trump got badly beaten in the election and his post election antics led to Impeachment and criminal investigations

Trump was not beaten, he was cheated. No one believes your Big Lie except liars. Fail.

 

[MisterBeale]

That meme seems to have more to do with the Trump administration than anything. He lies, cheats and steals, but y’all are willing to vote for him anyway.

All of them "lie, cheat, and steal," not just Trump. Garland and Biden do that shit too.

If you are in denial of that? You don't understand, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

As the old American saying goes, "‘Politicians are a lot like diapers because they need to be changed for the same reason."

I don't vote when I see the folks they are giving me as choices, are phonies. Careful in your accusations.

I know what political legitimacy is, do you?

 

[konradv]

All of them "lie, cheat, and steal," not just Trump. Garland and Biden do that shit too.

If you are in denial of that? You don't understand, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

As the old American saying goes, "‘Politicians are a lot like diapers because they need to be changed for the same reason."

I don't vote when I see the folks they are giving me as choices, are phonies. Careful in your accusations.

I know what political legitimacy is, do you?

If they all lie, cheat and steal, what is this political legitimacy you’re talking about, because that would mean Trump doesn’t have any either?!?!

 

[Astrostar]

Why can’t we do both?

A trial makes more sense; it's what we do to criminals in this country.

 

[MisterBeale]

If they all lie, cheat and steal, what is this political legitimacy you’re talking about, because that would mean Trump doesn’t have any either?!?!

If you voted in 2016, whether, "your," candidate won or lost, because you voted, you gave the system, legitimacy. By voting, you told those, who run the system, that you endorse it.

IOW? YOU are the one that gave Trump his legitimacy.



The same is true of any election, anyone who votes in it, whether their candidate wins or loses, gives the winner, legitimacy. A vote in the election, is an endorsement of the system, and thus, it backs whomever wins, and that ruler's actions as president or prime minister, becomes, legitimate. (This is political legitimacy for democracy only.)

This is why, nearly half the population, DOES NOT believe, our system is any longer, legitimate. They don't believe that the person who got the most votes, is the person that was seated. They honestly believe, the system has been subverted. It doesn't matter what the truth is, if that is what half the population believes. That is the nature of power.


This is why a lot of nations will fine their citizens, (mostly "subjects," of the crown,) if they do not vote, for they fear if the system does not get a plurality of participation, it loses political legitimacy.

This is another reason, we get so much government and corporate propaganda every election season, for folks to get out and vote. The ruling oligarchy greatly fears an apathetic public, that will abstain from voting, and political participation. If they no longer vote, the ruling classes really no longer have a right to tax them, go to war in their name, etc. Folks not voting, decreases political legitimacy of those in power.

This is regardless of which incompetent, corrupt, lying, cheating, thieving clowns, they force us to choose between, to represent their interests to rule over us.





(IMO? the real fraud of that last election, is the establishment telling us there was more participation than there actually was. I am very skeptical of that, I really am. THAT, is the BIG LIE, IMO.)

 

[schmidlap]

You have being patriotic upside down. You are now a fascist.

Because I support democratic elections, peaceful, transfers of power, our system of jurisprudence, and maintaining law and order, rather than trying fake elector scams, intimidating Republican officeholders, joining goon attacks on Congress, and threatening public servants?

Trump refuses to accept Biden's Win​

Barack And Michelle Obama Welcome The Trumps​

Trump legal team loses election challenges 59 out of 60 ...​

What you need to know about the fake Trump electors​

Trump threatens GOP Arizona Governor Ducey​

Trump threatens Raffensperger​

Trump incites mob in violent end to presidency​

Trump supporters send death threats to judge​

Trump supporters are threatening FBI agents​

I see where you're coming from.

 

[jknowgood]

Not pertinent to the discussion.

Lol, with the raid, you idiots gave him the Whitehouse.

 

[Lastamender]

Because I support democratic elections, peaceful, transfers of power, our system of jurisprudence, and maintaining law and order, rather than trying fake elector scams, intimidating Republican officeholders, joining goon attacks on Congress, and threatening public servants?

Trump refuses to accept Biden's Win​

Barack And Michelle Obama Welcome The Trumps​

Trump legal team loses election challenges 59 out of 60 ...​

What you need to know about the fake Trump electors​

Trump threatens GOP Arizona Governor Ducey​

Trump threatens Raffensperger​

Trump incites mob in violent end to presidency​

Trump supporters send death threats to judge​

Trump supporters are threatening FBI agents​

I see where you're coming from.

Fake News

Shill.

 

[BackAgain]

Last week, responding to Damon Linker’s persuasive arguments about the dangers of criminally prosecuting Trump, I ventured that we might have to sacrifice justice on the altar of prudence. The column provoked a fierce backlash, and while it may seem odd to say this, I’m in sympathy with my critics, and offer these reflections in all modesty. I may be wrong. Perhaps the right path is to pursue justice “though the Heavens fall.” But we cannot pretend that there is no risk to this path. In fact, the stakes could not be higher—the stability of our society—so it’s worth considering all of the possible outcomes before barreling forward.

The prosecute-and-be-damned party believes fervently that any hesitation to hold Trump criminally liable for his crimes amounts to appeasement and cowardly submission to what Michelle Goldberg calls “the insurrectionists’ veto.” Acknowledging that some on the right are “heavily armed” and speaking “lustily of civil war,” she objects that “The far right is constantly threatening violence if it doesn’t get its way. Does anyone truly believe that giving in to its blackmail will make it less aggressive?”

It’s a great point. The very worst part about refraining from prosecuting Trump is that it would seem to be a victory for bullying and intimidation. I concede that, and it burns. When Trump riles up his mobs and then threatens to unleash them on his opponents, one’s natural reaction is unprintable (by me anyway). It is precisely when he acts like a Mafia don or a fascist that the urge to slap him down with every available weapon is strongest.

Try Trump at the Ballot Box, Not in Court

Trials are too uncertain to risk the republic.

www.thebulwark.com

One can hardly imagine a greater indictment of the POT than essentially saying, "if the overwhelming evidence of Trump's guilt is not enough to secure a conviction, or even if it is, prosecution is a dangerous endeavor because it would become a circus-like spectacle. Don would take advantage of it in ways that would be damaging to the republic and cause his cult to rally behind him." IOW, The Following is too Crazy to risk it. So let the criminal go free?

The rebuttal. To Charge or Not to Charge

I suspect that mud-berg is a plant. A disinformation agent of the left. It therefore seems likely that the left is starting to get a bit skittish regarding their fuck up. They thought (ie, they miscalculated) that an FBI raid on Trump would cause the Trump supporters to finally crack. Instead, inadvertently, they actually bolstered support for him.

Their miscalculation requires some corrective actions, now. So, their talking point memos to their pathetic operatives seem to include some trial balloons. “Let’s start a groundswell of support for the notion of not going after Trump by misusing the legal system. Instead, let’s just go after him in a more proper fashion. Old style politics. Hm. Yeah. Let’s see if we can motivate the people to ask to ‘beat him with the ballot’ instead.”

 

[MagicMike]

The challenge to that election still stands and is perfectly legal. People should not be punished for exercising a Constitutional right. Besides the fraud was obvious to a child but not a dishonest adult.

expand...

"The challenge to that election still stands and is perfectly legal."

You apparently have a very loose definition of the word "legal."

ALL of the election challenges have been thoroughly investigated, audited, recounted, challenged in court(s) and subsequently thrown out for lack of merit (meaning the people charging "election fraud," including Trump's attorneys, CAN'T produce any PROOF of actual fraud).

Unfortunately I suppose it may be technically "legal" for you sore loosers to continue screaming "fraud" out there but is it what is best for our country?
Probably not.
And it is DEFINITELY not legal to encourage political violence over sour grapes like Trump did sending his bitter clingers into the U.S. Capitol to stop the peaceful transfer of power and overthrow democracy.

"People should not be punished for exercising a Constitutional right."

Who is being punished for excercising which constitutional right?

"Besides the fraud was obvious to a child but not a dishonest adult."

Either refer to my comment above.....or FINALLY provide some PROOF of fraud (2000 Mules doesn't count)....
or maybe just shut up and accept the fact that Trump LOST!