CDZ True civilization should be our goal!

DonaldFG

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One would expect a successful species to function in coordination and cooperation with each other for their common good. Since there is strength in numbers, this should especially be true the more intelligent the species. The insect populations seem to have this principle down pat, but the dominate life forms have problems. For both primates and humans, for example, the local groups (families, communities, etc.) cooperate generally well. As the scope of observation broadens, however, we see conflicts.

THE PEOPLE'S HISTORY

(Surviving against the odds)

Why is this true when so much more could be achieved through intelligent cooperation?

b2ap3_thumbnail_250px-Caveman_1.jpg


Why is this true when so much more could be achieved through intelligent cooperation? It's not hard to imagine your answers to this, but let's think about it for a few minutes. My analysis may seem too simplistic to you, but consider the principle of Occam's razor first. What causes our serious conflicts and disagreements? During prehistoric times, human groups not familiar with each other didn't understand the other's culture. And before large scale villages formed, there likely were very few leaders looking to establish power positions. Most people just wanted to survive and nurture their families. We humans were just learning what resources were out there and what we could do with them. It's most probable given specific circumstances that many individuals and groups learned that they could do far better with each others help - "strength (and power) in numbers". At the time represented by the image, everyone was basically equal. Going forward many millennia and Before the European influence grew very large in America, native Americans were well on their way to establishing governments organized from the ground up - power was dispersed not that different than the Greek invention of democracy. Check out these Wikipedia articles for more: Native Americans in the United States and Great Law of Peace. (The above graphic is from Wikipedia's article on "Caveman".)

The "Native Americans" article has this statement: The indigenous cultures were quite different from those of the proto-industrial and mostly Christian immigrants. Many native cultures were matrilineal and occupied hunting grounds and agricultural lands for use of the entire community. Europeans at that time had patriarchal cultures and had developed concepts of individual property rights with respect to land that were extremely different.

THE ALBATROSS OF WAR

(Impeding Human Progress)

I have always been a "big picture" sort of person, always trying to figure out why our human societies have so many problems. I tend to concentrate far more on national and international news then local stuff - in other words things that effect humanity as a whole. Yes, we need to pay attention to local happenings, especially municipal political moves that impact our lives. BUT, from where does most of the impact on us really come? The things that impact us most are decisions made by our national and international leaders - not the Mayor or other official of "our town". Our Kings, Premiers, Presidents (along with their so-called parliaments, congresses, etcetera) make decisions that have huge impacts on us all the time - it matters not what economic system is used. They make wars (which are actually power grabs between themselves, not their peoples). They make laws to keep us in our place politically, thus making it extremely difficult to get them out of power. And as these leaders gain experience with their power, their propaganda is more and more convincing.
Examine closely the majority of the population of any and all of the conflicted countries, and you will see that "Most people just want to survive and nurture their families". The majority don't have hatred directed at other nations or cultures, as long as they are left alone. In times of conflict, these are the people who become refugees. And they are the majorities! Any hatred that develops is the result of their peaceful lives being destroyed by outside forces, whether from inside or outside their own nation.

War is one thing that impacts us in a big way (and exposed for what it is by General Smedley Butler in his book - War is A Racket), but that is only the tip of the political iceberg that keeps the human population from blossoming forth with all of its potential for achievement and success. Our intelligence is obvious by what we have achieved in the last 10,000 years. But try to imagine how far we could have gone if our society were functioning without the political albatross of power holding us down as it has!

We, the people, deserve to be able to live in peace without being forced into wars for the profit of a minority elite. Just about every nation in recorded history has had this problem, and except for the actions of their rulers there would be no wars because the majority of people just want to live in peace! But let one ruler decide to try to expand his range of power and get his people to attack another nation (mostly through lies to his own troops), and you then have foreign people getting clobbered for nothing. And they have to fight back of course. When nations grow too large and their national government slips out of control by its citizens, empires are formed. Due to the lack of attention by citizens just living their lives, governments are taken over by officials who work for their own interests rather than the peoples while these officials lie about doing the people's bidding. Unfortunately, American citizens as a whole ignored the exceptionally profound statements made in the farewell address by President Dwight Eisenhower. This is not something to take lightly!


(The above video does not seem to be working here.)
Our government today is what happens when people are not permitted to rule their own lives. War is something that impacts us all, but laws made up by a ruling minority create all sorts of problems for citizens. Some laws may seem good for some folks, but be bad for others - occasionally very bad. Laws that produce good results for everyone are few and far between - their best chance to get passed are dependent on whether they effect the rulers negatively.

FLIPPING THE RULES

(Majority Power)

Now the question for the majority of us is do we want to continue repeating our violent and unsatisfying history in this way? Will we never learn what we are doing, and what is being done to us? Although we have described ourselves as civilized, I would say we are still barbarians by our actions. Our kind has learned to work together and cooperate in the past for the common good, and with our intelligence there is no reason we cannot get our act together and make a better world for everyone globally. The USA is in a unique position today to set an example for all other nations considering its world dominance. But the use of military dominance impresses no one; it only make others mad.

In the United States, our ruling elite have so established themselves in power that anyone trying to change the current political structure has no chance using the system as it is. No chance! Candidates for significant public offices are filtered early on, even before campaigns begin. Those who would upset the "apple cart" from within the two dominant political parties are marginalized by the corporate media which is fully integrated into the political system. Recent cases are Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, and Mike Gravel. Third party or independent candidates sometimes make it into office due to enormous public support, which is hard to come by to say the least considering the landslide of misleading propaganda about them. Ross Perot and Ralph Nader came close for President- but no cigar there.

Violent human history continues to repeat itself with most of us apparently learning nothing in the process. The American pendulum (and that of other nations) of social progress versus social destruction swings back and forth over each generation as its citizens relax during good times and forget what caused the previous generations bad times.
This upside-down power structure will destroy us if it continues. When the minority elite refuses to share a nations wealth, that nation eventually collapses (check history). Only countries that allow the majority of their people to live wholesome satisfying lives continue with reasonable majority support of its citizens. Our government makes the laws that rule us, and most American citizens are not finding the direction of late very satisfying. Elected officials often admit that their clients are really corporate lobbyists, not individual citizens from their districts. Therefore, the government that rules us is not ours (but it should be). Major corporations pay little or no tax, while us average Joes must surrender a big chunk of our income. And worse, many laws that govern us are actually written by corporations themselves or by organizations they hire. These writeups are then handed over to a willing law maker. Laws exist that forbid us from saying anything negative against certain corporate products. For example, Oprah Winfrey was sued when she said something negative about hamburgers. She ultimately won in court because our Constitution protected her, but she endured a huge unnecessary hassle that discourages others from saying anything similar publicly. Meanwhile, laws that protect the people are disappearing or are being ignored.

There is only one way the majority of citizens can have the sort of future we all dream about for ourselves and future generations. Freedom is not simply being able to go where you want, and buy what you can afford. Our species has the ability to create a far more elaborate scenario for us. We need to learn to nurture our society as a whole (including all cultures within it), rather than just as individuals. The common good needs to be raised to the top of our priority lists. We need a society that allows everyone to enjoy the benefits of new technologies, benefits that raise the lifestyle for everyone. To become truly civilized, we need to think in terms of one for all and all for one. We need to end the "war racket" which destroys what we have built, and begin our full force defense against the threats coming from nature - and there are plenty of those as we have seen. We need defense against disease, violent storms, earthquakes, threats from space like asteroids, etc. We should not have to defend ourselves against ourselves. We need to learn to care for our planet that makes life possible for us and our fellow creatures. There is so much more we can accomplish if we learn to cooperate and work together! This is our reality. If we set the goals we all desire for our society, our future will not become the disaster that most Hollywood action movies depict (example: Terminator, a classic portrayal of human created disaster).
 
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9thIDdoc

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First you must define what you mean by "True Civilization".
 

9thIDdoc

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"All societies are based on rules to protect pregnant women and young children. All else is surplus age, excrescence, adornment, luxury or folly which can--and must--be dumped in emergency to preserve this prime function. As racial survival is the only universal morality, no other basic is possible. Attempts to formulate a “perfect society” on any foundation other than “women and children first!” is not only witless, it is automatically genocidal. Nevertheless, starry-eyed idealists (all of them male) have tried endlessly--and no doubt will keep on trying.?"

Robert Heinlein
 

9thIDdoc

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""Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort"

Robert Heinlein
 
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DonaldFG

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First you must define what you mean by "True Civilization".
That's easy, and should be obvious. A society is not civilized if it allows violence of any kind, especially war!
 
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DonaldFG

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""Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort"

Robert Heinlein
The Heinlein quotes are on the shallow side when it comes to defining civilization. Although I will say that those who want to disrupt society are very small in number, and yes, they need to be controlled. Most people want to live in peace with others.

A better definition of the goal we should have is called a "Type 1 Civilization. Doctor Michio Kaku's analysis in the following video makes a lot of sense, but I think he is wrong about the source of violent terrorism. These people are not trying to stop societies advancement towards peace and progress. They are trying to stop corporate globalism from stealing their resources and hurting their people without proper compensation for those resources. Check out the video by Michio Kaku.


 

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One would expect a successful species to function in coordination and cooperation with each other for their common good.
Human nature, evolved from predatory mammals, works against this.
How do you propose we undo what several million years worth of evolution has programmed into our DNA?
Why do you want to undo nature?
 

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While I applaud the sentiment, I'm afraid the human race is on borrowed time. We wont be around indefinitely. Projections of the aquisition of WMDs by terror groups who'd absolutely use them isn't cheerful or encouraging. Anything without zero chance of occuring has a 100% chance of occuring given unlimited time. So since nuclear weapons exist in many places, their aquisition is an absolute certainty. And while a few aren't a civlization-ending concern, other things are.

The pace at which we're delving into genetic research is perhaps the more alarming fact. It's not hard to envision a genetic weapon which targets genes common to human beings, or more terrifyingly, specific groups of human beings. A weapon of mass destruction which can be deployed discreetly is the holy grail of weapons research. A nuclear detonation is overt. A genetic plague may not be recognized as deliberate.

Climate change too is a global threat. Rising sea levels from melting land ice will force low-lying nations' populations further inland. People forced to live in close-quarters never do very well and a cascade-like reaction is easily imagined. As less and less land is above the oceans, there's fewer places for everyone to live, less land for farming, less food and more starvation, social unrest and crime, more wars over dwindling resources, etc.

A combination of things like these few could easily end the human race. To say nothing of a much more rapid threat like a big rock hitting the planet. If we're not going to take planetary defense seriously and devise countermeasures to asteroid impacts we're doomed and a lot sooner than climate change or other concerns.

Toss in Yellowstone's supervolcano erupting, west quake megaquake, other supervolcanoes around the world cooking off and our continued presence as the dominant species on this planet becomes unlikely.
 

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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects"

Robert Heinlein
 
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DonaldFG

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One would expect a successful species to function in coordination and cooperation with each other for their common good.
Human nature, evolved from predatory mammals, works against this.
How do you propose we undo what several million years worth of evolution has programmed into our DNA?
Why do you want to undo nature?
I don't want to undo nature. Did you read the beginning of my article? Our original nature is to cooperate.
 
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DonaldFG

DonaldFG

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M14 Shooter

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One would expect a successful species to function in coordination and cooperation with each other for their common good.
Human nature, evolved from predatory mammals, works against this.
How do you propose we undo what several million years worth of evolution has programmed into our DNA?
Why do you want to undo nature?
I don't want to undo nature. Did you read the beginning of my article? Our original nature is to cooperate.
False. "Original" human nature is NOT to cooperate but, like all other predatory mammals, to compete.
 

M14 Shooter

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First you must define what you mean by "True Civilization".
That's easy, and should be obvious. A society is not civilized if it allows violence of any kind, especially war!
Why would a "civilization" not allow violence in self-defense?
Your not referring to a civilization. A civilization would be global. Self defense is not needed, except for those few trouble maker individuals.
And why would a "civilization" not allow violence in self-defense against those few trouble-maker individuals?
If one tried to kill me, would "civilization" not allow me to defend myself with any necessary violence?
 
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DonaldFG

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While I applaud the sentiment, I'm afraid the human race is on borrowed time. We wont be around indefinitely. Projections of the aquisition of WMDs by terror groups who'd absolutely use them isn't cheerful or encouraging. Anything without zero chance of occuring has a 100% chance of occuring given unlimited time.
...

Toss in Yellowstone's supervolcano erupting, west quake megaquake, other supervolcanoes around the world cooking off and our continued presence as the dominant species on this planet becomes unlikely.
Thanks for agreeing on our serious natural threats! I say again, why should we humans continue to threaten ourselves when we have so much from nature to deal with?


We likely won't be around indefinitely if we continue our current trends. But this is definitely not necessary. We have the intelligence to change our ways and beginning cooperating for a global economic and technological future. If we can get past the endless war propaganda our governments dish out to retain power over us, we can take those few trouble makers out of power by simply no longer supporting them.


Yes, our weapons are getting more powerful. So we must stop letting the leaders of our nations make them. We, the people, don't need them in such vast quantities.
 
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DonaldFG

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False. "Original" human nature is NOT to cooperate but, like all other predatory mammals, to compete.
Research into ancient prehistoric cultures being unearthed by scientists is showing otherwise, as my article implies. We are not naturally predatory against each other, only to our food supply. All this violent behavior is a learned result of wars over the millennia. We need to unlearn that. We can change starting with educating our children properly.

There is a lot more about human behavior in TVP Magazine, Issue 3 on page 30.

TVP Magazine Issue no. 03
 
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DonaldFG

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...
And why would a "civilization" not allow violence in self-defense against those few trouble-maker individuals?
If one tried to kill me, would "civilization" not allow me to defend myself with any necessary violence?
Everyone has the right to defend themselves. But your first course of action should be to alert police about the threat if possible. So, we will always need police, but not armies.
 

M14 Shooter

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False. "Original" human nature is NOT to cooperate but, like all other predatory mammals, to compete.
Research into ancient prehistoric cultures being unearthed by scientists is showing otherwise, as my article implies
We are not naturally predatory against each other, only to our food supply.
Immaterial. We're predators.
As such, we ultimately compete for what we need/want.
Sure, we -can- come together and help one another, but when TSHTF, we fight -- and we win, or we die.
Winners pass their genes, the losers genes die out - and the species is made stronger; artificially supporting the weak, sick, slow and stupid only strains limited resources and weakens the species.
All this violent behavior is a learned result of wars over the millennia.
All of those wars stem from, at the most basic level, humanity's nature as predatory mammals..

And so...
Human nature, evolved from predatory mammals, works against your scheme..
How do you propose we undo what several million years worth of evolution has programmed into our DNA?
Why do you want to undo nature?
 
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koshergrl

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One would expect a successful species to function in coordination and cooperation with each other for their common good.
Human nature, evolved from predatory mammals, works against this.
How do you propose we undo what several million years worth of evolution has programmed into our DNA?
Why do you want to undo nature?
I don't want to undo nature. Did you read the beginning of my article? Our original nature is to cooperate.
Our original nature is to have children with our brothers and sisters and engage in cannibalism.
 

M14 Shooter

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...
And why would a "civilization" not allow violence in self-defense against those few trouble-maker individuals?
If one tried to kill me, would "civilization" not allow me to defend myself with any necessary violence?
Everyone has the right to defend themselves. But your first course of action should be to alert police about the threat if possible
Thus, your "civilization" allows for the use of violence by the people in self-defense and by the state in the enforcement of the law.

And so, what of your statement that "A society is not civilized if it allows violence of any kind"?
 
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