Zone1 Trinity and Prayer

[Cougarbear]

Well I am honestly not being facetious here when I say that when we believe that God, Son and Holy Spirit are one does it matter? I don't pray to the Holy Spirit but I'm conscious of the presence, especially at those miraculous times when you feel a nudge or the Spirit takes over for a bit. At those times I am immediately conscious and aware of the Holy Spirit. I doubt anyone could really fathom what that is like until they experience it and I'm not sure it can be experienced without a personal relationship with the One. It is all so wonderful and at the same time so much a mystery. I sure hope I get my questions answered when I get to Heaven.

While I disagree with some of your doctrine, I totally agree with your lesson that we have to experience the Holy Ghost before understanding it or even acknowledging it. That's why the atheists and naysayers here will never agree with believers in the God of Israel.

 

[kjw47]

Once again, you are just plain stupid. You can't read nor comprehend. You spew out garbage from your scholars who are two-bit liars and fake prophets. I never called spirit prison Hades or Hell. I said spirit prison is where all spirits await for their resurrection. Some where when they were on earth were bad and some were good and/or repented of their bad things they did. Let me explain one more time because you are incredibly slow. It's a prison because those in spirit prison cannot progress further in the Father's plan until their resurrection.
In any event, Big M put you in your place by showing you read on to verse 12 to help you understand.

Show me in the bible where it teaches a literal spirit prison. Oh you can't. Yet you call me stupid.

 

[Cougarbear]

Show me in the bible where it teaches a literal spirit prison. Oh you can't. Yet you call me stupid.

For the 100th time, 1Peter chapters 3 and 4.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes the darkness rejects truth.
Just as you have been shown about not calling any man taking the lead in a religion-Father, you reject that truth as well. Why? Because your religion does=darkness.

Choosing to attack another's faith goes nowhere.

 

[Meriweather]

Well I am honestly not being facetious here when I say that when we believe that God, Son and Holy Spirit are one does it matter? I don't pray to the Holy Spirit but I'm conscious of the presence, especially at those miraculous times when you feel a nudge or the Spirit takes over for a bit. At those times I am immediately conscious and aware of the Holy Spirit. I doubt anyone could really fathom what that is like until they experience it and I'm not sure it can be experienced without a personal relationship with the One. It is all so wonderful and at the same time so much a mystery. I sure hope I get my questions answered when I get to Heaven.

Good point! Even so, I would like to know and understand God to the extent possible, and being more alert to how God works is one approach to that.

 

[Foxfyre]

While I disagree with some of your doctrine, I totally agree with your lesson that we have to experience the Holy Ghost before understanding it or even acknowledging it. That's why the atheists and naysayers here will never agree with believers in the God of Israel.

And it is why I am always careful to be gentle with them. I shudder to think how many do not know the Lord because of the hateful or ugly way He has been introduced to those who do not yet know him.

 

[Foxfyre]

Good point! Even so, I would like to know and understand God to the extent possible, and being more alert to how God works is one approach to that.

I can appreciate that and I would never discourage you. I long ago stopped trying to figure out God though. I figure if I, a mere created mortal, were able to do that, He would be much lesser of a God than I think He is.

 

[Foxfyre]

Choosing to attack another's faith goes nowhere.

And if that person happens to be in error and does not know the Living God, he/she is likely to be driven farther away from that experience.

 

[Cougarbear]

And it is why I am always careful to be gentle with them. I shudder to think how many do not know the Lord because of the hateful or ugly way He has been introduced to those who do not yet know him.

That's why 1 Peter chapters 3 and 4 are so important. Jesus went and set up a missionary movement in spirit prison so that all would be judged according to those in the flesh that did not have the opportunity to hear the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[onefour1]

Romans 8:16–17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

The treasures of heaven are that if we are the children of God, then we become heirs, even joint heirs with Christ and we inherit all that the Father hath.

Doctrine and Covenants 84:38
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

 

[Foxfyre]

That's why 1 Peter chapters 3 and 4 are so important. Jesus went and set up a missionary movement in spirit prison so that all would be judged according to those in the flesh that did not have the opportunity to hear the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is a scripture that gives hope to those who fear their loved ones did not know the Lord when they left this Earthly life. It also has perhaps given license to those who choose not to know and obey the Lord on their theory that if He is real, there will be opportunity afterward to get on board. That is why I think all scripture should be read with that constant little prayer to guide our interpretation and understanding.

I Peter was written within a decade of so after Paul wrote his epistles and at that time, according to the scriptures, the apostles thought Jesus return and 'the end of all things' could happen at any time, was imminent, so there is little to be found in the manuscripts that describe a distant future. By the time John wrote his manuscripts, that sense of immediacy was gone and I think those still living had become aware that just as the world had to wait generations for the Messiah to appear the first time, so could it be necessary to wait generations for Him to return.

There is no reason to believe that humans that wrote down the words to the New Testament manuscripts were any more infallible than we are. I believe with all my heart they got it as right as they could, but they understood many things through a glass darkly just as we do. Also they were writing for people who shared their experience, their culture, their language, etc. and felt no need to add a lot of detail or explanation as they knew everybody reading would know what they meant. Just as those writing today don't feel a need to add a lot of detail or explanation for what is common knowledge now. That makes it more difficult for us to always correctly interpret their exact intent with a word or phrase and what we do understand we need to read through their eyes and not our 21st Century understanding.

 

[kjw47]

For the 100th time, 1Peter chapters 3 and 4.

be more specific please.

 

[kjw47]

Choosing to attack another's faith goes nowhere.

Actually Gods word teaches to expose the darkness( Eph 5:11)
They didn't murder Jesus, apostles and followers for teaching-Love, peace and unity, they murdered them for exposing the darkness.

 

[Cougarbear]

be more specific please.

No. You need to read the entire chapters because you take way too much out of context.

 

[kjw47]

No. You need to read the entire chapters because you take way too much out of context.

Actually its you who twist things into oblivion.

 

[Meriweather]

Actually Gods word teaches to expose the darkness( Eph 5:11)
They didn't murder Jesus, apostles and followers for teaching-Love, peace and unity, they murdered them for exposing the darkness.

No darkness to expose. What was exposed was that post's ignorance of both scripture and the Bible. It is only when one's own religion/faith is so weak the only post that comes to mind is a post that slanders and denounces another religion/faith.

 

[Cougarbear]

Actually its you who twist things into oblivion.

The words are straight up Jesus preaches to the spirits in spirit prison. What is wrong with you?
1Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Can’t be any more clear. I have read your version and the words are still there but poorly written. It still is clear enough that our spirits are still alive in spirit prison. Your prophets are false.

 

[Meriweather]

The words are straight up Jesus preaches to the spirits in spirit prison. What is wrong with you?
1Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Can’t be any more clear. I have read your version and the words are still there but poorly written. It still is clear enough that our spirits are still alive in spirit prison.

Does the LDS faith believe that 'spirit prison' still exists?

I don't know whether this is helpful to one or both of you. Scholars take into account the beliefs, customs, and languages of the day. Jewish belief at this time was that the dead would descend into Hades. Hades was a place of twilight existence--there was neither strength nor joy. Jesus experienced death and therefore descended into this human experience where he proclaimed the good news of salvation and forever opened the gates to salvation, i.e., to heaven. The message of salvation/grace was now proclaimed throughout the earth--from the heavens above, to earth itself, to the place below where the dead had descended. Salvation is open for all.

 

[Cougarbear]

Does the LDS faith believe that 'spirit prison' still exists?

I don't know whether this is helpful to one or both of you. Scholars take into account the beliefs, customs, and languages of the day. Jewish belief at this time was that the dead would descend into Hades. Hades was a place of twilight existence--there was neither strength nor joy. Jesus experienced death and therefore descended into this human experience where he proclaimed the good news of salvation and forever opened the gates to salvation, i.e., to heaven. The message of salvation/grace was now proclaimed throughout the earth--from the heavens above, to earth itself, to the place below where the dead had descended. Salvation is open for all.

Does the Bible still exist as the Doctrine for Christians including Catholics? If it’s still the word of God and the New Testament is the new and everlasting covenant, then the Doctrine of the Spirits of the Dead bodies is still alive. After all, all dead still have to be judged according to the people in the flesh. So many people have not had any clear opportunities to hear, see and know the true fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now, does that mean the spirits of the dead will have an edge on accepting the true doctrine and fulness of the Gospel minus mistakes of translations, interpretations and language? No. Since all spirits exist, they existed before coming to the earth. Not everyone was all in on descending to this earth with the same excitement and understanding. That’s still something to overcome. Those that complained about life not being fair while in their bodies will still think that way. The sins committed that we our spirits were unable to control our bodies still are with us and still have to be repented of. And, there’s no information that suggests those that don’t go to Paradise will actually see Jesus Christ before the judgment day. Nor is the Holy Ghost available.

 

[Meriweather]

Does the Bible still exist as the Doctrine for Christians including Catholics? If it’s still the word of God and the New Testament is the new and everlasting covenant, then the Doctrine of the Spirits of the Dead bodies is still alive.

The New Covenant is repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Biblical doctrine was following 613 laws and the offering of various sacrifices when one broke those laws. Doctrines changed after Christ's appearance on the scene, and salvation is now open to everyone, not just the Jews. Christ's appearance changed everything for the living, yet your claim is that it changed nothing for the dead when Jesus appeared to them and proclaimed salvation. I don't see how anyone can agree Christ's salvation is open to all here, but that same salvation, proclaimed to the dead in prison, had no effect at all. Why this limitation on Christ's power?