Zone1 Transgender redux

[Curried Goats]

Why? I made 30 posts in the other thread. Why should I expect different results this time?

No one's forcing to. You're free to concede.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Only of you don't understand brain function and chemistry and it's importance in determining identity.

I understand it very well.

My point is that having one’s penis removed and an artificial vagina installed doesn’t change the brain function or chemistry. Nor does a girl having her breasts removied and an artificial penis attached change it.

Transgender surgeries are cosmetic, but unique in that they destroy vital biological functions. They don’t turn boys into girls or vice versa. They wil be their original sex, but with altered body parts. In neither case will the patient become a “real woman,” or a “real man.” Suicide rates after trans surgery are tragic, and I’m sure that is in part due to disappointment in not having that fairy tale come true.

If you understood brain development, you would know that a fourteen year old girl or boy does not have the brain development needed to make such a life-altering decision as having their primary and secondary sex organs removed.

 

[ding]

No one's forcing to. You're free to concede.

That’s hilarious.

You are free to see it that way.

 

[Curried Goats]

That’s hilarious.

You are free to see it that way.

I do. As does the medical community at large.

 

[Curried Goats]

I understand it very well.

My point is that having one’s penis removed and an artificial vagina installed doesn’t change the brain function or chemistry. Nor does a girl having her breasts removied and an artificial penis attached change it.

No but it doesn't make people more comfortable with their bodies.

Transgender surgeries are cosmetic, but unique in that they destroy vital biological functions. They don’t turn boys into girls or vice versa. They wil be their original sex, but with altered body parts. In neither case will the patient become a “real woman,” or a “real man.” Suicide rates after trans surgery are tragic, and I’m sure that is in part due to disappointment in not having that fairy tale come true.

If you understood brain development, you would know that a fourteen year old girl or boy does not have the brain development needed to make such a life-altering decision as having their primary and secondary sex organs removed.

Actually objective science shows that teenagers who were allowed to receive puberty blockers and hormone treatments as teenagers have remarkably better mental health results as adults. Including after surgery. That's because they were able to treat their gender dysphoria before puberty brought about irreversible bodily changes.

Gender-affirming care can improve mental health outcomes in transgender youth.

 

[Seymour Flops]

No but it doesn't make people more comfortable with their bodies.

Actually objective science shows that teenagers who were allowed to receive puberty blockers and hormone treatments as teenagers have remarkably better mental health results as adults. Including after surgery. That's because they were able to treat their gender dysphoria before puberty brought about irreversible bodily changes.

Gender-affirming care can improve mental health outcomes in transgender youth.

That study only “suggests” that it “can” improve mental health outcomes. Read it yourself.

It does not claim to “show” any remarkable improvement.

 

[Curried Goats]

That study only “suggests” that it “can” improve mental health outcomes. Read it yourself.

It does not claim to “show” any remarkable improvement.

I did. You certainly didn't in the amount of time since my post and now.

Be less obvious.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I did. You certainly didn't in the amount of time since my post and now.

Be less obvious.

It is in the text of your own link. Here it is in the article:

Although the new study suggests that puberty blockers or hormones can alleviate risks of depression and suicidality in this population, a correlation was not found between gender-affirming medication and anxiety.

How long do you think it takes to read that?

 

[Curried Goats]

It is in the text of your own link. Here it is in the article:

Although the new study suggests that puberty blockers or hormones can alleviate risks of depression and suicidality in this population, a correlation was not found between gender-affirming medication and anxiety.

How long do you think it takes to read that?

Probably going to take you a lot longer to figure out the context of the word suggest there. They don't mean guess.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Probably going to take you a lot longer to figure out the context of the word suggest there. They don't mean guess.

I know that it doesn’t mean “shows,” which was your claim.

If you’re backpedaling on that, fine.

 

[Couchpotato]

What they feel is dsyphoria between their physical bodies and their identities. They don't feel like someone else, they feel that something is wrong within them.

Gender identities are a social construct. We made them up so how can a child or anyone for that matter innately identify with them? How can my felt gender identity not correspond with my physical body when gender identity is just something we pulled out of our ass? But even if that weren't the case the argument is that these people born this way, isn't it? So, the only feeling they've ever had is this one so how can it "feel" weird or wrong?

What you are describing are personality differences. There have always been boys who are more "feminine", and girls who are more "masculine". That doesn't mean the girls are boys and vice versa.

Just because a boy likes to play with dolls or wear his mother's high heels doesn't mean we should lop his dick and balls off.

So it isn't about treating their discomfort, it's about your own.

No it's about not maiming children. There's a reason adults are supposed to be in charge and we don't let children make these decisions. Children lack perspective. They lack the ability to look to the future and weigh how the decisions they make today might affect their future selves. It's our job to not let them make the big mistakes. Like cutting off body parts or taking drugs that will damage their body for the rest of their lives. And if the parents are not acting in the best interests of the child then regrettably the state HAS to step in. It's illegal for a child to get a tattoo in many states with or without parental consent but we can cut body parts off or give them hormones that can cause irreparable damage?
And we are doing this on the word of a child. An individual who up until a few years ago thought a fat man in a red suit flew around the world sliding down chimneys distributing toys. Individuals who all think they are going to be millionaires/billionaires and play a professional sport or be a celebrity of some sort. On their word we are doing this.

If a 13 y/o tells a doctor he identifies as a quadriplegic should the doctor sever his cervical spine and fit him for a wheelchair? What if he identifies as an amputee? Should he schedule the surgery to remove the offending appendage?

 

[Curried Goats]

I know that it doesn’t mean “shows,” which was your claim.

If you’re backpedaling on that, fine.

Conclusions and Relevance This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

Maybe you should of read more thoroughly.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Bill Maher said the same about his identifying as a pirate when he was a kid. Lucky for him, they didn’t think to suggest that it may reduce is odds of committing suicide if they amputated a leg and poked out an eye.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Conclusions and Relevance This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

Maybe you should of read more thoroughly.

You should have, instead of just taking the article at face value. If you had, you would know that It was a one-year study of 104 people. It was a doctoral thesis, not a study by experienced researchers. Hardly evidence of anything.

But I find it amusing that you believe that the “Seattle Children’s Gender Clinic” is the font of “objective science.”

You fell for a sales pitch disguised as science.

 

[Curried Goats]

You should have, instead of just taking the article at face value. If you had, you would know that It was a one-year study of 104 people. It was a doctoral thesis, not a study by experienced researchers. Hardly evidence of anything.

But I find it amusing that you believe that the “Seattle Children’s Gender Clinic” is the font of “objective science.”

You fell for a sales pitch disguised as science.

So now you're retreating.

 

[ding]

I do. As does the medical community at large.

That’s nice.

 

[Curried Goats]

That’s nice.

It is actually.

 

[ding]

It is actually.

I couldn’t be happier for you.

 

[Curried Goats]

I couldn’t be happier for you.

I'm happier for the trans people who gaining access to better care.

 

[ding]

I'm happier for the trans people who gaining access to better care.

That’s nice.