Zone1 Transgender redux

[Curried Goats]

ding

This seems a more appropriate place to continue our discussion.

Here is the original link I provided which was an article published by Cleveland Clinic giving a general summation of findings from a multitude of studies being done on transgenderism.

Research on the Transgender Brain: What You Should Know

You have decided to concentrate on this one in particular.

Specific cerebral activation due to visual erotic stimuli in male-to-female transsexuals compared with male and female controls: an fMRI study - PubMed

Which was a study on a response to erotic stimuli in male to female trans participants compared to responses to that same stimuli in biologically female participants. Your main argument (supported by the anecdotal evidence of your friend from college) is that sex preference can change and that gay men would have the same response to erotic stimuli as straight women. The first part can be dismissed out of hand. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. As for the second part the introduction to that study explains why that isn't possible.


Introduction: Transsexuals harbor the strong feeling of having been born to the wrong sex. There is a continuing controversial discussion of whether or not transsexualism has a biological representation. Differences between males and females in terms of functional imaging during erotic stimuli have been previously described, revealing gender-specific results.

Notice the bolded section there? It's telling you that there are male/female biological differences in response to erotic stimulus and that the brains of gay men respond in the same manner as straight men to erotic stimulus as do gay and straight women.

Any other questions?

 

[Hellokitty]

A person can identify as whatever they want, what they can't do is change their biology.

Someone posted about a woman getting 11 years for fraud in the Holmes case. I wonder how many medical professionals will be facing time for fraud regarding trans treatments.

 

[ding]

ding

This seems a more appropriate place to continue our discussion.

Here is the original link I provided which was an article published by Cleveland Clinic giving a general summation of findings from a multitude of studies being done on transgenderism.

Research on the Transgender Brain: What You Should Know

You have decided to concentrate on this one in particular.

Specific cerebral activation due to visual erotic stimuli in male-to-female transsexuals compared with male and female controls: an fMRI study - PubMed

Which was a study on a response to erotic stimuli in male to female trans participants compared to responses to that same stimuli in biologically female participants. Your main argument (supported by the anecdotal evidence of your friend from college) is that sex preference can change and that gay men would have the same response to erotic stimuli as straight women. The first part can be dismissed out of hand. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. As for the second part the introduction to that study explains why that isn't possible.


Introduction: Transsexuals harbor the strong feeling of having been born to the wrong sex. There is a continuing controversial discussion of whether or not transsexualism has a biological representation. Differences between males and females in terms of functional imaging during erotic stimuli have been previously described, revealing gender-specific results.

Notice the bolded section there? It's telling you that there are male/female biological differences in response to erotic stimulus and that the brains of gay men respond in the same manner as straight men to erotic stimulus as do gay and straight women.

Any other questions?

It still doesn’t change my mind.

 

[Couchpotato]

ding

This seems a more appropriate place to continue our discussion.

Here is the original link I provided which was an article published by Cleveland Clinic giving a general summation of findings from a multitude of studies being done on transgenderism.

Research on the Transgender Brain: What You Should Know

You have decided to concentrate on this one in particular.

Specific cerebral activation due to visual erotic stimuli in male-to-female transsexuals compared with male and female controls: an fMRI study - PubMed

Which was a study on a response to erotic stimuli in male to female trans participants compared to responses to that same stimuli in biologically female participants. Your main argument (supported by the anecdotal evidence of your friend from college) is that sex preference can change and that gay men would have the same response to erotic stimuli as straight women. The first part can be dismissed out of hand. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. As for the second part the introduction to that study explains why that isn't possible.


Introduction: Transsexuals harbor the strong feeling of having been born to the wrong sex. There is a continuing controversial discussion of whether or not transsexualism has a biological representation. Differences between males and females in terms of functional imaging during erotic stimuli have been previously described, revealing gender-specific results.

Notice the bolded section there? It's telling you that there are male/female biological differences in response to erotic stimulus and that the brains of gay men respond in the same manner as straight men to erotic stimulus as do gay and straight women.

Any other questions?

How does a person know that they feel like the opposite gender? The only feeling they’ve ever had is the one they have. Does it feel different to be a man than a woman? How could we determine it does or doesn’t ?

Either way the biggest issue surrounding the trans issue is children, and there’s just nothing you can post that’s going to convince me it’s a good idea to cut off parts of a child ps body or give them hormones that will do irreversible damage to that child’s body. Counseling? Sure. Let them wear clothes like the opposite gender? Ok. Cut a prepubescent girls tits off? Nah.

 

[emilynghiem]

ding

This seems a more appropriate place to continue our discussion.

Here is the original link I provided which was an article published by Cleveland Clinic giving a general summation of findings from a multitude of studies being done on transgenderism.

Research on the Transgender Brain: What You Should Know

You have decided to concentrate on this one in particular.

Specific cerebral activation due to visual erotic stimuli in male-to-female transsexuals compared with male and female controls: an fMRI study - PubMed

Which was a study on a response to erotic stimuli in male to female trans participants compared to responses to that same stimuli in biologically female participants. Your main argument (supported by the anecdotal evidence of your friend from college) is that sex preference can change and that gay men would have the same response to erotic stimuli as straight women. The first part can be dismissed out of hand. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. As for the second part the introduction to that study explains why that isn't possible.


Introduction: Transsexuals harbor the strong feeling of having been born to the wrong sex. There is a continuing controversial discussion of whether or not transsexualism has a biological representation. Differences between males and females in terms of functional imaging during erotic stimuli have been previously described, revealing gender-specific results.

Notice the bolded section there? It's telling you that there are male/female biological differences in response to erotic stimulus and that the brains of gay men respond in the same manner as straight men to erotic stimulus as do gay and straight women.

Any other questions?

I have a suggestion:
To include in these studies the responses in brain patterns of people BEFORE and AFTER completing spiritual healing to change from LGBT to heterosexual/cisgender.

For example, people like Milo who identified as gay but later decided that wasn't natural and changed their minds about their orientation, or Chirlene DeBlasio who identified as Lesbian but later married her current husband as "the love of her life."

Why not study all cases, instead of trying to make them all fit under one theory?

What if some cases are natural, others unnatural, some people being able to change, while others cannot?

 

[DudleySmith]

What if they're just sick mentally ill freaks and so are their supporters? That of course is the only scientifically viable fact.

 

[Curried Goats]

It still doesn’t change my mind.

You're not interested in objective facts and reasoned arguments. Or you simply don't understand the science?

 

[Curried Goats]

How does a person know that they feel like the opposite gender? The only feeling they’ve ever had is the one they have. Does it feel different to be a man than a woman? How could we determine it does or doesn’t ?

What they feel is dsyphoria between their physical bodies and their identities. They don't feel like someone else, they feel that something is wrong within them.

Either way the biggest issue surrounding the trans issue is children, and there’s just nothing you can post that’s going to convince me it’s a good idea to cut off parts of a child ps body or give them hormones that will do irreversible damage to that child’s body. Counseling? Sure. Let them wear clothes like the opposite gender? Ok. Cut a prepubescent girls tits off? Nah.

So it isn't about treating their discomfort, it's about your own.

 

[alexa]

I know someone who may fit the criteria. He is ten years old. He has a brother who is very much a boys boy. He is the opposite. How he has developed from a baby has been more female than male. He has never wanted to take on a boys identity and seems to have more identified with his siter who he was always borrowing things like hair clasps from. Now he has taken to wearing nail polish and having his hair which he keeps in a pony tale highlighted. He wanted the nail polish 'pink' but Dad insisted he have either blue or black in the hope he will come over more as creative/artistic rather than feminine. He does have a gift with art. When he is able he dresses himself in clothes which make him look feminine, but which also have a masculine touch as well. He seems to be wanting to have the feminine with the masculine. His mum is letting him express himself as he feels he needs to in the hope that he will grow out of it. However she also has a great fear that when he learns at school that some people change their sex and believe they are born into the wrong body he will say. 'Phew. Now I know. That is me'. He may not but she is scared this is what will happen.

 

[ding]

You're not interested in objective facts and reasoned arguments. Or you simply don't understand the science?

Neither. I’ve already explained my position to you in the other thread. I made like 30 posts stating my position. If you can’t accurately restate my position as I can I can yours, then discussing it with you is a waste of my time.

 

[Curried Goats]

Neither. I’ve already explained my position to you in the other thread. I made like 30 posts stating my position. If you can’t accurately restate my position as I can I can yours, then discussing it with you is a waste of my time.

You did explain your position, what you didn't do was explain it reasonably.

 

[ding]

You did explain your position, what you didn't do was explain it reasonably.

I see. So what’s my position?

 

[Seymour Flops]

I know someone who may fit the criteria. He is ten years old. He has a brother who is very much a boys boy. He is the opposite. How he has developed from a baby has been more female than male. He has never wanted to take on a boys identity and seems to have more identified with his siter who he was always borrowing things like hair clasps from. Now he has taken to wearing nail polish and having his hair which he keeps in a pony tale highlighted. He wanted the nail polish 'pink' but Dad insisted he have either blue or black in the hope he will come over more as creative/artistic rather than feminine. He does have a gift with art. When he is able he dresses himself in clothes which make him look feminine, but which also have a masculine touch as well. He seems to be wanting to have the feminine with the masculine. His mum is letting him express himself as he feels he needs to in the hope that he will grow out of it.

I would also. I have nothing against children who want to be different, or who feel that they are different by no choice of their own and need to express their differences. They should be taught to accept themselves and other children should be taught to mind their own business.

However she also has a great fear that when he learns at school that some people change their sex and believe they are born into the wrong body he will say. 'Phew. Now I know. That is me'. He may not but she is scared this is what will happen.

She is right to be afraid. She sends him to a public school for eight hours a day and there may be a small minority of adults who are agendized to “help” childrent “discover” that they are trans. This is the opening of the pipeline that funnels children to the transgender industry with its counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists, medical doctors with thick prescription pads, and surgeons with sharp knives at the ready.

Just teach your kids to accept who they are. A fourteen year old girl does not need a double mastectomy in order to wear a hoody and jeans pulled down below her butt like a boy. Nobody should be touching a fourteen year old boy’s penis except himself.

 

[Curried Goats]

I see. So what’s my position?

1. That this study is one of sexuality, which it isn't. It's about comparing responses in the brain between MtF trans, biological males and biological females since its been previously recorded that brain responses are to erotic stimuli is based on biological sex differences not differences in sexuality.

2. That your theory is supported by the anecdotal evidence of your friend from college.

 

[Curried Goats]

I would also. I have nothing against children who want to be different, or who feel that they are different by no choice of their own and need to express their differences. They should be taught to accept themselves and other children should be taught to mind their own business.

She is right to be afraid. She sends him to a public school for eight hours a day and there may be a small minority of adults who are agendized to “help” childrent “discover” that they are trans. This is the opening of the pipeline that funnels children to the transgender industry with its counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists, medical doctors with thick prescription pads, and surgeons with sharp knives at the ready.

Just teach your kids to accept who they are. A fourteen year old girl does not need a double mastectomy in order to wear a hoody and jeans pulled down below her butt like a boy. Nobody should be touching a fourteen year old boy’s penis except himself.

Accept who you are so long as it's within my parameters.

 

[ding]

1. That this study is one of sexuality, which it isn't. It's about comparing responses in the brain between MtF trans, biological males and biological females since its been previously recorded that brain responses are to erotic stimuli is based on biological sex differences not differences in sexuality.

2. That your theory is supported by the anecdotal evidence of your friend from college.

Incorrect.

 

[Curried Goats]

Incorrect.

Feel free to clarify then.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Accept who you are so long as it's within my parameters.

Nope.

Any kind of cosmetic surgery is the opposite of accepting yourself as you are.

 

[Curried Goats]

Nope.

Any kind of cosmetic surgery is the opposite of accepting yourself as you are.

Only of you don't understand brain function and chemistry and it's importance in determining identity.

 

[ding]

Feel free to clarify then.

Why? I made 30 posts in the other thread. Why should I expect different results this time?