Torture: physical or psychological

[DKSuddeth]

Is it wrong or right?

 

[insein]

Wrong cause yes it does make us look bad. And thats a shame for all the hardworking soldiers over there doing good.

 

[KLSuddeth]

Wrong because its wrong. period. no disscussion needed.
Thank you.

Dismissed

 

[pegwinn]

Wrong because I say so.
Questions?
There are none.

 

[007]

Wrong.

But it sure would have made me feel good if I was one of those soilders doing it.

Paybacks are a bitch.

Carry on...

 

[remie]

Real physical torture is wrong, however, nothing I have seen in the present situation amounts to any more than humiliation. Coercing a bad guy to talk is the part of war nobody wants to admit or talk about. I think we need to remember that a short time before they were "tortured" the prisoners were trying to blow up our soldiers and if given the chance, burn their bodies and hang them from a bridge. I think the entire situation is being blown out of proportion.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
Wrong because its wrong. period. no disscussion needed.
Thank you.

Dismissed

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
Wrong because its wrong. period. no disscussion needed.
Thank you.

Dismissed

Couldn't have said it better m'self!

 

[Palestinian Jew]

I'm glad everyone sees how this is wrong in so many ways. I listened to Drudge last night and apparently there are pictures and videos much worse than what we've seen: Iraqis being raped, beaten, having dogs sicked on them.

 

[OCA]

Flame me all you want but I voted right, although I don't like how the right answer was posed. Its not that I don't care about Iraqis, I don't care about insurgent Iraqis. I still say when you show me a picture of actual physical torture than I will change my tune, until then my position is psyops or psyhumiliation is a valid tool of war.

 

[NewGuy]

I should clarify that the torture, physical or psychological should not be practiced BY US. -It SHOULD be EXPECTED however.

Anyone who goes in the military expecting they can hold up their stress card on the battlefield deserves nothing less than a daisy cart on polk street in San Fran. (no football reference intended).

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by OCA
Flame me all you want but I voted right, although I don't like how the right answer was posed. Its not that I don't care about Iraqis, I don't care about insurgent Iraqis. I still say when you show me a picture of actual physical torture than I will change my tune, until then my position is psyops or psyhumiliation is a valid tool of war.

even in light of the following red cross report?

ICRC report


GENEVA (AP) - A Red Cross report disclosed Monday said coalition intelligence officers estimated that 70-90 percent of Iraqi detainees were arrested by mistake and said Red Cross observers witnessed U.S. officers mistreating Abu Ghraib prisoners by keeping them naked in total darkness in empty cells.

The report by the International Committee of the Red Cross supports its allegations that abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers was broad and "not individual acts" - contrary to President Bush's contention that the mistreatment "was the wrongdoing of a few."

 

[OCA]

Well DK I still need that actual picture of somebody taking a beating for no good reason. I just want to know if anybody has bothered to get both sides of the story here? And just how do these intelligence officers know that most of the detainees are innocent as insurgent and civilian are indistinguishable. I don't know maybe i'm screwed up personally but I have yet to feel 1 ounce of any remorse or sadness over what happened to these guys. Are these guys dead? Are they going to go home to loved ones eventually? Are the contractors going to get to go home to their loved ones?

Why are we expected to play by 1 set of rules but historically are enemies have not been held to the same set of standards? I'm very interested in hearing what are pow's have to say on how they were treated when this is all said and done.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by OCA
Well DK I still need that actual picture of somebody taking a beating for no good reason. I just want to know if anybody has bothered to get both sides of the story here? And just how do these intelligence officers know that most of the detainees are innocent as insurgent and civilian are indistinguishable. I don't know maybe i'm screwed up personally but I have yet to feel 1 ounce of any remorse or sadness over what happened to these guys. Are these guys dead? Are they going to go home to loved ones eventually? Are the contractors going to get to go home to their loved ones?

Why are we expected to play by 1 set of rules but historically are enemies have not been held to the same set of standards? I'm very interested in hearing what are pow's have to say on how they were treated when this is all said and done.

they've posted one picture of a prisoner that had his leg chewed up by the dog, but I've been unable to find it at this time.

As to the position of how the officers are supposed to know who are civilians and who are not, well thats not their job. If they are a professional, they do their job which is to be guards, not an inquisition team.

It's sad that you feel no remorse ( note I said no remorse is sad, not that you are sad) because without trials and evidence these prisoners should be assumed innocent. Otherwise we end up acting just like the rogue regimes we're talking about fighting.

I think we're expected to play by a different set of rules because we tell the world that we ARE different, that we ARE out for the greater good. If we start acting like any other two bit nation that tortures and abuses, guess what? we become that two bit nation that tortures and abuses.

 

[OCA]

You know DK I know you don't think i'm sad, I wouldn't have went off for that. I do respect your guys's position, I for one am just asking to hear the soldier's stories before I make up my mind in full, until then i'm gonna cut them some slack given the circumstances in Iraq.

 

[cptpwichita]

I believe we should use certain types of psychological warfare,including fear and intimidation,sleep deprivation,and hunger.We should however leave this to the people who are trained to do it,NOT prison guards.the prison guards were not attempting to retrieve good intelligence information,they were retailating against those who were percieved as the enemy.

 

[dilloduck]

A frightening thing can occur here if anyone has the balls to admit it. WHAT IF THIS TYPE OF TORTURE WAS HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL? What if has frightened Iraqi radicals so much that they decide not to fight? What if they attack suicidally and en masse to prevent capture and avoid shame? What if the intel saved (insert #) lives? Are we still supposed to feel guilt when our sons or fathers life was saved. A moral enigma with high stakes.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by cptpwichita
I believe we should use certain types of psychological warfare,including fear and intimidation,sleep deprivation,and hunger.We should however leave this to the people who are trained to do it,NOT prison guards.the prison guards were not attempting to retrieve good intelligence information,they were retailating against those who were percieved as the enemy.

The types of tactics you refer to is what the Army calls PSYOPS - PSYchological OPerationS. It is a very effective way to get prisoners to "break" and give info. This is not outlawed by the Geneva conventions, nor would it be considered "torture" - though it is certainly not fun. And yes, there are people trained especially in psyops that do this kind of thing.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

You guys are going to flame me, but try to keep an open mind.

How do we know that the Iraqis in the pictures are not of the same mindset that the barbarians of Fallujah were? This thinking goes hand in hand with "we don't fear death, we want to be martyrs" . In this context, this type of interrgation tactic may be responsible for saving US lives and bringing the scumbags to justice. Killing them gets no info out of them, but as DK has eluded to, they fear shame and humiliation more then physical torture. Nothing worse in their minds then being humiliated by a small butch looking Christian woman now is there. (Notice they used women in a lot of these pics. Maybe there is some credibility in their claims that they were doing this on orders???)

Why has the assumpton been made that these were all easy going nice law abiding people that we just decided to drag around on leashes and attach wires to for the fun of it?

I bought into the "we're better then them" shame that has gripped the country the past few days, but I'm pulling a Kerry here. I think these pictures were taken on purpose with full knowledge of those in the MI community, and would even venture that some of them were staged.

I think the shame is that no one in DoD from Rummy on down has the balls to come out and say this, and GWB has allowed this to get so out of control.

Think about it.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Suprised I'm not basking in the fire

As NYCFLASHER pointed out: wrong verb!

burning in the fire maybe?