To all those on the left who question the faith of evangelicals for voting Trump

[Dragonlady]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

We are talking about specific forms of American Christianity that you appear to completely ignorant of. "Properity Christianity". Millionaire ministers who utterly ignore the teachings about helping others, and never mention that it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God than it is for a camel to pass through the "eye of the needle". They talk about how God will make you rich when you follow Jesus teachings about loving God, but completely gloss over the notion that to follow Jesus, you need to divest yourself of possessions, give the money to the poor, and dedicate your lives to serving others.

Jesus was very clear that his Kingdom was NOT of this earth. Render unto Ceasar and all that stuff. Everything about the New Testatment is a repudiation of the temporal and focusing on the spiritual. Politics corrupted the Catholic Church, who stood by and permitted the genocide of South American native populations in the service of enriching the government and the Church with the gold the Conquistadors took back to Spain. The Popes have been profitting from religion since the days of the Roman Emperors.

When Jerry Falwall formed the "Moral Majority", it was with the goal of wielding both religious power and political power. At that point, Falwell ceased to be a religious leaders, and lead his followers into the secular path that the religious right follows today.

The danger of theocracies, is that evangelicals are only 20% of Americans. A large chunk to be sure, but in order to wield power, they have aligned themselves with a party whose goal is to thwart every objective of liberty, equality and justice for all, and to impose THEIR religion on the rest of America.

The religious right isn't trying to protect their beliefs, which are really not in any danger, but rather to force their ideas of Creationism, marriage, and Christianity on the rest of the country, and to have their beliefs codified into a theocratically based nation. They want to overturn the Constitution.

So great is their desire for political power, they will vote for ANYONE, and align themselves with the most immoral, corrupt, and destructive forces in American politics, and they INSIST that their followers march in lockstep and vote as a block. That's not a religion. That's not the "free will" God told us is necessary to live a Godly life. And it sure as hell goes against the Constitution.

If the Christian right wants to go back to talking in tongues, and fleecing the faithful, they are free to do so, as long as they leave others in peace to do the same. If they persist in trying to undermine and thwart the separation of Church and State, they're going to find that they will meet ferocious opposition at every turn.

I think it's high time for Churches who want to play in the political arena, to start paying taxes.

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

pknopp only wants to ASK questions, never answer them.

Strawman questions at that. Like we’re just bombing completely innocent people and that’s just how we fight war. Like we didn’t spend billions of dollars spearheading precision technology to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. And he’ll cite accidental tragedies as his proof. That’s war. Accidents happen. They’re absolutely tragic. What’s far more tragic is the evil people killing innocent populations that we are trying to stop. Apparently this scenario doesn’t exist in his mind. I’m not saying the US is perfect, or didn’t participate in anything shameful, as I have stated many times. But who is he comparing us too? Name a single country that defends innocent populations as much as US. The rest of the west throws a couple of planes our way and says “we did our part” while were the ones bombing the people that want to murder their civilians en masse. But apparently bombing these evil people isn’t Christian.

We have NO business dropping bombs at all.

We weren’t, we opted not too back in the 90s. One of the guys we chose not too wound up crashing planes into the World Trade Center. What would China take by force knowing we’re not there to stop them? How long would Kim Jong Un wait time attack South Korea and level Seoul knowing we wouldn’t retaliate? What other Baltic countries would Russia take by force knowing we wouldn’t step in to defend? How fast would Iran swallow their neighbors knowing we wouldn’t step in? How many more genocides would brutal dictators order knowing the US is no longer threatening them if they do. We can’t be world police. But the world is not a safe place. The human condition is to carry out conquest, subjugate, enslave, and wipe out the tribes around you. It was the perpetual state of the world before the US became a super power. Now war is limited to boarder skirmishes, civil wars, and small conflicts vs what wars use to be worldwide.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

Matthew 25:40

SNAP cuts threaten to remove thousands from food stamps

It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

He talked far, far, far more about divorce and adultery than about homosexuals.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

You are discussing this with me. Not your "left" boogeyman. If you wish to discuss something with me, discuss what I say. If you just want to rant, go in a closet and do that.

“Render unto ceaser” is separation of church and state laid out by Jesus. In our government it’s “congress shall make no law...concerning the establishment of religion” is our version of separation of church and state.

There is no separation. The only restrictions is that the government can not favor one over the other. The "separation" thing is found nowhere in our laws.

As for the rest, I already stated that I am not interested in your general arguments against the "left".

I know there is no separation as thought out by the evangelical atheist. That was my point. Your point that they can’t favor one over the other is completely wrong.

U.S. Funding of Islamist “Charity” Groups Triples Under Trump - Judicial Watch

The amount of American taxpayer dollars that go to Islamist organizations has drastically increased under the Trump administration, which has doled out millions to radical nonprofits, including a recent allocation to a terrorist front group named as an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism...

www.judicialwatch.org

Not sure why you think that link would show I was wrong.

These aren’t general attacks on the left. These are attacks on what is driving YOUR philosophy, which is also the philosophy of the left, that it is the government responsibility to act as Kumbayah Christ. And when Christians disagree with this notion, the left automatically labels them as hypocrites because the left is extremely ignorant of the Christian beliefs. Most of the Old Testament is the Jews calling for a king, god saying ok but you won’t like it, the Kings eventually turn corrupt, the people turn corrupt, and another country comes in and kicks their ass and enslaves them for a couple hundred years. And the cycle starts again. The Old Testament jews are a perfect reflection of humanity. People call out for a strong central government to fix their problems. The government tends to its own needs instead of the needs of the people. Government becomes lazy and ineffective, and barbarians come to wipe them out. The left today are the Jews of the past, calling for a central government. It’s a cycle we’ve seen throughout all of human history. They are the Romans of the past becoming lazy, relying on a corrupt self serving government, then getting wiped out by barbarians. Sometimes it doesn’t even require outside barbarians. Sometimes it’s a natural disaster like New Orleans, over a period of 60 years millions of taxpayer dollars specifically for levies never actually going to levies. Christians do not believe that government is the savior as the left does. That does not make them hypocrites as you have tried to argue.

As long as the government bends over backwards to prop up those who already have, I'm going to support the same for those who do not. You want to end all government support? OK. Think that will happen?

Nope another strawman here. As I clearly stated, the left believe the savior is government.

If all you want to do is chase your boogeymen, enjoy.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

We are talking about specific forms of American Christianity that you appear to completely ignorant of. "Properity Christianity". Millionaire ministers who utterly ignore the teachings about helping others, and never mention that it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God than it is for a camel to pass through the "eye of the needle". They talk about how God will make you rich when you follow Jesus teachings about loving God, but completely gloss over the notion that to follow Jesus, you need to divest yourself of possessions, give the money to the poor, and dedicate your lives to serving others.

Jesus was very clear that his Kingdom was NOT of this earth. Render unto Ceasar and all that stuff. Everything about the New Testatment is a repudiation of the temporal and focusing on the spiritual. Politics corrupted the Catholic Church, who stood by and permitted the genocide of South American native populations in the service of enriching the government and the Church with the gold the Conquistadors took back to Spain. The Popes have been profitting from religion since the days of the Roman Emperors.

When Jerry Falwall formed the "Moral Majority", it was with the goal of wielding both religious power and political power. At that point, Falwell ceased to be a religious leaders, and lead his followers into the secular path that the religious right follows today.

The danger of theocracies, is that evangelicals are only 20% of Americans. A large chunk to be sure, but in order to wield power, they have aligned themselves with a party whose goal is to thwart every objective of liberty, equality and justice for all, and to impose THEIR religion on the rest of America.

The religious right isn't trying to protect their beliefs, which are really not in any danger, but rather to force their ideas of Creationism, marriage, and Christianity on the rest of the country, and to have their beliefs codified into a theocratically based nation. They want to overturn the Constitution.

So great is their desire for political power, they will vote for ANYONE, and align themselves with the most immoral, corrupt, and destructive forces in American politics, and they INSIST that their followers march in lockstep and vote as a block. That's not a religion. That's not the "free will" God told us is necessary to live a Godly life. And it sure as hell goes against the Constitution.

If the Christian right wants to go back to talking in tongues, and fleecing the faithful, they are free to do so, as long as they leave others in peace to do the same. If they persist in trying to undermine and thwart the separation of Church and State, they're going to find that they will meet ferocious opposition at every turn.

I think it's high time for Churches who want to play in the political arena, to start paying taxes.

Billy Graham made the mistake of falling into this with Nixon but to his credit he at least realized his mistake and warned against it. It's too bad his son never learned the lesson.

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

We aren't dropping bombs on the Nazi's. I'll take your answer as support for our useless, wasteful, un-Christ like actions.

We were dropping them on ISIS. And other terrorist leaders that have wrought death and destruction on their own innocent people as well as other innocent people world wide.

We funded ISIS.

Yup and I was 100% against the Arab Spring policy pushed by the Obama administration. The guy on one hand ripped bush up and down for Iraq and Afghanistan, then went on to destabilize half of the Middle East with countries that weren’t at all angels but at least stabilizers. But that’s a different issue than the US should never get involved in War at all.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

pknopp only wants to ASK questions, never answer them.

Strawman questions at that. Like we’re just bombing completely innocent people and that’s just how we fight war. Like we didn’t spend billions of dollars spearheading precision technology to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. And he’ll cite accidental tragedies as his proof. That’s war. Accidents happen. They’re absolutely tragic. What’s far more tragic is the evil people killing innocent populations that we are trying to stop. Apparently this scenario doesn’t exist in his mind. I’m not saying the US is perfect, or didn’t participate in anything shameful, as I have stated many times. But who is he comparing us too? Name a single country that defends innocent populations as much as US. The rest of the west throws a couple of planes our way and says “we did our part” while were the ones bombing the people that want to murder their civilians en masse. But apparently bombing these evil people isn’t Christian.

We have NO business dropping bombs at all.

We weren’t, we opted not too back in the 90s. One of the guys we chose not too wound up crashing planes into the World Trade Center. What would China take by force knowing we’re not there to stop them? How long would Kim Jong Un wait time attack South Korea and level Seoul knowing we wouldn’t retaliate? What other Baltic countries would Russia take by force knowing we wouldn’t step in to defend? How fast would Iran swallow their neighbors knowing we wouldn’t step in? How many more genocides would brutal dictators order knowing the US is no longer threatening them if they do. We can’t be world police. But the world is not a safe place. The human condition is to carry out conquest, subjugate, enslave, and wipe out the tribes around you. It was the perpetual state of the world before the US became a super power. Now war is limited to boarder skirmishes, civil wars, and small conflicts vs what wars use to be worldwide.

Those who attacked us on 9/11 warned us for years to quit stealing their wealth but we would not listen. Greed brought on the attack. It will again.

 

[initforme]

As a 1) white 2) traditionally married 3) male, I see no reason through my Christianity to vote for the GOP. Neither will the Democrats get my vote. You see, Jesus was about having faith and helping the least among us. That means things like social security and Medicare are good. Many here bastardized them. They have helped millions of hard working people who worked their tails off. The Dems are a no go as well as I don't know what they are all about. Not even worth discussing. But to tell me the GOP follows and is based on the Christian doctrine I say that's a big load of garbage. They love the wealthy and still ensure they are taken care of first. The average guy is just as important in my eyes.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

We aren't dropping bombs on the Nazi's. I'll take your answer as support for our useless, wasteful, un-Christ like actions.

We were dropping them on ISIS. And other terrorist leaders that have wrought death and destruction on their own innocent people as well as other innocent people world wide.

We funded ISIS.

Yup and I was 100% against the Arab Spring policy pushed by the Obama administration. The guy on one hand ripped bush up and down for Iraq and Afghanistan, then went on to destabilize half of the Middle East with countries that weren’t at all angels but at least stabilizers. But that’s a different issue than the US should never get involved in War at all.

He did. He failed completely as a president. Trump has changed nothing.

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

Matthew 25:40

SNAP cuts threaten to remove thousands from food stamps

It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

He talked far, far, far more about divorce and adultery than about homosexuals.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

You are discussing this with me. Not your "left" boogeyman. If you wish to discuss something with me, discuss what I say. If you just want to rant, go in a closet and do that.

“Render unto ceaser” is separation of church and state laid out by Jesus. In our government it’s “congress shall make no law...concerning the establishment of religion” is our version of separation of church and state.

There is no separation. The only restrictions is that the government can not favor one over the other. The "separation" thing is found nowhere in our laws.

As for the rest, I already stated that I am not interested in your general arguments against the "left".

I know there is no separation as thought out by the evangelical atheist. That was my point. Your point that they can’t favor one over the other is completely wrong.

U.S. Funding of Islamist “Charity” Groups Triples Under Trump - Judicial Watch

The amount of American taxpayer dollars that go to Islamist organizations has drastically increased under the Trump administration, which has doled out millions to radical nonprofits, including a recent allocation to a terrorist front group named as an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism...

www.judicialwatch.org

Not sure why you think that link would show I was wrong.

These aren’t general attacks on the left. These are attacks on what is driving YOUR philosophy, which is also the philosophy of the left, that it is the government responsibility to act as Kumbayah Christ. And when Christians disagree with this notion, the left automatically labels them as hypocrites because the left is extremely ignorant of the Christian beliefs. Most of the Old Testament is the Jews calling for a king, god saying ok but you won’t like it, the Kings eventually turn corrupt, the people turn corrupt, and another country comes in and kicks their ass and enslaves them for a couple hundred years. And the cycle starts again. The Old Testament jews are a perfect reflection of humanity. People call out for a strong central government to fix their problems. The government tends to its own needs instead of the needs of the people. Government becomes lazy and ineffective, and barbarians come to wipe them out. The left today are the Jews of the past, calling for a central government. It’s a cycle we’ve seen throughout all of human history. They are the Romans of the past becoming lazy, relying on a corrupt self serving government, then getting wiped out by barbarians. Sometimes it doesn’t even require outside barbarians. Sometimes it’s a natural disaster like New Orleans, over a period of 60 years millions of taxpayer dollars specifically for levies never actually going to levies. Christians do not believe that government is the savior as the left does. That does not make them hypocrites as you have tried to argue.

As long as the government bends over backwards to prop up those who already have, I'm going to support the same for those who do not. You want to end all government support? OK. Think that will happen?

Nope another strawman here. As I clearly stated, the left believe the savior is government.

If all you want to do is chase your boogeymen, enjoy.

Not boogeymen, terrorist actually exist. Islamic extremism has been around for centuries. Now they have to tools to bring about destruction en masse worldwide. It is their stated goal and religious duty as they believe. They obviously sacrifice themselves to do so. It has nothing to do with “western occupation” and everything to do with hastening the return of the 12 imam, and bringing about the apocalyptic war with “Rome” (AKA the West). This is what they say they believe. Take them at their word.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

The left thinks Christianity is supposed to be all about judging and condemning people for not being perfect, because that's what THEY are all about, and understanding Christianity would require them to actually speak with and listen to Christians. THAT certainly isn't going to happen.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

Matthew 25:40

SNAP cuts threaten to remove thousands from food stamps

It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

He talked far, far, far more about divorce and adultery than about homosexuals.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

You are discussing this with me. Not your "left" boogeyman. If you wish to discuss something with me, discuss what I say. If you just want to rant, go in a closet and do that.

“Render unto ceaser” is separation of church and state laid out by Jesus. In our government it’s “congress shall make no law...concerning the establishment of religion” is our version of separation of church and state.

There is no separation. The only restrictions is that the government can not favor one over the other. The "separation" thing is found nowhere in our laws.

As for the rest, I already stated that I am not interested in your general arguments against the "left".

I know there is no separation as thought out by the evangelical atheist. That was my point. Your point that they can’t favor one over the other is completely wrong.

U.S. Funding of Islamist “Charity” Groups Triples Under Trump - Judicial Watch

The amount of American taxpayer dollars that go to Islamist organizations has drastically increased under the Trump administration, which has doled out millions to radical nonprofits, including a recent allocation to a terrorist front group named as an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism...

www.judicialwatch.org

Not sure why you think that link would show I was wrong.

These aren’t general attacks on the left. These are attacks on what is driving YOUR philosophy, which is also the philosophy of the left, that it is the government responsibility to act as Kumbayah Christ. And when Christians disagree with this notion, the left automatically labels them as hypocrites because the left is extremely ignorant of the Christian beliefs. Most of the Old Testament is the Jews calling for a king, god saying ok but you won’t like it, the Kings eventually turn corrupt, the people turn corrupt, and another country comes in and kicks their ass and enslaves them for a couple hundred years. And the cycle starts again. The Old Testament jews are a perfect reflection of humanity. People call out for a strong central government to fix their problems. The government tends to its own needs instead of the needs of the people. Government becomes lazy and ineffective, and barbarians come to wipe them out. The left today are the Jews of the past, calling for a central government. It’s a cycle we’ve seen throughout all of human history. They are the Romans of the past becoming lazy, relying on a corrupt self serving government, then getting wiped out by barbarians. Sometimes it doesn’t even require outside barbarians. Sometimes it’s a natural disaster like New Orleans, over a period of 60 years millions of taxpayer dollars specifically for levies never actually going to levies. Christians do not believe that government is the savior as the left does. That does not make them hypocrites as you have tried to argue.

As long as the government bends over backwards to prop up those who already have, I'm going to support the same for those who do not. You want to end all government support? OK. Think that will happen?

Nope another strawman here. As I clearly stated, the left believe the savior is government.

If all you want to do is chase your boogeymen, enjoy.

Not boogeymen, terrorist actually exist. Islamic extremism has been around for centuries. Now they have to tools to bring about destruction en masse worldwide. It is their stated goal and religious duty as they believe. They obviously sacrifice themselves to do so. It has nothing to do with “western occupation” and everything to do with hastening the return of the 12 imam, and bringing about the apocalyptic war with “Rome” (AKA the West). This is what they say they believe. Take them at their word.

.

If someone was consistently attacking us we would feel the same way.

 

[Cecilie1200]

“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”

-Barry Goldwater

When did anyone ever say, "God, Barry Goldwater is my hero, he's like the Second Coming of the Messiah, anything he says is automatically the gospel truth I will live my life by"?

If not, then I fail to see why, "Oooh, look, THIS person said THIS, so AH HAAAA!!!" is supposed to matter to me.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

The left thinks Christianity is supposed to be all about judging and condemning people for not being perfect, because that's what THEY are all about, and understanding Christianity would require them to actually speak with and listen to Christians. THAT certainly isn't going to happen.

Why avoid directly addressing me?

 

[Cecilie1200]

As a 1) white 2) traditionally married 3) male, I see no reason through my Christianity to vote for the GOP. Neither will the Democrats get my vote. You see, Jesus was about having faith and helping the least among us. That means things like social security and Medicare are good. Many here bastardized them. They have helped millions of hard working people who worked their tails off. The Dems are a no go as well as I don't know what they are all about. Not even worth discussing. But to tell me the GOP follows and is based on the Christian doctrine I say that's a big load of garbage. They love the wealthy and still ensure they are taken care of first. The average guy is just as important in my eyes.

Feel free to worship and obey God however you see fit; that's between you and Him, and the whole point of the First Amendment.

Just don't presume to sententiously lecture me on how your way is the "one, true, correct way", or that it's "a big load of garbage" that anyone could POSSIBLY disagree with you and be just as sincerely obeying God as they understand it as you are.

Pride is the greatest of the deadly sins, my friend, not to mention making you an utter jackass to deal with.

 

[Dragonlady]

you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Why would he or anyone else have to vote for Joe “Fingers” Biden?

Because Joe Biden's accuser has disappeared under the waves, when her story was proven to be a lie. The right should have vetted this woman and her story more closely before supporting her. She claimed she filed a report to the ethics office. She doesn't have a copy, but she has a copy of all of the rest of her employment file. Then she changed her story. She didn't file a report, she had an "intake interview", but didn't go forward with a claim. That's a lot different than "I filed a claim and they did nothing".

Reade took her claims to the legitimate press and no one would publish her story. That's because they investigated her story and it didn't hold up. She published her claims on FaceBook. Republicans, desperate for ammo against Biden, jumped on this opportunity. When her Republican law firm dropped the case, and no one else picked it up, you knew that even the lawyers didn't believe her.

There is no "private alcove" in the Senate Hallway where she claims this happened. Capital staffers said that this corridor is well used, well lit and busy. The chances that he could attack her in this way and not be seen by others are slim and nil. Then there's her long history of financial cons

The right has been trying to smear Biden with lies and conspiracy theories since before he announced his candidacy, and it's not working. Joe Biden is not Hillary Clinton. Republicans haven't been smearing his character and lying about him for the past 30 years. In fact, Republicans have all praised Joe Biden as an honest, and decent man. Right up until the moment he declared his candidacy.

Republicans need a better election strategy than lying about the opposition. It's not going to work this time. Just like it didn't work the last time Republicans crashed the economy, but this time is different. This is like the election of Ronald Reagan. The country is going in the wrong direction, and its' not working. Republican policies have, in essence, destroyed the nation.

40 years of Republican fiscal policies have enriched the Baby Boomers and left everyone else broke, sick and unemployed. 80% of the wealth of the nation is owned by the top 10%. In Norway, that number is 53%. In Canada it's 47%. They're two of the best countries in the world to live in. The middle class in both countries is growing, while the American middle class continues to lose ground.

1. Trends in income and wealth inequality

Barely 10 years past the end of the Great Recession in 2009, the U.S. economy is doing well on several fronts. The labor market is on a job-creating

www.pewsocialtrends.org

 

[JustAGuy1]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

The left thinks Christianity is supposed to be all about judging and condemning people for not being perfect, because that's what THEY are all about, and understanding Christianity would require them to actually speak with and listen to Christians. THAT certainly isn't going to happen.

Why avoid directly addressing me?

Because you won't answer any questions for $500 Alex

 

[Dragonlady]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

The left thinks Christianity is supposed to be all about judging and condemning people for not being perfect, because that's what THEY are all about, and understanding Christianity would require them to actually speak with and listen to Christians. THAT certainly isn't going to happen.

You don't have the first clue what the left thinks. As always, you make assumptions based on your own biases and prejudices. When have YOU sat down or listened to anyone on the left. What do YOU contribute to these discussions other than a condemnation of any poster on the left, and your usual bitter and angry insults?

"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

We aren't dropping bombs on the Nazi's. I'll take your answer as support for our useless, wasteful, un-Christ like actions.

We were dropping them on ISIS. And other terrorist leaders that have wrought death and destruction on their own innocent people as well as other innocent people world wide.

We funded ISIS.

Yup and I was 100% against the Arab Spring policy pushed by the Obama administration. The guy on one hand ripped bush up and down for Iraq and Afghanistan, then went on to destabilize half of the Middle East with countries that weren’t at all angels but at least stabilizers. But that’s a different issue than the US should never get involved in War at all.

He did. He failed completely as a president. Trump has changed nothing.

He’s far less interventionist than Obama. Much to my surprise. Yes he will order strikes against terrorist or governments “crossing the line”. But that’s it. He’s trying to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq in a not totally irresponsible way much to the chagrin of neo-cons like Bolton telling him not too.

I don’t want to be world police. We shouldn’t. I want us to pull away from that role as much as possible. But we do live in a dangerous world with dangerous actors that are very aggressive and will eventually grow into very deadly and destructive forces for millions if the US were to disappear from the world stage as enforcers. Most of those forces won’t attack us immediately, and will spend their time mopping up their neighbors and growing power until they are able to threaten us. We tried non-intervention leading up too and during WW2. Hitlers intentions were very obvious yet we clinged on to the belief that war could be avoided. It didn’t work. Evil people take power, grow power, and eventually grow enough power that only a truly devastating war to both sides can stop them.

 

[forkup]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

pknopp only wants to ASK questions, never answer them.

Strawman questions at that. Like we’re just bombing completely innocent people and that’s just how we fight war. Like we didn’t spend billions of dollars spearheading precision technology to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. And he’ll cite accidental tragedies as his proof. That’s war. Accidents happen. They’re absolutely tragic. What’s far more tragic is the evil people killing innocent populations that we are trying to stop. Apparently this scenario doesn’t exist in his mind. I’m not saying the US is perfect, or didn’t participate in anything shameful, as I have stated many times. But who is he comparing us too? Name a single country that defends innocent populations as much as US. The rest of the west throws a couple of planes our way and says “we did our part” while were the ones bombing the people that want to murder their civilians en masse. But apparently bombing these evil people isn’t Christian.

We have NO business dropping bombs at all.

We weren’t, we opted not too back in the 90s. One of the guys we chose not too wound up crashing planes into the World Trade Center. What would China take by force knowing we’re not there to stop them? How long would Kim Jong Un wait time attack South Korea and level Seoul knowing we wouldn’t retaliate? What other Baltic countries would Russia take by force knowing we wouldn’t step in to defend? How fast would Iran swallow their neighbors knowing we wouldn’t step in? How many more genocides would brutal dictators order knowing the US is no longer threatening them if they do. We can’t be world police. But the world is not a safe place. The human condition is to carry out conquest, subjugate, enslave, and wipe out the tribes around you. It was the perpetual state of the world before the US became a super power. Now war is limited to boarder skirmishes, civil wars, and small conflicts vs what wars use to be worldwide.

And yet you are vilifying the person who's running on a return to this status quo. While at the same time supporting the person that has spent his entire first term in office, trying to upturn the exact mechanisms that have decreased global conflict. Do you see any problem with that?

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

pknopp only wants to ASK questions, never answer them.

Strawman questions at that. Like we’re just bombing completely innocent people and that’s just how we fight war. Like we didn’t spend billions of dollars spearheading precision technology to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. And he’ll cite accidental tragedies as his proof. That’s war. Accidents happen. They’re absolutely tragic. What’s far more tragic is the evil people killing innocent populations that we are trying to stop. Apparently this scenario doesn’t exist in his mind. I’m not saying the US is perfect, or didn’t participate in anything shameful, as I have stated many times. But who is he comparing us too? Name a single country that defends innocent populations as much as US. The rest of the west throws a couple of planes our way and says “we did our part” while were the ones bombing the people that want to murder their civilians en masse. But apparently bombing these evil people isn’t Christian.

We have NO business dropping bombs at all.

We weren’t, we opted not too back in the 90s. One of the guys we chose not too wound up crashing planes into the World Trade Center. What would China take by force knowing we’re not there to stop them? How long would Kim Jong Un wait time attack South Korea and level Seoul knowing we wouldn’t retaliate? What other Baltic countries would Russia take by force knowing we wouldn’t step in to defend? How fast would Iran swallow their neighbors knowing we wouldn’t step in? How many more genocides would brutal dictators order knowing the US is no longer threatening them if they do. We can’t be world police. But the world is not a safe place. The human condition is to carry out conquest, subjugate, enslave, and wipe out the tribes around you. It was the perpetual state of the world before the US became a super power. Now war is limited to boarder skirmishes, civil wars, and small conflicts vs what wars use to be worldwide.

And yet you are vilifying the person who's running on a return to this status quo. While at the same time supporting the person that has spent his entire first term in office, trying to upturn the exact mechanisms that have decreased global conflict. Do you see any problem with that?

Which mechanisms? It’s not mechanisms it’s people that perpetuate global conflicts. Obama was narcissistic enough to believe that he could put in the “right” people if he only destabilized half the Middle East. That didn’t turn out too well. Trump on the other hand had a clear goal, defeat ISIS. He did that fairly well. He drew clear lines and showed if you cross, we will do something about it. He’s been surprisingly good with foreign policy. Iran was stirring up shit with the rest of the world for months. He did one strike against them, and they stopped. Syria dared him twice with chemical attacks, and trump responded with strikes of his own both times. He’s not a complete non-interventionist, but he’s still shying away from conflicts we don’t need to involve ourselves in. There’s a very fine, complicated, nuanced line to walk between discouraging aggression and atrocities and getting involved in long conflicts, and he’s walking that line fairly well. Much better than either bush, Clinton, or Obama.