To all those on the left who question the faith of evangelicals for voting Trump

[Moonglow]

What option are you giving them? Do you actually believe they’re going to vote for the party that’s been sneering at them for decades now? Should they go to the party that’s taking out “in god we trust”? Do you actually think they’re going to go with the party that’s for abortion up until the moment of birth and even after? Do you actually think they want to vote for the party that is making it illegal for them to practice their religion in the business they own?

How about the party that’s now attacking them? All I mentioned before was just saber rattling and aggressive stances in the culture war. They have now just fired the first of many shots they’re going to fire in the culture war.

WATCH: Protesters Storm Baptist Church, Harass Children, Assault Parishioners: ‘How’s Your Head Feel, Pastor?’ | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

PS: To the moderators. Don’t you dare move this to any other thread. The left has made this political and politics is exactly where this belongs.

You must be mad to think that the US can function with just a two party system in place which forces us to accept what the slave masters give us for our representative government.

 

[sakinago]

What option are you giving them? Do you actually believe they’re going to vote for the party that’s been sneering at them for decades now? Should they go to the party that’s taking out “in god we trust”? Do you actually think they’re going to go with the party that’s for abortion up until the moment of birth and even after? Do you actually think they want to vote for the party that is making it illegal for them to practice their religion in the business they own?

How about the party that’s now attacking them? All I mentioned before was just saber rattling and aggressive stances in the culture war. They have now just fired the first of many shots they’re going to fire in the culture war.

WATCH: Protesters Storm Baptist Church, Harass Children, Assault Parishioners: ‘How’s Your Head Feel, Pastor?’ | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

PS: To the moderators. Don’t you dare move this to any other thread. The left has made this political and politics is exactly where this belongs.

You must be mad to think that the US can function with just a two party system in place which forces us to accept what the slave masters give us for our representative government.

I voted 3rd party in 2016.

 

[KoalaCorp]

You can vote for Kayne!

 

[Moonglow]

What option are you giving them? Do you actually believe they’re going to vote for the party that’s been sneering at them for decades now? Should they go to the party that’s taking out “in god we trust”? Do you actually think they’re going to go with the party that’s for abortion up until the moment of birth and even after? Do you actually think they want to vote for the party that is making it illegal for them to practice their religion in the business they own?

How about the party that’s now attacking them? All I mentioned before was just saber rattling and aggressive stances in the culture war. They have now just fired the first of many shots they’re going to fire in the culture war.

WATCH: Protesters Storm Baptist Church, Harass Children, Assault Parishioners: ‘How’s Your Head Feel, Pastor?’ | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

PS: To the moderators. Don’t you dare move this to any other thread. The left has made this political and politics is exactly where this belongs.

You must be mad to think that the US can function with just a two party system in place which forces us to accept what the slave masters give us for our representative government.

I voted 3rd party in 2016.

I have for years and years because well, the others suck...

 

[Moonglow]

You can vote for Kayne!

No, no more TV stars that are filthy rich feeding at the govt. feed trough..

 

[forkup]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

pknopp only wants to ASK questions, never answer them.

Strawman questions at that. Like we’re just bombing completely innocent people and that’s just how we fight war. Like we didn’t spend billions of dollars spearheading precision technology to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. And he’ll cite accidental tragedies as his proof. That’s war. Accidents happen. They’re absolutely tragic. What’s far more tragic is the evil people killing innocent populations that we are trying to stop. Apparently this scenario doesn’t exist in his mind. I’m not saying the US is perfect, or didn’t participate in anything shameful, as I have stated many times. But who is he comparing us too? Name a single country that defends innocent populations as much as US. The rest of the west throws a couple of planes our way and says “we did our part” while were the ones bombing the people that want to murder their civilians en masse. But apparently bombing these evil people isn’t Christian.

We have NO business dropping bombs at all.

We weren’t, we opted not too back in the 90s. One of the guys we chose not too wound up crashing planes into the World Trade Center. What would China take by force knowing we’re not there to stop them? How long would Kim Jong Un wait time attack South Korea and level Seoul knowing we wouldn’t retaliate? What other Baltic countries would Russia take by force knowing we wouldn’t step in to defend? How fast would Iran swallow their neighbors knowing we wouldn’t step in? How many more genocides would brutal dictators order knowing the US is no longer threatening them if they do. We can’t be world police. But the world is not a safe place. The human condition is to carry out conquest, subjugate, enslave, and wipe out the tribes around you. It was the perpetual state of the world before the US became a super power. Now war is limited to boarder skirmishes, civil wars, and small conflicts vs what wars use to be worldwide.

And yet you are vilifying the person who's running on a return to this status quo. While at the same time supporting the person that has spent his entire first term in office, trying to upturn the exact mechanisms that have decreased global conflict. Do you see any problem with that?

Which mechanisms? It’s not mechanisms it’s people that perpetuate global conflicts. Obama was narcissistic enough to believe that he could put in the “right” people if he only destabilized half the Middle East. That didn’t turn out too well. Trump on the other hand had a clear goal, defeat ISIS. He did that fairly well. He drew clear lines and showed if you cross, we will do something about it. He’s been surprisingly good with foreign policy. Iran was stirring up shit with the rest of the world for months. He did one strike against them, and they stopped. Syria dared him twice with chemical attacks, and trump responded with strikes of his own both times. He’s not a complete non-interventionist, but he’s still shying away from conflicts we don’t need to involve ourselves in. There’s a very fine, complicated, nuanced line to walk between discouraging aggression and atrocities and getting involved in long conflicts, and he’s walking that line fairly well. Much better than either bush, Clinton, or Obama.

Mechanism as NATO and the UN, or more broadly international agreements. The relative peace you are touting are a direct result of having good cooperation amongst the richest nations in the world and free trade. Making major conflict to dangerous and disruptive to contemplate.

If you want to start an OP contrasting Obama's policies to Trump's go right ahead. I'll even reply. But here we are talking about contrasting Trump to Biden. And I assert if you agree with keeping the world a stable and relatively stable place Trump's policies have achieved the exact opposite. He has destabilized US relations and withdrawn from America's position creating a power vacuum. Those are dangerous.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

We aren't dropping bombs on the Nazi's. I'll take your answer as support for our useless, wasteful, un-Christ like actions.

We were dropping them on ISIS. And other terrorist leaders that have wrought death and destruction on their own innocent people as well as other innocent people world wide.

We funded ISIS.

Yup and I was 100% against the Arab Spring policy pushed by the Obama administration. The guy on one hand ripped bush up and down for Iraq and Afghanistan, then went on to destabilize half of the Middle East with countries that weren’t at all angels but at least stabilizers. But that’s a different issue than the US should never get involved in War at all.

He did. He failed completely as a president. Trump has changed nothing.

He’s far less interventionist than Obama. Much to my surprise. Yes he will order strikes against terrorist or governments “crossing the line”. But that’s it. He’s trying to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq in a not totally irresponsible way much to the chagrin of neo-cons like Bolton telling him not too.

I don’t want to be world police. We shouldn’t. I want us to pull away from that role as much as possible. But we do live in a dangerous world with dangerous actors that are very aggressive and will eventually grow into very deadly and destructive forces for millions if the US were to disappear from the world stage as enforcers. Most of those forces won’t attack us immediately, and will spend their time mopping up their neighbors and growing power until they are able to threaten us. We tried non-intervention leading up too and during WW2. Hitlers intentions were very obvious yet we clinged on to the belief that war could be avoided. It didn’t work. Evil people take power, grow power, and eventually grow enough power that only a truly devastating war to both sides can stop them.

You don't want to be the world police but then feel you have to argue with me when I argue that the things we do as the world police are wrong?

 

[sakinago]

What option are you giving them? Do you actually believe they’re going to vote for the party that’s been sneering at them for decades now? Should they go to the party that’s taking out “in god we trust”? Do you actually think they’re going to go with the party that’s for abortion up until the moment of birth and even after? Do you actually think they want to vote for the party that is making it illegal for them to practice their religion in the business they own?

How about the party that’s now attacking them? All I mentioned before was just saber rattling and aggressive stances in the culture war. They have now just fired the first of many shots they’re going to fire in the culture war.

WATCH: Protesters Storm Baptist Church, Harass Children, Assault Parishioners: ‘How’s Your Head Feel, Pastor?’ | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

PS: To the moderators. Don’t you dare move this to any other thread. The left has made this political and politics is exactly where this belongs.

You must be mad to think that the US can function with just a two party system in place which forces us to accept what the slave masters give us for our representative government.

I voted 3rd party in 2016.

I have for years and years because well, the others suck...

2 party systems aren’t a 100% negative. They force multiple factions within the parties to work with the multiple factions of the other to come to a consensus. Vs European multi party systems where factions stay in their respected factions and only the party that wins gets their way. It’s also closer to the way the human psyche operates. The masculine law and order conservation side, and the feminine creative destruction renewal side. Both side obviously have their terrible extremes, but both need to work together to fight those extremes. That being said, both parties in the US are in need of dire reform.

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

We aren't dropping bombs on the Nazi's. I'll take your answer as support for our useless, wasteful, un-Christ like actions.

We were dropping them on ISIS. And other terrorist leaders that have wrought death and destruction on their own innocent people as well as other innocent people world wide.

We funded ISIS.

Yup and I was 100% against the Arab Spring policy pushed by the Obama administration. The guy on one hand ripped bush up and down for Iraq and Afghanistan, then went on to destabilize half of the Middle East with countries that weren’t at all angels but at least stabilizers. But that’s a different issue than the US should never get involved in War at all.

He did. He failed completely as a president. Trump has changed nothing.

He’s far less interventionist than Obama. Much to my surprise. Yes he will order strikes against terrorist or governments “crossing the line”. But that’s it. He’s trying to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq in a not totally irresponsible way much to the chagrin of neo-cons like Bolton telling him not too.

I don’t want to be world police. We shouldn’t. I want us to pull away from that role as much as possible. But we do live in a dangerous world with dangerous actors that are very aggressive and will eventually grow into very deadly and destructive forces for millions if the US were to disappear from the world stage as enforcers. Most of those forces won’t attack us immediately, and will spend their time mopping up their neighbors and growing power until they are able to threaten us. We tried non-intervention leading up too and during WW2. Hitlers intentions were very obvious yet we clinged on to the belief that war could be avoided. It didn’t work. Evil people take power, grow power, and eventually grow enough power that only a truly devastating war to both sides can stop them.

You don't want to be the world police but then feel you have to argue with me when I argue that the things we do as the world police are wrong?

No I argue that the world isn’t as simple as be the world police or don’t. There’s bad consequences at both ends. We’ve seen the result of those consequences. The non-interventionist is far more deadly and destructive. I’d prefer the rest of the world that shares our values helps participate in the “policing” for lack of a better term. My argument is simply that there is a fine line we need to walk. We leave the world stage and leave a power vacuum for far worse actors to take the stage.

 

[forkup]

What option are you giving them? Do you actually believe they’re going to vote for the party that’s been sneering at them for decades now? Should they go to the party that’s taking out “in god we trust”? Do you actually think they’re going to go with the party that’s for abortion up until the moment of birth and even after? Do you actually think they want to vote for the party that is making it illegal for them to practice their religion in the business they own?

How about the party that’s now attacking them? All I mentioned before was just saber rattling and aggressive stances in the culture war. They have now just fired the first of many shots they’re going to fire in the culture war.

WATCH: Protesters Storm Baptist Church, Harass Children, Assault Parishioners: ‘How’s Your Head Feel, Pastor?’ | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

PS: To the moderators. Don’t you dare move this to any other thread. The left has made this political and politics is exactly where this belongs.

You must be mad to think that the US can function with just a two party system in place which forces us to accept what the slave masters give us for our representative government.

I voted 3rd party in 2016.

I have for years and years because well, the others suck...

2 party systems aren’t a 100% negative. They force multiple factions within the parties to work with the multiple factions of the other to come to a consensus. Vs European multi party systems where factions stay in their respected factions and only the party that wins gets their way. It’s also closer to the way the human psyche operates. The masculine law and order conservation side, and the feminine creative destruction renewal side. Both side obviously have their terrible extremes, but both need to work together to fight those extremes. That being said, both parties in the US are in need of dire reform.

Actually you are a hundred percent wrong here. I live in a parliamentary Democracy that has about 10 separate parties. The winner of the elections typically gets around 20 to 25 percent of the vote. This most of the time allows them to have the leadership position but they are REQUIRED to compromise with other parties to get a majority. They don't just"get their way. "

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

pknopp only wants to ASK questions, never answer them.

Strawman questions at that. Like we’re just bombing completely innocent people and that’s just how we fight war. Like we didn’t spend billions of dollars spearheading precision technology to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. And he’ll cite accidental tragedies as his proof. That’s war. Accidents happen. They’re absolutely tragic. What’s far more tragic is the evil people killing innocent populations that we are trying to stop. Apparently this scenario doesn’t exist in his mind. I’m not saying the US is perfect, or didn’t participate in anything shameful, as I have stated many times. But who is he comparing us too? Name a single country that defends innocent populations as much as US. The rest of the west throws a couple of planes our way and says “we did our part” while were the ones bombing the people that want to murder their civilians en masse. But apparently bombing these evil people isn’t Christian.

We have NO business dropping bombs at all.

We weren’t, we opted not too back in the 90s. One of the guys we chose not too wound up crashing planes into the World Trade Center. What would China take by force knowing we’re not there to stop them? How long would Kim Jong Un wait time attack South Korea and level Seoul knowing we wouldn’t retaliate? What other Baltic countries would Russia take by force knowing we wouldn’t step in to defend? How fast would Iran swallow their neighbors knowing we wouldn’t step in? How many more genocides would brutal dictators order knowing the US is no longer threatening them if they do. We can’t be world police. But the world is not a safe place. The human condition is to carry out conquest, subjugate, enslave, and wipe out the tribes around you. It was the perpetual state of the world before the US became a super power. Now war is limited to boarder skirmishes, civil wars, and small conflicts vs what wars use to be worldwide.

And yet you are vilifying the person who's running on a return to this status quo. While at the same time supporting the person that has spent his entire first term in office, trying to upturn the exact mechanisms that have decreased global conflict. Do you see any problem with that?

Which mechanisms? It’s not mechanisms it’s people that perpetuate global conflicts. Obama was narcissistic enough to believe that he could put in the “right” people if he only destabilized half the Middle East. That didn’t turn out too well. Trump on the other hand had a clear goal, defeat ISIS. He did that fairly well. He drew clear lines and showed if you cross, we will do something about it. He’s been surprisingly good with foreign policy. Iran was stirring up shit with the rest of the world for months. He did one strike against them, and they stopped. Syria dared him twice with chemical attacks, and trump responded with strikes of his own both times. He’s not a complete non-interventionist, but he’s still shying away from conflicts we don’t need to involve ourselves in. There’s a very fine, complicated, nuanced line to walk between discouraging aggression and atrocities and getting involved in long conflicts, and he’s walking that line fairly well. Much better than either bush, Clinton, or Obama.

Mechanism as NATO and the UN, or more broadly international agreements. The relative peace you are touting are a direct result of having good cooperation amongst the richest nations in the world and free trade. Making major conflict to dangerous and disruptive to contemplate.

If you want to start an OP contrasting Obama's policies to Trump's go right ahead. I'll even reply. But here we are talking about contrasting Trump to Biden. And I assert if you agree with keeping the world a stable and relatively stable place Trump's policies have achieved the exact opposite. He has destabilized US relations and withdrawn from America's position creating a power vacuum. Those are dangerous.

The UN is a joke. An utter joke. Some of the worst human rights offenders telling liberal democratic countries they’re evil. Then they ignore clear genocides and human right violations and never lift a finger or speak up. A J-O-K-E. It’s all about political maneuvering and gaining more power and money for the UN

NATO on the other hand is something I support. Long before trump I’ve been saying the rest of NATO countries need to start spending they money that they agreed to spend and long neglected. Trump pushed that issue and we have seen results. Whether or not Trump actually dislikes NATO or it was just a negotiation position he took, I couldn’t tell you. He didn’t back out of NATO, and NATO as a force is stronger than ever in the past 20 years. I didn’t like the anti-NATO talk from trump, but I’m happy with the results. Trumps position has always been that we should not be providing the overwhelming majority funding for these organizations while the rest of the world gives chicken scratch in compassion. Especially when they’re not living up to their mission statements. Just like the WHO has proven being a shill for China to the detriment of the rest of the world.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

We aren't dropping bombs on the Nazi's. I'll take your answer as support for our useless, wasteful, un-Christ like actions.

We were dropping them on ISIS. And other terrorist leaders that have wrought death and destruction on their own innocent people as well as other innocent people world wide.

We funded ISIS.

Yup and I was 100% against the Arab Spring policy pushed by the Obama administration. The guy on one hand ripped bush up and down for Iraq and Afghanistan, then went on to destabilize half of the Middle East with countries that weren’t at all angels but at least stabilizers. But that’s a different issue than the US should never get involved in War at all.

He did. He failed completely as a president. Trump has changed nothing.

He’s far less interventionist than Obama. Much to my surprise. Yes he will order strikes against terrorist or governments “crossing the line”. But that’s it. He’s trying to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq in a not totally irresponsible way much to the chagrin of neo-cons like Bolton telling him not too.

I don’t want to be world police. We shouldn’t. I want us to pull away from that role as much as possible. But we do live in a dangerous world with dangerous actors that are very aggressive and will eventually grow into very deadly and destructive forces for millions if the US were to disappear from the world stage as enforcers. Most of those forces won’t attack us immediately, and will spend their time mopping up their neighbors and growing power until they are able to threaten us. We tried non-intervention leading up too and during WW2. Hitlers intentions were very obvious yet we clinged on to the belief that war could be avoided. It didn’t work. Evil people take power, grow power, and eventually grow enough power that only a truly devastating war to both sides can stop them.

You don't want to be the world police but then feel you have to argue with me when I argue that the things we do as the world police are wrong?

No I argue that the world isn’t as simple as be the world police or don’t. There’s bad consequences at both ends. We’ve seen the result of those consequences. The non-interventionist is far more deadly and destructive. I’d prefer the rest of the world that shares our values helps participate in the “policing” for lack of a better term. My argument is simply that there is a fine line we need to walk. We leave the world stage and leave a power vacuum for far worse actors to take the stage.

They aren't going to help. Why not? They no longer trust us. You can only lie for so long. Almost 20 years in Iraq. Tell me, how long do you need?

 

[sakinago]

What option are you giving them? Do you actually believe they’re going to vote for the party that’s been sneering at them for decades now? Should they go to the party that’s taking out “in god we trust”? Do you actually think they’re going to go with the party that’s for abortion up until the moment of birth and even after? Do you actually think they want to vote for the party that is making it illegal for them to practice their religion in the business they own?

How about the party that’s now attacking them? All I mentioned before was just saber rattling and aggressive stances in the culture war. They have now just fired the first of many shots they’re going to fire in the culture war.

WATCH: Protesters Storm Baptist Church, Harass Children, Assault Parishioners: ‘How’s Your Head Feel, Pastor?’ | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

PS: To the moderators. Don’t you dare move this to any other thread. The left has made this political and politics is exactly where this belongs.

You must be mad to think that the US can function with just a two party system in place which forces us to accept what the slave masters give us for our representative government.

I voted 3rd party in 2016.

I have for years and years because well, the others suck...

2 party systems aren’t a 100% negative. They force multiple factions within the parties to work with the multiple factions of the other to come to a consensus. Vs European multi party systems where factions stay in their respected factions and only the party that wins gets their way. It’s also closer to the way the human psyche operates. The masculine law and order conservation side, and the feminine creative destruction renewal side. Both side obviously have their terrible extremes, but both need to work together to fight those extremes. That being said, both parties in the US are in need of dire reform.

Actually you are a hundred percent wrong here. I live in a parliamentary Democracy that has about 10 separate parties. The winner of the elections typically gets around 20 to 25 percent of the vote. This most of the time allows them to have the leadership position but they are REQUIRED to compromise with other parties to get a majority. They don't just"get their way. "

My characterization might have been hyperbolic if multi-party systems...but it wasn’t too far off. My characterization of the 2 party system and the human psyche was spot on on the other hand. Its not all roses and butterflies for either system. My point was the 2 party system is not a disaster as many in the US like to characterize.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How is it possible for "those on the left" to question anybody's faith?

They feel qualified to judge and condemn anyone and everyone for being imperfect, because they apparently think their own shit doesn't stink.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What option are you giving them? Do you actually believe they’re going to vote for the party that’s been sneering at them for decades now? Should they go to the party that’s taking out “in god we trust”? Do you actually think they’re going to go with the party that’s for abortion up until the moment of birth and even after? Do you actually think they want to vote for the party that is making it illegal for them to practice their religion in the business they own?

How about the party that’s now attacking them? All I mentioned before was just saber rattling and aggressive stances in the culture war. They have now just fired the first of many shots they’re going to fire in the culture war.

WATCH: Protesters Storm Baptist Church, Harass Children, Assault Parishioners: ‘How’s Your Head Feel, Pastor?’ | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

PS: To the moderators. Don’t you dare move this to any other thread. The left has made this political and politics is exactly where this belongs.

I think they're in the right party. Stay there.

So you're denying your company to people who had no desire to have anything to do with you. Well, I guess that's pretty much the only way you'd ever get to do it.

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

We aren't dropping bombs on the Nazi's. I'll take your answer as support for our useless, wasteful, un-Christ like actions.

We were dropping them on ISIS. And other terrorist leaders that have wrought death and destruction on their own innocent people as well as other innocent people world wide.

We funded ISIS.

Yup and I was 100% against the Arab Spring policy pushed by the Obama administration. The guy on one hand ripped bush up and down for Iraq and Afghanistan, then went on to destabilize half of the Middle East with countries that weren’t at all angels but at least stabilizers. But that’s a different issue than the US should never get involved in War at all.

He did. He failed completely as a president. Trump has changed nothing.

He’s far less interventionist than Obama. Much to my surprise. Yes he will order strikes against terrorist or governments “crossing the line”. But that’s it. He’s trying to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq in a not totally irresponsible way much to the chagrin of neo-cons like Bolton telling him not too.

I don’t want to be world police. We shouldn’t. I want us to pull away from that role as much as possible. But we do live in a dangerous world with dangerous actors that are very aggressive and will eventually grow into very deadly and destructive forces for millions if the US were to disappear from the world stage as enforcers. Most of those forces won’t attack us immediately, and will spend their time mopping up their neighbors and growing power until they are able to threaten us. We tried non-intervention leading up too and during WW2. Hitlers intentions were very obvious yet we clinged on to the belief that war could be avoided. It didn’t work. Evil people take power, grow power, and eventually grow enough power that only a truly devastating war to both sides can stop them.

You don't want to be the world police but then feel you have to argue with me when I argue that the things we do as the world police are wrong?

No I argue that the world isn’t as simple as be the world police or don’t. There’s bad consequences at both ends. We’ve seen the result of those consequences. The non-interventionist is far more deadly and destructive. I’d prefer the rest of the world that shares our values helps participate in the “policing” for lack of a better term. My argument is simply that there is a fine line we need to walk. We leave the world stage and leave a power vacuum for far worse actors to take the stage.

They aren't going to help. Why not? They no longer trust us. You can only lie for so long. Almost 20 years in Iraq. Tell me, how long do you need?

Ha! They’ve been paying nothing but lip service for decades since the soviets, they couldn’t stand up to without us, fell.

 

[initforme]

Catering to the wealthy is what many evangelicals now believe in. They've twisted the Bible.

 

[Cecilie1200]

“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”

-Barry Goldwater

Yes and I heard Barry say it.

Yes, and I still don't understand why I should care.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means Charity and Love are expected. It also means Abortion is a sin.

O.K.........do we show this love by dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs on others?

Do we show this charity by cutting SNAP benefits?

Why do you insist on always moving the goal posts? Can you quote where I've ever advocated for a War of any kind? People with no real knowledge of scripture ALWAYS take things to an illogical extreme. YOU take that scripture to mean that can be no limits to charity much as you do with War. That is as illogical as it gets. One can only give so much, there is a point where one must take care of his own first.
There is also a point where War's must be fought although I would say we have not had one of those since WWII.
Have you personlly given away EVERYTHING you have to feed the poor?No you haven't, but that scripture is used usually as a club, a "gotcha" moment.
What do you do with this one?

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me.

I asked a question. If you are saying you do not support our wars (are you?), then I will say great BUT I will note that this "Christian nation" most certainly does.

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me

What is the context in this verse?

What does this one mean?

Matthew 8:5-13 New International Version (NIV)
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

A "yes I support the wars" or "No I do not" would suffice.

Are you suggesting that it was immoral to drop bombs on the Nazis?

The translation of “the meek shall inherit the earth” is incorrect. The correct translation of the word we commonly translated as “meek” is a word we don’t really have in English. The translation is more like “those with swords who know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth.” Which is vastly different from “meek”. This reasoning is why Jesus instructed his disciples to sell their cloaks for swords. It’s not as a show of force, it’s not for the revolution that many Jews at the time thought the “messiah” would bring. It is an understanding that violence is sometimes necessary and it is wrong to completely castrate yourself of the ability for violence. The belief that Jesus was strictly a Passivist is wrong.


“When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know." “

We aren't dropping bombs on the Nazi's. I'll take your answer as support for our useless, wasteful, un-Christ like actions.

We were dropping them on ISIS. And other terrorist leaders that have wrought death and destruction on their own innocent people as well as other innocent people world wide.

We funded ISIS.

Yup and I was 100% against the Arab Spring policy pushed by the Obama administration. The guy on one hand ripped bush up and down for Iraq and Afghanistan, then went on to destabilize half of the Middle East with countries that weren’t at all angels but at least stabilizers. But that’s a different issue than the US should never get involved in War at all.

He did. He failed completely as a president. Trump has changed nothing.

He’s far less interventionist than Obama. Much to my surprise. Yes he will order strikes against terrorist or governments “crossing the line”. But that’s it. He’s trying to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq in a not totally irresponsible way much to the chagrin of neo-cons like Bolton telling him not too.

I don’t want to be world police. We shouldn’t. I want us to pull away from that role as much as possible. But we do live in a dangerous world with dangerous actors that are very aggressive and will eventually grow into very deadly and destructive forces for millions if the US were to disappear from the world stage as enforcers. Most of those forces won’t attack us immediately, and will spend their time mopping up their neighbors and growing power until they are able to threaten us. We tried non-intervention leading up too and during WW2. Hitlers intentions were very obvious yet we clinged on to the belief that war could be avoided. It didn’t work. Evil people take power, grow power, and eventually grow enough power that only a truly devastating war to both sides can stop them.

You don't want to be the world police but then feel you have to argue with me when I argue that the things we do as the world police are wrong?

No I argue that the world isn’t as simple as be the world police or don’t. There’s bad consequences at both ends. We’ve seen the result of those consequences. The non-interventionist is far more deadly and destructive. I’d prefer the rest of the world that shares our values helps participate in the “policing” for lack of a better term. My argument is simply that there is a fine line we need to walk. We leave the world stage and leave a power vacuum for far worse actors to take the stage.

They aren't going to help. Why not? They no longer trust us. You can only lie for so long. Almost 20 years in Iraq. Tell me, how long do you need?

Ha! They’ve been paying nothing but lip service for decades since the soviets, they couldn’t stand up to without us, fell.

We are making the same mistakes they did.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Catering to the wealthy is what many evangelicals now believe in. They've twisted the Bible.

I'm not sure which one I didn't ask for or want more: your psychic interpretation of what others are thinking, or your theological statement as to how the Bible "must" be read.