Time to rename our Confederate Forts

[OldLady]

In their minds it isn't over. And it won't be until we've removed all reminders of it.

That won't work. Let's put ourselves in their shoes. Do you think if the British had won the Revolutionary War and banned all mention of Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams....of natural rights and aversion to tyranny...that we would forget about it?
Did the people of the USSR forget how to pray after all those long years, two or three generations of repression of Christianity, the closure of churches? It's pretty amazing how the day after the commies closed up shop, those churches opened back up and all those good Communists still knew exactly how to run a liturgical service. Huh.

I agree with you it's nuts that the south in its mind is still fighting the War. However, it is what it is. And what you are suggesting will only make things worse. Let the south handle it, one statue at a time, one base or street name at a time. This is just a Democratic whipping, for some reason. We've got enough to rip and tear each other over.

 

[Mushroom]

US Generals who are more deserving

Gen Grant
Gen Pershing
Gen Eisenhower
Gen Marshall
Gen MacArthur
Gen Patton
Gen Bradley

And exactly how many new Forts have we created since the end of WWII?

That's OK, I'll wait until you finish looking.

So right away, that eliminates almost all of your list in one swell foop. It actually eliminates 6 of the 7 you listed. And that one was not available then, because Fort Grant was an active base from 1912-1999.

And sure, we can name something for General Patton. How about cutting off part of Fort Bliss, and redesignating Fort George S. Patton Sr., the home of the 1st Armored Division?

 

[protectionist]

It raises Confederate Generals above American Generals who truly deserve to be honored

No it doesn't, because there are forts name after both Confederate generals and other generals.

Ex, Fort Leonard Wood.....Fort Knox......McDill Air Force Base

 

[protectionist]

In their minds it isn't over. And it won't be until we've removed all reminders of it.

That won't work. Let's put ourselves in their shoes. Do you think if the British had won the Revolutionary War and banned all mention of Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams....of natural rights and aversion to tyranny...that we would forget about it?
Did the people of the USSR forget how to pray after all those long years, two or three generations of repression of Christianity, the closure of churches? It's pretty amazing how the day after the commies closed up shop, those churches opened back up and all those good Communists still knew exactly how to run a liturgical service. Huh.

I agree with you it's nuts that the south in its mind is still fighting the War. However, it is what it is. And what you are suggesting will only make things worse. Let the south handle it, one statue at a time, one base or street name at a time. This is just a Democratic whipping, for some reason. We've got enough to rip and tear each other over.

Plus the forts are all named after SOLDIERS, not politicians. Fighters, not policy makers.

 

[protectionist]

Only demagogues and partisan Republican meatheads obsessively repeat the indubitable historical fact that most Confederates, Southern Jim Crow politicians and Klansmen during and long after Reconstruction were Democratic Party supporters. Democrats today know, at least should know, this history.

But of course TODAY, among both Liberal and Conservative Democrats, as also within its "progressive" wing, everyone identifies themselves as supporters of Lincoln Republicanism and the Union cause.

Unfortunately, many supporters of Donald Trump, who call themselves Republicans but really are right wing reactionaries, hate Lincoln with a passion, see him as a dictator, espouse openly racist views, wave or support the waving of Confederate Flags, oppose all reforms of crony capitalism, and confuse "Making America Great Again" with preserving "Lost Cause" Confederate myths. All this is certainly not true of every or even most Trump supporters, fortunately. But the meathead reactionary element certainly does seem to predominate among Trump supporters here on USMB.

Democrats support the # 1 racism in America >> Affirmative Action.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Raising statues of them and naming bases after them was not wise.

Maybe not. But I don't like the tone of all this. It's too judgmental. If it offends people, change it, move it, whatever. But a bunch of Yankees with a political agenda shouldn't be the ones forcing that change. Let the South sort it out. Statue by statue, base by base. This is the first I heard of anyone bitching about Fort "Bragg." Now the Army is elbowing it's way to the front of the appeasers to say "We might change the names of our bases named for Confederates." Three years ago, they wouldn't have anything to do with it. As far as I know, it was the Army that introduced this into the conversation.
I could be wrong.
But I'm serious the judgmental, rubbing their noses in it tone disheartens me. We've got enough divisiveness in this country right now without refighting the ******* Civil War that's been over 150 years. Just my opinion. No offense meant.

In their minds it isn't over. And it won't be until we've removed all reminders of it. Those statues and place names are of people who fought against the US. We shouldn't glorify them for it. This is 150 years overdue.

Yet somehow not as overdue as your hanging for being a traitorous POS.

 

[flacaltenn]

In their minds it isn't over. And it won't be until we've removed all reminders of it. Those statues and place names are of people who fought against the US. We shouldn't glorify them for it. This is 150 years overdue.

Think that would fix the Catalonia secession problem?? Or are you just ignorant and uninterested about historic regional differences??? You keep on pushing these divisions and see what happens..

Your racist Democrat party is committing the LONGEST and most PAINFUL public suicide of a political party on record in history...

 

[Yarddog]

10 military bases named after Confederate generals

President Donald Trump on Wednesday jumped into the debate over whether to change the names of 10 Army bases that are named for Confederate generals.

www.indystar.com

View attachment 348955

Its all part of history. The names remind us of the war we fought to preserve the union AND to end slavery, and basically, that war is over now. Picking at old wounds is a curious thing but its what political movements like to use as emotional fuel.
I don't go for it because its BS. It's better to face history than run away from it.

It's also a waste of resources to do all this when a. I imagine simply doing something like this is going to come with a price tag as well. I bet you some politician is getting some money through the backdoor on this one.

It is part of history
But why do we have such a twisted view of who we honor in history?
10 first named after Confederate Generals, one after Union Generals

Why Gen Lee and not General Grant?
Why Gen Bragg and Hood but not Gen Sherman and Sheridan?

Why? The Lost Cause movement

Could it be because they were located in the South? At the time they were named I doubt people really cared one way or the other. The nation had other more important things on their mind at the time of their naming. We could probably learn from that wisdom today.

Also, Fort Bragg was named before General Bragg became a Confederate soldier. He was still in the Union at the time. that is probably the sole exception in that regard.

All this is debatable of course but... Democrats have had years to change all these things if it was really important to them, but they seemed to wait until Trump was president so they had something to add to the drama. IMO. Now we find that Elmer Fudd has his carry permit revoked, a ride at Disney land is now racist, Cop Legos need to be melted down and sold back to China as plastic scrap, Cops need to be defunded at the expense of training, Christopher Columbus.. he has to go now too, Books by white authors need to be pulled off the shelf, Gone with the wind.... out the window, Cops show on TV? cancelled because it shows police as too human. painting 800,000 of them as deplorables who are hunting young black men, when police are 18 times more likely to be shot by a black person than the other way around.
The fact that this is all happening at once tells me we are in the beginnings of a cultural revolution which has already been incubated on college campuses around the country.
The removal of those Confederate statues and renaming everything is only part of a larger game, which is why I am against it.
The cultural revolution that is happening is not happening from a place of love. Its coming from a place of hate, jealousy and ideology without critical thinking... no matter how righteous some of those people think they are it is going to end in failure as history bears out whenever this happens.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

10 military bases named after Confederate generals

President Donald Trump on Wednesday jumped into the debate over whether to change the names of 10 Army bases that are named for Confederate generals.

www.indystar.com

View attachment 348955

Okay by me. These were not good people. They should not be immortalized

 

[Mushroom]

Could it be because they were located in the South? At the time they were named I doubt people really cared one way or the other. The nation had other more important things on their mind at the time of their naming. We could probably learn from that wisdom today.

The cultural revolution that is happening is not happening from a place of love. Its coming from a place of hate, jealousy and ideology without critical thinking... no matter how righteous some of those people think they are it is going to end in failure as history bears out whenever this happens.

Pretty much all of those bases were built between WWI and WWII.

To me, this is just more of the kind of nonsense George Orwell warned us about. Erase history, make a new history that falls within lines with what you want people to believe.

But how about we suggest this instead. Many of those bases need a lot of work because they are getting old. How about giving the Army a huge amount of money, and then let them build brand new bases and give them new names? Then we can take these Forts, and turn them over to say International Schools of Basket Weaving and Pot Smoking? Where the annual Kumbaya Festival can be the big annual attraction.

We can build brand new barracks for all that live there, as well as maybe enough housing to support maybe half of those that are married on the post. And not barracks that are quite often Korean War era or older. The last barracks I had to live in actually date to the Korean War, and I have even had to live in some that dated to WWI. And I know of married couples that had to live in houses that were literally built when the base was a fort for fighting Indians and were over 100 years old.

But no, instead of actually trying to discuss things of real importance, they bring up nonsense like this.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

They shouldn’t.

It’s ridiculous to honor those who engaged in treason and war crimes.

 

[Yarddog]

10 military bases named after Confederate generals

President Donald Trump on Wednesday jumped into the debate over whether to change the names of 10 Army bases that are named for Confederate generals.

www.indystar.com

View attachment 348955

Okay by me. These were not good people. They should not be immortalized

Yes maybe that is true. They were not good people? General Sherman committed war atrocities on civilians as well, Ex union Generals committed atrocities against American Indians in some cases.

the other thing to ME is, this may all be true and debatable but at the current time there seems to be this push for conformity of language and thought coming at us from every direction from the 'Left' and this is all just part of that movement, so for that reason I look at it with suspicion.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“What is Braxton Bragg to Donald Trump, or Trump to Braxton Bragg?

It was always strange (and outrageous) to have U.S. military bases named for traitors — for Confederate generals who rebelled against the Union to defend slavery. And military leaders seem willing to change those bases’ names. But Trump says no.
[…]
Trump evidently can’t bring himself to make even a symbolic show of sympathy. And trying to understand his incapacity helps explain what Trumpism — and, indeed, modern conservatism as a whole — is all about.”

Opinion | Reactionaries Are Having a Bad Month (Published 2020)

But they’ll be dangerous in the months ahead.

www.nytimes.com

True.

And that most conservatives defend traitors and war criminals comes as no surprise, of course.

 

[Mushroom]

And that most conservatives defend traitors and war criminals comes as no surprise, of course.

So you support mindless and meaningless things, got it.

And gee, looking back it seems that all of those bases were named as such when the Democrats had a complete lock on those regions. And they had decades to do something about it. But... ummmm, ummm, TRUMP!, ummm, ummm.

If you are so strongly against Traitors, how about renaming Washington DC? He was a traitor.

 

[Yarddog]

And that most conservatives defend traitors and war criminals comes as no surprise, of course.

So you support mindless and meaningless things, got it.

And gee, looking back it seems that all of those bases were named as such when the Democrats had a complete lock on those regions. And they had decades to do something about it. But... ummmm, ummm, TRUMP!, ummm, ummm.

If you are so strongly against Traitors, how about renaming Washington DC? He was a traitor.

Right, and to me this is the thing. I have no reason to defend those Confederate Generals being a Californian, but the fringe of the Democrat party are communists and they are the ones doing the pushing. Renaming the forts, taking down statues is all a play to flex their power. Once they are done with that they will build on that accomplishment and move on to the next thing. they will always find an inequality to keep the revolution alive because the world is inherently unequal.
next it will be Washington and Jefferson and other Icons that need to be replaced with something else. Hell, these are the same people who want to defund the police, remove them from TV shows, even remove a cartoon dog becasue its a police dog. Its an all around assault of censorship. If you want those statues to remain... YOU MUST BE A RACIST.

And thats the game they play, but I say, No... I just dont want to conform to your game.

 

[Mushroom]

Right, and to me this is the thing. I have no reason to defend those Confederate Generals being a Californian, but the fringe of the Democrat party are communists and they are the ones doing the pushing. Renaming the forts, taking down statues is all a play to flex their power. Once they are done with that they will build on that accomplishment and move on to the next thing. they will always find an inequality to keep the revolution alive because the world is inherently unequal.
next it will be Washington and Jefferson and other Icons that need to be replaced with something else. Hell, these are the same people who want to defund the police, remove them from TV shows, even remove a cartoon dog becasue its a police dog. Its an all around assault of censorship. If you want those statues to remain... YOU MUST BE A RACIST.

And thats the game they play, but I say, No... I just dont want to conform to your game.

I wonder if these same individuals would go around and demand that Scotland remove all memorials and statues of William Wallace.

After all, he staged a revolt, lost, was even tried and drawn and quartered at a traitor to the crown. Yet there are statues of him all over Scotland. Yet I hear no angry demands from England to have those removed. Nor of similar statues of another famous traitor and revolutionary, Rob Roy MacGregor.

No, it has nothing to do with being a "traitor", it is all about politics and trying to turn a statue into something it is not. Those statues are no more racist than my dog is. They simply can not push their political agenda without something to fight against, and picked something that can not fight back since it is just a statue.

I am one of those in this that becomes very adamite against removing or desecrating war memorials. And I do not give a damn which side is represented. I would take as much offense at the attempt to remove a memorial to the German soldiers interred at Normandy as I would in removing one for the Allies. I find the very idea disgusting and distasteful.

What next, digging up and destroying the graves of all former slave owners? Does any of that do a damned bit of good? It is stupid feel-good exploitive politics, and nothing but.

 

[Cellblock2429]

/——-/ Of course they aren’t confederate forts. What do you expect from rightwinger?

He is not a "right winger".

He is a Liberal troll, who posts things like this all the time.

/—-/ I know that.

 

[Correll]

CremeBrulee writes:
“That's the problem with this shit. Any name you might come up with will have some sort of stigma attached to it by someone. I guess you could start naming things after inanimate objects...”

I don’t think we will ever run out of genuine patriots and heroes who fought for worthy American (and universal) values. You are right, though, that we needn’t name forts after Generals only. Sure there may always be differences concerning this or that name, but at least let us not choose the names of men who fought against the United States in a war that defended slavery.

Or ideas even. Ft. Liberty, Ft. Freedom, Ft. Independence. I am not up to date on naming conventions for the military. Once you go down the rabbit hole of changing names though, you should be prepared to change everything named after anything or anyone to suit the whims of how people feel about something at any given time or according to their political ideology.

I love the idea of Ft. Liberty, Ft. Freedom, Ft. Independence. It would be hard to change these names ones folks got used to them. Even the South during the Civil War claimed it was fighting for these ideals. Plus, maybe, hopefully, it would have a salutary subliminal influence on our military, and serve as a reminder of what we are supposed to be fighting for when we fight overseas.

This is meant as an insult to southern Americans, and it would be seen that way.


This is about insulting and marginalizing a group of people.


This is proof that Diversity and Multi-culturalism, as ideas and policy goals, were always lies.

 

[rightwinger]

It raises Confederate Generals above American Generals who truly deserve to be honored

No it doesn't, because there are forts name after both Confederate generals and other generals.

Ex, Fort Leonard Wood.....Fort Knox......McDill Air Force Base

There are many American Generals who accomplished much more than the Confederate traitors.

Grant, Eisenhower, Marshall, MacArthur, Patton

Let’s honor those who earned it

 

[L.K.Eder]

Does Germany have a Camp Hitler?

yep. it is somewhere south, north, west, or east of tikrit, err, karl-marx-stadt.