Time to rename our Confederate Forts

[Marion Morrison]

The title of this thread is idiotic.
There are no Confederate Forts ...

There was one in my neighborhood. Owait..that was an old Spanish-American war fort.

 

[Marion Morrison]

It is part of history
But why do we have such a twisted view of who we honor in history?
10 first named after Confederate Generals, one after Union Generals

Why Gen Lee and not General Grant?
Why Gen Bragg and Hood but not Gen Sherman and Sheridan?

Why? The Lost Cause movement

Bragg, Hood, and Lee are all in southern states. Why would a southern state want to name a fort after men who invaded their state, and attacked it ? Better to have names of men who defended their states.

Those Southern States are part of the UNITED STATES
We should not celebrate rebellion

So why you ******* with them, dumbass?
In no way is all this BS not intended to divide the country and gin up Civil War II.

Keep it up, and there's gonna be a lot of mob snitches and embezzlers sent back North. Watch.

 

[candycorn]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

Meh...I could go either way on this. There may be a good lesson (whether it gets taught or not is another matter) to remind everyone that we did have this insurrection but we came back together.

Besides...I'm not sure how much of an "honor" it is for the confederate generals to now have their forts used to train union soldiers. It seems like the ultimate "F-U" to them.

 

[rightwinger]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

Meh...I could go either way on this. There may be a good lesson (whether it gets taught or not is another matter) to remind everyone that we did have this insurrection but we came back together.

Besides...I'm not sure how much of an "honor" it is for the confederate generals to now have their forts used to train union soldiers. It seems like the ultimate "F-U" to them.

It raises Confederate Generals above American Generals who truly deserve to be honored

 

[candycorn]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

Meh...I could go either way on this. There may be a good lesson (whether it gets taught or not is another matter) to remind everyone that we did have this insurrection but we came back together.

Besides...I'm not sure how much of an "honor" it is for the confederate generals to now have their forts used to train union soldiers. It seems like the ultimate "F-U" to them.

It raises Confederate Generals above American Generals who truly deserve to be honored

Well, it does do that if you look at it that way. The politics of 2020 are currently divisible along race.
A lot of American Generals fought Native Americans. Like there is a Fort William Henry Harrison. Should we re-name that too because of his actions toward the Natives? Fort Custer?

I know it's not the same thing exactly--the CSA was a renegade rabid dog that needed to be put down. But if we're dealing with sensitivities and honoring those who did what is today considered wrong...it is the same thing.

I can go either way.

 

[flacaltenn]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

All the ones you named except Fort Bragg were built during WWII. Per WaPo:

Who are the bases named after?
The bases, all in former Confederate states, were named with input from locals in the Jim Crow era. The Army courted their buy-in because it needed large swaths of land to build sprawling bases in the early 20th century up through World War II.

Three of the biggest bases in the United States are named after Confederate leaders, including some who were famously inept.

Fort Bragg in North Carolina, the headquarters of the Special Forces, bears the name of Gen. Braxton Bragg, a commander often assailed as one of the most bumbling commanders in the war. Bragg was relieved of command after losing the battle for Chattanooga in 1863, then served as a military adviser to Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

Fort Benning in Georgia, the home of Army infantry and airborne training, is named after Brig. Gen. Henry Benning, who led troops at Antietam and Gettysburg. In remarks in 1861 laying out slavery as the reason for secession, Benning warned that abolition would lead to “black governors, black legislatures, black juries, black everything. Is it to be supposed that the white race will stand for that?”

Fort Hood in Texas is named after John Bell Hood, who resigned his commission in the U.S. Army to fight against it. His “reckless” command hastened the fall of Atlanta, one historian wrote, and his losses at the Battle of Franklin were so disastrous that they have been called the “Pickett’s Charge of the West,” in reference to a bloody and failed assault named for Maj. Gen. George Pickett, one of Gen. Robert E. Lee’s top commanders at Gettysburg.
Unlike Bragg and Benning, Hood has no prewar roots in the state that has a post named after him. He commanded Texas troops but was born in Kentucky and buried in Louisiana.

The other bases named after Confederate commanders are Forts Lee, Pickett and A.P. Hill in Virginia, Forts Polk and Beauregard in Louisiana, Fort Gordon in Georgia and Fort Rucker in Alabama.

Why have efforts stalled in the past?
The Army, steeped in its history and traditions, has fought efforts to rename the installations and even the names of roads on its posts, saying in 2017 that such moves would be “controversial and divisive.”
As recently as February, McCarthy said there were no plans to rename the posts. The power to name posts falls to the assistant secretary of the army for manpower and reserve affairs.
McCarthy believes he can unilaterally change the names but would need input from the White House, lawmakers and state and local officials, CNN reported.

Who could bases be named after if they were changed?
The biggest formal push to rename an installation is to reflag Fort Hood after Roy Benavidez, a Green Beret who received the Medal of Honor for action in Cambodia during the Vietnam War.

Benavidez endured “six hours in hell,” he would later say of a 1968 battle in which he held his intestines in his hand, stabbed an enemy soldier to death and loaded the wounded and dead onto two helicopters.
He later said he had so many injuries and was so bloodied he was mistaken for a dead man and stuffed in a body bag until he spat in a doctor’s face. He earned five Purple Hearts in combat.
Benavidez died in 1998, and his name is on a stretch of highway, a Navy cargo ship, a short graphic novel, a commemorative G.I. Joe figure and, in a nod to his passion for education, several Texas schools. The League of United Latin American Citizens, an advocacy group, urged the Army last year to rename Fort Hood for him.

In recent days, veterans and others have lobbied for other historical figures, opening the door for women and minorities. One is Mary Edwards Walker, a surgeon and prisoner during the Civil War and the only woman who has received the Medal of Honor.

Calls on Twitter also intensified to rename Fort Benning after Sgt. 1st Class Alwyn Cashe, a black soldier and Georgia native whose actions in Iraq quickly became legend.
In 2005, his vehicle was destroyed by an improvised explosive device and consumed in flames. Cashe entered the Bradley three times to rescue six soldiers while he himself was on fire. He died of his injuries weeks later.
Cashe received the Silver Star for his heroism, although many say he deserved the Medal of Honor. Renaming Fort Benning after him, advocates have said, would correct at least one injustice.

So many American soldiers more worthy of honor

Alvin York
Audie Murphy
Daniel Inouye

Well, the towns that gave up land for those bases were Jim Crow South towns, and the military asked for their input. So they were named for Southern "heroes." It is true that all these officers were repatriated American citizens. Lincoln did NOT want the South punished for all time. I wish to hell we could leave it alone. I don't see the logic in Trump's reasoning that many soldiers have completed their training there, that it was the last piece of American soil where they stepped foot before dying overseas in a war, so the names should never be changed. But I also don't see the logic in going whole hog into "punishing the south" AGAIN. Lincoln did not want that. I don't think he would like this attitude of "make them pay" all over again.

They were not great men, most were not great Generals, they fought for a cause that is a horror to most of humanity

Why do we honor them?

YOU Honor them? Not asking you to do that. I'm asking you to change the name of your RACIALLY blighted historic Democrat party.. The UNDISPUTED party of the slaver Antebellum South.. And the VESTIGES of that in the form of Lester Maddox, George Wallace, Bull Connor, Robert KKK Byrd..

That horror to humanity gets real when you live within biking distance of 3 or 5 MAJOR Civil War battlefields that draw over 500,000 visitors to this area.. OPEN MINDED people who want a TRUE VIEW of history complete with re-enactments, very well schooled docents and lots of pictures of Confederate stuff..

OPEN MINDED people know that HISTORY is the PREREQUISITE to a better future and are NOT like the Taliban or ISIS or Progressive American radicals who blow UP all the history that micro-aggresses on them.,...

 

[flacaltenn]

It is part of history
But why do we have such a twisted view of who we honor in history?
10 first named after Confederate Generals, one after Union Generals

Why Gen Lee and not General Grant?
Why Gen Bragg and Hood but not Gen Sherman and Sheridan?

Why? The Lost Cause movement

Bragg, Hood, and Lee are all in southern states. Why would a southern state want to name a fort after men who invaded their state, and attacked it ? Better to have names of men who defended their states.

Those Southern States are part of the UNITED STATES
We should not celebrate rebellion

If folks in England thought that way, all the Scottish and Irish Clan crests and tweeds would be BANNED.. And the French in Quebec would be forced to speak English and have THEIR HISTORY purged Taliban style.. Civilized countries dont PURGE history...

 

[Hossfly]

10 military bases named after Confederate generals

President Donald Trump on Wednesday jumped into the debate over whether to change the names of 10 Army bases that are named for Confederate generals.

www.indystar.com

View attachment 348955

Its all part of history. The names remind us of the war we fought to preserve the union AND to end slavery, and basically, that war is over now. Picking at old wounds is a curious thing but its what political movements like to use as emotional fuel.
I don't go for it because its BS. It's better to face history than run away from it.

It's also a waste of resources to do all this when a. I imagine simply doing something like this is going to come with a price tag as well. I bet you some politician is getting some money through the backdoor on this one.

It is part of history
But why do we have such a twisted view of who we honor in history?
10 first named after Confederate Generals, one after Union Generals

Why Gen Lee and not General Grant?
Why Gen Bragg and Hood but not Gen Sherman and Sheridan?

Why? The Lost Cause movement

Fort Sherman Jungle Training School, Panama
Fort Sheridan Illinois
Fort Grant Arizona

 

[OldLady]

Raising statues of them and naming bases after them was not wise.

Maybe not. But I don't like the tone of all this. It's too judgmental. If it offends people, change it, move it, whatever. But a bunch of Yankees with a political agenda shouldn't be the ones forcing that change. Let the South sort it out. Statue by statue, base by base. This is the first I heard of anyone bitching about Fort "Bragg." Now the Army is elbowing it's way to the front of the appeasers to say "We might change the names of our bases named for Confederates." Three years ago, they wouldn't have anything to do with it. As far as I know, it was the Army that introduced this into the conversation.
I could be wrong.
But I'm serious the judgmental, rubbing their noses in it tone disheartens me. We've got enough divisiveness in this country right now without refighting the ******* Civil War that's been over 150 years. Just my opinion. No offense meant.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Let's just look at one example: huge Fort Benning, Georgia. Who is it named after and what did that man stand for? If he were quoted it would undoubtedly be for his most famous speech made at the outbreak of the Civil War:

"What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia, that a separation from the North was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery...."

Though the Republican Party at this time of his speech only opposed the expansion of slavery, and Lincoln did not propose to abolish slavery where it already existed, this ardent secessionist painted a hysterical vision of what remaining in the Union under a democratically elected government would mean:

"We will have black governors, black legislatures, black juries, black everything. Is it to be supposed that the white race will stand for that? It is not a supposable case.... We will be overpowered and our men will be compelled to wander like vagabonds all over the earth; and as for our women, the horrors of their state we cannot contemplate in imagination. That is the fate which abolition will bring upon the white race. ...We will be completely exterminated, and the land will be left in the possession of the blacks, and then it will go back to a wilderness and become another Africa.... Suppose they elevated Charles Sumner to the presidency? Suppose they elevated Fred Douglass, your escaped slave, to the presidency? What would be your position in such an event? I say give me pestilence and famine sooner than that.
— Henry Lewis Benning, Speech of Henry Benning to the Virginia Convention, February 18, 1861.

By the way, Fort Benning, in addition to housing over 100,000 soldiers and their families, also houses the old "School of the Americas" where many South & Central American future military dictators were and are still being trained. What sort of political schooling goes on there? What sort of "American values" are taught? Of course a simple name change won't change all that.

 

[flacaltenn]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

We need to ask why US bases are named after traitors, that what we need to ask.

When you look at why those bases were named the way they were. We built bases in the south because land was cheap and available. Names were chosen to honor local confederate legends and we are now stuck with them

Have we ever named any other US military bases after people we beat?

I'm gonna pull a Crepitus move on you here.. Like your arguments about the "popular vote" being more important than the E-College... "WINNING" is relative in a Civil War.. ALL that died were born American and died American... So lets' look at the game stats here...

APPARENTLY -- The north paid a MUCH HIGHER PRICE for the war... Both in money AND lives.. So what were you saying about those southern general "losers"???

 

[Marion Morrison]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

Meh...I could go either way on this. There may be a good lesson (whether it gets taught or not is another matter) to remind everyone that we did have this insurrection but we came back together.

Besides...I'm not sure how much of an "honor" it is for the confederate generals to now have their forts used to train union soldiers. It seems like the ultimate "F-U" to them.

It raises Confederate Generals above American Generals who truly deserve to be honored

Raising statues of them and naming bases after them was not wise.

Maybe not. But I don't like the tone of all this. It's too judgmental. If it offends people, change it, move it, whatever. But a bunch of Yankees with a political agenda shouldn't be the ones forcing that change. Let the South sort it out. Statue by statue, base by base. This is the first I heard of anyone bitching about Fort "Bragg." Now the Army is elbowing it's way to the front of the appeasers to say "We might change the names of our bases named for Confederates." Three years ago, they wouldn't have anything to do with it. As far as I know, it was the Army that introduced this into the conversation.
I could be wrong.
But I'm serious the judgmental, rubbing their noses in it tone disheartens me. We've got enough divisiveness in this country right now without refighting the ******* Civil War that's been over 150 years. Just my opinion. No offense meant.

The sole purpose of this leftist bullshit is to divide. I'm getting pissed at the idiocy and arrogance of it.
Apparently they want a divided states.
Democrat Americans would not do this, there's another force behind this thing.

All of a sudden these morons of today know better than people did back in 1865? I don't think so.

 

[flacaltenn]

By the way, Fort Benning, in addition to housing over 100,000 soldiers and their families, also houses the old "School of the Americas" where many South & Central American military dictators were trained. What sort of political schooling goes on there? What sort of "American values" are taught? Of course a simple name change won't change all that.

Seems like more relevant things to be fixed or worried about huh? But I'll trade "Fort Benning" for PURGING that LEGACY of the Confederacy -- The DEMOCRAT PARTY... Got a suggestion for a lesser besmirched name for that party???

 

[candycorn]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

We need to ask why US bases are named after traitors, that what we need to ask.

When you look at why those bases were named the way they were. We built bases in the south because land was cheap and available. Names were chosen to honor local confederate legends and we are now stuck with them

Have we ever named any other US military bases after people we beat?

I'm gonna pull a Crepitus move on you here.. Like your arguments about the "popular vote" being more important than the E-College... "WINNING" is relative in a Civil War.. ALL that died were born American and died American... So lets' look at the game stats here...

APPARENTLY -- The north paid a MUCH HIGHER PRICE for the war... Both in money AND lives.. So what were you saying about those southern general "losers"???

According to your stats 42% of rebels were wounded or died. Only 41% of Union soldiers were killed or wounded. Your assessment is not only silly, it's false.

 

[flacaltenn]

Apparently they want a divided states.
Democrat Americans would not do this, there's another force behind this thing.

Bingo.. The Democrats have been DIVIDERS for centuries in this country... They WERE the rebels in the Civil War and into the 20th century...

 

[flacaltenn]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

We need to ask why US bases are named after traitors, that what we need to ask.

When you look at why those bases were named the way they were. We built bases in the south because land was cheap and available. Names were chosen to honor local confederate legends and we are now stuck with them

Have we ever named any other US military bases after people we beat?

I'm gonna pull a Crepitus move on you here.. Like your arguments about the "popular vote" being more important than the E-College... "WINNING" is relative in a Civil War.. ALL that died were born American and died American... So lets' look at the game stats here...

APPARENTLY -- The north paid a MUCH HIGHER PRICE for the war... Both in money AND lives.. So what were you saying about those southern general "losers"???

According to your stats 42% of rebels were wounded or died. Only 41% of Union soldiers were killed or wounded. Your assessment is not only silly, it's false.

Oh no.. We treat this like the popular vote argument against the E-College.. REPRESENTATION SIZE doesn't matter... It's the ABSOLUTE numbers that matter...

 

[WelfareQueen]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

How about Dimocrap named forts. How about Fort Robert Byrd. Oh yeah...he was a Grand Wizard in the Klan. Oopsie.

Okay....Fort Woodrow Wilson. Nah.....probably the most racist President in U.S. History.

Fort FDR? Naw ...major racist.


I know....Fort George Wallace. Naw segregationist and former Dim.


Sorry. All Dims are racists. You're out of luck.

 

[Hossfly]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

We need to ask why US bases are named after traitors, that what we need to ask.

When you look at why those bases were named the way they were. We built bases in the south because land was cheap and available. Names were chosen to honor local confederate legends and we are now stuck with them

Have we ever named any other US military bases after people we beat?

I'm gonna pull a Crepitus move on you here.. Like your arguments about the "popular vote" being more important than the E-College... "WINNING" is relative in a Civil War.. ALL that died were born American and died American... So lets' look at the game stats here...

APPARENTLY -- The north paid a MUCH HIGHER PRICE for the war... Both in money AND lives.. So what were you saying about those southern general "losers"???

According to your stats 42% of rebels were wounded or died. Only 41% of Union soldiers were killed or wounded. Your assessment is not only silly, it's false.

Percentage of dead and wounded is not the issue. The North had 100,000 more deaths.

 

[candycorn]

We need to ask......What have these men done to deserve such an honor?

AP HIll, Braxton Bragg, George Pickett, John Bell Hood......why should they be honored?

Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

www.cnn.com

We need to ask why US bases are named after traitors, that what we need to ask.

When you look at why those bases were named the way they were. We built bases in the south because land was cheap and available. Names were chosen to honor local confederate legends and we are now stuck with them

Have we ever named any other US military bases after people we beat?

I'm gonna pull a Crepitus move on you here.. Like your arguments about the "popular vote" being more important than the E-College... "WINNING" is relative in a Civil War.. ALL that died were born American and died American... So lets' look at the game stats here...

APPARENTLY -- The north paid a MUCH HIGHER PRICE for the war... Both in money AND lives.. So what were you saying about those southern general "losers"???

According to your stats 42% of rebels were wounded or died. Only 41% of Union soldiers were killed or wounded. Your assessment is not only silly, it's false.

Oh no.. We treat this like the popular vote argument against the E-College.. REPRESENTATION SIZE doesn't matter... It's the ABSOLUTE numbers that matter...

Okay....

HRC got a higher percentage of the vote than your blob did too.

Strike two.

 

[flacaltenn]

Apparently the legitimate Spanish govt didn't completely CRUSH the rebels in Catalonia enough after they LED the revolt against Franco in 1975... Stems BACK to the SPANISH civil war.. If they had JUST BANNED that Catalonia flag -- THIS wouldn't be happening over there...

Catalonia's bid for independence from Spain explained

The drive by separatists to break away and the efforts by Madrid to stop them.

www.bbc.com

Yep -- the DAMN FLAGS were the problem....