Time to declare War on Islam

[Brynmr]

According to your idiotic reasoning, child abuse and murder is Constitutionally protected as long as their under the label of 'religion'.

Oh wait.... we already have that. It's called Islam.

Nice dodge or maybe it's a display of ignorance. No right is unlimited. You do realize that don't you?

You're either skimming my comments or you're simply not smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

 

[Coyote]

After all, they committed the first tens of thousands of attacks...

Not declaration of war, but prohibition of Islam in western countries!
All mosques shall be closed, all Muslims shall became a choice:

Conversation to Christianity or Ticket to the country of origin.

so the constitution doesn't matter, eh?

you going to start another inquisition? miss the old christian religion?

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

that doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. When the state CONDONES a particular religion and rolls it's power into the Church is where BOTH the Inquisition and the Crusades sprang from.. Without State sanction -- what kind of jails and soldiers and henchmen did the CHURCH have?

It's the same deal today with tyrannical Theocratic Arab governments. About 20 who run by Sharia law OR have adopted much of Sharia into their legal code. That's why those daily barbaric executions, amputations and stonings are so widespread. And why the GOVTs in that region all sponsor proxy armies to go fight EACH other over tribal and religious differences.

It's when the STATE gets involved -- that religions become malignant..

Once upon a time state and religion were the same. That's the problem.

But it's interesting how you word it - once the state gets involved.

I see it more once religion amasses POLITICAL or STATE power, it becomes malignant. The state is a neutral entity that can be used by the majority to force it's desires on others. People do this...not the state. The direction comes from religion - church or mosque - what ever - which harness' the power of the state.

 

[Coyote]

Nice dodge

Coming from the Queen of Dodge who runs away when asked to back up their (ridiculous) assertions.
View attachment 81917

I simply asked YOU to answer a question that you ran away from. Why should I keep answering your questions when you ignore mine? Doesn't work that way dude. I've backed my assertions with links.

 

[Coyote]

According to your idiotic reasoning, child abuse and murder is Constitutionally protected as long as their under the label of 'religion'.

Oh wait.... we already have that. It's called Islam.

Nice dodge or maybe it's a display of ignorance. No right is unlimited. You do realize that don't you?

You're either skimming my comments or you're simply not smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

If you're going to make stupid comparisons, don't expect to be taken seriously.

 

[Coyote]

Where did you pull that from?

We don't allow every group to exercise their desires. Analogies are difficult for you I see.

Of course we don't allow every group to exercise their desires. However, religious freedom is a right. Pedophilia is not.

"Freedom of Religion"? "Religious Freedom".
Can I go into Dearborn and hold up a sign stating: The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting ...".
Do you REALLY think the followers of islam wouldn't change our Constitution in a heartbeat?
You're OK with that?
What you are failing to grasp is the followers of islam WILL do WHATEVER it takes to turn the world's population into followers of islam.
As seen in Nice etc failing that they will commit mass murder to get rid of the 'infidels.
Wise up pal.

Yes. You can.

Don't tell me you believe that idiocy (debunked many times) that Dearborn has Sharia law or that it's a "no go" zone or any of that crap?

 

[Brynmr]

Nice dodge

Coming from the Queen of Dodge who runs away when asked to back up their (ridiculous) assertions.
View attachment 81917

I simply asked YOU to answer a question that you ran away from. Why should I keep answering your questions when you ignore mine? Doesn't work that way dude. I've backed my assertions with links.

You refused to back up 2 assertions because you couldn't. That's why you ran away.

 

[Coyote]

Nice dodge

Coming from the Queen of Dodge who runs away when asked to back up their (ridiculous) assertions.
View attachment 81917

I simply asked YOU to answer a question that you ran away from. Why should I keep answering your questions when you ignore mine? Doesn't work that way dude. I've backed my assertions with links.

You refused to back up 2 assertions because you couldn't. That's why you ran away.

Ok, I'll indulge you (but I doubt I'll get any answers back from you) - which 2 assertions do you wish backed up?

 

[MikeK]

Terrorism is going to take more than just the Muslim world, to effectively deal with. I think it's more accurate to look at ALL civilized people as victims of these extremists. Any "retributive anti-Muslim purge" would be reminiscent of Hitler's "anti Jewish purge" and it's disturbing that people are in anyway seriously considering purges, concentration camps, internments of innocent civilians.

If you have better ideas for dealing with this menacing situation we will be most interested in knowing what they are.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Any "retributive anti-Muslim purge" would be reminiscent of Hitler's "anti Jewish purge" and it's disturbing that people are in anyway seriously considering purges, concentration camps, internments of innocent civilians.

The major difference in this example and the Holocaust example is the Jews were not engaged in anti-Christian (Infidel) terrorism. They were comparatively innocent, therefore victims. Not adversaries.

 

[flacaltenn]

what would a 'war on islam' entail?

It would take a while to formulate a full strategy but a good place to begin would be to commence construction of massive concentration camps. Israelis could be brought in to manage them.

(How's that for irony?)

Not funny or ironic.. For starters.

 

[flacaltenn]

Not declaration of war, but prohibition of Islam in western countries!
All mosques shall be closed, all Muslims shall became a choice:

Conversation to Christianity or Ticket to the country of origin.

so the constitution doesn't matter, eh?

you going to start another inquisition? miss the old christian religion?

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

that doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. When the state CONDONES a particular religion and rolls it's power into the Church is where BOTH the Inquisition and the Crusades sprang from.. Without State sanction -- what kind of jails and soldiers and henchmen did the CHURCH have?

It's the same deal today with tyrannical Theocratic Arab governments. About 20 who run by Sharia law OR have adopted much of Sharia into their legal code. That's why those daily barbaric executions, amputations and stonings are so widespread. And why the GOVTs in that region all sponsor proxy armies to go fight EACH other over tribal and religious differences.

It's when the STATE gets involved -- that religions become malignant..

and how does that differ from the demands of the bigots that all muslims be forcefully converted? whose weight do you think goes behind that? the government.

they don't want the state to stay out of government. they do want christianity favored.

the state needs to stay out of religion. and religion needs to stay out of government. just like the 1st amendment contemplated.

so i ask again...what the hell was she talking about?

She was talking about the FACT that the King and Queen of Spain declared the Inquisition. Not a church. Although THE church happened to be a government monopoly over religious freedom. Don't you KNOW that? And who dafuck is calling for "Muslims to be forcefully converted"? Anyone IMPORTANT?

 

[Asclepias]

Nice dodge

Coming from the Queen of Dodge who runs away when asked to back up their (ridiculous) assertions.
View attachment 81917

I simply asked YOU to answer a question that you ran away from. Why should I keep answering your questions when you ignore mine? Doesn't work that way dude. I've backed my assertions with links.

You refused to back up 2 assertions because you couldn't. That's why you ran away.

Ok, I'll indulge you (but I doubt I'll get any answers back from you) - which 2 assertions do you wish backed up?

Crickets.

 

[flacaltenn]

Wrong.

We are not at ‘war’ with Islam – the notion is ignorant, bigoted stupidity.

While it's true we are not presently engaged in a declared war with Islam, how many more terrorist attacks by Islamic fanatics will it take to provoke a motivated coalition of American, European, Scandinavian and possibly Russian military forces to move against the Muslim world in what will amount to the Tenth Crusade?

Rules and the sense of moral order tend to give way to the power of retributive rage. I'm recalling what we did to Japanese Americans in 1941 -- and those people did absolutely nothing.

Individuals commit acts of terror, not religions.

And this sort of ignorance, hate, bigotry, and stupidity plays right into the hands of terrorists.

How would you suggest the Western world respond to a progression of terrorist attacks like 9/11 and the recent Nice massacre? All it will take is a few of those and a President like Donald Trump to push the button. It might not occur as a declared war but the effect will be quite the same.

By going after these terrorist networks in coordination with the international community including Muslim countries, with every resource available - not by declaring a stupid war against an entire religion most of who's followers are being victimized by those same terrorists.

I don't think creating MORE smoking holes in the Mid East is our job either. It makes PERFECT habitat for terrorists. THOSE people are STUCK with living in oppressed hell holes and shotgun toting leaders. And that is the BEST outcome for all of us. If an Arab govt stabilizes it's own turf, and we THEN want to take some western leaning "dissidents" -- who could be of EXTREME value to us --- I say take a lot of them. They are KNOWN dissidents to the violent Theocratic hell holes that they live in. Right NOW -- I don't trust my govt to make those decisions..

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Terrorism is going to take more than just the Muslim world, to effectively deal with. I think it's more accurate to look at ALL civilized people as victims of these extremists. Any "retributive anti-Muslim purge" would be reminiscent of Hitler's "anti Jewish purge" and it's disturbing that people are in anyway seriously considering purges, concentration camps, internments of innocent civilians.

Unless the ones being victimized are/were those white German-American folk... Then you don't want to talk about it.

*****SMILE*****

 

[koshergrl]

so the constitution doesn't matter, eh?

you going to start another inquisition? miss the old christian religion?

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

that doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. When the state CONDONES a particular religion and rolls it's power into the Church is where BOTH the Inquisition and the Crusades sprang from.. Without State sanction -- what kind of jails and soldiers and henchmen did the CHURCH have?

It's the same deal today with tyrannical Theocratic Arab governments. About 20 who run by Sharia law OR have adopted much of Sharia into their legal code. That's why those daily barbaric executions, amputations and stonings are so widespread. And why the GOVTs in that region all sponsor proxy armies to go fight EACH other over tribal and religious differences.

It's when the STATE gets involved -- that religions become malignant..

and how does that differ from the demands of the bigots that all muslims be forcefully converted? whose weight do you think goes behind that? the government.

they don't want the state to stay out of government. they do want christianity favored.

the state needs to stay out of religion. and religion needs to stay out of government. just like the 1st amendment contemplated.

so i ask again...what the hell was she talking about?

She was talking about the FACT that the King and Queen of Spain declared the Inquisition. Not a church. Although THE church happened to be a government monopoly over religious freedom. Don't you KNOW that? And who dafuck is calling for "Muslims to be forcefully converted"? Anyone IMPORTANT?

No, the church did not stifle religious freedom. The state.did. The church is just the church. It

Banning the practice of Islam on free soil, banning sharia and bulldozing every Islamic military post/aka mosque, into the earth. Won't happen because we don't have the backbone to protect our citizens. What a shame.

and you're okay with abandoning the constitution?

The Constitution can be amended without being abandoned.

Not when you are talking about fundamental rights.

Does islam guarantee "Freedom of Religion"???????

Did anyone claim it did?

Does Christianity guarantee "freedom of religion"?

No. True freedom only happens when you remove religion from the government equation.

What utter horseshit. True freedom exists only when the state is shackled and not.allowed to interfere with individual and religious freedom.

 

[flacaltenn]

Those stats are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. That's why. 2nd gen goes back to what? the 80s? or 70s?
They were BROUGHT IN for labor. Now given the socialist stupidity of the French were nobody really works a real 40 hour job and if they do, it's mostly at the employee's pace -- then it's STILL a monumental miscalc of how many foreign workers that France could absorb. --- IF it's economic.

Don't know -- but I intend to find out. Because HOWEVER that number came about -- the USA should NEVER make the mistakes leading up to that.

The US is completely different. The problem with bringing in guest workers is there is no prospect of citizenship, and a separation.

Why is that "a problem"? They are Guest workers. Not Americans to be. For the most part they send money HOME to their families. It's a deal THEY created and wanted.

I think the guest workers situation is different here then in europe.

Most of Euro Muslim population are permanent residents. Raising families. NOT "guest workers" like Mexicans are here. (If they were properly documented and classified). Everything I've read says that assimilation is getting increasingly difficult as they tend to live together in isolated enclaves or public housing.

In the meantime here -- 2nd or 3rd gen Mexicans (of illegal parents) are NOT GONNA BE mowing your yard or emptying your bed pan. THEY are gonna be American doctors, lawyers, scientists, politicians.

So what do you suppose is the difference between assimilaiton of immigrants in America and immigrants in Europe? Why, when we get people from the same cultures - does it work so well HERE and in CANADA but not there?

Why the U.S. Is So Good at Turning Immigrants Into Americans

America’s Muslims differ from Europe’s in both quantity and origin. The census does not ask about faith, but estimates put the number of Muslims in the country at around 1% of the population, compared with 4.5% in Britain and 5% in Germany. Moreover, American Islam is not dominated by a single sect or ethnicity. When the Pew Research Centre last tried to count, in 2011, it found Muslims from 77 countries in America. Most western European countries, by contrast, have one or two dominant groups—Algerians in France, Moroccans and Turks in Holland. This matters because the jumble of groups in America makes it harder for Muslim immigrants and their descendants to lead a life apart. Different traditions get squashed together. When building mosques, says Chris McCoy, a Kentucky native who is a prolific architect of Islamic buildings, “the question is usually not whether we should have an Indian- or a Saudi-style dome but, can we afford a dome?” Mixing breeds tolerance: Pew found that most American Muslims think that their faith is open to multiple interpretations, making them the Episcopalians of the Islamic world.

America’s Muslims are better off than their European co-religionists. They are almost as likely as other Americans to report a household income of $100,000 or more. The same cannot be said of the Pakistanis who came to work in the now-defunct textile mills of northern England or the Turks who became guest workers in West Germany. Many American Muslims arrived in the 1970s to complete their higher education and ended up staying. Muzammil Siddiqi, chairman of the Fiqh Council of North America, which issues fatwas, or religious opinions, to guide the behaviour of the country’s Muslims, is typical: he was born in India and holds a Harvard PhD in comparative religion.

There is a stark contrast between this group and some of the more recent immigrants from Somalia, who have fewer qualifications and lower wages (as do African-American Muslims, who make up about an eighth of the total). This divide, if anything, makes America’s Muslims look more like the nation as a whole.

On various measures of integration, Muslims score fairly well (see chart). A Pew study from 2011 found that 15% of Muslims who are married or living with someone have a spouse of a different faith. This may sound low, but it is higher than the intermarriage rate for American Jews at a comparable moment in their history, and above that of modern Mormons. According to the Pentagon, there were 3,600 Muslims on active duty in the armed forces in January 2012, the most recent date for which numbers are available. This reflects a plan to recruit Muslims to fight in Islamic countries where an ability to speak Arabic or Pashto is helpful.​

You work way too hard. None of that was required. It's a GIVEN that the Euros have fucked up big-time. We have not. (in general or at least not until about 10 years ago). I attribute the difference to RATES of immigration coupled with being moronically oblivious to the challenges of assimilating people that come from countries where psychotic is a description of their view of law and justice. Where freedom and tolerance have ZERO meaning.

In general here -- you are asserting there is NO risk from Islam. But Muslims live under Theocracies where Islam becomes a malignant force. So --- you have attempted various defenses for outrages and bloody corpses that people are seeing EVERY WEEK on their screens.

1) The "it's not a large # of American dead" defense -- where you use numbers that EXCLUDE Americans killed abroad. Or the Thousands of American military, contractors, diplomats killed by terrorists in our foolish efforts to enforce peace on lands we tortured. Or that French or Kenyans or Belgium or English lives don't seem to matter to you in the big picture.

2) The "most Islamic terrorists and flagpole assaulters are just crazy" defense. And your corrolary that this is so because of "lack of access" to psychiatric services. When it's been pointed out to you that the CULTURE of these immigrants SHUNS any form or "western psychiatry" in the first place. Or that their old culture is actually a weaponized form of psychotic or sociopathic hate.

3) And you've used the "everybody does it" excuse which leads to anecdotes about crazy Uganda legislators who hate gays and a couple evangelists that inspired them or the random Christian soldier that arises out of nowhere to shoot up a couple abortion clinics.

What I really want to focus is motivation and INSPIRATION that ties all this "Muslim" violence in the Western world. They are ALL sympathetic to the "old country ways". They have been INSPIRED by a basketful of of certifiably NUTS -- religious/political movements in the Arab world.

Now when teens in America shoot up a High School -- we say that they were INSPIRED by other sick kids or by video games or by a failed psych system that medicates people and doesn't know how to monitor the results. All valid concepts to explore.

Or when a single racist shoots up a peaceful Black Church in Alabama, a lot of decided that the Stars and Bars INSPIRED that act. Even tho the perp probably knows jack shit about the Civil War. BUT -- another concept to explore.

OR when an isolated dumbfuck blows up a Federal Building -- we argue about whether Right Wing Hate talk media was the INSPIRATION..


SO -- why is so hard for you to inspect the INSPIRATION that links all this terrorist destruction leaking out of the piss holes in Mid East? That's really my question for you. Those Muslims who make up 70% of Frances inmates are LARGELY THERE -- because of crimes that pattern CULTURE and old country ways. It's that LINK BACK to the cultures that they came from which is the key to understanding the daily bloodshed spreading around the world.

To answer my question -- there is NO requirement to abandon your defense of the Islamic religion. NO requirement to fight for continuation of American values or freedom. Just an explanation of WHY you refuse to recognize the common motivation and inspiration for all these atrocities.

 

[flacaltenn]

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

that doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. When the state CONDONES a particular religion and rolls it's power into the Church is where BOTH the Inquisition and the Crusades sprang from.. Without State sanction -- what kind of jails and soldiers and henchmen did the CHURCH have?

It's the same deal today with tyrannical Theocratic Arab governments. About 20 who run by Sharia law OR have adopted much of Sharia into their legal code. That's why those daily barbaric executions, amputations and stonings are so widespread. And why the GOVTs in that region all sponsor proxy armies to go fight EACH other over tribal and religious differences.

It's when the STATE gets involved -- that religions become malignant..

and how does that differ from the demands of the bigots that all muslims be forcefully converted? whose weight do you think goes behind that? the government.

they don't want the state to stay out of government. they do want christianity favored.

the state needs to stay out of religion. and religion needs to stay out of government. just like the 1st amendment contemplated.

so i ask again...what the hell was she talking about?

She was talking about the FACT that the King and Queen of Spain declared the Inquisition. Not a church. Although THE church happened to be a government monopoly over religious freedom. Don't you KNOW that? And who dafuck is calling for "Muslims to be forcefully converted"? Anyone IMPORTANT?

No, the church did not stifle religious freedom. The state.did. The church is just the church. It

and you're okay with abandoning the constitution?

The Constitution can be amended without being abandoned.

Not when you are talking about fundamental rights.

Does islam guarantee "Freedom of Religion"???????

Did anyone claim it did?

Does Christianity guarantee "freedom of religion"?

No. True freedom only happens when you remove religion from the government equation.

What utter horseshit. True freedom exists only when the state is shackled and not.allowed to interfere with individual and religious freedom.

Oh hell no. The King and Queen REQUIRED obedience to the Church. Suspended religious freedom. And INITIATED the prosecutions of those that challenged the RELIGIOUS authority of the crown..

 

[ogibillm]

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

that doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. When the state CONDONES a particular religion and rolls it's power into the Church is where BOTH the Inquisition and the Crusades sprang from.. Without State sanction -- what kind of jails and soldiers and henchmen did the CHURCH have?

It's the same deal today with tyrannical Theocratic Arab governments. About 20 who run by Sharia law OR have adopted much of Sharia into their legal code. That's why those daily barbaric executions, amputations and stonings are so widespread. And why the GOVTs in that region all sponsor proxy armies to go fight EACH other over tribal and religious differences.

It's when the STATE gets involved -- that religions become malignant..

and how does that differ from the demands of the bigots that all muslims be forcefully converted? whose weight do you think goes behind that? the government.

they don't want the state to stay out of government. they do want christianity favored.

the state needs to stay out of religion. and religion needs to stay out of government. just like the 1st amendment contemplated.

so i ask again...what the hell was she talking about?

She was talking about the FACT that the King and Queen of Spain declared the Inquisition. Not a church. Although THE church happened to be a government monopoly over religious freedom. Don't you KNOW that? And who dafuck is calling for "Muslims to be forcefully converted"? Anyone IMPORTANT?

No, the church did not stifle religious freedom. The state.did. The church is just the church. It

and you're okay with abandoning the constitution?

The Constitution can be amended without being abandoned.

Not when you are talking about fundamental rights.

Does islam guarantee "Freedom of Religion"???????

Did anyone claim it did?

Does Christianity guarantee "freedom of religion"?

No. True freedom only happens when you remove religion from the government equation.

What utter horseshit. True freedom exists only when the state is shackled and not.allowed to interfere with individual and religious freedom.

so then you clearly do not agree with any sort of declared "war on islam" right?

 

[flacaltenn]

Not declaration of war, but prohibition of Islam in western countries!
All mosques shall be closed, all Muslims shall became a choice:

Conversation to Christianity or Ticket to the country of origin.

so the constitution doesn't matter, eh?

you going to start another inquisition? miss the old christian religion?

The inquisition was a STATE endeavor.

that doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. When the state CONDONES a particular religion and rolls it's power into the Church is where BOTH the Inquisition and the Crusades sprang from.. Without State sanction -- what kind of jails and soldiers and henchmen did the CHURCH have?

It's the same deal today with tyrannical Theocratic Arab governments. About 20 who run by Sharia law OR have adopted much of Sharia into their legal code. That's why those daily barbaric executions, amputations and stonings are so widespread. And why the GOVTs in that region all sponsor proxy armies to go fight EACH other over tribal and religious differences.

It's when the STATE gets involved -- that religions become malignant..

Once upon a time state and religion were the same. That's the problem.

But it's interesting how you word it - once the state gets involved.

I see it more once religion amasses POLITICAL or STATE power, it becomes malignant. The state is a neutral entity that can be used by the majority to force it's desires on others. People do this...not the state. The direction comes from religion - church or mosque - what ever - which harness' the power of the state.

Monarchies were NOT "neutral entities". In fact the power of the crown most OFTEN came from God.

Our founders recognized that as a primary problem. And gave us the antidote.

 

[Coyote]

Wrong.

We are not at ‘war’ with Islam – the notion is ignorant, bigoted stupidity.

While it's true we are not presently engaged in a declared war with Islam, how many more terrorist attacks by Islamic fanatics will it take to provoke a motivated coalition of American, European, Scandinavian and possibly Russian military forces to move against the Muslim world in what will amount to the Tenth Crusade?

Rules and the sense of moral order tend to give way to the power of retributive rage. I'm recalling what we did to Japanese Americans in 1941 -- and those people did absolutely nothing.

Individuals commit acts of terror, not religions.

And this sort of ignorance, hate, bigotry, and stupidity plays right into the hands of terrorists.

How would you suggest the Western world respond to a progression of terrorist attacks like 9/11 and the recent Nice massacre? All it will take is a few of those and a President like Donald Trump to push the button. It might not occur as a declared war but the effect will be quite the same.

By going after these terrorist networks in coordination with the international community including Muslim countries, with every resource available - not by declaring a stupid war against an entire religion most of who's followers are being victimized by those same terrorists.

I don't think creating MORE smoking holes in the Mid East is our job either. It makes PERFECT habitat for terrorists. THOSE people are STUCK with living in oppressed hell holes and shotgun toting leaders. And that is the BEST outcome for all of us. If an Arab govt stabilizes it's own turf, and we THEN want to take some western leaning "dissidents" -- who could be of EXTREME value to us --- I say take a lot of them. They are KNOWN dissidents to the violent Theocratic hell holes that they live in. Right NOW -- I don't trust my govt to make those decisions..

I agree, and that is why I think labeling it a "war against....xyz" is not the right strategy. We can't be uninvolved but involvement has got to be cooperative with the stable states that remain and it has to include financial suffication, propoganda, education, economic reforms, political reforms....hell.