Time to Bail?

[Shogun]

what if we pulled back into a fortified brand new city protected similar to an old city-state like sparta? Then, those iraqis who want a future can come and learn skills that they can take to build their own infrastructures without fearing retribution. Maybe we could defend a single point better than trying to swallow the whole hamburger. Of course, it would ahve to be CLEAR that this new location is a western gift to a democratic iraq with no strings attached. Create envoys who bus in those who choose to hop on board the western express, run em through security to protect the internal city and then show em what we have to offer...


thus, we could defend one influential location rather than sway their minds with the promise of collateral damage...


feel free to expand upon or shit upon this idea, oh great citizens of usmessageboard land.

 

[hjmick]

what if we pulled back into a fortified brand new city protected similar to an old city-state like sparta? Then, those iraqis who want a future can come and learn skills that they can take to build their own infrastructures without fearing retribution. Maybe we could defend a single point better than trying to swallow the whole hamburger. Of course, it would ahve to be CLEAR that this new location is a western gift to a democratic iraq with no strings attached. Create envoys who bus in those who choose to hop on board the western express, run em through security to protect the internal city and then show em what we have to offer...


thus, we could defend one influential location rather than sway their minds with the promise of collateral damage...


feel free to expand upon or shit upon this idea, oh great citizens of usmessageboard land.

I am not opposed to such an idea. I just can't help but think that some politicians will find some fault and controversy with the plan.

 

[uscitizen]

Is the oil all in one place ?

 

[hjmick]

Is the oil all in one place ?

 

[DeadCanDance]

How long before the US backs out?

How long before Iraq is officially declared a full blown civil war?, and that the US should not be involved?

Should we let Iran arm whomever the Shiite, and The US arm the Sunni's?

While we protect the Oil?

The violence is not subsiding, our latest plan is arming our enemies, (as long as they promise not to turn around and shoot us).

Erecting walls hasn't changed anything,

The surge has yet to show (Positive) effect.

Patience yeilds death.

Is september a good deadline for the NeoCons to agree this is a waste of life and money?

"Is september a good deadline for the NeoCons to agree this is a waste of life and money?"


Surely you jest. You know full well, that for the past four years, NeoCons and Bush-fans have continually moved the goal posts. They're not going to give up on it in September. They're going to want more surges, more troops and more money. They'll never admit invading iraq was a mistake. Just look at the GOP presidential nominees at there debate. Except for ron paul, every single GOP candidate said that even knowing what we know now, they would STILL have invaded iraq.
"

 

[DeadCanDance]

Canada, Mexico, and Nigeria supply us with the majority of our oil imports.

Yeah, but the price of canadian, nigerian, or mexican oil is largely controlled by governments and events in the persian gulf. It's a world oil market. Almost all the oil is controlled by persian gulf countries. They and their governments have the power to control world oil prices: including mexican and canadian oil prices.

 

[Bern80]

Yeah, but the price of canadian, nigerian, or mexican oil is largely controlled by governments and events in the persian gulf. It's a world oil market. Almost all the oil is controlled by persian gulf countries. They and their governments have the power to control world oil prices: including mexican and canadian oil prices.

I would say that is largely true. Mainly because while the middle east is not our main source of oil it is the main source for much fo the rest of the world.

As a conservative i can't fool myself into thinking that oil isn't a factor in why we're there. Like it or not we need a secure middle east to protect ourselves against soreing oil prices. The administration unfortunately did not take the long view of the situation. that being that much of the worlds oil supply happens to lie in areas occupied by many extremist, intolerant groups of people.

 

[Gunny]

How long before the US backs out?

How long before Iraq is officially declared a full blown civil war?, and that the US should not be involved?

Should we let Iran arm whomever the Shiite, and The US arm the Sunni's?

While we protect the Oil?

The violence is not subsiding, our latest plan is arming our enemies, (as long as they promise not to turn around and shoot us).

Erecting walls hasn't changed anything,

The surge has yet to show (Positive) effect.

Patience yeilds death.

Is september a good deadline for the NeoCons to agree this is a waste of life and money?

Time to bail my ass. WTF has happened to the people in this country? We used to take pride in the fact that we could surmount any odds. Now we don't even want to try. The road gets rocky and it's "time to bail.'

What we need to do is rewrite the rules and let our military do its job without a bunch of politicians and leftwingnut media goops hamstringing their efforts.

I guarantee you, a purely military strategy could easily stop this shit in a heartbeat.

Quitters annoy me.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

right , locking down the supply is the current game.
And if we just had Iran and Afganistan as well......

We do NOT get much oil from IRAQ. What part of that do you NOT understand?

 

[Superlative]

Time to bail my ass. WTF has happened to the people in this country? We used to take pride in the fact that we could surmount any odds. Now we don't even want to try. The road gets rocky and it's "time to bail.'

What we need to do is rewrite the rules and let our military do its job without a bunch of politicians and leftwingnut media goops hamstringing their efforts.

I guarantee you, a purely military strategy could easily stop this shit in a heartbeat.

Quitters annoy me.

Are you fucking kidding me???

A little rocky?


This is a mess and you know it.

You think letting the military go in and kill people is the answer?

You can guarantee that only insurgents will be killed and not civilians?

You saw what heppend in Fallujah.

Heres a plan.


Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Opening Remarks Before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Washington, DC
October 19, 2005

Condoleeze Rice: "In short, with the Iraqi Government, our political-military strategy has to be to clear, hold, and build: to clear areas from insurgent control, to hold them securely, and to build durable, national Iraqi institutions."

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2005/55303.htm


Why hasnt this been the plan for the past 2 and a half years???

OH maybe this is why.


News Briefing with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Gen. Peter Pace
November 29, 2005

SEC. RUMSFELD: "....Anyone who takes those three words and thinks it means the United States should clear and the United States should hold and the United States should build doesn't understand the situation. It is the Iraqis' country. They've got 28 million people there. They are clearing, they are holding, they are building. They're going to be the ones doing the reconstruction in that country"

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=1492

Its really weird that with car bombs going off every day that there really isnt anything getting done by the Iraqi people.


You are in denial if you think for a second that the situation is getting better, and that all we need to do is wait.

We need to put another 150,000 troops there to make any difference.

I dont think the US should leave.


But nothing is getting accomplished. Except death.

Now our best plan is to arm the Sunnis?


Thats a strategy???

Arming the very people who escalated the violence in response to the "Democratic" purple finger election??

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article340228.ece
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_26-1-2005_pg4_2
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0927-20.htm

Gimme a break.

This occupation is a mess.

You want to risk more military lives to kill more Insurgents, and Civilians who dont want the US there.


This will be declared a civil war and the US will pull away from it.

 

[mattskramer]

Time to bail my ass. WTF has happened to the people in this country? We used to take pride in the fact that we could surmount any odds. Now we don't even want to try. The road gets rocky and it's "time to bail.'

What we need to do is rewrite the rules and let our military do its job without a bunch of politicians and leftwingnut media goops hamstringing their efforts.

I guarantee you, a purely military strategy could easily stop this shit in a heartbeat.

Quitters annoy me.

Is this what you are looking for. There must be some safeguards in my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai

 

[DeadCanDance]

Time to bail my ass. WTF has happened to the people in this country? We used to take pride in the fact that we could surmount any odds. Now we don't even want to try. The road gets rocky and it's "time to bail.'

What we need to do is rewrite the rules and let our military do its job without a bunch of politicians and leftwingnut media goops hamstringing their efforts.

I guarantee you, a purely military strategy could easily stop this shit in a heartbeat.

Quitters annoy me.

This great country does not continue to fight wars simply for ego, or stubborness. This country and its young warriors are not intended to die, simply to prove that "someday, the NeoCons will be proven right".

It's a civil war in Iraq. That's not our war. Who's side are we supposed to fight on? And why? Why should americans die in an iraqi civil war?

Certainly, we can station residual forces in the area to strike al qaeda strongholds. But, fighting in a civil war, so the NeoCons egos don't get bruised - so that their feelings aren't hurt for being wrong about launching this war? That's not worth vast amounts of american blood and treasure.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

Yeah, but the price of canadian, nigerian, or mexican oil is largely controlled by governments and events in the persian gulf. It's a world oil market. Almost all the oil is controlled by persian gulf countries. They and their governments have the power to control world oil prices: including mexican and canadian oil prices.

They do? You mean these capitalistic pricks won't share it like us altruistic soshallusts?

Then we should definately take is off the greedy ****** bastards!

No need for any more fabricated casus belli about balsawood bombers dropping WMD on Murka. I'll bet you any money you like I can find a telling Bible justification for taking the oil and exterminating all the sub-human sand-*******, who are clearly in illegal possession of it.

I'll start with where G-d's bosom buddy Abraham left the nigeress Hagar and her obnoxious (to G-d) half-Hebrew bastard Ishmael for dead in the desert.

That will be more than enough for the Jewnighted States to believe it has a G-d-given right to holocaust ALL the camel humping Ay-rabs bastards and carpet-bag ANYTHING thay have!!

 

[Gunny]

Are you fucking kidding me???

A little rocky?


This is a mess and you know it.

You think letting the military go in and kill people is the answer?

You can guarantee that only insurgents will be killed and not civilians?

You saw what heppend in Fallujah.

Heres a plan.


Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Opening Remarks Before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Washington, DC
October 19, 2005

Condoleeze Rice: "In short, with the Iraqi Government, our political-military strategy has to be to clear, hold, and build: to clear areas from insurgent control, to hold them securely, and to build durable, national Iraqi institutions."

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2005/55303.htm


Why hasnt this been the plan for the past 2 and a half years???

OH maybe this is why.


News Briefing with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Gen. Peter Pace
November 29, 2005

SEC. RUMSFELD: "....Anyone who takes those three words and thinks it means the United States should clear and the United States should hold and the United States should build doesn't understand the situation. It is the Iraqis' country. They've got 28 million people there. They are clearing, they are holding, they are building. They're going to be the ones doing the reconstruction in that country"

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=1492

Its really weird that with car bombs going off every day that there really isnt anything getting done by the Iraqi people.


You are in denial if you think for a second that the situation is getting better, and that all we need to do is wait.

We need to put another 150,000 troops there to make any difference.

I dont think the US should leave.


But nothing is getting accomplished. Except death.

Now our best plan is to arm the Sunnis?


Thats a strategy???

Arming the very people who escalated the violence in response to the "Democratic" purple finger election??

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article340228.ece
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_26-1-2005_pg4_2
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0927-20.htm

Gimme a break.

This occupation is a mess.

You want to risk more military lives to kill more Insurgents, and Civilians who dont want the US there.


This will be declared a civil war and the US will pull away from it.

Save the tearjerking appeal to emotion. Wars are about winning. People die and there is nothing touchy-feely about it. You interject that touchy-feely shit and you get the mess we got.

 

[Gunny]

Is this what you are looking for. There must be some safeguards in my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai

GMAFB. Did I say a THING about executing noncombatants? Your attempted comparison is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Gunny]

This great country does not continue to fight wars simply for ego, or stubborness. This country and its young warriors are not intended to die, simply to prove that "someday, the NeoCons will be proven right".

It's a civil war in Iraq. That's not our war. Who's side are we supposed to fight on? And why? Why should americans die in an iraqi civil war?

Certainly, we can station residual forces in the area to strike al qaeda strongholds. But, fighting in a civil war, so the NeoCons egos don't get bruised - so that their feelings aren't hurt for being wrong about launching this war? That's not worth vast amounts of american blood and treasure.

You libs sure can read a lot of what ISN'T said into something. Leaving Iraq will be surrendering Iraq to Iran. It's as simple as that. Strategically, that is a suicidal move, and is the same as Europe appeasing Hitler. We'll have to deal with Iran, but only after we allow Iran to get big enough to cause FAR MORE American servicepersonnel deaths you people can imagine.

It isn't about pride or stubborness. It's about stopping this shit before it gets to a point that we can't handle it.

 

[Gunny]

They do? You mean these capitalistic pricks won't share it like us altruistic soshallusts?

Then we should definately take is off the greedy ****** bastards!

No need for any more fabricated casus belli about balsawood bombers dropping WMD on Murka. I'll bet you any money you like I can find a telling Bible justification for taking the oil and exterminating all the sub-human sand-*******, who are clearly in illegal possession of it.

I'll start with where G-d's bosom buddy Abraham left the nigeress Hagar and her obnoxious (to G-d) half-Hebrew bastard Ishmael for dead in the desert.

That will be more than enough for the Jewnighted States to believe it has a G-d-given right to holocaust ALL the camel humping Ay-rabs bastards and carpet-bag ANYTHING thay have!!

You'd be wrong. You can find the justification in we're going to have to fight them sooner or later. Now while we're there seems like a better idea than later.

 

[Superlative]

Save the tearjerking appeal to emotion. Wars are about winning. People die and there is nothing touchy-feely about it. You interject that touchy-feely shit and you get the mess we got.

Good rebuttle.

Ill tell you in SEVEN words how we got into this mess.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Wolfowitz, Tenet, Feith.

Theres yer touchy-feely bunch right there.

 

[Gunny]

Good rebuttle.

Ill tell you how we got into this mess.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Wolfowitz, Tenet, Feith.

Theres yer touchy-feely bunch right there.

You can't blame just them. Political correctness is as much to blame. Leftwingnut armchair quarterbacks are easily as much to blame. The liberal MSM is as much to blame, if not more.

And I'm not cutting the aforementioned people any slack. It's their attempted appeasement of those I mentioned that has caused this bullshit. We aren't fighting a war. We're playing politics with the military.

You don't like my rebuttal? Sorry I'm not as long-winded as some of the more prominent libs on this board. Dissertations as posts turn readers off.

 

[DeadCanDance]

You libs sure can read a lot of what ISN'T said into something. Leaving Iraq will be surrendering Iraq to Iran. It's as simple as that. Strategically, that is a suicidal move, and is the same as Europe appeasing Hitler. We'll have to deal with Iran, but only after we allow Iran to get big enough to cause FAR MORE American servicepersonnel deaths you people can imagine.

It isn't about pride or stubborness. It's about stopping this shit before it gets to a point that we can't handle it.

Reason number 7,846 for the war in Iraq?


I've heard this excuse from the people who got us into this war: that it's suddenly about Iran now.

The people that got us into this war, have been wrong about virtually everything they ever said or predicted about Iraq. I'm not likely to take their theories or explanations at face value now.

The sunni arab states will never allow Iran to take over iraq. They are blood enemies. They'll go to war to prevent it. And Iran knows it. The civil war will play out, and someday there'll be a diplomatic solution in iraq and by it's neighbors.

200,000 american soldiers will have little to no effect on that outcome.