Time to Bail?

[Superlative]

How long before the US backs out?

How long before Iraq is officially declared a full blown civil war?, and that the US should not be involved?

Should we let Iran arm whomever the Shiite, and The US arm the Sunni's?

While we protect the Oil?

The violence is not subsiding, our latest plan is arming our enemies, (as long as they promise not to turn around and shoot us).

Erecting walls hasn't changed anything,

The surge has yet to show (Positive) effect.

Patience yeilds death.

Is september a good deadline for the NeoCons to agree this is a waste of life and money?

 

[hjmick]

In every battle there comes a time when both sides consider themselves beaten, then he who continues the attack wins. - Ulysses S. Grant

 

[Superlative]

In every battle there comes a time when both sides consider themselves beaten, then he who continues the attack wins. - Ulysses S. Grant

What happens when it ceases to be 'our' battle?

 

[uscitizen]

We are there for control of oil, we will stay if at all possible.
Civil war , democracy, etc are secondary nuisances.

Not that I agree with the principle behind that observation.
Just posting what I see as the real reason for our being in Iraq.
I expect this era to be known in history as the beginning of the oil wars.

 

[hjmick]

We are there for control of oil, we will stay if at all possible.
Civil war , democracy, etc are secondary nuisances.

Not that I agree with the principle behind that observation.
Just posting what I see as the real reason for our being in Iraq.
I expect this era to be known in history as the beginning of the oil wars.

Can you name the three countries that supply the U.S. with the majority of the oil we import? Iraq isn't one of them, never has been and I doubt it ever will be.

 

[mattskramer]

In every battle there comes a time when both sides consider themselves beaten, then he who continues the attack wins. - Ulysses S. Grant

He that fights and runs away, may turn and fight another day; but he that is in battle slain, will never rise to fight again. -
Tacitus

Let the Iraqis fight their own battles now.

 

[Superlative]

Can you name the three countries that supply the U.S. with the majority of the oil we import? Iraq isn't one of them, never has been and I doubt it ever will be.

Sadly I cannot name the top 3, but in december, didnt Hallibutron get the Iraq oil export back up to its previous level of 20+ million barrels a month? - I corrected this, I mistakenly posted, "day" instead of 'month'.

the US gets more than 20 billion barrels a month from 3 other countries?

 

[Annie]

Something to think about:

http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010228

Unifying Iraq
Partition is the path to more war--multiple wars, in fact.

BY DONALD L. HOROWITZ
Tuesday, June 19, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

Many people seem to think that if the Iraq war was a mistake, it follows that we should undo the mistake and withdraw our forces--a questionable syllogism at best. Meanwhile, popular sentiment against the war has been so strong that Congress has been following, rather than leading, public opinion.

It is time for a much more nuanced debate. Whether the war was a mistake doesn't answer the critical questions: What are the likely consequences of continuing it? What are the likely consequences of withdrawal?

In favor of withdrawal, it is said that one consequence of our remaining in Iraq is that we're prevented from finishing the war in Afghanistan. Perhaps, although there are hazards to flooding Afghanistan with foreign troops, as the Soviet Union discovered. While we are vulnerable in Iraq, we are also prevented from taking a much more threatening line against Iran's nuclear program, and while we are tied down there, the credibility of our military power elsewhere in the world is weaker than it should be. But what about the consequences of withdrawal from Iraq?

...

 

[uscitizen]

Sadly I cannot name the top 3, but in december, didnt Hallibutron get the Iraq oil export back up to its previous level of 20+ million barrels a day?

the US gets more than 20 billion barrels a month from 3 other countries?

right , locking down the supply is the current game.
And if we just had Iran and Afganistan as well......

 

[hjmick]

What happens when it ceases to be 'our' battle?

I'm not saying we shouldn't get out, I believe we should.

Unfortunately I'm not sure that doing so any time soon is a good idea. The fact of the matter is, we screwed the pooch in Iraq and it is the responsibility of the U.S. government to somehow find a way to fix it. And even then, we can't fix it 100%, too much tribal/sectarian conflict at the core. You think there was a power vacuum after we toppled Sadam? You think the violence is bad now? What do you suppose is keeping Iran at bay? I'm of the opinion that the Iranians are just waiting for a chance to drop in and grab up what they can as reparations for the atrocities suffered during their war with Iraq.

There is no easy answer. SNAFU best describes where we are now. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

 

[Superlative]

right , locking down the supply is the current game.
And if we just had Iran and Afganistan as well......

The US will never 'have' Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan, its not feasable.

We can control Baghdad, how can we be expected to control other regions?

 

[hjmick]

Sadly I cannot name the top 3, but in december, didnt Hallibutron get the Iraq oil export back up to its previous level of 20+ million barrels a month? - I corrected this, I mistakenly posted, "day" instead of 'month'.

the US gets more than 20 billion barrels a month from 3 other countries?

Canada, Mexico, and Nigeria supply us with the majority of our oil imports.

 

[Superlative]

I'm not saying we shouldn't get out, I believe we should.

Unfortunately I'm not sure that doing so any time soon is a good idea. The fact of the matter is, we screwed the pooch in Iraq and it is the responsibility of the U.S. government to somehow find a way to fix it. And even then, we can't fix it 100%, too much tribal/sectarian conflict at the core. You think there was a power vacuum after we toppled Sadam? You think the violence is bad now? What do you suppose is keeping Iran at bay? I'm of the opinion that the Iranians are just waiting for a chance to drop in and grab up what they can as reparations for the atrocities suffered during their war with Iraq.

There is no easy answer. SNAFU best describes where we are now. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Yes.


Is it a wise plan to secure US interests, and back away in september?

Basically, protect the oil, arm the Sunni's and rebuild in the future.

 

[Care4all]

Can you name the three countries that supply the U.S. with the majority of the oil we import? Iraq isn't one of them, never has been and I doubt it ever will be.

canada, saudi arabia and ??? i dunno? used to be south america...ummm venezuela, but not certain now??

 

[hjmick]

Canada, Mexico, and Nigeria supply us with the majority of our oil imports.

My mistake, Saudi Arabia is third, Nigeria is fifth.


Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

 

[Superlative]

Canada, Mexico, and Nigeria supply us with the majority of our oil imports.

Pip Pip, Cheerio, you are correct.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)


Country Apr-07 Mar-07 YTD 2007 Apr-06 Jan - Apr 2006


CANADA 1,909 1,780 1,846 1,710 1,726

MEXICO 1,460 1,621 1,471 1,601 1,692

SAUDI ARABIA 1,458 1,216 1,358 1,582 1,413

 

[hjmick]

Yes.


Is it a wise plan to secure US interests, and back away in september?

Basically, protect the oil, arm the Sunni's and rebuild in the future.

I am beginning to think that the best approach at this point would be to keep the troops there, pull them back to our bases, using them primarily as support for the Iraqi security forces as needed. Maybe use the troops to help protect those who are working to rebuild the infrastructure. It's definately time we made the Iraqis suck it up and manage their country, make them take responsibility for their own future.

I am not opposed to dividing the country into what would essentially be the equivalent of states, each governing themselves while still having a central government (much like we have), and splitting the oil revenues among them.

For me, the idea of pulling out completely just poses too many unknowns.

Who knows. The whole mess could have been avoided if Schwartzkopf had been allowed to roll into Bagdhad the first time.

 

[hjmick]

Pip Pip, Cheerio, you are correct.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)


Country Apr-07 Mar-07 YTD 2007 Apr-06 Jan - Apr 2006


CANADA 1,909 1,780 1,846 1,710 1,726

MEXICO 1,460 1,621 1,471 1,601 1,692

SAUDI ARABIA 1,458 1,216 1,358 1,582 1,413

I was off on Nigeria, I overheard that on some show yesterday. Obviously whoever said it was wrong. But Nigeria does supply us with more than Iraq.

 

[uscitizen]

The US will never 'have' Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan, its not feasable.

We can control Baghdad, how can we be expected to control other regions?

I fully agree, but some in our government are obviously not thinking clearly on all of this.
I just see the reason, and do not think it is reasonable.

 

[Superlative]

I am beginning to think that the best approach at this point would be to keep the troops there, pull them back to our bases, using them primarily as support for the Iraqi security forces as needed. Maybe use the troops to help protect those who are working to rebuild the infrastructure. It's definately time we made the Iraqis suck it up and manage their country, make them take responsibility for their own future.

I am not opposed to dividing the country into what would essentially be the equivalent of states, each governing themselves while still having a central government (much like we have), and splitting the oil revenues among them.

For me, the idea of pulling out completely just poses too many unknowns.

Who knows. The whole mess could have been avoided if Schwartzkopf had been allowed to roll into Bagdhad the first time.

I concur.

The Iraqi's need to Sack up.