Three years left to limit warming to 1.5C, leading scientists warn

[westwall]

Not D-O events. And not from what the models predict for AMOC switch off. So no. And then recently there was the little ice age.

I have probably posted no less than 5 studies on abrupt glaciation and or abrupt deglaciation and all had physical evidence for changes due to changes in ocean currents.

Yes, even D-O events. The only thing that can alter global temperature in weeks is large scale volcanic activity.

And it can only lower temperatures. Like I said, increasing the Earth's temperature by 8 degrees requires VAST expenditures of energy. Where is that coming from? A current, moving a little heat around ain't capable of that.

Just to put that in perspective, it requires 5 exajoules to raise the global temp by one degree. That's the output of the USA for four million years.

So 40 exajoules to raise it 8 degrees.

Where you getting that energy from?

 

[ding]

Yes, even D-O events. The only thing that can alter global temperature in weeks is large scale volcanic activity.

And it can only lower temperatures. Like I said, increasing the Earth's temperature by 8 degrees requires VAST expenditures of energy. Where is that coming from? A current, moving a little heat around ain't capable of that.

Decades are not centuries. And no, it actually it doesn’t. Glaciation is abrupt. Deglaciation is slow. Been going on every glacial cycle for the last 3 million years. As a geologist you should understand how plate tectonics set the stage for extensive northern hemisphere continental glaciation because of the negative feedback from albedo of the surrounding lands where glaciers can spread.

 

[westwall]

Decades are not centuries. And no, it actually it doesn’t. Glaciation is abrupt. Deglaciation is slow. Been going on every glacial cycle for the last 3 million years. As a geologist you should understand how plate tectonics set the stage for extensive northern hemisphere continental glaciation because of the negative feedback from albedo of the surrounding lands where glaciers can spread.

40 exajoules, where are you getting that energy from?

 

[ding]

Yes, even D-O events. The only thing that can alter global temperature in weeks is large scale volcanic activity.

And it can only lower temperatures. Like I said, increasing the Earth's temperature by 8 degrees requires VAST expenditures of energy. Where is that coming from? A current, moving a little heat around ain't capable of that.

Just to put that in perspective, it requires 5 exajoules to raise the global temp by one degree. That's the output of the USA for four million years.

So 40 exajoules to raise it 8 degrees.

Where you getting that energy from?

Tell you what… since you are such a geologic genius why don’t you post the oxygen isotope curve and walk me through the last 50 million years of climate change with a special emphasis on when glaciation began at each pole and why? I’ll even provide an annotated curve that you can cheat off of.

 

[westwall]

Tell you what… since you are such a geologic genius why don’t you post the oxygen isotope curve and walk me through the last 50 million years of climate change with a special emphasis on when glaciation began at each pole and why?

Why are you acting like an ass? This is a discussion about theories. No one KNOWS the cause of any of it. I have my point of view based on extensive research in the field of geology.

I can quite easily come up with a scenario that lowers the global temperature almost immediately.

I can't do the same for warming the planet. That is extraordinarily difficult. Your talk of currents will certainly have an impact, but realize, they are merely moving energy around.

They aren't CREATING it.

 

[ding]

40 exajoules, where are you getting that energy from?

Maybe look at the oxygen isotope curve for the last 400,000 years to discover you error. Do you need for me to provide that plot for you?

 

[ding]

Why are you acting like an ass?

I was wondering the same thing about you.

 

[westwall]

Maybe look at the oxygen isotope curve for the last 400,000 years to discover you error. Do you need for me to provide that plot for you?

Where is the energy coming from?

 

[ding]

40 exajoules, where are you getting that energy from?

The resumption of heat circulation from the Atlantic to the arctic and changes in albedo from a deglaciating northern hemisphere.

Maybe read about what happens when the AMOC switches its off. Because the reverse happens when it switches back on. This isn’t theory. It’s happened before and is well understood. Educate yourself.

 

[westwall]

I was wondering the same thing about you.

I'm not being hostile. I am merely presenting my point of view. I'm not attacking you at all.

So knock it off.

 

[ding]

Where is the energy coming from?

The ocean. It’s the largest collector of solar radiation. You still don’t accept that the temperature of the planet has more to do with how heat is circulated to the northern hemisphere than how the sun is shining. As a geologist you should understand this.

 

[ding]

I'm not being hostile. I am merely presenting my point of view. I'm not attacking you at all.

So knock it off.

You were the one who started it when you asked why I was acting like an ass. Don’t start none and there won’t be none.

 

[westwall]

The ocean. It’s the largest collector of solar radiation. You still don’t accept that the temperature of the planet has more to do with how heat is circulated to the northern hemisphere than how the sun is shining. As a geologist you should understand this.

The energy is ALREADY there, where is the extra energy coming from to raise the temperature.

 

[westwall]

You were the one who started it when you asked why I was acting like an ass. Don’t start none and there won’t be none.

That's because you ARE acting like an ass. I am not attacking you as a person, but YOU are.

Argue your position, stop with the personal attacks.

 

[ReinyDays]

Yes, surface currents are down to a 100 meters, tops. Variable, and generally quite weak.

Weak compared to what? ... 150,000 meters wide and ... geez ... how many millions of meters in circumference for each of five gyres? ... on average 1 meter/second ... how many trillions of kg-m/s of momentum? ...

Average wind is 7.5 m/s ... mass of 5,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg or ... eh em ... 40 quintillion kg-m/s momentum ... the wind has 40 million times the momentum ... 10 million times the energy transfer ability ...

Obviously ... if the wind causes ocean surface currents, then the wind will be stronger than ocean surface currents ... also note that 29% of the planet isn't covered in ocean ... one more reason to give the atmosphere the majority of heat transfer within the atmosphere ... plus latent heat in the water vapor, something the ocean doesn't have at all ... we don't dissolve water vapor into liquid water ...

 

[ding]

That's because you ARE acting like an ass. I am not attacking you as a person, but YOU are.

Argue your position, stop with the personal attacks.

Can you quote the post you believe I acted like an ass?

Can you quote the post you believe I made a personal attack?

Because I don’t believe you can support your accusations with factual evidence.

 

[ding]

The energy is ALREADY there, where is the extra energy coming from to raise the temperature.

By deglaciating the northern hemisphere which reduces albedo.

The sun’s output does not behave like a yo yo. It’s the climate system which is behaving cyclically.

If the AMOC switched off parts of Northern Europe would be as much as 30 degrees cooler.

There are tons of papers with physical evidence which prove changing ocean currents are responsible for abrupt cooling and abrupt warming. And they all have to do with what is occurring in the arctic because the Arctic is uniquely configured for colder temperatures and the current temperature is only 2C away from extensive northern hemisphere continental glaciation.

 

[westwall]

By deglaciating the northern hemisphere which reduces albedo.

The sun’s output does not behave like a yo yo. It’s the climate system which is behaving cyclically.

If the AMOC switched off parts of Northern Europe would be as much as 30 degrees cooler.

There are tons of papers with physical evidence which prove changing ocean currents are responsible for abrupt cooling and abrupt warming. And they all have to do with what is occurring in the arctic because the Arctic is uniquely configured for colder temperatures and the current temperature is only 2C away from extensive northern hemisphere continental glaciation.

Here is NOAA's assessment.


"Evidence for changes in deepwater formation supports the freshwater forcing hypothesis. Measurements from deep-sea sediments in the North Atlantic indicate reduction of deepwater formation during Heinrich events(McManus et al. 2004). Evidence for freshwater forcing and reduced deepwater formation during D-O events is more ambiguous. The initial trigger for freshwater releases has not yet been identified. One suggestion is that small, gradual changes in solar output could have influenced the timing of abrupt changes. Other ideas call upon natural oscillations of the ice sheets themselves or of ocean processes."

 

[ding]

Here is NOAA's assessment.


"Evidence for changes in deepwater formation supports the freshwater forcing hypothesis. Measurements from deep-sea sediments in the North Atlantic indicate reduction of deepwater formation during Heinrich events(McManus et al. 2004). Evidence for freshwater forcing and reduced deepwater formation during D-O events is more ambiguous. The initial trigger for freshwater releases has not yet been identified. One suggestion is that small, gradual changes in solar output could have influenced the timing of abrupt changes. Other ideas call upon natural oscillations of the ice sheets themselves or of ocean processes."

How so? Walk me through it. Because the freshwater forcing is Thermohaline.

You might want to look at the oxygen isotope data for D-O events to see how ridiculous this argument is.

 

[westwall]

How so? Walk me through it. Because the freshwater forcing is Thermohaline.

You might want to look at the oxygen isotope data for D-O events to see how ridiculous this argument is.

Look at the NOAA website. It's pretty comprehensive. As I have been saying, NO ONE knows what the initial cause of the events was. You are talking about what happened AFTER that initial push.