Thought Experiment

[ding]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

 

[ding]

The universe is declaring the glory of God and the reason we exist is to see it and be stunned by it and glorify God because of it. So Paul says in Romans 1:20–21:

His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God.

 

[ding]

The angels cry in Isaiah 6:3, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”

 

[ding]

All who are called by my name I created for my glory; I formed them, made them. Isaiah 43:7

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

 

[ding]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

It would be illogical for God - who is logic - to create something that was a lie especially when it is not needed and would serve no purpose. That's how I know the universe was not created 10 minutes ago.

How do you know the universe wasn't created 10 minutes ago?

 

[BreezeWood]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

.
then your personal - whats - are. what might those be.
.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

.
what finite mind, good luck with that one ... how about underdeveloped.

 

[fncceo]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

but there is no evidence its billions of yrs old,,

There is, actually. Quite a lot.

It may not be evidence that you're willing to hear... but, it's there.

 

[onefour1]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

Is this an added rule to the first set of rules?

 

[onefour1]

Looking at it from the inside, we would believe that the earth is much older than 10 or 11 minutes ago. However, looking at the it from the outside, one has to wonder why a God, who is all knowing, all powerful, and believed to be all loving would deceive the world into thinking a lie. One would have to conclude that God and all the universe is nothing but a joke.

If God is truly all powerful, he could keep man from ever knowing the truth. If a fellow human would make up a supposition that the earth was only 10 or 11 minutes old, nobody would believe him because the evidence would show otherwise. God would ensure that the lie was believed.

So what do you conclude from this thought experiment?

 

[onefour1]

If it were ever found out that God is a liar, then everyone would loose faith in him. Not sure why any God would do such a thing.

Why would a God indoctrinate all his children into a lie? What does he get out of it?

 

[onefour1]

God wouldn't get any more control, power, or wealth by doing it. What is to gain by establishing a lie? Would God live a lie for all eternity?

 

[SweetSue92]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

Short answer: no

Longer answer: I'm really drawn to things that I'm really bad at. ha. Example: I am HORRID at math. So, this being the case, I love thinking about things like theoretical physics and astronomy because I barely passed algebra. So I have to skip all the stuff physicists actually DO--God love them--and just ponder their conclusions. (I have mad respect for their process though)

And they are:

They don't know. Dark matter--don't know. Dark energy--same. Universe expanding at a hugely rapid rate--they got nothing. How did life actually start--meh.

Oh--and the universe could be a hologram.

So yes. The universe being 10 minutes old is surely an outlier of a scenario. But not THAT much of one. And we would certainly have no way to prove it.

 

[SweetSue92]

If it were ever found out that God is a liar, then everyone would loose faith in him. Not sure why any God would do such a thing.

Why would a God indoctrinate all his children into a lie? What does he get out of it?

What if the "old universe" is a big deception of Satan--part of The Fall?

Not saying it is. But it could be. It certainly has fooled a lot of people, if that were the case. (BTW I'm not a young earth creationist, per se. Not that material to my faith to be honest.)

 

[Crepitus]

all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Disprove what? We have all the evidence that the universe is billions of years old right in front of us.

Do you? Test it, then.

Test what? It's your premise. Your words: "with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, "

Test what? Why would we even be questioning it?

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

It would be illogical for God - who is logic - to create something that was a lie especially when it is not needed and would serve no purpose. That's how I know the universe was not created 10 minutes ago.

How do you know the universe wasn't created 10 minutes ago?

I don't know it wasn't. I don't know it sprang into being billions of years ago, either.

No one can know.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

.
then your personal - whats - are. what might those be.
.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

.
what finite mind, good luck with that one ... how about underdeveloped.

My beliefs are, again, immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

Is this an added rule to the first set of rules?

Nope. It was an aside.

 

[sparky]

Now...how could you disprove this?

Creationism vs. Evolution: 6 Big Battles

The debate between creationists and evolutionists has been going on since Charles Darwin's day. Here's how the debate has evolved.

www.livescience.com

 

[daveman]

Looking at it from the inside, we would believe that the earth is much older than 10 or 11 minutes ago. However, looking at the it from the outside, one has to wonder why a God, who is all knowing, all powerful, and believed to be all loving would deceive the world into thinking a lie. One would have to conclude that God and all the universe is nothing but a joke.

If God is truly all powerful, he could keep man from ever knowing the truth. If a fellow human would make up a supposition that the earth was only 10 or 11 minutes old, nobody would believe him because the evidence would show otherwise. God would ensure that the lie was believed.

So what do you conclude from this thought experiment?

I probably ought to scrap this thread and start over.

I should not have used the word "God", which presupposes the Abrahamic God.

Read it again, substituting the word "creator", and disregard any implication it's the Abrahamic God.