Thought Experiment

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

Trust me, those that say they depend on reason and logic and science really have no use for it

So it seems. They have no idea how to prove any other cosmology than the one they're told is false. Similarly, they have no idea how to prove the cosmology they believe in is true. There are possible explanations that fit the phenomena we observe, but there's no way to test them.

I bought a world atlas at an estate sale once, published in 1902. It started off with a description of the universe, saying it's about a hundred thousand light years across. Of course, that's completely wrong; the observations we've made are explained by a far, far greater size.

But there's no way of testing it.

People who make grand pronouncements about science understand very little of it. They simply take it on faith.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

How would we know if it were true or not? Why would we care if it were true or not?

Post #19

 

[daveman]

Where did god come from? Or who created this god?

Also good questions. Also not apropos to the thread.

So if it makes you feel better, replace God in the OP with "something".

Tax Man disliked this post. Perhaps he's feeling his toes stepped on.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

In your scenario you mention that when God creates the universe it's created "with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in".

By "built-in" you mean in it's entirety? Also did you intentionally use the word "evidence' and does that imply that there is evidence in the universe of it's origins and how long ago that was, or were you speaking figuratively?

 

[Infallible Arbiter]

mortals grovel and question about their existence in vain -
then off to the morgue.

how uninteresting.

 

[ding]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

 

[BreezeWood]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

Now...how could you disprove this?

.
by not believing day dreams are real ...

 

[Grumblenuts]

The real question should be, "What happened between minutes 11 and 10?"

Next, "What happened between minutes 10 and 0?"

Good questions indeed, but not really apropos to this thread.

Point being, this silliness simplifies down to
"God created the universe 10 minutes ago"
"how could you disprove this?"
The rest is lipstick. Now, given:

So if it makes you feel better, replace God in the OP with "something".

You're effectively just saying:
"something created the universe 10 minutes ago"
"how could you disprove this?"

 

[daveman]

In your scenario you mention that when God creates the universe it's created "with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in".

By "built-in" you mean in it's entirety? Also did you intentionally use the word "evidence' and does that imply that there is evidence in the universe of it's origins and how long ago that was, or were you speaking figuratively?

Yes, in its entirety, exactly as we see today.

And yes, I used the word "evidence" intentionally and figuratively, without quotes (although I did consider using quotes). My point in using it that way is that we're constantly bombarded with "this is the age of the universe" news stories, each giving the researchers' "evidence" for their claims.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

Now...how could you disprove this?

.
by not believing day dreams are real ...

"NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof."

 

[daveman]

The real question should be, "What happened between minutes 11 and 10?"

Next, "What happened between minutes 10 and 0?"

Good questions indeed, but not really apropos to this thread.

Point being, this silliness simplifies down to
"God created the universe 10 minutes ago"
"how could you disprove this?"
The rest is lipstick. Now, given:

So if it makes you feel better, replace God in the OP with "something".

You're effectively just saying:
"something created the universe 10 minutes ago"
"how could you disprove this?"

You wanna give it a shot, or are you just going to keep grumbling?

No one has even attempted.

 

[ding]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logic... among other things.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I just greatly simplified it for you. You're welcome.

"something created the universe 10 minutes ago"
"how could you disprove this?"

Check the surveillance videos and.. do try not to shoot your out.

 

[Crepitus]

all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Disprove what? We have all the evidence that the universe is billions of years old right in front of us.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

 

[daveman]

I just greatly simplified it for you. You're welcome.

"something created the universe 10 minutes ago"
"how could you disprove this?"

Check the surveillance videos and.. do try not to shoot your out.

Well, it's not like you were ever going to approach this seriously.

 

[daveman]

all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Disprove what? We have all the evidence that the universe is billions of years old right in front of us.

Do you? Test it, then.

 

[ding]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?