This Will Drive the Deep State Nuts: Trump Preparing for a Major House-Cleaning

[pknopp]

What does that mean?

The civil service is designed to implement the policies of the incumbent president, naturally verified and funded by Congress.

What we have now are civil servants who think their opinions and views outweigh those of the President, mostly because they don't like him.

Such as?

All the leaks about what the President is doing with regards to the various agencies, resisting implementing the policies of the President.

State Department bureaucrat caught plotting ‘deep state’ resistance: Project Veritas

A single bureaucrat no one ever heard of? To be honest, Trump should thank some of his underlings for not doing what he demands. It's kept him in office and out of scandal since he's been known to order them to do things that aren't particularly legal. Just think if they went through with Trump's demand to fire Mueller.

So unelected bureaucrats should have the ability to override the elected person placed in the office by the people?

Fuck no.

If what they are being told to do is unconstitutional, then yes.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Trump's paranoia is matching that of Kim in Korea. I wonder when he might start executing family members because he thinks they aren't loyal enough, like Kim did.

Hillary did it. You didn't have a problem then

 

[bodecea]

Trump has purged the Intelligence community and the State Department

America is weaker for it

If the personnel in question would stop thinking they can DICTATE policy instead of just IMPLEMENTING it, there wouldn't be a problem.

What does that mean?

The civil service is designed to implement the policies of the incumbent president, naturally verified and funded by Congress.

What we have now are civil servants who think their opinions and views outweigh those of the President, mostly because they don't like him.

Civil Servants swear to uphold the Constitution not to serve the President

Probably one of the main reasons trumpanzees are so against them.

 

[The Purge]

They are going to hang them first....after all TRUMP is a dictator....hell, the Bern would do the same thing!

 

[rightwinger]

Civil Servants swear to uphold the Constitution not to serve the President

Then they can resign if they think what the President is doing is unconstitutional, and report him.

They work for the Executive Branch, and all policy in that Branch flows from the President.

I spent 33 years as a Civil Servant. The Civil Service laws laws were made to protect you from political influence or retribution.

Policy flows from the President, but there are also laws enacted by Congress. When in conflict, you are required to follow the law.

They were implemented with the assumption that the civil servants were at a level where they do not decide on policy, only implement it. What has happened is political level jobs have been transferred over to civil service jobs, and this is clearly an abuse of the civil service system.

When in conflict, they should resign. If they can't do the job, then they should get out.

Civil Servants pledge to follow the law. They do not have to resign if they feel they are being asked to violate the law. That is why each agency has an Inspector General.
Trump is not firing people for not following his policy. He is firing them for reporting violations of public law.

They are not being asked to violate the law, they are often being asked to implement policy they don't like. Then they pretend that it is against the law to justify their refusal to do their fucking jobs.

That is up to the independent inspectors to determine. Trump is exploiting Civil Service law and bullying workers into being afraid to report on him.

He is firing intelligence officials who do not agree with his conspiracy theories
He threatens weather service employees who rely on scientific weather predictions and contradict his personal weather predictions
He threatens scientists who report there is global warming
He fires State Department employees for following existing international laws

 

[OldLady]

Then they can resign if they think what the President is doing is unconstitutional, and report him.

They work for the Executive Branch, and all policy in that Branch flows from the President.

I spent 33 years as a Civil Servant. The Civil Service laws laws were made to protect you from political influence or retribution.

Policy flows from the President, but there are also laws enacted by Congress. When in conflict, you are required to follow the law.

They were implemented with the assumption that the civil servants were at a level where they do not decide on policy, only implement it. What has happened is political level jobs have been transferred over to civil service jobs, and this is clearly an abuse of the civil service system.

When in conflict, they should resign. If they can't do the job, then they should get out.

Civil Servants pledge to follow the law. They do not have to resign if they feel they are being asked to violate the law. That is why each agency has an Inspector General.
Trump is not firing people for not following his policy. He is firing them for reporting violations of public law.

They are not being asked to violate the law, they are often being asked to implement policy they don't like. Then they pretend that it is against the law to justify their refusal to do their fucking jobs.

That is up to the independent inspectors to determine. Trump is exploiting Civil Service law and bullying workers into being afraid to report on him.

He is firing intelligence officials who do not agree with his conspiracy theories
He threatens weather service employees who rely on scientific weather predictions and contradict his personal weather predictions
He threatens scientists who report there is global warming
He fires State Department employees for following existing international laws

How do you know all that?

 

[BULLDOG]

Trump's paranoia is matching that of Kim in Korea. I wonder when he might start executing family members because he thinks they aren't loyal enough, like Kim did.

Hillary did it. You didn't have a problem then

Only in your diseased little conspiracy theory filled mind.

 

[colfax_m]

Then they can resign if they think what the President is doing is unconstitutional, and report him.

They work for the Executive Branch, and all policy in that Branch flows from the President.

I spent 33 years as a Civil Servant. The Civil Service laws laws were made to protect you from political influence or retribution.

Policy flows from the President, but there are also laws enacted by Congress. When in conflict, you are required to follow the law.

They were implemented with the assumption that the civil servants were at a level where they do not decide on policy, only implement it. What has happened is political level jobs have been transferred over to civil service jobs, and this is clearly an abuse of the civil service system.

When in conflict, they should resign. If they can't do the job, then they should get out.

Civil Servants pledge to follow the law. They do not have to resign if they feel they are being asked to violate the law. That is why each agency has an Inspector General.
Trump is not firing people for not following his policy. He is firing them for reporting violations of public law.

They are not being asked to violate the law, they are often being asked to implement policy they don't like. Then they pretend that it is against the law to justify their refusal to do their fucking jobs.

That is up to the independent inspectors to determine. Trump is exploiting Civil Service law and bullying workers into being afraid to report on him.

He is firing intelligence officials who do not agree with his conspiracy theories
He threatens weather service employees who rely on scientific weather predictions and contradict his personal weather predictions
He threatens scientists who report there is global warming
He fires State Department employees for following existing international laws

Retaliation at State Dept is particularly bad.

State Department watchdog details political retaliation against 'disloyal' staffers

 

[martybegan]

So unelected bureaucrats should have the ability to override the elected person placed in the office by the people?

Fuck no.

No, they shouldn't override the president. They should talk to Congress when the president is giving illegal or otherwise corrupt orders, although we know how Trump supporters feel about that.

What you claim are "illegal or corrupt" orders are pretty much just ones progressive asshats such as yourself don't like.

Or, sometimes they’re literally illegal.

GAO finds Trump administration broke law by withholding Ukraine aid

From the article:

The OMB, however, pushed back against the GAO opinion, arguing that the White House office used the “apportionment authority to ensure taxpayer dollars are properly spent consistent with the President's priorities and with the law."

Acting OMB Director Russ Vought tweeted that the GAO report "comes from the same people who said we couldn’t keep National Parks open during the shutdown."

The GAO's opinion is just that, an opinion, not legally binding or conclusive in any way.

Try again.

So how is anyone in government supposed to know if they’re being asked to do something illegal?

Illegal things should be pretty obvious. Again, if they can't figure that out, they should resign.

 

[martybegan]

The civil service is designed to implement the policies of the incumbent president, naturally verified and funded by Congress.

What we have now are civil servants who think their opinions and views outweigh those of the President, mostly because they don't like him.

Such as?

All the leaks about what the President is doing with regards to the various agencies, resisting implementing the policies of the President.

State Department bureaucrat caught plotting ‘deep state’ resistance: Project Veritas

A single bureaucrat no one ever heard of? To be honest, Trump should thank some of his underlings for not doing what he demands. It's kept him in office and out of scandal since he's been known to order them to do things that aren't particularly legal. Just think if they went through with Trump's demand to fire Mueller.

So unelected bureaucrats should have the ability to override the elected person placed in the office by the people?

Fuck no.

If what they are being told to do is unconstitutional, then yes.

If they think they are being asked to do unconstitutional things they need to resign and report.

 

[martybegan]

Then they can resign if they think what the President is doing is unconstitutional, and report him.

They work for the Executive Branch, and all policy in that Branch flows from the President.

I spent 33 years as a Civil Servant. The Civil Service laws laws were made to protect you from political influence or retribution.

Policy flows from the President, but there are also laws enacted by Congress. When in conflict, you are required to follow the law.

They were implemented with the assumption that the civil servants were at a level where they do not decide on policy, only implement it. What has happened is political level jobs have been transferred over to civil service jobs, and this is clearly an abuse of the civil service system.

When in conflict, they should resign. If they can't do the job, then they should get out.

Civil Servants pledge to follow the law. They do not have to resign if they feel they are being asked to violate the law. That is why each agency has an Inspector General.
Trump is not firing people for not following his policy. He is firing them for reporting violations of public law.

They are not being asked to violate the law, they are often being asked to implement policy they don't like. Then they pretend that it is against the law to justify their refusal to do their fucking jobs.

That is up to the independent inspectors to determine. Trump is exploiting Civil Service law and bullying workers into being afraid to report on him.

He is firing intelligence officials who do not agree with his conspiracy theories
He threatens weather service employees who rely on scientific weather predictions and contradict his personal weather predictions
He threatens scientists who report there is global warming
He fires State Department employees for following existing international laws

He sets the policy, not unelected wonks. If they don't like it they can resign. if they can find actual unconstitutional actions they can report it.

 

[martybegan]

I spent 33 years as a Civil Servant. The Civil Service laws laws were made to protect you from political influence or retribution.

Policy flows from the President, but there are also laws enacted by Congress. When in conflict, you are required to follow the law.

They were implemented with the assumption that the civil servants were at a level where they do not decide on policy, only implement it. What has happened is political level jobs have been transferred over to civil service jobs, and this is clearly an abuse of the civil service system.

When in conflict, they should resign. If they can't do the job, then they should get out.

Civil Servants pledge to follow the law. They do not have to resign if they feel they are being asked to violate the law. That is why each agency has an Inspector General.
Trump is not firing people for not following his policy. He is firing them for reporting violations of public law.

They are not being asked to violate the law, they are often being asked to implement policy they don't like. Then they pretend that it is against the law to justify their refusal to do their fucking jobs.

That is up to the independent inspectors to determine. Trump is exploiting Civil Service law and bullying workers into being afraid to report on him.

He is firing intelligence officials who do not agree with his conspiracy theories
He threatens weather service employees who rely on scientific weather predictions and contradict his personal weather predictions
He threatens scientists who report there is global warming
He fires State Department employees for following existing international laws

How do you know all that?

He doesn't. Rightwonker is equating "things i don't like" with illegal or unconstitutional things.

 

[martybegan]

I spent 33 years as a Civil Servant. The Civil Service laws laws were made to protect you from political influence or retribution.

Policy flows from the President, but there are also laws enacted by Congress. When in conflict, you are required to follow the law.

They were implemented with the assumption that the civil servants were at a level where they do not decide on policy, only implement it. What has happened is political level jobs have been transferred over to civil service jobs, and this is clearly an abuse of the civil service system.

When in conflict, they should resign. If they can't do the job, then they should get out.

Civil Servants pledge to follow the law. They do not have to resign if they feel they are being asked to violate the law. That is why each agency has an Inspector General.
Trump is not firing people for not following his policy. He is firing them for reporting violations of public law.

They are not being asked to violate the law, they are often being asked to implement policy they don't like. Then they pretend that it is against the law to justify their refusal to do their fucking jobs.

That is up to the independent inspectors to determine. Trump is exploiting Civil Service law and bullying workers into being afraid to report on him.

He is firing intelligence officials who do not agree with his conspiracy theories
He threatens weather service employees who rely on scientific weather predictions and contradict his personal weather predictions
He threatens scientists who report there is global warming
He fires State Department employees for following existing international laws

Retaliation at State Dept is particularly bad.

State Department watchdog details political retaliation against 'disloyal' staffers

If they just do their fucking jobs as directed by the ELECTED officeholder their job relies on there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[DrLove]

Know what's funny? Most of the supposedly "disloyal Deep State never-Trumpers" that Dotard is supposedly cleaning house on are not "Obama holdovers". They were appointed by HIM.

PS: Grennell is an incompetent know-nothing POS.

 

[colfax_m]

They were implemented with the assumption that the civil servants were at a level where they do not decide on policy, only implement it. What has happened is political level jobs have been transferred over to civil service jobs, and this is clearly an abuse of the civil service system.

When in conflict, they should resign. If they can't do the job, then they should get out.

Civil Servants pledge to follow the law. They do not have to resign if they feel they are being asked to violate the law. That is why each agency has an Inspector General.
Trump is not firing people for not following his policy. He is firing them for reporting violations of public law.

They are not being asked to violate the law, they are often being asked to implement policy they don't like. Then they pretend that it is against the law to justify their refusal to do their fucking jobs.

That is up to the independent inspectors to determine. Trump is exploiting Civil Service law and bullying workers into being afraid to report on him.

He is firing intelligence officials who do not agree with his conspiracy theories
He threatens weather service employees who rely on scientific weather predictions and contradict his personal weather predictions
He threatens scientists who report there is global warming
He fires State Department employees for following existing international laws

Retaliation at State Dept is particularly bad.

State Department watchdog details political retaliation against 'disloyal' staffers

If they just do their fucking jobs as directed by the ELECTED officeholder their job relies on there wouldn't be a problem.

I don't think you read the article. People are being targeted due to perceptions of their political affiliations rather than how they actually do their jobs.

 

[colfax_m]

No, they shouldn't override the president. They should talk to Congress when the president is giving illegal or otherwise corrupt orders, although we know how Trump supporters feel about that.

What you claim are "illegal or corrupt" orders are pretty much just ones progressive asshats such as yourself don't like.

Or, sometimes they’re literally illegal.

GAO finds Trump administration broke law by withholding Ukraine aid

From the article:

The OMB, however, pushed back against the GAO opinion, arguing that the White House office used the “apportionment authority to ensure taxpayer dollars are properly spent consistent with the President's priorities and with the law."

Acting OMB Director Russ Vought tweeted that the GAO report "comes from the same people who said we couldn’t keep National Parks open during the shutdown."

The GAO's opinion is just that, an opinion, not legally binding or conclusive in any way.

Try again.

So how is anyone in government supposed to know if they’re being asked to do something illegal?

Illegal things should be pretty obvious. Again, if they can't figure that out, they should resign.

As we can see from the GAO report, illegal things are not always obvious. Two different agencies have two different opinions about what the law requires.

 

[martybegan]

Civil Servants pledge to follow the law. They do not have to resign if they feel they are being asked to violate the law. That is why each agency has an Inspector General.
Trump is not firing people for not following his policy. He is firing them for reporting violations of public law.

They are not being asked to violate the law, they are often being asked to implement policy they don't like. Then they pretend that it is against the law to justify their refusal to do their fucking jobs.

That is up to the independent inspectors to determine. Trump is exploiting Civil Service law and bullying workers into being afraid to report on him.

He is firing intelligence officials who do not agree with his conspiracy theories
He threatens weather service employees who rely on scientific weather predictions and contradict his personal weather predictions
He threatens scientists who report there is global warming
He fires State Department employees for following existing international laws

Retaliation at State Dept is particularly bad.

State Department watchdog details political retaliation against 'disloyal' staffers

If they just do their fucking jobs as directed by the ELECTED officeholder their job relies on there wouldn't be a problem.

I don't think you read the article. People are being targeted due to perceptions of their political affiliations rather than how they actually do their jobs.

according to the leakers/reporters.

More than likely they are half assing their jobs as part of the "resistance"

 

[martybegan]

What you claim are "illegal or corrupt" orders are pretty much just ones progressive asshats such as yourself don't like.

Or, sometimes they’re literally illegal.

GAO finds Trump administration broke law by withholding Ukraine aid

From the article:

The OMB, however, pushed back against the GAO opinion, arguing that the White House office used the “apportionment authority to ensure taxpayer dollars are properly spent consistent with the President's priorities and with the law."

Acting OMB Director Russ Vought tweeted that the GAO report "comes from the same people who said we couldn’t keep National Parks open during the shutdown."

The GAO's opinion is just that, an opinion, not legally binding or conclusive in any way.

Try again.

So how is anyone in government supposed to know if they’re being asked to do something illegal?

Illegal things should be pretty obvious. Again, if they can't figure that out, they should resign.

As we can see from the GAO report, illegal things are not always obvious. Two different agencies have two different opinions about what the law requires.

Then until adjudicated it isn't illegal.

 

[colfax_m]

They are not being asked to violate the law, they are often being asked to implement policy they don't like. Then they pretend that it is against the law to justify their refusal to do their fucking jobs.

That is up to the independent inspectors to determine. Trump is exploiting Civil Service law and bullying workers into being afraid to report on him.

He is firing intelligence officials who do not agree with his conspiracy theories
He threatens weather service employees who rely on scientific weather predictions and contradict his personal weather predictions
He threatens scientists who report there is global warming
He fires State Department employees for following existing international laws

Retaliation at State Dept is particularly bad.

State Department watchdog details political retaliation against 'disloyal' staffers

If they just do their fucking jobs as directed by the ELECTED officeholder their job relies on there wouldn't be a problem.

I don't think you read the article. People are being targeted due to perceptions of their political affiliations rather than how they actually do their jobs.

according to the leakers/reporters.

More than likely they are half assing their jobs as part of the "resistance"

No, according to the inspector general.

 

[colfax_m]

Or, sometimes they’re literally illegal.

GAO finds Trump administration broke law by withholding Ukraine aid

From the article:

The OMB, however, pushed back against the GAO opinion, arguing that the White House office used the “apportionment authority to ensure taxpayer dollars are properly spent consistent with the President's priorities and with the law."

Acting OMB Director Russ Vought tweeted that the GAO report "comes from the same people who said we couldn’t keep National Parks open during the shutdown."

The GAO's opinion is just that, an opinion, not legally binding or conclusive in any way.

Try again.

So how is anyone in government supposed to know if they’re being asked to do something illegal?

Illegal things should be pretty obvious. Again, if they can't figure that out, they should resign.

As we can see from the GAO report, illegal things are not always obvious. Two different agencies have two different opinions about what the law requires.

Then until adjudicated it isn't illegal.

So you want people to do things they think are illegal but haven't been specifically told are illegal?

I love the conversations we find ourselves in as a result of this president. The questions we are having to ask ourselves are just astounding.