This Is Not Your Independence Day

[Nutz]

The attitudes 200 plus years ago were different shocking.

And Progressives fought to change those laws, they didn't just happen from the goodness of the white Christians heart

Who passed the 14th Amendment bigot? All old white men asshole not one black. They passed that crucial law to protect the freeman.

Who would have given women the right to vote bigot? All women? I don't think so you jerk.

Who passed the Civil Rights law bigot? All blacks? Nah.

Go pedal your bigotted tripe somewhere else.

Aren't you a canadian. Why don't you celebrate the day you guys earned independence...........oh, that never happened. Hail to the Queen!

 

[tinydancer]

Re America's First Nations as compared to other natives in other lands.


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Other nations treat their natives differently.

‘They’re killing us’: world’s most endangered tribe cries for help
By Gethin Chamberlain, The Observer
Sunday, April 22, 2012 9:21 EDT

?They're killing us: world's most endangered tribe cries for help

 

[blackhawk]

The attitudes 200 plus years ago were different shocking.

And Progressives fought to change those laws, they didn't just happen from the goodness of the white Christians heart

In Honor of the July 4th weekend and freedom let me just say that is really stupid.

 

[whitehall]

Will the left wing whining never end?

 

[tinydancer]

And Progressives fought to change those laws, they didn't just happen from the goodness of the white Christians heart

Who passed the 14th Amendment bigot? All old white men asshole not one black. They passed that crucial law to protect the freeman.

Who would have given women the right to vote bigot? All women? I don't think so you jerk.

Who passed the Civil Rights law bigot? All blacks? Nah.

Go pedal your bigotted tripe somewhere else.

Aren't you a canadian. Why don't you celebrate the day you guys earned independence...........oh, that never happened. Hail to the Queen!

I'm dual baby! I celebrate the whole first week of July. I am blessed.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

As the article makes clear - it was only Independence Day for WHITE men. WHITE men! Not for women. Not for blacks. Not for Native Americans. Not for anyone but WHITE men.

Disagree.

Had those who drew and ratified the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth Amendment or the Fourteenth Amendment known the components of liberty in its manifold possibilities, they might have been more specific. They did not presume to have this insight. They knew times can blind us to certain truths and later generations can see that laws once thought necessary and proper in fact serve only to oppress. As the Constitution endures, persons in every generation can invoke its principles in their own search for greater freedom.

LAWRENCE V. TEXAS

The Framers correctly understood that it would not be possible to realize comprehensive liberty and freedom at the beginning of our Nation. Consequently they enshrined in the Constitution the principles of liberty and freedom so that “persons in every generation can invoke [those] principles in their own search for greater freedom,” including women, African-Americans, and Native Americans.

Indeed, as Americans became no longer blind to the evils of segregation, discrimination, and denying citizens their civil rights, the principles of liberty acknowledged and codified by the Constitution were finally afforded to women, African-Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, and gay Americans – at last realizing the original intent of the Framers and the Founding Generation, where it is in fact Independence Day for all Americans.

Your points are well taken. However, it's clear that WHITE men got the jump on everyone else.

And to their credit the Framers were aware of this, as they were also aware that they themselves did not know “the components of liberty in its manifold possibilities.”

The Constitution and its case are are an acknowledgment of man's failings and deficiencies, as was the decision by the Framers to create a Constitutional Republic as opposed to a democracy, where the former is best suited to preserve and protect liberty.

 

[reconmark]

Did she say anything that was factually incorrect?

No, but you know some folk on this board always want to attempt to dismiss facts and history they don't like.

 

[reconmark]

attention Mods. Please move this thread to badlands.
It was opened to inflame passions and start arguments resulting in rather caustic posts.
This subject matter is NOT in the realm of politics.

Actually the post is quite proper, you seem to be the only one with their panties on fire.

It was opened to discuss a factual and historical reality.

Perhaps you should read a book or two, home schooling is quite comprehensive these days.

 

[Katzndogz]

238 years and the tears still flow.

Tough shit. Take a laxative.

 

[Erand7899]

Did she say anything that was factually incorrect?

Yes. Taxation without representation was far down the list of grievances:

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

 

[williepete]

This thread clearly defines the egregious oppression we live under in this country. How all injustices of the past are permanent, will never improve and will continue to fester. It's just like North Korea!

It's no wonder there is such a massive refugee...exodus...to....

to...

to...

I'll get back to you on that.

 

[Peach]

Did she say anything that was factually incorrect?

I'm a he, and I don't believe I did.

No, you did not. Still, the signers had women in their lives that hounded them about suffrage even then; Abigail Adams for one. And Adams deplored slavery. Jefferson pondered over the First Nations, as he did slavery; sadly, a man of his time, and only human:


Always a man of dichotomies, Jefferson admired and lauded the American Indian. As a man of the Romantic Era he saw them as unspoiled; the "noble savage". As, also, a man of the Enlightenment, with its analytical detachment, he knew that the Indian way of life could no longer exist in an expanding United States.

Jefferson's attitude toward the Indian population of the United States always seemed as profoundly paradoxical as his attitude toward slavery... On several occasions he went out of his way to describe the Indian people of North America as a noble race who were the innocent victims of history....One senses in so many of Jefferson's observations on Indians an authentic admiration mingled with a truly poignant sense of tragedy about their fate as a people...On the other hand, it was during Jefferson's presidency that the basic decisions were made that required the deportation of massive segments of the Indian population to land west of the Mississippi..."the seeds of extinction" for Native American culture were sown under Jefferson. (Ellis, 1997).

Jefferson had known and been interested in Native Americans all of his life. He had been associated with them during his boyhood in Albemarle County and his college days in Williamsburg. He had heard his father's tales of journeys into the wilderness and his interactions with the Indians, but no Native Americans roamed the forest near Jefferson's boyhood home. The only Indians he saw, as a boy, were "civilized". They were romantic characters to the young lad when they stopped at the Jefferson home on their way to Williamsburg.

 

[Peach]

Did she say anything that was factually incorrect?

I'm a he, and I don't believe I did.

I'm a he, and I don't believe I did.

You lost redskin, get the fuck out.

OMG, such talk scares me. I hope you don't want to turn my scrotum into a tobacco pouch like in the old days.

My father said "Do not expect eloquence from peckerwoods", I wonder why that came to mind while reading the responses to this thread.....

 

[HelenaHandbag]

The 4th of July might commemorate the independence of our country -- but it also serves as a bitter reminder that in 1776, the country that I love had no place for me in it.

When our founding fathers penned, "All men are created equal," they meant it. Not all people. Not all humans. Just all men -- the only reason they didn't feel obliged to specify "white" men is because, at the time, men of color were considered less than men, less than human.

The 4th is not my Independence Day -- and if you're a Caucasian woman, it isn't yours either. Our "independence" didn't come for another 143 years, with the passage of The Woman's Suffrage Amendment in 1919. The 4th of July is also not Independence Day for people of color. It wasn't until the 15th Amendment was ratified in 1870 that all men had the right to vote regardless of race -- on paper, that is, not in practice. People of color were systematically, and all too successfully, disenfranchised for another century. July 4th of 1776 was certainly not a day of Independence or reverence for Native Americans. It wasn't until 1924 that Native Americans could unilaterally become citizens of the United States and have the voting rights to go with it.

Now, before anyone argues that Independence is about more than voting rights, I'd like to point out that our Founding Fathers would fundamentally disagree with you. The Revolutionary War was fought, in large part, because of "taxation without representation" -- the then English colonists believed they were not free because their voices were not represented. The right to vote, the right to have your say is the delineating characteristic of a democracy.

MORE: This Is Not Your Independence Day*|*Carina Kolodny

As the article makes clear - it was only Independence Day for WHITE men. WHITE men! Not for women. Not for blacks. Not for Native Americans. Not for anyone but WHITE men.

Whiner.

 

[Misty]

Whiner. Without white men you wouldn't even have an America to bitch about. (rolleyes).

The 4th of July might commemorate the independence of our country -- but it also serves as a bitter reminder that in 1776, the country that I love had no place for me in it.

When our founding fathers penned, "All men are created equal," they meant it. Not all people. Not all humans. Just all men -- the only reason they didn't feel obliged to specify "white" men is because, at the time, men of color were considered less than men, less than human.

The 4th is not my Independence Day -- and if you're a Caucasian woman, it isn't yours either. Our "independence" didn't come for another 143 years, with the passage of The Woman's Suffrage Amendment in 1919. The 4th of July is also not Independence Day for people of color. It wasn't until the 15th Amendment was ratified in 1870 that all men had the right to vote regardless of race -- on paper, that is, not in practice. People of color were systematically, and all too successfully, disenfranchised for another century. July 4th of 1776 was certainly not a day of Independence or reverence for Native Americans. It wasn't until 1924 that Native Americans could unilaterally become citizens of the United States and have the voting rights to go with it.

Now, before anyone argues that Independence is about more than voting rights, I'd like to point out that our Founding Fathers would fundamentally disagree with you. The Revolutionary War was fought, in large part, because of "taxation without representation" -- the then English colonists believed they were not free because their voices were not represented. The right to vote, the right to have your say is the delineating characteristic of a democracy.

MORE: This Is Not Your Independence Day*|*Carina Kolodny

As the article makes clear - it was only Independence Day for WHITE men. WHITE men! Not for women. Not for blacks. Not for Native Americans. Not for anyone but WHITE men.

 

[Antares]

Did she say anything that was factually incorrect?

I'm a he, and I don't believe I did.

You lost redskin, get the fuck out.

OMG, such talk scares me. I hope you don't want to turn my scrotum into a tobacco pouch like in the old days.

My father said "Do not expect eloquence from peckerwoods", I wonder why that came to mind while reading the responses to this thread.....

Who gives a shit?

 

[aaronleland]

People had different feelings towards minorities 200 years ago than they do today? Tell me more...

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Boo F---ing Hoo.... Asswipe

 

[Peach]

I'm a he, and I don't believe I did.

OMG, such talk scares me. I hope you don't want to turn my scrotum into a tobacco pouch like in the old days.

My father said "Do not expect eloquence from peckerwoods", I wonder why that came to mind while reading the responses to this thread.....

Who gives a shit?

You read it hater; "and another one gone, another one gione, another bites the dust"

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Mommie, mommie


the white guys are so mean 200 years ago



time to grow some chin hair junior

Exactly.

Dorkhota, a/k/a Chief Shitting Bull, thinks that it's "breaking news" that the world has a "history" that includes lots of sordid shit and unfairness.