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There should be more restrictions on what poor people can buy with food stamps.

Lisa558

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Well, you aren't giving anyone anything. The government is. Welfare isn't charity.
The government IS the people who are giving the money. That’s another thing liberals do to hide the fact that they are taking money, by force, from responsible people and handing it over to people who have made such poor life decisions they can’t even feed themselves: it’s the GOVERNMENT paying!
 

dblack

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As I've said elsewhere, what bothers me about the perspective of the OP is they way it uses government dependency as an excuse to expand government power. Here it only impacts poor people (freeloaders), so conservatives don't see it as a problem. It's when it's applied to other government services that the idea will come home to roost.
Anomalism has been quite candid that the same principles apply to health care. By the reasoning of the OP, anyone who benefits from government is living on someone else's tax dollars and must forfeit their autonomy. "You didn't build that"

This is exactly why I've always opposed welfare. It's an invitation for statists to use government "largess" as a means of control. It's already happening. And with more and more people agreeing with the OP, it's going to get worse.
 

dblack

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Nobody said anything even remotely like like that, and you know it.
Sadly, you're wrong:
easier to just limit them to basic commodities and raw foods,, nothing processed or sugary drinks or candies,,

and if anyone remains on welfare for more than two yrs should be declared a ward of the state and restricted from voting,,
 

Lisa558

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If I gave $20,000 to some poor single parent that desperately needed help would I then be an authoritarian asshole for creating rules about how it can be spent? Would it be unreasonable for me to not want that money to be spent on candy, drugs and alcohol?
Precisely! If some poor person asked me for money to paint their house, and I gave them $2000, I have every right to say they need to buy the cheap stuff from Home Depot rather than that expensive “designer“ paint.

Why? Because if they waste the money, they will come back to me and say they need more money because they ran out of paint before the house was done.
 

Lisa558

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Sadly, you're wrong:
Ah, I missed that - but I do agree with half of it. People who “take” year after year should lose the right to vote. They will simply vote for more money for themselves.
 

dblack

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Precisely! If some poor person asked me for money to paint their house, and I gave them $2000, I have every right to say they need to buy the cheap stuff from Home Depot rather than that expensive “designer“ paint.
You didn't give them anything.
 

Lisa558

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You didn't give them anything.
Huh? You’re saying that if some poor person asks me for money for something, and I DO give them some, I didn’t give them anything? You are taking your entitlement attitude to the point of insanity.
 

dblack

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Ah, I missed that - but I do agree with half of it. People who “take” year after year should lose the right to vote. They will simply vote for more money for themselves.
So, you agree they shouldn't be allowed to vote. Should that apply to anyone who benefits from government programs? Or just those who haven't paid enough in taxes to cover the expense?
 

Lisa558

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As I've said elsewhere, what bothers me about the perspective of the OP is they way it uses government dependency as an excuse to expand government power. Here it only impacts poor people (freeloaders), so conservatives don't see it as a problem. It's when it's applied to other government services that the idea will come home to roost.
Anomalism has been quite candid that the same principles apply to health care. By the reasoning of the OP, anyone who benefits from government is living on someone else's tax dollars and must forfeit their autonomy. "You didn't build that"

This is exactly why I've always opposed welfare. It's an invitation for statists to use government "largess" as a means of control. It's already happening. And with more and more people agreeing with the OP, it's going to get worse.
So you’re saying we should abolish food stamps entirely? On one hand, you argue that welfare recipients should be able to spend the money they’re given any irresponsible way they want, and on the other hand, you’re saying they should starve altogether.
 

dblack

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Huh? You’re saying that if some poor person asks me for money for something, and I DO give them some, I didn’t give them anything? You are taking your entitlement attitude to the point of insanity.
No. I'm saying if the government takes your money, that's the end of it. It's no longer your money. You don't get to follow it around and nag everyone who uses it.
 

dblack

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So you’re saying we should abolish food stamps entirely?
Yes.
On one hand, you argue that welfare recipients should be able to spend the money they’re given any irresponsible way they want, and on the other hand, you’re saying they should starve altogether.
No.
 

Lisa558

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So, you agree they shouldn't be allowed to vote. Should that apply to anyone who benefits from government programs? Or just those who haven't paid enough in taxes to cover the expense?
I would say anyone who is not only not paying taxes, but those who are not paying taxes AND getting all sorts of freebies from the government. That is why I am opposed to what Democrats are falsely calling an expanded “tax credit” when it is welfare.
 

danielpalos

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Stop with your ridiculous equal protection laws. It doesn’t mean that lazy people who won’t work get to live as well as self-supporting people. You could use your argument to say that criminals shouldn’t have to live in little cells because other people get to live in nice apartments.
Just admit right-wingers don't really care about being Legal to express (Constitutional) Law but really prefer to only and merely practice the abomination of hypocrisy (unto God with a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge) about being Legal to the Law upon the less fortunate in border threads.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 
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Anomalism

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precisely! What’s with these people who make out like government is a separate entity? WE are the government.
It's a matter of perspective. People that aren't mandated to pay as much might not so easily view it that way.
 

dblack

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I would say anyone who is not only not paying taxes, but those who are not paying taxes AND getting all sorts of freebies from the government.
So it's just whether they're paying taxes now? Does it matter if they've paid taxes for twenty years before, if they've paid way more into the system than they're getting out?
 

Lisa558

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So it's just whether they're paying taxes now? Does it matter if they've paid taxes for twenty years before, if they've paid way more into the system than they're getting out?
It‘s over the long-term. We have plenty of people who have paid buckets of federal income tax, such as seniors, whose income is now lower in retirement and pay little or minimal taxes. And while they were working, they never took food stamps, Medicaid, subsidized housing, etc.

Then on the other hand we have people who are 30, have had their children on Medicaid and food stamps for a dozen years, and during that entire time have never paid federal taxes because their income is so low.

You keep bringing up people who have lost their jobs and are now on food stamps. They are the minority, and the food stamps are only temporary. We here are talking about people who have never paid federal taxes and have, year in and year out, taken lots of government assistance.
 

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