The value of slavery?

[IM2]

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

The mistake the Dems have made is not fulfilling their promises in a speedy manner or sometimes not at all. I dont have a problem with Blacks being one voting bloc. Thats how you concentrate and wield political power. Not all Blacks have the same view just like any other race. However if they wish to see real significant change some of those views have to be put to the side in order to concentrate power.

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Do you believe that racism is gone?

 

[Coyote]

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

The mistake the Dems have made is not fulfilling their promises in a speedy manner or sometimes not at all. I dont have a problem with Blacks being one voting bloc. Thats how you concentrate and wield political power. Not all Blacks have the same view just like any other race. However if they wish to see real significant change some of those views have to be put to the side in order to concentrate power.

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Do you believe that racism is gone?

Nope.

 

[Asclepias]

The mistake the Dems have made is not fulfilling their promises in a speedy manner or sometimes not at all. I dont have a problem with Blacks being one voting bloc. Thats how you concentrate and wield political power. Not all Blacks have the same view just like any other race. However if they wish to see real significant change some of those views have to be put to the side in order to concentrate power.

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Both.

The way it was set up. The way it was and continues to be used to assist whites while punishing Blacks.

When you talk about "our system" - what do you mean? Government?

Government and to an extent white belief system.

.

 

[Asclepias]

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I was speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

Again this is the problem with many whites. You want define racism to try making everyone else just as racist. But:

Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Systemic racism is part of the definition of racism. And even if we limit it to what you want it to mean, the belief in white supremacy has been a cause of world problems. So it is important for whites to work on ending the racism in their community. What you call racism by others is the reaction and anger caused by white racism. Certainly this must be hard to understand when people actually tell a black person how they are wrong or should not be angry when they post here like we have no right to be. In order for things to change, this attitude many whites have whereby they want immediately to tell everybody else how everybody is a racist when they are asked to cleanse their community of it must stop.

Racism is a relatively new concept to humanity. Racism did not exist 1,000 years ago or even further back. It is something that can be ended

I disagree. Racism has existed for as long as humanity has had tribes. And racists can be black, white, or other. We are biologically hardwired to be fearful and exclusive of "the other".

Thats not racism Thats tribalism or nationalism. Racism was created by whites to justify chattel slavery.

 

[IM2]

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I was speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

Again this is the problem with many whites. You want define racism to try making everyone else just as racist. But:

Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Systemic racism is part of the definition of racism. And even if we limit it to what you want it to mean, the belief in white supremacy has been a cause of world problems. So it is important for whites to work on ending the racism in their community. What you call racism by others is the reaction and anger caused by white racism. Certainly this must be hard to understand when people actually tell a black person how they are wrong or should not be angry when they post here like we have no right to be. In order for things to change, this attitude many whites have whereby they want immediately to tell everybody else how everybody is a racist when they are asked to cleanse their community of it must stop.

Racism is a relatively new concept to humanity. Racism did not exist 1,000 years ago or even further back. It is something that can be ended

I disagree. Racism has existed for as long as humanity has had tribes. And racists can be black, white, or other. We are biologically hardwired to be fearful and exclusive of "the other".

You can disagree all you want but recorded histroy doesn't show what you believe to be the case. Whites in these forums just refuse to understand that pawning off of what whites have done with the comment all races can be racist is just bs.

 

[Coyote]

Its not just the past. Its the present and future. There are plenty of Blacks like myself that patronize Black businesses before ever going outside our community.

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

I think democrats do not see things as you think. Unfortunately republicans do and this is why we have to read republicans here ever day accusing democrats of thinking of blacks as one group.

Yes we are all free to support whatever business we want. But the reason why A says what he does is that in order for blacks to create the jobs needed, to rebuild, and to redevelop black communities, blacks must support efforts from other blacks.

There are over 18 million businesses in the U.S. There are 2.6 million back owned businesses. The African-American population is faring slightly better in terms of small business ownership. African-American make up 13.2% of the United States population, and they own 11% of the country’s small businesses. Now of curse this proportion is never considered when we discuss race.

The “2007 Economic Census Survey of Business Owners” found that as of 2007, 1.9 million black businesses accounted for 7.1% of the nation’s businesses, 0.8% of total employees and about 0.5% of total receipts. A summary of the findings for black businesses can be found here.

“It is encouraging that the minority business community is growing and making progress relative to all U.S. firms, but economic parity remains elusive, ” said MBDA’s National Director David A. Hinson.

http://www.blackenterprise.com/number-of-black-owned-businesses-increased-by-61/

In both cases we see the percentages blacks have is lower than the percentage of blacks in the population.

There are many reasons this happens and white racism is one of them. Whites refuse to do business with us, while we're making white business owners rich. Yet these same business won't give to indepedent black organizations that work in the black community. Most of our money is in white banks. But it took an act of congress most republicans oppose called the CRA to get banks to put some of our money back into black neighborhoods. So when people here start trying to argue with us about the black communiy and can't understand how we can "blame ******" it is stands to reason that you apparently don't know about these matters. Whites are not being blamed just because they exist and are white.

I believe in supporting local small business and farms regardless of race....but you do make a valid point about not being aware. On the other hand though...I get the feeling from some here that we are naturally racist because we are white or as one person said all whites are white supremacists. When you lump everyone into one label...then discussion ends. People get, rightfully, defensive.

Like I said, I don’t support reparations per se, to individuals, but I do strongly support investment into neighborhoods, empowering people through home ownership, and investing in education and that those solutions need to come from within each community...not a one size fits all as if all black or other people were the same across the country.

I wanted to add something to this...because I thought it interesting. I have lived in WV almost 30 years, though I was not raised there. NPR has a show called Inside Appalachia and they did a series on race. WV is a very white state, but in the coalfields, there are a lot of blacks, who migrated, attracted to the higher salaries of the mines compared to farming. They did a lot of interviews and such, and talked with many people about race. Many of them grew up when segregation was still in effect, but in the mines everyone worked together, depended for their lives on each other, and shared their lives despite race. It was interesting to listen to those folks talking. But what I wonder is - what community means. In this area does it mean the white community vs the black community? Or is it - we're all struggling together here, looking for solutions in an area where mining jobs are largely gone compared to 30 years ago, towns are depopulated, and people are struggling regardless of race.

 

[IM2]

The mistake the Dems have made is not fulfilling their promises in a speedy manner or sometimes not at all. I dont have a problem with Blacks being one voting bloc. Thats how you concentrate and wield political power. Not all Blacks have the same view just like any other race. However if they wish to see real significant change some of those views have to be put to the side in order to concentrate power.

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Do you believe that racism is gone?

Nope.

Then why ask the question you asked?

 

[Coyote]

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I was speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

Again this is the problem with many whites. You want define racism to try making everyone else just as racist. But:

Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Systemic racism is part of the definition of racism. And even if we limit it to what you want it to mean, the belief in white supremacy has been a cause of world problems. So it is important for whites to work on ending the racism in their community. What you call racism by others is the reaction and anger caused by white racism. Certainly this must be hard to understand when people actually tell a black person how they are wrong or should not be angry when they post here like we have no right to be. In order for things to change, this attitude many whites have whereby they want immediately to tell everybody else how everybody is a racist when they are asked to cleanse their community of it must stop.

Racism is a relatively new concept to humanity. Racism did not exist 1,000 years ago or even further back. It is something that can be ended

I disagree. Racism has existed for as long as humanity has had tribes. And racists can be black, white, or other. We are biologically hardwired to be fearful and exclusive of "the other".

Thats not racism Thats nationalism. Racism was created by whites to justify chattel slavery.

I disagree...it's not nationalism. It's biology in part. Racism exists everywhere independent of slavery. Look at Japan and, how it views non Japanese "foreigners" for example. "round eyes"....

 

[IM2]

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

I think democrats do not see things as you think. Unfortunately republicans do and this is why we have to read republicans here ever day accusing democrats of thinking of blacks as one group.

Yes we are all free to support whatever business we want. But the reason why A says what he does is that in order for blacks to create the jobs needed, to rebuild, and to redevelop black communities, blacks must support efforts from other blacks.

There are over 18 million businesses in the U.S. There are 2.6 million back owned businesses. The African-American population is faring slightly better in terms of small business ownership. African-American make up 13.2% of the United States population, and they own 11% of the country’s small businesses. Now of curse this proportion is never considered when we discuss race.

The “2007 Economic Census Survey of Business Owners” found that as of 2007, 1.9 million black businesses accounted for 7.1% of the nation’s businesses, 0.8% of total employees and about 0.5% of total receipts. A summary of the findings for black businesses can be found here.

“It is encouraging that the minority business community is growing and making progress relative to all U.S. firms, but economic parity remains elusive, ” said MBDA’s National Director David A. Hinson.

Number of Black-Owned Businesses Increased by 61%

In both cases we see the percentages blacks have is lower than the percentage of blacks in the population.

There are many reasons this happens and white racism is one of them. Whites refuse to do business with us, while we're making white business owners rich. Yet these same business won't give to indepedent black organizations that work in the black community. Most of our money is in white banks. But it took an act of congress most republicans oppose called the CRA to get banks to put some of our money back into black neighborhoods. So when people here start trying to argue with us about the black communiy and can't understand how we can "blame ******" it is stands to reason that you apparently don't know about these matters. Whites are not being blamed just because they exist and are white.

I believe in supporting local small business and farms regardless of race....but you do make a valid point about not being aware. On the other hand though...I get the feeling from some here that we are naturally racist because we are white or as one person said all whites are white supremacists. When you lump everyone into one label...then discussion ends. People get, rightfully, defensive.

Like I said, I don’t support reparations per se, to individuals, but I do strongly support investment into neighborhoods, empowering people through home ownership, and investing in education and that those solutions need to come from within each community...not a one size fits all as if all black or other people were the same across the country.

I wanted to add something to this...because I thought it interesting. I have lived in WV almost 30 years, though I was not raised there. NPR has a show called Inside Appalachia and they did a series on race. WV is a very white state, but in the coalfields, there are a lot of blacks, who migrated, attracted to the higher salaries of the mines compared to farming. They did a lot of interviews and such, and talked with many people about race. Many of them grew up when segregation was still in effect, but in the mines everyone worked together, depended for their lives on each other, and shared their lives despite race. It was interesting to listen to those folks talking. But what I wonder is - what community means. In this area does it mean the white community vs the black community? Or is it - we're all struggling together here, looking for solutions in an area where mining jobs are largely gone compared to 30 years ago, towns are depopulated, and people are struggling regardless of race.

It very well may mean both.

 

[Coyote]

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Do you believe that racism is gone?

Nope.

Then why ask the question you asked?

Because people can be racist, systems can be racists, policies and laws can be racist...it can be one, some or all. So what makes our SYSTEM racist? As opposed to individuals?

I can think of some things - the criminal justice system for example. That would be a system that while not overtly racist, has ended up being racist in how things are handled.

 

[Coyote]

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Both.

The way it was set up. The way it was and continues to be used to assist whites while punishing Blacks.

When you talk about "our system" - what do you mean? Government?

Government and to an extent white belief system.

View attachment 204883 .

What white belief system?

 

[Asclepias]

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Do you believe that racism is gone?

Nope.

Then why ask the question you asked?

Because people can be racist, systems can be racists, policies and laws can be racist...it can be one, some or all. So what makes our SYSTEM racist? As opposed to individuals?

I can think of some things - the criminal justice system for example. That would be a system that while not overtly racist, has ended up being racist in how things are handled.

...while not overtly racist

Seriously?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Lottery is an example of what people do when the win large sums of money. Same with rhose who got tax rebates as stimulus. People think individually first, family second..and then tribe or community. I dont see why this would be any different.

Alot of Blacks understand the fallacy of thinking individually in this country. If the Black population here in the US knew most Blacks were getting a large sum of money then they would agree to start working on the community. We know this because this is how we built successful communities in the past.

That was the past. You're dealing with a whole different breed nowadays, as we all are.

Its not just the past. Its the present and future. There are plenty of Blacks like myself that patronize Black businesses before ever going outside our community.

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

I ask you this, if I were white, and if I were to declare that I preferred to deal with white-only businesses, even going out of my way to do so, would you call that racist?

 

[Montrovant]

Isn't Asclepias black? He's the one who said he can't convince people not to support racism.

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I was speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

Again this is the problem with many whites. You want define racism to try making everyone else just as racist. But:

Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Systemic racism is part of the definition of racism. And even if we limit it to what you want it to mean, the belief in white supremacy has been a cause of world problems. So it is important for whites to work on ending the racism in their community. What you call racism by others is the reaction and anger caused by white racism. Certainly this must be hard to understand when people actually tell a black person how they are wrong or should not be angry when they post here like we have no right to be. In order for things to change, this attitude many whites have whereby they want immediately to tell everybody else how everybody is a racist when they are asked to cleanse their community of it must stop.

Racism is a relatively new concept to humanity. Racism did not exist 1,000 years ago or even further back. It is something that can be ended

When a word has multiple definitions, they don't all apply at once.

I'm sorry, but the idea that only whites are actually ever racist, and anyone else is simply reacting to white racism, is asinine. Racism is not something only whites are capable of. I'm not saying everyone, or anyone in particular at all, is racist. I'm merely pointing out the obvious truth that any person can be racist, when using the first definition you posted.

I have been perfectly happy to agree on other occasions that not everyone is capable of systemic, institutional racism. I'll do so again now: not everyone is in a position to be capable of systemic, institutional racism. In the US, whites have been the only group in such a position for most or all of our history.

Whether one is black or some other race, if you post on this message board, plenty of people are going to tell you you are wrong.

Perhaps you should try to understand that disagreeing with the premise that only whites are racist does not mean a person believes "everyone else is racist." Generally I think it means that everyone is human, and humans are capable of racism. That does not mean "everybody is a racist." That's silly hyperbole. It just means that racism is not the exclusive province of any particular race.

If you want race relations to improve (which I am guessing is what you are saying when you talk about things changing, and would include equal treatment by government and society at large), telling whites they are the only ones who need to improve in any way isn't likely to help. People do not usually react well to being told they are bad or wrong compared to others, and they need to improve while everyone else is doing fine, I don't think.

As a side note: I don't know that many whites, at least in the US, consider their race a "community." That may be because whites haven't needed to think of themselves that way, but that doesn't change that I don't think it is a common consideration.

 

[Asclepias]

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I was speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

Again this is the problem with many whites. You want define racism to try making everyone else just as racist. But:

Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Systemic racism is part of the definition of racism. And even if we limit it to what you want it to mean, the belief in white supremacy has been a cause of world problems. So it is important for whites to work on ending the racism in their community. What you call racism by others is the reaction and anger caused by white racism. Certainly this must be hard to understand when people actually tell a black person how they are wrong or should not be angry when they post here like we have no right to be. In order for things to change, this attitude many whites have whereby they want immediately to tell everybody else how everybody is a racist when they are asked to cleanse their community of it must stop.

Racism is a relatively new concept to humanity. Racism did not exist 1,000 years ago or even further back. It is something that can be ended

I disagree. Racism has existed for as long as humanity has had tribes. And racists can be black, white, or other. We are biologically hardwired to be fearful and exclusive of "the other".

Thats not racism Thats nationalism. Racism was created by whites to justify chattel slavery.

I disagree...it's not nationalism. It's biology in part. Racism exists everywhere independent of slavery. Look at Japan and, how it views non Japanese "foreigners" for example. "round eyes"....

I disagree. Black people from different groups had issues with each other all the time and they were the same race. Look at the Egyptians and the Nubians. Same race of people but they fought for control of that area all the time.

 

[Coyote]

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Do you believe that racism is gone?

Nope.

Then why ask the question you asked?

Because people can be racist, systems can be racists, policies and laws can be racist...it can be one, some or all. So what makes our SYSTEM racist? As opposed to individuals?

I can think of some things - the criminal justice system for example. That would be a system that while not overtly racist, has ended up being racist in how things are handled.

...while not overtly racist

Seriously?

Yes seriously. By that I mean the laws themselves are not racist - but the way they might get applied, the way juveniles of one race get shunted into the criminal justice system far more frequently then those of the other race, the descrepencies in sentancing between black and white (though economic situations also play a role) - but that isn't "overt" in the sense that it isn't in the law, it's how people act.

 

[Asclepias]

Alot of Blacks understand the fallacy of thinking individually in this country. If the Black population here in the US knew most Blacks were getting a large sum of money then they would agree to start working on the community. We know this because this is how we built successful communities in the past.

That was the past. You're dealing with a whole different breed nowadays, as we all are.

Its not just the past. Its the present and future. There are plenty of Blacks like myself that patronize Black businesses before ever going outside our community.

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

I ask you this, if I were white, and if I were to declare that I preferred to deal with white-only businesses, even going out of my way to do so, would you call that racist?

Depends on what your reasons were for doing it.

 

[Coyote]

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I was speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

Again this is the problem with many whites. You want define racism to try making everyone else just as racist. But:

Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Systemic racism is part of the definition of racism. And even if we limit it to what you want it to mean, the belief in white supremacy has been a cause of world problems. So it is important for whites to work on ending the racism in their community. What you call racism by others is the reaction and anger caused by white racism. Certainly this must be hard to understand when people actually tell a black person how they are wrong or should not be angry when they post here like we have no right to be. In order for things to change, this attitude many whites have whereby they want immediately to tell everybody else how everybody is a racist when they are asked to cleanse their community of it must stop.

Racism is a relatively new concept to humanity. Racism did not exist 1,000 years ago or even further back. It is something that can be ended

I disagree. Racism has existed for as long as humanity has had tribes. And racists can be black, white, or other. We are biologically hardwired to be fearful and exclusive of "the other".

Thats not racism Thats nationalism. Racism was created by whites to justify chattel slavery.

I disagree...it's not nationalism. It's biology in part. Racism exists everywhere independent of slavery. Look at Japan and, how it views non Japanese "foreigners" for example. "round eyes"....

I disagree. Black people from different groups had issues with each other all the time and they were the same race. Look at the Egyptians and the Nubians. Same race of people but they fought for control of that area all the time.

Nationalism or tribalism is different than racism...I agree. But racism didn't come into being with slavery - it has existed as long as humans have realized that other humans look very different. Maybe it's not all that different than tribalism. Essentially, racism (in a broader definition) is dehumanizing another group right?

 

[Asclepias]

Do you believe that racism is gone?

Nope.

Then why ask the question you asked?

Because people can be racist, systems can be racists, policies and laws can be racist...it can be one, some or all. So what makes our SYSTEM racist? As opposed to individuals?

I can think of some things - the criminal justice system for example. That would be a system that while not overtly racist, has ended up being racist in how things are handled.

...while not overtly racist

Seriously?

Yes seriously. By that I mean the laws themselves are not racist - but the way they might get applied, the way juveniles of one race get shunted into the criminal justice system far more frequently then those of the other race, the descrepencies in sentancing between black and white (though economic situations also play a role) - but that isn't "overt" in the sense that it isn't in the law, it's how people act.

The laws are racist as well. Just because they code the language doesnt make it less racist. Why does a crack dealer get more time than a cocaine dealer? One is traditionally Black and the other is traditionally white. The net effect of the law is overtly racist.

 

[Coyote]

That was the past. You're dealing with a whole different breed nowadays, as we all are.

Its not just the past. Its the present and future. There are plenty of Blacks like myself that patronize Black businesses before ever going outside our community.

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

I ask you this, if I were white, and if I were to declare that I preferred to deal with white-only businesses, even going out of my way to do so, would you call that racist?

Depends on what your reasons were for doing it.

Agree...if you chose to frequent white business because you dislike blacks...that could be racist. Likewise if you chose to frequent black business because you dislike whites. But supporting particular business because you want to support a community isn't.