The U.S. War On Drugs May Soon Run Into A Problem...

[Vox]

I used to be a strong proponent of total decriminalization of ALL drugs. I still think people should not be prosecuted for possession of light drugs. But I have been reading on the subject and to my surprise, it is not a one-way street of success after legalization. Actually, quite to the contrary.
Read yourself - and note - the sites are NOT conservative sites.

Drug Legalization Could Create More Crime - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com
Legalizing Marijuana -- The Real Costs | Deni Carise

Drug problems increase after pot legalization, police say | 9news.com

Marijuana: The Myths Are Killing Us

 

[Derideo_Te]

Tax creates an automatic black market. Of course there will still be war, war between drug dealers won't be somehow better than war between law enforcement and drug dealers.

Nonsense!

The mexican cartels have taken over 60,000 dealers and users off the streets permanently. The only thing wrong with those numbers is they happened in mexico and not in the US. Hopefully that will change. There is no reason why American bars should be deprived of having the heads of users rolling around their floors.

There are no drug cartels if drugs are legalized just like there are no rum running gangstas anymore because alcohol is legal!

 

[paulitician]

Either way, he/she is sick and should seek help.

you guys are simply idiots, which for you, being leftards, is not surprising.

The style she is posting is called grotesque.
Look it up in the dictionary

How about get back on topic? This is a very good subject and you are ruining this discussion for everyone.

Thanks.

I think that the war on drugs was a huge mistake - the only remorse that people seem to have is that we weren't tougher on it. Like that ever worked in the first place.

Yeah, people will always want to get high. That's never gonna change. I don't see it as a Crime problem. Choosing to get high is not a criminal offense in my opinion. But can drug use cause very serious problems for individuals and their families? Yes, absolutely. But that's another issue entirely. We know Alcohol abuse can cause the same serious issues.

The method in which one chooses to get high, is irrelevant. Some like Alcohol, some like Marijuana. As long as they're not committing a crime, it's their business. But it will take many more years for Americans to come around to a more logical & humane way of approaching this. The Propaganda is so strong. Changing Peoples' views on this won't be easy and will take much time.

 

[BlindBoo]

I used to be a strong proponent of total decriminalization of ALL drugs. I still think people should not be prosecuted for possession of light drugs. But I have been reading on the subject and to my surprise, it is not a one-way street of success after legalization. Actually, quite to the contrary.
Read yourself - and note - the sites are NOT conservative sites.

Drug Legalization Could Create More Crime - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com
Legalizing Marijuana -- The Real Costs | Deni Carise

Drug problems increase after pot legalization, police say | 9news.com

Marijuana: The Myths Are Killing Us

In fine Anslinger tradition, Karen Tandy goes whole hog in that last link Vox, "They stuffed marijuana leaves into her mouth because, according to news sources, "they knew that drug is sometimes used to treat cancer patients."

First of all no one condones ecstasy use by 14 year olds. Second, where did her 14 year old friends get marijuana leaves?

 

[Vox]

I used to be a strong proponent of total decriminalization of ALL drugs. I still think people should not be prosecuted for possession of light drugs. But I have been reading on the subject and to my surprise, it is not a one-way street of success after legalization. Actually, quite to the contrary.
Read yourself - and note - the sites are NOT conservative sites.

Drug Legalization Could Create More Crime - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com
Legalizing Marijuana -- The Real Costs | Deni Carise

Drug problems increase after pot legalization, police say | 9news.com

Marijuana: The Myths Are Killing Us

In fine Anslinger tradition, Karen Tandy goes whole hog in that last link Vox, "They stuffed marijuana leaves into her mouth because, according to news sources, "they knew that drug is sometimes used to treat cancer patients."

First of all no one condones ecstasy use by 14 year olds. Second, where did her 14 year old friends get marijuana leaves?

well, she does not need to tell me the harm marijuana does to one's brain - I know it already and the medical community of this country has known it since the mid-70%.

And I am glad you do not find the other links ( which have exactly the links to the studies which have proven numerous times the harm marijuana is causing to the brain) to be objectionable

p.s. you don't know where one can get marijuana leaves? it's a weed

 

[Derideo_Te]

I used to be a strong proponent of total decriminalization of ALL drugs. I still think people should not be prosecuted for possession of light drugs. But I have been reading on the subject and to my surprise, it is not a one-way street of success after legalization. Actually, quite to the contrary.
Read yourself - and note - the sites are NOT conservative sites.

Drug Legalization Could Create More Crime - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com
Legalizing Marijuana -- The Real Costs | Deni Carise

Drug problems increase after pot legalization, police say | 9news.com

Marijuana: The Myths Are Killing Us

In fine Anslinger tradition, Karen Tandy goes whole hog in that last link Vox, "They stuffed marijuana leaves into her mouth because, according to news sources, "they knew that drug is sometimes used to treat cancer patients."

First of all no one condones ecstasy use by 14 year olds. Second, where did her 14 year old friends get marijuana leaves?

well, she does not need to tell me the harm marijuana does to one's brain - I know it already and the medical community of this country has known it since the mid-70%.

And I am glad you do not find the other links ( which have exactly the links to the studies which have proven numerous times the harm marijuana is causing to the brain) to be objectionable

p.s. you don't know where one can get marijuana leaves? it's a weed

Putting aside the debunked fallacy that marijuana causes "harm to the brain" it begs the question as to what caused your brain damage, Vox?

Heavy Marijuana Use Doesn't Damage Brain

Heavy Marijuana Use Doesn't Damage Brain

July 1, 2003 -- Long-term and even daily marijuana use doesn't appear to cause permanent brain damage, adding to evidence that it can be a safe and effective treatment for a wide range of diseases, say researchers.



The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. Otherwise, scores on thinking tests were similar to those who don't smoke marijuana, according to a new analysis of 15 previous studies.



In those studies, some 700 regular marijuana users were compared with 484 non-users on various aspects of brain function -- including reaction time, language and motor skills, reasoning ability, memory, and the ability to learn new information.




Surprising Finding



"We were somewhat surprised by our finding, especially since there's been a controversy for some years on whether long-term cannabis use causes brain damage," says lead researcher and psychiatrist Igor Grant, MD.



"I suppose we expected to see some differences in people who were heavy users, but in fact the differences were very minimal."



The marijuana users in those 15 studies -- which lasted between three months to more than 13 years -- had smoked marijuana several times a week or month or daily. Still, researchers say impairments were less than what is typically found from using alcohol or other drugs.



"All study participants were adults," says Grant, professor of psychiatry and director of the Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research Center at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine.

 

[Vox]

yawn

derideo, we have had this argument before and I have proven with links and proven studies that marijuana causes brain damage. irreversible.

which you constant lying only proves.

but relax - I have stated, that I am not opposed to decriminalization of weed

 

[Vox]

one of the MANY and not from 2003, but 2010
Adolescent brain maturation, the endogenous cannabinoid system and the neurobiology of cannabis-induced schizophrenia
Cannabis use during adolescence increases the risk of developing psychotic disorders later in life.

 

[Vox]

Chronic Effects of Cannabis Use on the Auditory Mismatch Negativity
These results suggest impaired sensory memory that might reflect N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor dysfunction in chronic cannabis users. The pattern of MMN alterations in cannabis users differed from that typically observed in patients with schizophrenia, indicating overlapping but distinct underlying pathology.
Vulnerability of Adolescent Brain Growth to Cannabis - Springer
Cannabis use during adolescence has also been linked to an increased risk for the development of schizophrenia, especially in individuals who are genetically predisposed to the disease. This chapter discusses in detail the impact of marijuana on the development of white matter and the hippocampus and the drug’s putative role in the disruption of normal brain development during adolescence.
Effect of long-term cannabis use on axonal fibre connectivity


et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

but you, derideo, can smoke as much pot as you wish - your cognitive function has been killed long time ago

 

[Vox]

and this is straightforward from Huffington Post :

Perhaps one of the biggest prices we would pay for legalizing marijuana has to do with the message we send to our youth and the negative effects we now know are caused by its use. Recent NIH reports show that fewer adolescents believe that regular marijuana use is harmful to their health. At the same time, adolescents are initiating pot use at younger ages, are more likely to use it on a daily basis, and are using marijuana that is much more potent than that used by previous generations.

Most unfortunately, research has shown that persistent marijuana use is associated with neuropsychological decline and more cognitive problems. It has an impact on mental development and is associated with the onset of major mental illness, including psychosis, schizophrenia, depression, and anxiety. Impairment is worst when marijuana use begins in adolescence, with more persistent use associated with greater decline. Even more disheartening, stopping use does not fully restore neuropsychological functioning among adolescent-onset users. In addition, marijuana use is consistently associated with poorer academic grades and reduced likelihood of graduating from high school. Heavy adolescent marijuana use (defined as using more than 20 times) may lead to drug and property crime and criminal justice system interactions.
[/B]
Legalizing marijuana sends the explicit message to our youth that this drug is okay, that it is harmless, when it is addictive and can destroy their lives.

Legalizing Marijuana -- The Real Costs | Deni Carise
A person under the influence of marijuana has a diminished cognitive capacity, regular use leads to persistent decreases in cognitive abilities, and -- for young people -- its use can delay cognitive development, and its users are more likely to be involved in an accident or perpetrate a crime. Legalizing marijuana will increase users, increase frequency and have long-term consequences for our youth. The tax revenue it would generate would be dwarfed by the costs to our society. Isn't that enough to make us just say no to legalization?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Chronic Effects of Cannabis Use on the Auditory Mismatch Negativity
These results suggest impaired sensory memory that might reflect N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor dysfunction in chronic cannabis users. The pattern of MMN alterations in cannabis users differed from that typically observed in patients with schizophrenia, indicating overlapping but distinct underlying pathology.
Vulnerability of Adolescent Brain Growth to Cannabis - Springer
Cannabis use during adolescence has also been linked to an increased risk for the development of schizophrenia, especially in individuals who are genetically predisposed to the disease. This chapter discusses in detail the impact of marijuana on the development of white matter and the hippocampus and the drug’s putative role in the disruption of normal brain development during adolescence.
Effect of long-term cannabis use on axonal fibre connectivity


et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

but you, derideo, can smoke as much pot as you wish - your cognitive function has been killed long time ago

Typical debunked canards from Vox!

Alcohol causes damage to adolescent minds and given that schizophrenia is already evidence of a damaged mind that study is equally worthless. Compared to a competent long term study done over 13 years you have zero in the way to "evidence".

 

[Vox]

Persistent cannabis use was associated with neuropsychological decline broadly across domains of functioning, even after controlling for years of education. Informants also reported noticing more cognitive problems for persistent cannabis users. Impairment was concentrated among adolescent-onset cannabis users, with more persistent use associated with greater decline. Further, cessation of cannabis use did not fully restore neuropsychological functioning among adolescent-onset cannabis users. Findings are suggestive of a neurotoxic effect of cannabis on the adolescent brain and highlight the importance of prevention and policy efforts targeting adolescents.

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2012 Oct 2;109(40):E2657-64. doi: 10.1073/pnas.1206820109. Epub 2012 Aug 27.
Persistent cannabis users show neuropsychological decline from childhood to midlife.

 

[Vox]

Chronic Effects of Cannabis Use on the Auditory Mismatch Negativity
These results suggest impaired sensory memory that might reflect N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor dysfunction in chronic cannabis users. The pattern of MMN alterations in cannabis users differed from that typically observed in patients with schizophrenia, indicating overlapping but distinct underlying pathology.
Vulnerability of Adolescent Brain Growth to Cannabis - Springer
Cannabis use during adolescence has also been linked to an increased risk for the development of schizophrenia, especially in individuals who are genetically predisposed to the disease. This chapter discusses in detail the impact of marijuana on the development of white matter and the hippocampus and the drug’s putative role in the disruption of normal brain development during adolescence.
Effect of long-term cannabis use on axonal fibre connectivity


et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

but you, derideo, can smoke as much pot as you wish - your cognitive function has been killed long time ago

Typical debunked canards from Vox!

Alcohol causes damage to adolescent minds and given that schizophrenia is already evidence of a damaged mind that study is equally worthless. Compared to a competent long term study done over 13 years you have zero in the way to "evidence".

we are NOT talking about alcohol, but about weed.

weed causes irreversible brain damage - which has been proven. don't post link to 10-y.o study which jas been debunked in 2009, 2012, 2013 - and my links are from those years, not some old debunked ones, as yours.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Persistent cannabis use was associated with neuropsychological decline broadly across domains of functioning, even after controlling for years of education. Informants also reported noticing more cognitive problems for persistent cannabis users. Impairment was concentrated among adolescent-onset cannabis users, with more persistent use associated with greater decline. Further, cessation of cannabis use did not fully restore neuropsychological functioning among adolescent-onset cannabis users. Findings are suggestive of a neurotoxic effect of cannabis on the adolescent brain and highlight the importance of prevention and policy efforts targeting adolescents.

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2012 Oct 2;109(40):E2657-64. doi: 10.1073/pnas.1206820109. Epub 2012 Aug 27.
Persistent cannabis users show neuropsychological decline from childhood to midlife.

Why doesn't Vox admit that alcohol will cause damage to adolescent minds?

Perhaps because alcohol is illegal for minors and so is marijuana!

Post as much as you like but there is nothing credible that supports your position when it comes to adults.

 

[Vox]

Impact
*of
*Marijuana
*on
*Children
*and
*Adolescents
CSAM
*WEBSITE
Evidence-*‐Based
*Information
*on
*September 2009
Cannabis/Marijuana
http://www.csam-asam.org/sites/default/files/impact_of_marijuana_on_children_and_adolescents.pdf

 

[Derideo_Te]

Chronic Effects of Cannabis Use on the Auditory Mismatch Negativity
These results suggest impaired sensory memory that might reflect N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor dysfunction in chronic cannabis users. The pattern of MMN alterations in cannabis users differed from that typically observed in patients with schizophrenia, indicating overlapping but distinct underlying pathology.
Vulnerability of Adolescent Brain Growth to Cannabis - Springer
Cannabis use during adolescence has also been linked to an increased risk for the development of schizophrenia, especially in individuals who are genetically predisposed to the disease. This chapter discusses in detail the impact of marijuana on the development of white matter and the hippocampus and the drug’s putative role in the disruption of normal brain development during adolescence.
Effect of long-term cannabis use on axonal fibre connectivity


et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

but you, derideo, can smoke as much pot as you wish - your cognitive function has been killed long time ago

Typical debunked canards from Vox!

Alcohol causes damage to adolescent minds and given that schizophrenia is already evidence of a damaged mind that study is equally worthless. Compared to a competent long term study done over 13 years you have zero in the way to "evidence".

we are NOT talking about alcohol, but about weed.

weed causes irreversible brain damage - which has been proven. don't post link to 10-y.o study which jas been debunked in 2009, 2012, 2013 - and my links are from those years, not some old debunked ones, as yours.

Having a meltdown doesn't change the facts, Vox. Your links are only related to chronic juvenile use carried into adulthood.

 

[Vox]

Cornelius,
*J.
*R.,
*H.
*J.
*Aizenstein,
*et
*al.
*(2010).
*"Amygdala
*reactivity
*is
*inversely
*
related
*to
*level
*of
*cannabis
*use
*in
*individuals
*with
*comorbid
*cannabis dependence
*
and
*major
*depression."
* Addict
*Behav35(6):
*644 -*‐646.

activity.
*Thus,
*a
*higher
*level
*of
*cannabis
*use
*was
*
consistently
*associated
*with
*a
*lower
*level
*of
*amygdala
*reactivity
*across
*all
*
subjects
*(matched
*pairs
*t
*=
*2.70,
*df
*=
*5,
*p
*<
*0.05,
*two -*&#8208;tailed).
*These
*findings
*
are
*consistent
*with
*the
*reports
*by
*Phan
*et
*al.
*(2008)
*and
*Hariri
*et
*al.
*(2009)
*
suggesting
*that
*cannabinoids
*have
*an
*inhibitory
*effect
*on
*threat -*&#8208;related
*
amygdala
*reactivity
http://www.csam-asam.org/sites/default/files/impact_of_marijuana_on_children_and_adolescents.pdf

 

[KevinWestern]

and this is straightforward from Huffington Post :

Perhaps one of the biggest prices we would pay for legalizing marijuana has to do with the message we send to our youth and the negative effects we now know are caused by its use. Recent NIH reports show that fewer adolescents believe that regular marijuana use is harmful to their health. At the same time, adolescents are initiating pot use at younger ages, are more likely to use it on a daily basis, and are using marijuana that is much more potent than that used by previous generations.

Well, here's my response.

Simply put, is the theoretical price you list above (I say theoretical because it hasn't occurred yet) worth the ACTUAL prices we pay today for prohibition? Which are:

1.) Millions of non-violent offenders in jail for possession (ie what&#8217;s worse, a dad who smokes pot or a dad who&#8217;s in jail for 2 years?)
2.) Hundreds of Millions of dollars we pay for the non-violent offenders in prison (we pay for their life 24/7)
3.) Hundreds of Millions of dollars we pay to the public court officials, officers, DEA, etc who enforce the law
4.) Tens of Billions+ of dollars and jobs our economy loses out on because Marijuana is being produced in Mexico vs. US. Did you know the alcohol industry in the US generates over $400 billion in economic activity each ear in the US??!
5.) Billions of dollars in taxes we lose out on because Marijuana is being sold on the black market
6.) The POWER we give to the cartels. Remove marijuana and half of their business disappears overnight (less $&#8217;s for guns, thugs, etc). People are actively DYING right now, and it's not theoretical. When was the last time the Budweiser gang did a drive by and kill two innocent kids?
7.) 60% of adults who have used pot are subjected to a drug with no controls/regulations/safety checks. Americans will smoke pot regardless, would you rather them use a safer product?

Vox &#8211; I don&#8217;t ever make the claim that marijuana makes American life better, my only claim is that the costs associated with prohibition far outweigh the costs we pay when it&#8217;s legalized. Are you willing to pay the 1-7 costs just to avoid theoretically sending the youths a &#8220;bad message&#8221; about a drug they won&#8217;t be able to legally purchase?

I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a good reason, personally.

 

[Contumacious]

Persistent cannabis use was associated with neuropsychological decline broadly across domains of functioning, even after controlling for years of education.

The smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health

.

 

[Vox]

Typical debunked canards from Vox!

Alcohol causes damage to adolescent minds and given that schizophrenia is already evidence of a damaged mind that study is equally worthless. Compared to a competent long term study done over 13 years you have zero in the way to "evidence".

we are NOT talking about alcohol, but about weed.

weed causes irreversible brain damage - which has been proven. don't post link to 10-y.o study which jas been debunked in 2009, 2012, 2013 - and my links are from those years, not some old debunked ones, as yours.

Having a meltdown doesn't change the facts, Vox. Your links are only related to chronic juvenile use carried into adulthood.

stop lying.

Cannabis use causes irreversible brain damage - in adults as in adolescents. and the latter ones are the ones which are going to be the most vulnerable.

so stop lying.

although you are a leftard - you ALWAYS LIE.
that is your modus operandi.