The two ends of the political spectrum are killing us

[sartre play]

Can ANY one post some baby step solutions for us average hard working Americans.
We should have the ability
to join together, to take back just a little of the power,
that is suppose to already belong to us.

 

[Mac1958]

The extreme left and right will both be extinguished. In a century, your rankings will be taught to children as the ravings of a madman.

You're more hopeful on this than I am, but I look forward to being surprised.

 

[Mac1958]

Can ANY one post some baby step solutions for us average hard working Americans.
We should have the ability
to join together, to take back just a little of the power,
that is suppose to already belong to us.

I don't see any solutions in the short term, unless we see some kind of momentum where well-known people put their foot down and say that enough is enough. This is a celebrity-driven culture, so that could have some influence.

Otherwise, the electorate has to be convinced to vote in people who commit to fixing our system. How to do that? I couldn't tell you.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

"Molon Labe"! Come and take my brain ... you won't be able to find it.
I repeat: half the founding editorial board of National Review -- not that you've ever heard of that publication, I suppose -- were ex-Marxists.

Look, just because you can't argue or discuss with Leftists, because they always beat you when you try, doesn't mean that everyone is that inadequate.

We can win some of these people over. Events are proving that we are right. Anyone who believes in Free Speech, must leave the Left. A first step.

The only people who don't want us to pull people away from the Left, are ... Leftists!

How can someone take something from you when you don't have it? A person with a brain wouldn't try to work out things out with leftists. You're a fucking fool

 

[leftwinger]

I don't see any solutions in the short term, unless we see some kind of momentum where well-known people put their foot down and say that enough is enough. This is a celebrity-driven culture, so that could have some influence.

Otherwise, the electorate has to be convinced to vote in people who commit to fixing our system. How to do that? I couldn't tell you.

people who commit to fixing our system

Fix what? The big one is $2T over-spending annually. How do you fix that?
Don't say TAX the RICH unless you can say HOW you would do that.
I know Franco and Hutch don't have a clue. You are the only hope for the LW mob.

Where would you confiscate $2T out of the economy w/o hurting the economy?
Since they won't cut Spending. How do you fix that?

 

[leftwinger]

I don't see any solutions in the short term, unless we see some kind of momentum where well-known people put their foot down and say that enough is enough. This is a celebrity-driven culture, so that could have some influence.

Otherwise, the electorate has to be convinced to vote in people who commit to fixing our system. How to do that? I couldn't tell you.

people who commit to fixing our system.

OK, next problem. Increasing Violent Black or Brown Crime rates. ANTIFA, BLM riots all of 2020.
How do you fix that? DC won't stop it, they start bail funds for rioters.
Maybe States have to fix it?

 

[Doug1943]

Can ANY one post some baby step solutions for us average hard working Americans.
We should have the ability
to join together, to take back just a little of the power,
that is suppose to already belong to us.

This is right on target.

Let's come up with a single issue that can unite the 'little people' across the political spectrum. Something that is actually achieveable.

What about campaign finance reform? (Even if it took a Constutional amendment.)
It's not a subject I know a lot about, but I think that in the US, big money plays way too much a role in politics. Maybe others here know more about it, and can post some relevant links we can all read, and then discuss in a separate thread.

Another issue, a bit trickier: Voting. It shouldn't be beyond the reach of man, for us to devise an extremely secure, auditable, transparent voting system, so that there would be no question about 'stolen elections'. I think the UK has such a system. I think such a system would require paper ballots that register the name and other identifying information of the person who cast the ballot (with a tear-off section for how they actually voted); in-person voting, except for people living abroad and certifiable cases where people physically could not get to the polling place; some bi- or non-partisan body to dictate where polling places are and when they are to be open ... so that polling places can't be deliberately placed a long way from a particular area known to support one party; and maybe the requirement that voting day (or days?) be on, or be declared to be, national holidays.

These are actually small, although important, reforms.

I've thought a lot about some very much more fundamental, structural reform, that would draw people into face-to-face discussion with each other ... something like "Citizens' Assemblies", voluntary, with only consultative power ... something that would encourage and reward learning a bit about the issues, since you would be discussing them with others. (How many people even know the difference between the National Debt and the Deficit?)

Another idea: reward knowledge, the sort that every informed voter should have. With money. An annual 'Test Day', voluntary, with a test to be taken, the questions and answers made available in advance:

Example: how much money does the US government collect each year? Of the categories (1) Military, (2) Wages/Salaries for Civilian employees (3) etc ... what percentage is spent on each? What is the population of the US? What percent are adults? What percent voted last time? When was the Civil War? WWI? WWII? Korea? Vietnam? ...who did we fight in those wars. Who were our allies?

Make it multiple choice. Print the answers and questions in advance. 100 questions, you get a dollar for each correct answer. The questions and answers to be chosen by a bi-partisan team of academics. Where they can't agree, half the questions get chosen by R's, half by D's.

 

[leftwinger]

Got it. BadMac & gonewithwindDoug talk big game. But if PBLM is too difficult thay run like scalded Cats.

Useless BigMouth LW hacks tinker around edges as Country being sold off to CCP.

 

[francoHFW]

And ... "our marvelous legal system has arrested 600 people from your side and they haven't found a single person who's a provocateur."

Franco, guy, listen to yourself! The people who may have sent in the provocateurs, haven't found any!!! This is really self-parody. You think they would arrest themselves? Or bring charges against themselves, if they accidentally arrested one of their people?

Check out one Ray Epps. I read his testimony before the Congressional Committee, and it sounded reasonable to me, so I switched my tentative opinion on him.

But maybe I was wrong. Read about him here (the Independent is a left-leaning British daily newspaper):
[ Who is Ray Epps? The FBI’s Capitol riot figure who has not been charged ]

He was briefly head of the Oathkeepers in Arizona, over a decade ago. Then he just faded out. Friends of mine there, who were in the Oathkeepers then, say they don't know why he vanished ... as opposed to remaining a rank and file member.

As for FBI provocations, etc in the 60s-70s. Yes. It's how they smashed the Klan in Meridian, Mississippi. Probably through what was technically entrapment. But there was a kind of happy ending, in the life story of this remarkable man -- a testament to the power of religion to turn lives around:

[ Former Klansman Turned Christian Warns Churches to 'Wake Up' and Confront Hatred in Divided America ]

And of course they had people in the Left then. (Anyone interested in this subject should read Heavy Radicals,
[ Heavy Radicals - The FBI's Secret War on America's Maoi… ] )

Now ... I don't know that there were provocateurs in that crowd. But if there were, then of course their handlers would do everything they could to make sure they were not later identified as such.

And if there were, we should have been smart enough to thwart their plans. But 'smartness' has to be embodied in an organization. And that's what we lack.

like I said, if you are a GOP base voter and listen to right wing propaganda all the time, you believe an incredible amount of crap about conspiracies without any evidence, an incredibly anti American thing to do. you end up with a bunch of ignoramuses who have no respect for anything except for their fearless leader, an orange con man proven scumbag pervert... a baby mussolini. Worst thing that's ever happened to American politics is your propaganda and you. comprende? love you, sure you're a wonderful person but your politics are total Anti American garbage.... As Sinclair Lewis said basically, dictatorship will come to America wrapped in the flag and the Bible...

 

[francoHFW]

This is right on target.

Let's come up with a single issue that can unite the 'little people' across the political spectrum. Something that is actually achieveable.

What about campaign finance reform? (Even if it took a Constutional amendment.)
It's not a subject I know a lot about, but I think that in the US, big money plays way too much a role in politics. Maybe others here know more about it, and can post some relevant links we can all read, and then discuss in a separate thread.

Another issue, a bit trickier: Voting. It shouldn't be beyond the reach of man, for us to devise an extremely secure, auditable, transparent voting system, so that there would be no question about 'stolen elections'. I think the UK has such a system. I think such a system would require paper ballots that register the name and other identifying information of the person who cast the ballot (with a tear-off section for how they actually voted); in-person voting, except for people living abroad and certifiable cases where people physically could not get to the polling place; some bi- or non-partisan body to dictate where polling places are and when they are to be open ... so that polling places can't be deliberately placed a long way from a particular area known to support one party; and maybe the requirement that voting day (or days?) be on, or be declared to be, national holidays.

These are actually small, although important, reforms.

I've thought a lot about some very much more fundamental, structural reform, that would draw people into face-to-face discussion with each other ... something like "Citizens' Assemblies", voluntary, with only consultative power ... something that would encourage and reward learning a bit about the issues, since you would be discussing them with others. (How many people even know the difference between the National Debt and the Deficit?)

Another idea: reward knowledge, the sort that every informed voter should have. With money. An annual 'Test Day', voluntary, with a test to be taken, the questions and answers made available in advance:

Example: how much money does the US government collect each year? Of the categories (1) Military, (2) Wages/Salaries for Civilian employees (3) etc ... what percentage is spent on each? What is the population of the US? What percent are adults? What percent voted last time? When was the Civil War? WWI? WWII? Korea? Vietnam? ...who did we fight in those wars. Who were our allies?

Make it multiple choice. Print the answers and questions in advance. 100 questions, you get a dollar for each correct answer. The questions and answers to be chosen by a bi-partisan team of academics. Where they can't agree, half the questions get chosen by R's, half by D's.

or you could just stop voting for greedy lying GOP swine and vote for Democrats for crying out loud. It's the only thing we haven't tried in the last 50 years.... and what you are asking for is exactly what they keep saying they want. What the heck is wrong with people? LOL!

 

[Billiejeens]

Can ANY one post some baby step solutions for us average hard working Americans.
We should have the ability
to join together, to take back just a little of the power,
that is suppose to already belong to us.

We're you alive during The Trump Presidency?

 

[Doug1943]

like I said, if you are a GOP base voter and listen to right wing propaganda all the time, you believe an incredible amount of crap about conspiracies without any evidence, an incredibly anti American thing to do. you end up with a bunch of ignoramuses who have no respect for anything except for their fearless leader, an orange con man proven scumbag pervert... a baby mussolini. Worst thing that's ever happened to American politics is your propaganda and you. comprende love you sure you're a wonderful person but your politics are total Anti American garbage.... As Sinclair Lewis said basically, dictatorship will come to America wrapped in the flag and the Bible...

Okay, fine. Now what do you think about mobs breaking up conservative meetings?

 

[francoHFW]

Okay, fine. Now what do you think about mobs breaking up conservative meetings?

never happened. You talking about students? go ahead give me your stupid propaganda link... then you can tell me about the last time crazy people invaded the Capitol building and tried to overturn an election.

 

[francoHFW]

We're you alive during The Trump Presidency?

So what do you geniuses want to do? all I hear is the GOP **** about pedophile communist rioters or whatever LOL. what idiotic conspiracy are you two conniving about?

 

[francoHFW]

Got it. BadMac & gonewithwindDoug talk big game. But if PBLM is too difficult thay run like scalded Cats.

Useless BigMouth LW hacks tinker around edges as Country being sold off to CCP.

Too bad you have no evidence of any such thing...

 

[scruffy]

Is it weren't for the racist EC...the repubs would never be in the WH.

Stupid asinine leftard mudslinging. ^^^

Waycist! Wahhhh!

 

[scruffy]

Okay, fine. Now what do you think about mobs breaking up conservative meetings?

I think they're asking for trouble.

 

[Mac1958]

Fix what? The big one is $2T over-spending annually. How do you fix that?
Don't say TAX the RICH unless you can say HOW you would do that.
I know Franco and Hutch don't have a clue. You are the only hope for the LW mob.

Where would you confiscate $2T out of the economy w/o hurting the economy?
Since they won't cut Spending. How do you fix that?

I'm talking about fixing our political/electoral system.

And if you think I'm "LW", you don't know my politics.

 

[Mac1958]

OK, next problem. Increasing Violent Black or Brown Crime rates. ANTIFA, BLM riots all of 2020.
How do you fix that? DC won't stop it, they start bail funds for rioters.
Maybe States have to fix it?

No, that's a sociological/cultural issue. As was the Insurrection.

I don't think you understand what I'm talking about.

 

[Doug1943]

never happened. You talking about students? go ahead give me your stupid propaganda link... then you can tell me about the last time crazy people invaded the Capitol building and tried to overturn an election.

I've given you links.

Okay, once again, what do you think about this. I'm giving you a link to an article in a liberal magazine, the Atlantic, written by a liberal college professor, Peter Beinart.

A Violent Attack on Free Speech at Middlebury

Liberals must defend the right of conservative students to invite speakers of their choice, even if they find their views abhorrent.
By Peter Beinart

A Violent Attack on Free Speech at Middlebury

Liberals must defend the right of conservative students to invite speakers of their choice, even if they find their views abhorrent.

www.theatlantic.com

If you don't read very well, here's a video.


This incident was 'extreme' in the sense that there was serious violence directed at the speaker, Charles Murray. Usually, the leftist Brownshirts just disrupt the meeting by shouting and screaming.

By the way, that's what all the bullshit about Trump advocating violence is: leftists infiltrate his public meetings, start screaming and shouting, and get thrown out. Trump says some impolitic things about it.

But what would your side do, if we did that? How would I be treated, do you think, if I went into an AntiFa or BLM rally, and began screaming insults at the speaker? (Don't worry, I won't, I'm not suicidal.)

Anyway, please answer. Your own supporters want you to, because you're embarrassing them by flatly denying reality.

Either say our speakers deserve it, we shouldn't be allowed to say our terrible things publically -- which is what, i suspect, you really believe -- or say some anodyne thing like "all violence is bad", which is how leftists usually wriggle out of this issue.

Now .. ANSWER THE QUESTION. Violence against a conservative at Middlebury. What do you say about it?