The two ends of the political spectrum are killing us

[bigrebnc1775]

Mac. Check your privilege, buddy.

View attachment 765280

I know there is a problem and you're part of it

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well first, I've never called myself a moderate. You guys try that lie pretty much every day.

And second, here's an opportunity I've given you guys about fifty times now, literally: You're free to point out any left wing positions I hold on any issue.

I don't expect you to do that, of course. What I expect you to do is make ignorant assumptions merely because I think you've been fooled by a spectacularly obvious con man.

You're out of your league.

Every leftist issue you defend. Drop mic

 

[Billiejeens]

ignoramus. It's proven that the more you listen to your propaganda the more ignorant you become.

1. Trump says he joked about wanting Russian help in 2016. The facts tell ...​

   https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/05/politics/trump-emails-joke
   WebMar 5, 2019 · President Donald Trump recently claimed he was joking when he asked the Russians to hack Hillary…
   • Estimated Reading Time: 5 mins

You are insane you nonfuctional brain dead retard.

 

[Ringo]

The Dem and GOP Establishment work together
They don't hate each other
Their job is to make us hate each other
They work for the same bosses It doesn't matter which wing of the bird wins
Voting doesn't make this a democracy
We are not each other's enemy, they are the enemy.

 

[Doug1943]

It's a conspiracy theorist dream event everything the media has spewed out has been nothing but conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory. There was no I insurrection. Yet you believe that shit and want to work with the people who made up those conspiracies. You're a nut if you do.

Okay. Let's say the leftist groomers on the local School Board want to introduce a new topic into the Elementary Schools. Starting at age six, the kids will learn about 'Alternative Sexuality' -- why it's a good thing, why you should experiment with it when you get old enough, etc. Drag Queen story hour, etc. The full works.

And a lot of parents object. Some of the are conservatives, and some are not. Some are people who think 6 January was an 'insurrection'. (Such people could be Republicans, by the way.) Anyway, there they are.

So ... what should we do? Call a 'meeting for all concerned parents' to try to stop what the Groomers are doing? To talk about co ordinating our fight back, organizing a petition for a recall election, going to the school board meetings, etc.

That sounds like a good idea to me. But then ... you, and people like you turn up early to the meeting. You say, "We will not work with anyone who is not on the Right! We will not work with anyone who doesn't share our view of 6 January!"

And as parents begin to arrive at the meeting, you and your pals stand at the door, and question them: "What do you think about 6 January? Do you believe it was a government trap, or not? Do you support our beloved Donald Trump, or not? If you answer wrong, get lost!"

Who's the nut?

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Why can't our side learn some simple tactics???? Just a tiny bit of common sense is all I'm asking for.

 

[Mac1958]

Every leftist issue you defend. Drop mic

Name them. Drop mic.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Name them. Drop mic.

Everyone
Green energy

 

[Mac1958]

Everyone
Green energy

Wrong. I think they've made huge mistakes on green energy, pushing too hard too fast, not waiting for the technology to catch up, assuming too much, fighting oil too hard.

Next. Show me where I'm left wing on an issue. And when you can't, you'll keep claiming I'm left wing, because you guys love to attack out of arrogant ignorance.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Wrong. I think they've made huge mistakes on green energy, pushing too hard too fast, not waiting for the technology to catch up, assuming too much, fighting oil too hard.

Next. Show me where I'm left wing on an issue. And when you can't, you'll keep claiming I'm left wing, because you guys love to attack out of arrogant ignorance.

You can dance around all you want mr anti gun nut I've been here a long time I know who you argue with the most and what you defend.

 

[Mac1958]

You can dance around all you want mr anti gun nut I've been here a long time I know who you argue with the most and what you defend.

I'm not anti-gun. I agree with the phrase "if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns".

See? (I'm sure you don't). You poor souls base everything on the fact that I think you have been fooled by the most obvious con man this country has ever seen.

So that one (1) fact makes you think you know my politics. You don't. Obviously.

I know I'm wasting my time. But I do appreciate you proving my points for me.

 

[Doug1943]

The Dem and GOP Establishment work together
They don't hate each other
Their job is to make us hate each other
They work for the same bosses It doesn't matter which wing of the bird wins
Voting doesn't make this a democracy
We are not each other's enemy, they are the enemy.

Whoa!!! Okay!!! Now you're talking! You're a Starr!

I could get a thousand conservatives to agree with statement in half an hour -- if they didn't know the politics of the person who wrote it.
We could sum it up as: "Workers of all parties, Unite!"

But ... it's fine to make abstract statements like this. It's putting them into practice that's the problem. But perhaps we can solve this problem, or take a small step towards doing so ... a little step towards unity of the people at the bottom against our masters.

So, let's see where we agree on concrete issues. If we don't agree on an issue, we can't work together on it, obviously.

(1) What do you think about the war in Ukraine?

Do you support one side ? Or do you have the position some socialists do (spelled out in detail by a Leftist group, here:
[ The Peasant Uprising in the Russian Revolution of 1917 ]

(2) What about Free Trade, and Open Borders (which is free trade in labor-power).

For decades, the Republican Party was actively in favor of the first, and passively in favor of the second. The Democrats, not so much. The Republican Donor Class wanted to be able to close its refrigerator plants in Indiana and send them to Mexico or China, where labor costs were a fraction of those in America; and the corporate farmers and owners of chicken-gutting plants wanted to bring the low-cost labor here, and 'illegals' were perfect for that.

Trump upended all that, which explains a large part of the Establishment hysteria about him, dutifully repeated by some gullible Leftists. But what is your position on these issues?

(3) How about Free Speech?

It used to be an abolute shibboleth of the non-Stalinist Left. Of the Right, not so much. But now things have reversed. We get our meetings closed down by mobs of Leftwing students, and our parades attacked by Anti-Fa. We've had our people murdered in cold blood by an AntiFa supporter, while the others laughed and cheered when they got the news. It will be hard for our people to work with your side, if you want to see us beaten up by mobs or even killed.

What do you think? Are you for the Right of Free Speech for conservatives? (One person on the Left here is in favor, bless his heart, the others dodge the issue or remain silent.
They're clearly happy for my side to be suppressed by mobs._But you're not a liberal .. you must have a worked-out position on this.)

In sum: people in the 'base' of the Republican Party have, over the last couple of decades, come into contradiction with their leaders -- an 'antagonistic contradiction', to use someone else's terminology. In some ways, this has put them closer to the traditional views of the Left -- on war, on free trade, on free speech.

Maybe we have some basis for co operation on these, and maybe other, issues. From co operation might come the realization, as Ringo says, that the masses of people, the ordinary Americans, "are not each other's enemy".

And from that might come ... who knows?

But first we need to be clear what our potential partners believe about some important things.

Over to you!

 

[Doug1943]

I'm not anti-gun. I agree with the phrase "if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns".

See? (I'm sure you don't). You poor souls base everything on the fact that I think you have been fooled by the most obvious con man this country has ever seen.

So that one (1) fact makes you think you know my politics. You don't. Obviously.

I know I'm wasting my time. But I do appreciate you proving my points for me.

So, Mac, what's your position on guns?

Should I be able to own an AR15, or not?

Should I be able to get together with some like-minded friends and practice using our AR15s -- in simulated circumstances where we might need to ... doing fire-and-maneuver, etc. Or would you want us prosecuted as a "private army", as many Leftists would.

How about concealed carry?

 

[Mac1958]

So, Mac, what's your position on guns?

Should I be able to own an AR15, or not?

Should I be able to get together with some like-minded friends and practice using our AR15s -- in simulated circumstances where we might need to ... doing fire-and-maneuver, etc. Or would you want us prosecuted as a "private army", as many Leftists would.

How about concealed carry?

I think most of our problems/issues are culturally-based, and this is no exception.

First, I just can't get past the saying "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". And it's screamingly obvious that the weekly slaughter we see on the streets of major cities are not perpetrated by people who would be affected by gun laws.

Second, I do think that the burgeoning DEMAND for guns we're seeing is culturally - sociologically - politically based, as many on the Right feel they have to stock up for some upcoming invasion of the Chinese or Hitler or Satan or whatever. So I don't look at guns, including AR15 or CC laws, as being a big deal.

But third, I disagree with the hard Right when they bristle at comprehensive background checks and stronger national record-keeping. That is a perfectly reasonable request, and it seems to me that the hard Right thinks that giving a goddamn inch is equal to complete surrender. Because that's just paranoia talking. Bend a little. You won't break.

So, as with virtually every issue, I have reasonable agreements and disagreements with both ends here.

 

[Doug1943]

It's a conspiracy theorist dream event everything the media has spewed out has been nothing but conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory. There was no I insurrection. Yet you believe that shit and want to work with the people who made up those conspiracies. You're a nut if you do.

Okay. What do you think happened on January 6th? And by the way, if you think "I believe that shit", whatever "that shit" is, then you clearly haven't read what I've written about it, in arguments with Leftists.

Over a month ago, I started a thread to get people to write letters of support to the Jan 6th prisoners. I linked to something called the Patriot Mail Project, which has the names and addresses (in prison) of the jailed protestors and is encouraging people to write to them. I've been posting that link everywhere I can, Tweeting it, calling the attention of all patriots to it. (Because that site also -- like almost every poltiical site on the Web, Left or Right, also solicits donations, some Leftist was able to run sobbing to the Mods and get my link deleted.)

Here's the link, and my OP

Support January 6th Prisoners!

The Jan 6 whatever-you-call-it (more than a riot, less than an insurrection) was a bonehead stunt and an enormous gift to the Left, a gift that will keep on giving for years. It's what happens when you have a movement, but not an organization. Your demonstrations are vulnerable to crazies and...

www.usmessageboard.com

The Jan 6 whatever-you-call-it (more than a riot, less than an insurrection) was a bonehead stunt and an enormous gift to the Left, a gift that will keep on giving for years.

It's what happens when you have a movement, but not an organization. Your demonstrations are vulnerable to crazies and provocateurs. Our demonstrations in the future must be stewarded by men who are properly trained and equipped to defend our meetings, and to deal with troublemakers.

However, these people are our own. They genuinely believed the election had been stolen, and got caught up in this crazy, pointless action. People don't act sensibly when they're in a crowd. But they're ours. So patriots must support them.

A good way to do this would be to send a letter or postcard to a prisoner. You can get their names and addresses here:
Deleted link after reviewing as it goes to a site for donations, not in keeping with board Rules.

Jan 6th should never have happened. I am sure there were provocateurs trying to get our people to storm the Capitol. Ray Epps? Maybe. But if not him, certainly many others. It's an absolutely standard police technique, going back to Pontius Pilate and earlier.

And I am sure there were 'sincere' boneheads and crazies who were happy to put their heads right into the noose. (I've wasted hours arguing with these fools, the kind who post ruff-tuff threats about how we have to hang all the traitors, blah blah blah. Usually just hot air, except occasionally a few loons -- otherwise known as Boogaloo Bois -- actually go out and turn words into deeds and kill policemen. )

And then there are the Russian trolls, the glavset operators, trying to incite violence. They're not hard to spot: their English will be grammatically perfect, unlike that of the hot-air merchants. But they restrain their presence to online ops.

We had two good organizations -- the Three Percenters and the Oathkeepers -- well, at least with thousands of good people in them, whatever deficiencies their leadership had. Both destroyed.

The Proud Boys had promise too ... and now all these groups' leaders are in prison, along with hundreds of other patriots. Millions of dollars have been and will be transferred from patriot wallets to lawyers. Tens of thousands of hours of our energy now has to go into defending our people.

People in crowds lose control of their ability to think coolly and rationally. I would be willing to bet that if you had asked the people who were among the 6 January protestors who went into the Capitol, beforehand, "Hey, do you think it would be a good idea to invade the Capitol, smashing through police lines if necessary, and then ransack the place? Don't you think that will make those Congressmen change their vote on certifying the election?" -- 99% would have said "No". (And the other 1% would have radioed their field commander to find out what to say.)

But get in a crowd, get a few crazies and a few provocateurs in the lead ... in an ambiguous situation where at first they're letting people in .."Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly ..." ... with most people not sure whether or not what they're involved in is illegal -- is there a 'Visitor's Gallery' in Congress that we could pack with protestors, legally? Who knows? -- and, bingo, the trap snaps shut.

And it doesn't matter how much provocation there was planned beforehand. Or whether the infiltrators and provocateurs just improvised and took advantage of this -- for them -- golden opportunity to give our side a karate blow to the neck.

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE FALLEN INTO THE TRAP.

I've argued over and over: we have to learn from our mistakes. Big crowds in an emotional situation are duck soup, easy targets for the Left.

What we need is a national organization of men trained and practiced and equipped to marshall our demonstrations, to be stewards. (The French, who have far more experience than we do in these sorts of things, have something called a 'service d'ordre' -- each mass organization has one.)

We need something like this. They form a ring around our demonstrations. They are prepared to deal with AntiFa counter-demonstrators. (Body armor, helmets, special reinforced protest signs that can stop thrown objects, bear spray, first-aid squads, 'snatch squads' , comms and intel teams to coordinate things... it's all been worked out.

No guns, at the moment. Anyone who proposes bringing firearms to our demonstrations, other than legal concealed carry that stays concealed [and in really tense situations, even that is problematic -- in any case, it's a tactical decision], is a policeman/infiltrator or a brass-bound fool. Our movement has plenty of both.)

If we had had something like that in Washington, they could have dealt with the provocateurs and crazies.

We didn't, and paid -- and are paying and will go on paying -- the price.

So we had better start organizing something like this. Some people who seem to know what they're doing are the former Oathkeepers in Arizona, here:
[ HTTPS//YCPT.org] and their national organizing committee, here: [https://USCPT.org]

Some people evidently think that sitting at home on their behinds trading kindergarten-level insults with Lefties on line is fighting the good fight. It's not.

 

[sartre play]

We all get too self important sometimes.
We could try and remember that some real effort is needed
If we do not want the politicians to keep us divided against our own better interests

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'm not anti-gun. I agree with the phrase "if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns".

See? (I'm sure you don't). You poor souls base everything on the fact that I think you have been fooled by the most obvious con man this country has ever seen.

So that one (1) fact makes you think you know my politics. You don't. Obviously.

I know I'm wasting my time. But I do appreciate you proving my points for me.

Liar.

 

[francoHFW]

You are insane you nonfuctional brain dead retard.

read it, ignoramus. you might actually learn something factual for once.

 

[francoHFW]

Okay. What do you think happened on January 6th? And by the way, if you think "I believe that shit", whatever "that shit" is, then you clearly haven't read what I've written about it, in arguments with Leftists.

Over a month ago, I started a thread to get people to write letters of support to the Jan 6th prisoners. I linked to something called the Patriot Mail Project, which has the names and addresses (in prison) of the jailed protestors and is encouraging people to write to them. I've been posting that link everywhere I can, Tweeting it, calling the attention of all patriots to it. (Because that site also -- like almost every poltiical site on the Web, Left or Right, also solicits donations, some Leftist was able to run sobbing to the Mods and get my link deleted.)

Here's the link, and my OP

Support January 6th Prisoners!

The Jan 6 whatever-you-call-it (more than a riot, less than an insurrection) was a bonehead stunt and an enormous gift to the Left, a gift that will keep on giving for years. It's what happens when you have a movement, but not an organization. Your demonstrations are vulnerable to crazies and...

www.usmessageboard.com

Jan 6th should never have happened. I am sure there were provocateurs trying to get our people to storm the Capitol. Ray Epps? Maybe. But if not him, certainly many others. It's an absolutely standard police technique, going back to Pontius Pilate and earlier.

And I am sure there were 'sincere' boneheads and crazies who were happy to put their heads right into the noose. (I've wasted hours arguing with these fools, the kind who post ruff-tuff threats about how we have to hang all the traitors, blah blah blah. Usually just hot air, except occasionally a few loons -- otherwise known as Boogaloo Bois -- actually go out and turn words into deeds and kill policemen. )

And then there are the Russian trolls, the glavset operators, trying to incite violence. They're not hard to spot: their English will be grammatically perfect, unlike that of the hot-air merchants. But they restrain their presence to online ops.

We had two good organizations -- the Three Percenters and the Oathkeepers -- well, at least with thousands of good people in them, whatever deficiencies their leadership had. Both destroyed.

The Proud Boys had promise too ... and now all these groups' leaders are in prison, along with hundreds of other patriots. Millions of dollars have been and will be transferred from patriot wallets to lawyers. Tens of thousands of hours of our energy now has to go into defending our people.

People in crowds lose control of their ability to think coolly and rationally. I would be willing to bet that if you had asked the people who were among the 6 January protestors who went into the Capitol, beforehand, "Hey, do you think it would be a good idea to invade the Capitol, smashing through police lines if necessary, and then ransack the place? Don't you think that will make those Congressmen change their vote on certifying the election?" -- 99% would have said "No". (And the other 1% would have radioed their field commander to find out what to say.)

But get in a crowd, get a few crazies and a few provocateurs in the lead ... in an ambiguous situation where at first they're letting people in .."Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly ..." ... with most people not sure whether or not what they're involved in is illegal -- is there a 'Visitor's Gallery' in Congress that we could pack with protestors, legally? Who knows? -- and, bingo, the trap snaps shut.

And it doesn't matter how much provocation there was planned beforehand. Or whether the infiltrators and provocateurs just improvised and took advantage of this -- for them -- golden opportunity to give our side a karate blow to the neck.

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE FALLEN INTO THE TRAP.

I've argued over and over: we have to learn from our mistakes. Big crowds in an emotional situation are duck soup, easy targets for the Left.

What we need is a national organization of men trained and practiced and equipped to marshall our demonstrations, to be stewards. (The French, who have far more experience than we do in these sorts of things, have something called a 'service d'ordre' -- each mass organization has one.)

We need something like this. They form a ring around our demonstrations. They are prepared to deal with AntiFa counter-demonstrators. (Body armor, helmets, special reinforced protest signs that can stop thrown objects, bear spray, first-aid squads, 'snatch squads' , comms and intel teams to coordinate things... it's all been worked out.

No guns, at the moment. Anyone who proposes bringing firearms to our demonstrations, other than legal concealed carry that stays concealed [and in really tense situations, even that is problematic -- in any case, it's a tactical decision], is a policeman/infiltrator or a brass-bound fool. Our movement has plenty of both.)

If we had had something like that in Washington, they could have dealt with the provocateurs and crazies.

We didn't, and paid -- and are paying and will go on paying -- the price.

So we had better start organizing something like this. Some people who seem to know what they're doing are the former Oathkeepers in Arizona, here:
[ HTTPS//YCPT.org] and their national organizing committee, here: [United States County Preparedness Teams]

Some people evidently think that sitting at home on their behinds trading kindergarten-level insults with Lefties on line is fighting the good fight. It's not.

Too bad you have no actual evidence of any of these left conspiracies and false flag operations. None.

You brainwashed functional morons were listening to the Orange Clown telling you to go to the capital and overturn an election.

 

[francoHFW]

kinda like bidens brain...doesnt work

If all you get is the hateful American divisive garbage on the GOP bs network. it's amazing how much mileage your scumbag pundits get out of the reminders of his stuttering problem et cetera. try watching an actual interview instead of your crap about how he does no interviews LOL. poor America.

 

[francoHFW]

Read his post very carefully he uses the leftists talking points like a champ

Ohh he has some confluence with reality LOL? better steer clear