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The truth about Truman’s bombing Japan

harmonica

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No it wasn't a war crime because Japan was using those cities as manufacturing hubs for their war against the USA which is why not one court ever went forward with a case.

War is hell. Yes if you want to put your weapons industries in close proximity to schools or places of worship and put your people at risk, especially in an era well before any smart bombings, they are at risk of dying from the situation you put them in.

So no it wasn't a war crime.


And you said "defenseless cities"... Oh really. The Japanese army air service was in operation defending Japan until the day of their surrender. The entire reason more pinpoint bombing wasn't used during daylight hours was Japans night fighter force was weaker and anti-aircraft fire was less accurate at night. Literally the definition of defended targets.


What you are doing is lying to create your myth by trying to rewrite the past. PLEASE, stop lying ok bud? It doesn't help your cause when you need to lie to defend your belief.




Yes, I do feel bad for a child when a terrorist uses them as a human shield. No I do not think we should let the terrorists keep killing American troops because they have human shields.



Like Hirohito himself said “I feel sorry for Hiroshima citizens, but it couldn’t be averted"
Oh brother that is most murderous of you. So mass murder of innocent civilians on the scale of Stalin and Hilter is okay, because their government forces them to build armaments. Damn. That’s nuts.

I would guess if the shoe were on the other foot and Japan or Germany obliterated cities like Detroit and other American cities where our war machines were built, you would consider that just fine.

No it never should have come to Japan putting civilians in harms way by drafting them into the war effort.

90% of the Japanese war production was done in unmarked workshops and homes which were widely dispersed within residential areas in cities. That's horrible. You want those leaders given their chance to get away scott free who caused the deaths of millions?
So the Americans who were in the war machine, shouldn’t have been???

Think!!!

Lol no. We were not the powers starting wwii to conquest. That's not a reality.

Wow you are a loopy one. Still no response to the facts against your ranting huh? Figured.
You don’t know anything but what the lying state has told you. As such, you are clueless.

FDR started WWII. Look it up. Get informed.
you are as insane as Jussie Smollett
 

SandSquid

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Oh brother that is most murderous of you. So mass murder of innocent civilians on the scale of Stalin and Hilter is okay, because their government forces them to build armaments. Damn. That’s nuts.

I would guess if the shoe were on the other foot and Japan or Germany obliterated cities like Detroit and other American cities where our war machines were built, you would consider that just fine.

No it never should have come to Japan putting civilians in harms way by drafting them into the war effort.

90% of the Japanese war production was done in unmarked workshops and homes which were widely dispersed within residential areas in cities. That's horrible. You want those leaders given their chance to get away scott free who caused the deaths of millions?
So the Americans who were in the war machine, shouldn’t have been???

Think!!!

Lol no. We were not the powers starting wwii to conquest. That's not a reality.

Wow you are a loopy one. Still no response to the facts against your ranting huh? Figured.
You don’t know anything but what the lying state has told you. As such, you are clueless.

FDR started WWII. Look it up. Get informed.
you are as insane as Jussie Smollett

I've seen his story. Colonel Sanders led the first charge to expand his chicken empire into peaceful Germany. Obama used his time travel machine funded by Soros and Koch to rewrite history and sent an actor back in time to portray Adolf Hitler. Used him to make Germany look bad and then transported him and Eva Braun out of the bunker once their mission was complete, and after plastic surgery we know them today as Brad Pitt and Caitlyn Jenner. Lol
 

RetiredGySgt

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No it wasn't a war crime because Japan was using those cities as manufacturing hubs for their war against the USA which is why not one court ever went forward with a case.

War is hell. Yes if you want to put your weapons industries in close proximity to schools or places of worship and put your people at risk, especially in an era well before any smart bombings, they are at risk of dying from the situation you put them in.

So no it wasn't a war crime.


And you said "defenseless cities"... Oh really. The Japanese army air service was in operation defending Japan until the day of their surrender. The entire reason more pinpoint bombing wasn't used during daylight hours was Japans night fighter force was weaker and anti-aircraft fire was less accurate at night. Literally the definition of defended targets.


What you are doing is lying to create your myth by trying to rewrite the past. PLEASE, stop lying ok bud? It doesn't help your cause when you need to lie to defend your belief.




Yes, I do feel bad for a child when a terrorist uses them as a human shield. No I do not think we should let the terrorists keep killing American troops because they have human shields.



Like Hirohito himself said “I feel sorry for Hiroshima citizens, but it couldn’t be averted"
Oh brother that is most murderous of you. So mass murder of innocent civilians on the scale of Stalin and Hilter is okay, because their government forces them to build armaments. Damn. That’s nuts.

I would guess if the shoe were on the other foot and Japan or Germany obliterated cities like Detroit and other American cities where our war machines were built, you would consider that just fine.

No it never should have come to Japan putting civilians in harms way by drafting them into the war effort.

90% of the Japanese war production was done in unmarked workshops and homes which were widely dispersed within residential areas in cities. That's horrible. You want those leaders given their chance to get away scott free who caused the deaths of millions?
So the Americans who were in the war machine, shouldn’t have been???

Think!!!

Lol no. We were not the powers starting wwii to conquest. That's not a reality.

Wow you are a loopy one. Still no response to the facts against your ranting huh? Figured.
You don’t know anything but what the lying state has told you. As such, you are clueless.

FDR started WWII. Look it up. Get informed.
Good God YOU REALLY ARE a MORON .
 
OP
gipper

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Oh brother that is most murderous of you. So mass murder of innocent civilians on the scale of Stalin and Hilter is okay, because their government forces them to build armaments. Damn. That’s nuts.

I would guess if the shoe were on the other foot and Japan or Germany obliterated cities like Detroit and other American cities where our war machines were built, you would consider that just fine.

No it never should have come to Japan putting civilians in harms way by drafting them into the war effort.

90% of the Japanese war production was done in unmarked workshops and homes which were widely dispersed within residential areas in cities. That's horrible. You want those leaders given their chance to get away scott free who caused the deaths of millions?
So the Americans who were in the war machine, shouldn’t have been???

Think!!!

Lol no. We were not the powers starting wwii to conquest. That's not a reality.

Wow you are a loopy one. Still no response to the facts against your ranting huh? Figured.
You don’t know anything but what the lying state has told you. As such, you are clueless.

FDR started WWII. Look it up. Get informed.
Good God YOU REALLY ARE a MORON .
LOL. Says the blood thirsty mass murdering statist dummy.

Uncle says jump. You jump.

Can’t fix stupid.
 

SandSquid

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No it never should have come to Japan putting civilians in harms way by drafting them into the war effort.

90% of the Japanese war production was done in unmarked workshops and homes which were widely dispersed within residential areas in cities. That's horrible. You want those leaders given their chance to get away scott free who caused the deaths of millions?
So the Americans who were in the war machine, shouldn’t have been???

Think!!!

Lol no. We were not the powers starting wwii to conquest. That's not a reality.

Wow you are a loopy one. Still no response to the facts against your ranting huh? Figured.
You don’t know anything but what the lying state has told you. As such, you are clueless.

FDR started WWII. Look it up. Get informed.
Good God YOU REALLY ARE a MORON .
LOL. Says the blood thirsty mass murdering statist dummy.

Uncle says jump. You jump.

Can’t fix stupid.
Lol. You are the one trying to pass off the Colonel Sanders vs the nice Nazi theory kiddo.

Have fun!
 
OP
gipper

gipper

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So the Americans who were in the war machine, shouldn’t have been???

Think!!!

Lol no. We were not the powers starting wwii to conquest. That's not a reality.

Wow you are a loopy one. Still no response to the facts against your ranting huh? Figured.
You don’t know anything but what the lying state has told you. As such, you are clueless.

FDR started WWII. Look it up. Get informed.
Good God YOU REALLY ARE a MORON .
LOL. Says the blood thirsty mass murdering statist dummy.

Uncle says jump. You jump.

Can’t fix stupid.
Lol. You are the one trying to pass off the Colonel Sanders vs the nice Nazi theory kiddo.

Have fun!
Yes the truth is tough for low IQ statists to accept.

Time to man up boys.
 

RetiredGySgt

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FDR did not get Hitler to declare war against the US nor did he force japan to sneak attack Pearl Harbor. Further at ABSOLUTELY no time did the Government of Japan offer to surrender.
 

Unkotare

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FDR was a bloodthirsty racist who had NO intention of allowing the war to end before he could try out his new toy on a civilian population. He very deliberately ignored rather than pursued possible avenues to peace under the same conditions we ultimately accepted anyway. That this meant prolonging the war at the cost of more American lives apparently meant nothing to him.
 

SandSquid

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FDR was a bloodthirsty racist who had NO intention of allowing the war to end before he could try out his new toy on a civilian population. He very deliberately ignored rather than pursued possible avenues to peace under the same conditions we ultimately accepted anyway. That this meant prolonging the war at the cost of more American lives apparently meant nothing to him.

Wait, so you are saying the US offered an offer to surrender. And Japans only avenue in their response was total war. Women and children fighting to their last breath. Training kids to be suicide bombers. And after the bombs they accepted the surrender which Hirohito himself said ended the war.

What fake reality are you talking about there bud?
 

Unkotare

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FDR was a bloodthirsty racist who had NO intention of allowing the war to end before he could try out his new toy on a civilian population. He very deliberately ignored rather than pursued possible avenues to peace under the same conditions we ultimately accepted anyway. That this meant prolonging the war at the cost of more American lives apparently meant nothing to him.

Wait, so you are saying the US offered an offer to surrender. And Japans only avenue in their response was total war. Women and children fighting to their last breath. Training kids to be suicide bombers. And after the bombs they accepted the surrender which Hirohito himself said ended the war.

What fake reality are you talking about there bud?

You’re not a strong reader, are you? And I guess you never studied History in enough depth to understand propaganda.
 

RetiredGySgt

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FDR was a bloodthirsty racist who had NO intention of allowing the war to end before he could try out his new toy on a civilian population. He very deliberately ignored rather than pursued possible avenues to peace under the same conditions we ultimately accepted anyway. That this meant prolonging the war at the cost of more American lives apparently meant nothing to him.

Wait, so you are saying the US offered an offer to surrender. And Japans only avenue in their response was total war. Women and children fighting to their last breath. Training kids to be suicide bombers. And after the bombs they accepted the surrender which Hirohito himself said ended the war.

What fake reality are you talking about there bud?

You’re not a strong reader, are you? And I guess you never studied History in enough depth to understand propaganda.
Again for the truly SLOW and STUPID.... AT NO TIME did the Japanese Government offer to surrender.
 

SandSquid

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FDR was a bloodthirsty racist who had NO intention of allowing the war to end before he could try out his new toy on a civilian population. He very deliberately ignored rather than pursued possible avenues to peace under the same conditions we ultimately accepted anyway. That this meant prolonging the war at the cost of more American lives apparently meant nothing to him.

Wait, so you are saying the US offered an offer to surrender. And Japans only avenue in their response was total war. Women and children fighting to their last breath. Training kids to be suicide bombers. And after the bombs they accepted the surrender which Hirohito himself said ended the war.

What fake reality are you talking about there bud?

You’re not a strong reader, are you? And I guess you never studied History in enough depth to understand propaganda.

You don't need propoganda. I mean besides from their own mouths we have their cabinet votes on peace. We have their leaders talking of training people for the invasion.

We literally have the Japanese prime ministers public response to the Potsdam Declaration from the Allies...

"My thinking is that the joint declaration is virtually the same as the earlier declaration. The government of Japan does not consider it having any crucial value. We simply mokusatsu suru. The only alternative for us is to be determined to continue our fight to the end"

And their Foreign minister Togo saying " "Although it is apparent that there will be more casualties on both sides in case the war is prolonged, we will stand as united against the enemy if the enemy forcibly demands our unconditional surrender."

Sorry, you can't rewrite history bud.
 

Unkotare

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FDR was a bloodthirsty racist who had NO intention of allowing the war to end before he could try out his new toy on a civilian population. He very deliberately ignored rather than pursued possible avenues to peace under the same conditions we ultimately accepted anyway. That this meant prolonging the war at the cost of more American lives apparently meant nothing to him.

Wait, so you are saying the US offered an offer to surrender. And Japans only avenue in their response was total war. Women and children fighting to their last breath. Training kids to be suicide bombers. And after the bombs they accepted the surrender which Hirohito himself said ended the war.

What fake reality are you talking about there bud?

You’re not a strong reader, are you? And I guess you never studied History in enough depth to understand propaganda.

You don't need propoganda. I mean besides from their own mouths we have their cabinet votes on peace. We have their leaders talking of training people for the invasion.

We literally have the Japanese prime ministers public response to the Potsdam Declaration from the Allies...

"My thinking is that the joint declaration is virtually the same as the earlier declaration. The government of Japan does not consider it having any crucial value. We simply mokusatsu suru. The only alternative for us is to be determined to continue our fight to the end"

And their Foreign minister Togo saying " "Although it is apparent that there will be more casualties on both sides in case the war is prolonged, we will stand as united against the enemy if the enemy forcibly demands our unconditional surrender."

Sorry, you can't rewrite history bud.





There is no point in reading if you don’t understand what the words mean.
 

LA RAM FAN

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Americans need to come to the realization that the bombings of civilians was really mass murder, not unlike what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty of.

Great column on the subject.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan, Reconsidered
By Alan Mosley
Mises.org

January 2, 2019

Russia’s move, in fact, compelled the Japanese to consider unconditional surrender; until then, they were only open to a conditional surrender that left their Emperor Hirohito some dignity and protections from war-crimes trials. Ward concludes that, as in the European theatre, Truman didn’t beat Japan; Stalin did.

Harry Truman never expressed regret publicly over his decision to use the atomic bombs. However, he did order an independent study on the state of the war effort leading up to August of 1945, and the strategic value of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In 1946, the U.S. Bombing Survey published its findings, which concluded as follows: “Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.” This is an intensive condemnation of Truman’s decision, seeing as Russia did enter the war, and that plans for an invasion had been developed.

As Timothy P. Carney writes for the Washington Examiner, the fog of war can be a tricky thing. But if we’re forced to side with Truman, or Eisenhower and the other dissenting military leaders, the Eisenhower position isn’t merely valid; it actually aligns better with some fundamental American values. Given all the uncertainty, both at the time and with modern historical revisionism, it’s better to look to principle rather than fortune-telling. One principle that should be near the top of everyone’s list is this: it’s wrong to target civilians with weapons of mass destruction. The deliberate killing of innocent men, women, and children by the hundreds of thousands cannot be justified under any circumstances, much less the ambiguous ones Truman encountered. Whether his decision was motivated by indignation toward Japanese “ pigheadedness” or concern for his troops, Truman’s use of such devastating weapons against non-combatants should not be excused. Americans must strive for complete and honest analysis of the past (and present) conflicts. And if she is to remain true to her own ideals, America must strive for more noble and moral ends—in all conflicts, domestic and foreign—guided by our most cherished first principles, such as the Golden Rule. At the very least, Americans should not try so hard to justify mass murder.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com
One of the best threads in the history section.
 

elektra

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A sad revisionist point of view that relies on President Eisenhower's conflicting statements after the fact. I think we have put it to rest, that Eisenhower said a couple of different things and made claims about things he told Stimson in which Stimson never acknowledged and actually said the opposite of. It appears that Eisenhower wrote two scenarios of his meeting with Stimson.

Eisenhower claims he was told of the Atomic bomb while that was a secret that was kept from the Vice President of the USA.

Hardly is Eisenhower credible in light of his conflicting statements and the secrecy of the bomb. Even General MacArthur acknowledges he was not told of the Bomb and Major General was the Commander of the United States Army Forces of the Far East.
 

elektra

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Values, the article references values.

the Eisenhower position isn’t merely valid; it actually aligns better with some fundamental American values.

Okay, American Values. Our lives are more important than the lives of others. That is an American Value. Our Soldiers, taken prisoner and thus helpless, dying in and around Nagasaki and Hiroshima deserved to be valued higher than the Japanese wives who worked in the factories of war. In the shipyards. Japanese wives who fed and comforted the japanese guards who were killing and torturing our men who were prisoners under the worst conditions imagined.

Yes, our values, that we should win a war we did not start with the least amount of lives lost. Our lives in consideration first and foremost.

The author is an idiot bringing up values as a reason not to drop the atomic bombs.
 

AZrailwhale

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There is no point in reading if you don’t understand what the words mean.
We understand the words, you don’t. Unconditional surrender was the official policy agreed to by the three major allied powers. Even if FDR had wanted to, he lacked the power to over ride that agreement. Even if the US and UK had wanted to accept a conditional surrender, Stalin wouldn’t have. He wanted the territory he could conquer in a war with Japan.
 

Unkotare

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We understand the words, you don’t. Unconditional surrender was the official policy agreed to by the three major allied powers. Even if FDR had wanted to, he lacked the power to over ride that agreement. ....
Yet in the end the terms we finally agreed to were exactly the ones being sought.
 

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