The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

but they serve joe and his fairytale book

Do you serve Paul, or Christ whom He preached?

Why do you presume we serve our fellow servants and not Christ whom is taught by them?

You still havent told me what is incorrect in the Book of Mormon.

If you compare joe to paul, you are serving joe.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Answer the question is this true? Mormons must believe that Joseph Smith was the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator -- the means through which the "true Gospel" was restored to the earth. You cannot become a Mormon and doubt the words of Smith! "Latter-day Saints revere Joseph Smith as a prophet in the tradition of biblical prophets like Moses and Isaiah. Church members believe that his doctrinal teachings and instructions concerning the Church's organization resulted from divine revelation, not his own learning." ("From Farm Boy to Prophet," The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints).

Notice how I answer your question right away. Yes we believe all of that!

 

[Truthspeaker]

I have read the Book of Mormon, and I think Joseph Smith is underappreciated in relationship to it. The normal ways of evaluating him are the following: either (1) God revealed it, so JS doesn't matter at all -- God could have revealed it to the fellow in the mail room who thinks comic book characters are real persons; or (2) Smith was a fraud who created it, and we look at him as a creep rather than an artist. I believe the BoM to be a wonderful narrative, an original piece of American religious literature, but not God's revelation of timeless truths brought to the world again by a boy prophet.

Fair enough. But I do believe it. See now how nice we can be to each other?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Answer the question is this true? Mormons must believe that Joseph Smith was the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator -- the means through which the "true Gospel" was restored to the earth. You cannot become a Mormon and doubt the words of Smith! "Latter-day Saints revere Joseph Smith as a prophet in the tradition of biblical prophets like Moses and Isaiah. Church members believe that his doctrinal teachings and instructions concerning the Church's organization resulted from divine revelation, not his own learning." ("From Farm Boy to Prophet," The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints).

Other than the "true Gospel" part, Id say is fair. The truth is he restored the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Priesthood after the Holy Order of the Son of God, The Church of Jesus Christ, the keys, gifts, powers, authority to act in the name of christ.

I would invite you to learn for yourself. If you are confident in your beliefs you have nothing to fear from reading the Book of Mormon and asking God whether it's true or not.

So i've told the truth in all i've posted.

I see your thinly veiled attempt at being witty.
We actually do believe Joseph had the true gospel revealed to him.

 

[Truthspeaker]

So i've told the truth in all i've posted.

Obviously not. But you may have been partly correct in a number of your posts.

I've told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Hey that's my line!

 

[Truthspeaker]

Because everything i've posted relates to mormons praising that con joe, what i posted was all truth.

That doesnt make any sense. How does acknowledging an Apostle or Prophet somehow take away from Christ?

Because JS was not an apostle or prophet like Peter or Paul or the others of the New Testament?

What makes an apostle to you? Why do the ancient apostles qualify but not Smith?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Is it true you cant be alone when talking to someone about mormonism? I mean you have to have another mormon with you.

I think what you are referring to here is the rule that missionaries have when on their mission. We are sent two by two and the missionaries are not to be alone ever because of supervision and safety.

 

[Eightball]

That doesnt make any sense. How does acknowledging an Apostle or Prophet somehow take away from Christ?

Because JS was not an apostle or prophet like Peter or Paul or the others of the New Testament?

What makes an apostle to you? Why do the ancient apostles qualify but not Smith?

Is as obvious as your proboscis between your eyes.

Smith absolutely fullfills the required statistics of a "false prophet".

These visions he had in N.Y. as a young man are just his own mental gymnastics.

Nowadays, he'd be committed to a mental hospital.

The bible provides all that mankind needs to have a relationship with God, through giving one's life to Christ as Savior and Lord.

The Book of Mormon is filled with plagarism from the King James of Smith's day, plus his wild, mentally touched and manipulative imagination.

The Christian world does not need Mormonism to enjoy a true relationship with God through Jesus Christ. In fact the world doesn't need Mormonism at all, as it is a false religion, that leads many true Christians into uneffective lives that no longer glorify Christ and God Almighty.

Thank God, that Salvation is a secure and sealed relationship promised by God to all true regenerated believers, but Mormonism preys on the Christian that doesn't follow Roman's Chapter 12 admonishments to fill one's mind with the scriptures, in order to wash away the old ways of the fallen, and Adamic life.

Truthspeaker projects this handsome well dressed well poised image via his avatar. No doubt he's very popular. That doesn't mean anything in God's economy. Smooth speech, good looks, persuasive personalities, don't make a Christian. A Christian is who they are because God, has established the permanent, binding relationship between the person and Him, via the avenue of His grace through the person's belief that Christ is the one and only Son of God, and He/Christ is the Alpha-Omega, Beginning and End, and is equal to, and is God in the Flesh.

The bible does not teach that there are progressions of God, nor that us earthlings are entitled to Godhood. That is blasphemous, and brings God down from His majestic position of omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence.

Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, Scientologists, Bahai', Moonies, appostles of Christ Church, Unitarianism, Unity Missouri, Hinduism, Islam, and on and on, are all manmade, and Satan instigated belief systems that attempt to counterfeit, true biblical Christianity. It was ongoing when the early church of Acts was in it's infancy, and it is going strong now. Why? Cause the enemey of God, the Prince of this World, Lucifer, is alive and well, working overtime, with great brilliance to lead all whom he may from receiving Christ and joining God's kingdom.

Some manmade religions are subtle, and take a little here and there from the holy bible, to make themselves appear to be legitimate, others blantantly reject the bible, and the Christ as revealed there-in.

Mormonism has grown by leaps and bounds as it initially introduces potential converts to it's religion, by convincing Christians and those raised or knowledgeable of Christianity to some extent, and even those totally unknowledgeable about Christianity, by pushing the "family, love, community spirit, "we will come to your aid in hard times"" approach. Who can resist that kind of approach; especially in these hard economic times?

Throughout the bible, it is emphasized that living here on earth is not an easy task, as man's fall in the Garden precipitated and resulted in a fallen world, that growns with labor pains for the coming of Christ to make this right again.

Mormonis offers Smith's humanistic answer to understanding and believing in God. His teaching brings God down to a sinful, and fallen level, that stips God of His holiness, and omnipotent power to be the One and only answer to mankind's folly and woe.

White shirts and neckties does not make a true Christian, nor riding bicycles miles and miles facing one rejection after another from door to door, attempting to provide the answers to life to strangers at their doorsteps. Those are all termed "dead works" in the bible. Though Mormons try to reject this being pinned on them, they indeed are working hard at the task of being accepted by God through their deeds of community service, door to door proselytizing, clean living, clean clothes and clean cut haircuts. God doesn't want the exterior of man cleaned-up, but wants to clean up the inner man, or man's soul.

Since the Fall of man, man's soul has been devoid of a spiritual relationship with God. God knew that man would fall in the Garden and that this race starting from the loins of Adam would continue to multiply, continue to look for a reason for life and existence, but would fail miserably doing-so. God had planned before even the creation of man to send His one and only Son, through immaculate conception of a young Godly virgin woman on earth as the "Perfect Man/human", devoid of the sin of the Fall, as He/Jesus bears no fleshly inheritance of Adam's ancestry.

Jesus is termed, the "new Adam" in the bible, and rightly so. He is sinless, and His flesh is not fallen as it is not of Adam's heritage, but of God's as He/Jesus is God..........It is believed that the Priest, Melkisidek was an early incarnate appearance of Jesus in Abraham's presence as interestinglly, the bible gives no geneology for Melkisidek the priest.

The Mormon church has grabbed onto the Melkisidek priesthood, and used it as part of their rituals of attaining a greater step towards ultimate Godhood. This is all again blasphemous, yet predictable, as it feeds into the inherent fallen nature of man to ascertain or attempt to achieve godliness via his own pititful design.

The Mormons church ultimately teaches that "works" are the only way to achieve godhood or be in the good graces of their god. On the other hand, the bible teaches that Godhood is not man's need, as he/man is but made from dust, is finite in lifespan, and is not eternal except when God intervenes and places His eternal life into that finite human soul.

Mormons on the contrary, work their darndest to impress their Smith Jr. engendered god, lacking the true biblical knowlege of what God is, and what brings humanity into a lasting, eternal relationship with Him.

Simply put, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.". Christ is uniquely, and clearly revealed as to His nature and purpose in the 1st chapter of the book written by John the Apostle, who outlived all the other Apostles.

The 1st chapter says:

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

4In him was life, and that life was the light of men(Jesus).

5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. (John the Baptist)

7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light(Jesus), so that through him all men might believe.

8He(John the Baptist) himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light(Jesus).

9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him(Sadly there's where Mormons and other manmade religions/peoples are in respect to God).

11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

12Yet to all who received him(Receive Him, not pound down hundreds/thousands of doors winning souls to the church to impress and work one up the ladder to salvation and ultimate godhood.), to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "

16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.

17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

It is written all over the bible...............Receive Him............Receive Him...............God abhor's most of man's works to impress Him as they are feeble attempts to assuage their god's fickle, and demanding personna. That is the the bible God.

Remember Mormons, that Jesus is the representation of God, whom no man has seen. God extended Himself to the ultimate to reveal His nature to this fallen race, whom He had originally created in His image. By the way, "in His image" doesn't mean "in His Godhood". It means that He/God created a race of beings that could respond to Him, and could reveal in their lives His life, as vessels of His. Man was created to with a need for God, but not a need to be God. That is blasphemous again, as God is endless, never being created, and pre-existing all creation. Man is one of God's great creative works, as man was intended to bring glory to the un-Created One or the Creator of man. God didn't make man because He was lonely, but created man to bring glory to Himself. God deserves all glory, as all of creation exists because of Him, not despite Him, as cynics would spout.

Mormons are without excuse when introduced to the Truth of the bible; anymore than man in any part of the world, involved or non-involved in any religion.

God has made Himself very apparent even to the natives living in the Stone Age cultures of remote Islands and remote areas of continents.

Trees, mountains, stars, animals, the birth of a child..........all reveals a greater Power than ouirselves. Romans chapter one says that we are without excuse as God has made if very, very, plain to all throught His creative genius that there is One greater than man.

Smith Jr. has attempted, and done so quite successfully, to bring God, down to a level of fleshly, fallen, Adamic man's level. Smith Jr. cannot, and has not coped with the God of the bible.

Smith's con-life and sorry track record of life, has immediately disqualified him from the position of an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Yet, Smith has gone further and made his disqualification more concrete through his blasphemous teachings and sermons that have recreated God into a mere fallible human that became a god through progressive good works as prescribed by the leaders of their religion.

There is no way that one can refute, clearly the Mormon's stance, as they have created a circular path of doctrine that attempts to avoid biblical mandates. All things Mormon start with mere self-appointed apostle's teachings and come full-circle around to these false apostles for confirmation.

Secondly, the Mormon is taught that manifestations that confirm Mormonism as truth on the personal psychic level such as visions, dreams, etc.., are valid. This again protects the average Mormon from questioning these experiential happenings in light of what the bible says. God has nothing against the visions or dreams, but throughout the bible, these dreams/visions must be taken to the bible to make sure they are of God, and not of just manmade-manifested origin.

Avatar and Truthspeaker defend their visions and happenings that confirm that they are Christians, yet refuse to confirm these with the bible. That is both deflection, and outright refusal to "test" their belief system against the Word Of GOD. Bereans tested even Apostle Paul's letters and teachings their their early church by going to their scripture. PAUL COMMENDED THEM! Will a Mormon elder commend you, a Mormon church member, if you go to the bible to ultimately confirm yeah or nay, the teachings of Smith Jr., Young, or even one's visions, dreams or burning bosom experiences?

Satan is a wise and wylie character, and He has a multitude of fallen angels that 24/7 work overtime keeping the human race in bondage from seeking the truth of God. Mormons don't see it that way. Satan was merely a disenfranchised brother of Jesus, that lost out on being picked by their progressive god the father once a man from Lucifer to be the next savior of planet earth.

Folks when you take Mormon teaching from Smith and Young in total, it is so bazaar, and crazy, in it's teacing. How do perfectly rational, intelligent folks like Truthspeaker and Avatar etc... buy into this stuff? It all goes back to the ultimate fall of man. Just as man decided that he would ascertain or reach God through building the Tower of Babel, so the Mormon doctrine follows similarly, in building a false unbiblical road map for fallen man to ascertain, and even become a god.

Why do I lower case the "g" in the Mormon god? Because the bible reserves the name "God" for "God" alone.; not a glorified man........nor a hard working sinner, who got granted godhood.
************

 

[Liability]

Do you all realize what has froggy in such a pissy mood as regards this thread?

He was initially all excited!

He had misread the title of the thread. He thought it said, "The Truth about Morons."

He thought it was a thread about HIM!

Now, he's just lashing out.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Because JS was not an apostle or prophet like Peter or Paul or the others of the New Testament?

What makes an apostle to you? Why do the ancient apostles qualify but not Smith?

Is as obvious as your proboscis between your eyes.

Smith absolutely fullfills the required statistics of a "false prophet".

These visions he had in N.Y. as a young man are just his own mental gymnastics.

Nowadays, he'd be committed to a mental hospital.

The bible provides all that mankind needs to have a relationship with God, through giving one's life to Christ as Savior and Lord.

The Book of Mormon is filled with plagarism from the King James of Smith's day, plus his wild, mentally touched and manipulative imagination.

The Christian world does not need Mormonism to enjoy a true relationship with God through Jesus Christ. In fact the world doesn't need Mormonism at all, as it is a false religion, that leads many true Christians into uneffective lives that no longer glorify Christ and God Almighty.

Thank God, that Salvation is a secure and sealed relationship promised by God to all true regenerated believers, but Mormonism preys on the Christian that doesn't follow Roman's Chapter 12 admonishments to fill one's mind with the scriptures, in order to wash away the old ways of the fallen, and Adamic life.

Truthspeaker projects this handsome well dressed well poised image via his avatar. No doubt he's very popular. That doesn't mean anything in God's economy. Smooth speech, good looks, persuasive personalities, don't make a Christian. A Christian is who they are because God, has established the permanent, binding relationship between the person and Him, via the avenue of His grace through the person's belief that Christ is the one and only Son of God, and He/Christ is the Alpha-Omega, Beginning and End, and is equal to, and is God in the Flesh.

The bible does not teach that there are progressions of God, nor that us earthlings are entitled to Godhood. That is blasphemous, and brings God down from His majestic position of omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence.

Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, Scientologists, Bahai', Moonies, appostles of Christ Church, Unitarianism, Unity Missouri, Hinduism, Islam, and on and on, are all manmade, and Satan instigated belief systems that attempt to counterfeit, true biblical Christianity. It was ongoing when the early church of Acts was in it's infancy, and it is going strong now. Why? Cause the enemey of God, the Prince of this World, Lucifer, is alive and well, working overtime, with great brilliance to lead all whom he may from receiving Christ and joining God's kingdom.

Some manmade religions are subtle, and take a little here and there from the holy bible, to make themselves appear to be legitimate, others blantantly reject the bible, and the Christ as revealed there-in.

Mormonism has grown by leaps and bounds as it initially introduces potential converts to it's religion, by convincing Christians and those raised or knowledgeable of Christianity to some extent, and even those totally unknowledgeable about Christianity, by pushing the "family, love, community spirit, "we will come to your aid in hard times"" approach. Who can resist that kind of approach; especially in these hard economic times?

Throughout the bible, it is emphasized that living here on earth is not an easy task, as man's fall in the Garden precipitated and resulted in a fallen world, that growns with labor pains for the coming of Christ to make this right again.

Mormonis offers Smith's humanistic answer to understanding and believing in God. His teaching brings God down to a sinful, and fallen level, that stips God of His holiness, and omnipotent power to be the One and only answer to mankind's folly and woe.

White shirts and neckties does not make a true Christian, nor riding bicycles miles and miles facing one rejection after another from door to door, attempting to provide the answers to life to strangers at their doorsteps. Those are all termed "dead works" in the bible. Though Mormons try to reject this being pinned on them, they indeed are working hard at the task of being accepted by God through their deeds of community service, door to door proselytizing, clean living, clean clothes and clean cut haircuts. God doesn't want the exterior of man cleaned-up, but wants to clean up the inner man, or man's soul.

Since the Fall of man, man's soul has been devoid of a spiritual relationship with God. God knew that man would fall in the Garden and that this race starting from the loins of Adam would continue to multiply, continue to look for a reason for life and existence, but would fail miserably doing-so. God had planned before even the creation of man to send His one and only Son, through immaculate conception of a young Godly virgin woman on earth as the "Perfect Man/human", devoid of the sin of the Fall, as He/Jesus bears no fleshly inheritance of Adam's ancestry.

Jesus is termed, the "new Adam" in the bible, and rightly so. He is sinless, and His flesh is not fallen as it is not of Adam's heritage, but of God's as He/Jesus is God..........It is believed that the Priest, Melkisidek was an early incarnate appearance of Jesus in Abraham's presence as interestinglly, the bible gives no geneology for Melkisidek the priest.

The Mormon church has grabbed onto the Melkisidek priesthood, and used it as part of their rituals of attaining a greater step towards ultimate Godhood. This is all again blasphemous, yet predictable, as it feeds into the inherent fallen nature of man to ascertain or attempt to achieve godliness via his own pititful design.

The Mormons church ultimately teaches that "works" are the only way to achieve godhood or be in the good graces of their god. On the other hand, the bible teaches that Godhood is not man's need, as he/man is but made from dust, is finite in lifespan, and is not eternal except when God intervenes and places His eternal life into that finite human soul.

Mormons on the contrary, work their darndest to impress their Smith Jr. engendered god, lacking the true biblical knowlege of what God is, and what brings humanity into a lasting, eternal relationship with Him.

Simply put, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.". Christ is uniquely, and clearly revealed as to His nature and purpose in the 1st chapter of the book written by John the Apostle, who outlived all the other Apostles.

The 1st chapter says:

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

4In him was life, and that life was the light of men(Jesus).

5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. (John the Baptist)

7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light(Jesus), so that through him all men might believe.

8He(John the Baptist) himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light(Jesus).

9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him(Sadly there's where Mormons and other manmade religions/peoples are in respect to God).

11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

12Yet to all who received him(Receive Him, not pound down hundreds/thousands of doors winning souls to the church to impress and work one up the ladder to salvation and ultimate godhood.), to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "

16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.

17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

It is written all over the bible...............Receive Him............Receive Him...............God abhor's most of man's works to impress Him as they are feeble attempts to assuage their god's fickle, and demanding personna. That is the the bible God.

Remember Mormons, that Jesus is the representation of God, whom no man has seen. God extended Himself to the ultimate to reveal His nature to this fallen race, whom He had originally created in His image. By the way, "in His image" doesn't mean "in His Godhood". It means that He/God created a race of beings that could respond to Him, and could reveal in their lives His life, as vessels of His. Man was created to with a need for God, but not a need to be God. That is blasphemous again, as God is endless, never being created, and pre-existing all creation. Man is one of God's great creative works, as man was intended to bring glory to the un-Created One or the Creator of man. God didn't make man because He was lonely, but created man to bring glory to Himself. God deserves all glory, as all of creation exists because of Him, not despite Him, as cynics would spout.

Mormons are without excuse when introduced to the Truth of the bible; anymore than man in any part of the world, involved or non-involved in any religion.

God has made Himself very apparent even to the natives living in the Stone Age cultures of remote Islands and remote areas of continents.

Trees, mountains, stars, animals, the birth of a child..........all reveals a greater Power than ouirselves. Romans chapter one says that we are without excuse as God has made if very, very, plain to all throught His creative genius that there is One greater than man.

Smith Jr. has attempted, and done so quite successfully, to bring God, down to a level of fleshly, fallen, Adamic man's level. Smith Jr. cannot, and has not coped with the God of the bible.

Smith's con-life and sorry track record of life, has immediately disqualified him from the position of an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Yet, Smith has gone further and made his disqualification more concrete through his blasphemous teachings and sermons that have recreated God into a mere fallible human that became a god through progressive good works as prescribed by the leaders of their religion.

There is no way that one can refute, clearly the Mormon's stance, as they have created a circular path of doctrine that attempts to avoid biblical mandates. All things Mormon start with mere self-appointed apostle's teachings and come full-circle around to these false apostles for confirmation.

Secondly, the Mormon is taught that manifestations that confirm Mormonism as truth on the personal psychic level such as visions, dreams, etc.., are valid. This again protects the average Mormon from questioning these experiential happenings in light of what the bible says. God has nothing against the visions or dreams, but throughout the bible, these dreams/visions must be taken to the bible to make sure they are of God, and not of just manmade-manifested origin.

Avatar and Truthspeaker defend their visions and happenings that confirm that they are Christians, yet refuse to confirm these with the bible. That is both deflection, and outright refusal to "test" their belief system against the Word Of GOD. Bereans tested even Apostle Paul's letters and teachings their their early church by going to their scripture. PAUL COMMENDED THEM! Will a Mormon elder commend you, a Mormon church member, if you go to the bible to ultimately confirm yeah or nay, the teachings of Smith Jr., Young, or even one's visions, dreams or burning bosom experiences?

Satan is a wise and wylie character, and He has a multitude of fallen angels that 24/7 work overtime keeping the human race in bondage from seeking the truth of God. Mormons don't see it that way. Satan was merely a disenfranchised brother of Jesus, that lost out on being picked by their progressive god the father once a man from Lucifer to be the next savior of planet earth.

Folks when you take Mormon teaching from Smith and Young in total, it is so bazaar, and crazy, in it's teacing. How do perfectly rational, intelligent folks like Truthspeaker and Avatar etc... buy into this stuff? It all goes back to the ultimate fall of man. Just as man decided that he would ascertain or reach God through building the Tower of Babel, so the Mormon doctrine follows similarly, in building a false unbiblical road map for fallen man to ascertain, and even become a god.

Why do I lower case the "g" in the Mormon god? Because the bible reserves the name "God" for "God" alone.; not a glorified man........nor a hard working sinner, who got granted godhood.
************

Welcome back 8-Ballsy. You are true to form in your repetition. You just couldn't stay aways could you. I knew you missed me. I've responded to every one of those things already and will simply copy and paste the articles of faith for all who care about what we really believe in.
Articles of Faith 1

 

[Truthspeaker]

Do you all realize what has froggy in such a pissy mood as regards this thread?

He was initially all excited!

He had misread the title of the thread. He thought it said, "The Truth about Morons."

He thought it was a thread about HIM!

Now, he's just lashing out.

Poor poor dear Froggy.

 

[froggy]

Do you all realize what has froggy in such a pissy mood as regards this thread?

He was initially all excited!

He had misread the title of the thread. He thought it said, "The Truth about Morons."

He thought it was a thread about HIM!

Now, he's just lashing out.

Poor poor dear Froggy.

I see your showing that JOEYISM, aren't you.

 

[Avatar4321]

Is as obvious as your proboscis between your eyes.

Smith absolutely fullfills the required statistics of a "false prophet".

These visions he had in N.Y. as a young man are just his own mental gymnastics.

Nowadays, he'd be committed to a mental hospital.

So you admit that he had real visions. I feel that is some progress. According to your standard anyone who has visions would be committed to a mental hospital nowadays. So you've already invalidated the Visions of Enoch, Noah, Moses, Joseph of Egypt, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Paul, Peter, John the Beloved. According to your current standard, they would all be committed to a mental hospital.

After all, How dare someone say that God has actually communicated with man. We have enough already. We dont have anything else to learn from God. Ignore the fact that mankind is under a shadow of wickedness. God has said everything He will say. There are no more miracles.

The bible provides all that mankind needs to have a relationship with God, through giving one's life to Christ as Savior and Lord.

No. Christ provides all that mankind needs to have a relationship with God. It is through Christ we are saved. Not through the Bible. The Bible points to and testifies of Christ. It's a tool to bring mankind to Christ and to teach them of Christ. It exists to demonstrate that our forefather had knowledge of our days and the means to our Redemption. Much like the Law of Moses was designed to point to Christ, so do all of scriptures. We are not saved through the Bible. Nor are we saved by the Law of Moses.

It would be nice if you realized that, however useful, The Bible is not nor does it claim to be the end all of God's relationship with mankind. Nor do we need perfect scriptures to lead us to follow our perfect Lord. We do not need eloquence of words to teach us correct doctrines.

The Book of Mormon is filled with plagarism from the King James of Smith's day, plus his wild, mentally touched and manipulative imagination.

That is blatantly false. there is no plagarism from the King James version. The Book of Mormon contains a record of a people who saw Christ and have added their witness to the many others that: He Lives! It's a history of a people that is designed to bring people to Christ and to remind the world that God remembers His covenants and will remember in Mercy His people in the last days.

The Christian world does not need Mormonism to enjoy a true relationship with God through Jesus Christ. In fact the world doesn't need Mormonism at all, as it is a false religion, that leads many true Christians into uneffective lives that no longer glorify Christ and God Almighty.

You don't? Well, fine, you dont have to join Christ's Church. You dont have to recieve of all the blessings Christ has available for you. If you are happy where you are, you will recieve what you willing to recieve. But God has more for you, when you are ready to listen. He has prepared those that serve Him to recieve all He has: Power, Might, Dominion, Knowledge, Nature, etc. But He doesnt force anyone to accept it. It's your right to decline. He doesn't love you any less. And He will always have His arms wide open for when you are ready to recieve more.

Thank God, that Salvation is a secure and sealed relationship promised by God to all true regenerated believers, but Mormonism preys on the Christian that doesn't follow Roman's Chapter 12 admonishments to fill one's mind with the scriptures, in order to wash away the old ways of the fallen, and Adamic life.

Mormonism doesnt prey on anyone. We actively teach and preach the covenants and commandments the Lord has given us. We invite people to come unto Christ of their own free will and serve Him will all their heart. And if they do this we promise that they will recieve the fulness of the blessings He has instore for man. and that someday he/she will be able to enter into the presence of God and learn directly from HIm.

Truthspeaker projects this handsome well dressed well poised image via his avatar. No doubt he's very popular. That doesn't mean anything in God's economy. Smooth speech, good looks, persuasive personalities, don't make a Christian. A Christian is who they are because God, has established the permanent, binding relationship between the person and Him, via the avenue of His grace through the person's belief that Christ is the one and only Son of God, and He/Christ is the Alpha-Omega, Beginning and End, and is equal to, and is God in the Flesh.

Well, that's nice for TS. Im not very attractive. Im very average. I am not a good speaker. I freely admit it. I write far better than I speak and I am far below the standards to which I aspire. But neither he nor I have ever claimed that looking good is important to God. What we are teaching is that making and making covenants are important. And we invite all everywhere to exercise faith in Christ, to repent of their sins and be baptized for the remision of sins, so that they can recieve the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. This is our invitation. And we don't expect anyone to do so just because we say so or because we might look good or say something nicely. We invite everyone to investigate for themself. To study the scriptures and to go before God in humble and sincere pray to know for themselves whether what we teach is true.

You dont seem to think making and keeping covenants is important for a binding relationship. The relationship between man and God has often been related to the relationship between a man and his wife. The man and woman may have some sort of relationship before they are married. But they cannot recieve the fulness of the relationship until after they have made covenants and humble work with each other for their relationship to grow. The relationship between man and God is no different. God and the man may have a relationship. They may communicate. But until those covenants are made and kept their is no power in the relationship. The relationship is no more binding than any other relationship.

The bible does not teach that there are progressions of God, nor that us earthlings are entitled to Godhood. That is blasphemous, and brings God down from His majestic position of omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence.

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I can't imagine why you continue to claim this despite the fact that I, personally, have shown you otherwise on multiple occasions.

22 ¶ And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever (Genesis 3:22)

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Psalms 82:6)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (John 10:34-36)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Romans 8:16-17)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (Phil. 2:5-7)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:2-3)

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:4)

So, once again, I completely dispute that the Bible says nothing about the Eternal destiny of man. I think the Bible is quite clear that the entire reason that God became flesh was so that men can be as God is. We are the children of God. We are destined to grow up with the power of the Atonement.

Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, Scientologists, Bahai', Moonies, appostles of Christ Church, Unitarianism, Unity Missouri, Hinduism, Islam, and on and on, are all manmade, and Satan instigated belief systems that attempt to counterfeit, true biblical Christianity. It was ongoing when the early church of Acts was in it's infancy, and it is going strong now. Why? Cause the enemey of God, the Prince of this World, Lucifer, is alive and well, working overtime, with great brilliance to lead all whom he may from receiving Christ and joining God's kingdom.

You can assert all you want. Repeating it again and again doesnt make it true. Repeating it again and again does not change the testimony of the Spirit which has touched many and will continue to touch man.

I find it interesting that you never bother to stop and ask yourself whether you might be the one falling for the counterfiet system.

Some manmade religions are subtle, and take a little here and there from the holy bible, to make themselves appear to be legitimate, others blantantly reject the bible, and the Christ as revealed there-in.

And some declare the Bible to be all they follow and reject anything God has to say to them while ignoring what the Bible actually teaches.

Mormonism has grown by leaps and bounds as it initially introduces potential converts to it's religion, by convincing Christians and those raised or knowledgeable of Christianity to some extent, and even those totally unknowledgeable about Christianity, by pushing the "family, love, community spirit, "we will come to your aid in hard times"" approach. Who can resist that kind of approach; especially in these hard economic times?

We teach the doctrine of Christ. I know, ive taught it before and i am sure I will continue to again and again. The fact that you think family, love, community spirit, aid for one another is somehow contrary to the Order of heaven makes me question the validity of your beliefs. Are you suggesting that Christ doesnt want us to have strong families? He doesnt want us to love one another? He doesnt want us to build each other up? Or aid one another in hard times?

We teach the doctrines and those are the fruits of our doctrines. And the fruits are good because the doctrine is good.

Throughout the bible, it is emphasized that living here on earth is not an easy task, as man's fall in the Garden precipitated and resulted in a fallen world, that growns with labor pains for the coming of Christ to make this right again.

Well, living here on earth isnt easy. Im surprised you are acting as though anyone thinks it is. Ive never met a single person in the history of my life that thinks life is easy. There are some that despute the fall. But those are usually those without a JudeoChristian background. Obviously Mormons would agree that man is fallen and that we are saved through the atonement and resurrection of Jesus Christ. You seem to think that we teach something contnrary.

Mormonis offers Smith's humanistic answer to understanding and believing in God. His teaching brings God down to a sinful, and fallen level, that stips God of His holiness, and omnipotent power to be the One and only answer to mankind's folly and woe.

The Pharisees also complained that the Lord spent time with sinners. But then since we are all sinners, how many options does God really have if He wants to lift us up? None of this takes away from His Holiness. Because even we as imperfect people can become Holy. Christ was Holy all of His life. Being friends with sinners didnt change that. Nor dying for them did that.

You like to pretend Mormons dont believe that Christ is the only and only answer to mankinds folly and woe. You are incorrect. If I was pushing it, I think i could say you are lying because I know you've specifically been told what we correctly believe multiple times. But you refuse to listen. You've made up your mind, the facts be damned.

White shirts and neckties does not make a true Christian, nor riding bicycles miles and miles facing one rejection after another from door to door, attempting to provide the answers to life to strangers at their doorsteps. Those are all termed "dead works" in the bible. Though Mormons try to reject this being pinned on them, they indeed are working hard at the task of being accepted by God through their deeds of community service, door to door proselytizing, clean living, clean clothes and clean cut haircuts. God doesn't want the exterior of man cleaned-up, but wants to clean up the inner man, or man's soul.

Did anyone say white shirts and neckties makes a true Christian? Did anyone say riding bicycles did? Your straw men aside. No work done out of faith and love of God is a dead work. You think that the inner man is clean when he refuses to help his fellow man? Do you think the inner man is free when fears telling people of Christ? Do you think the inner man is clean because you refuse to obey Christ? God asks so little of us. He just wants us to love Him. And If we love Him, we follow Him. We dont make excuses not to. We dont try to pretend we are made holiness without repenting just because we said so. We live it.

Since the Fall of man, man's soul has been devoid of a spiritual relationship with God. God knew that man would fall in the Garden and that this race starting from the loins of Adam would continue to multiply, continue to look for a reason for life and existence, but would fail miserably doing-so. God had planned before even the creation of man to send His one and only Son, through immaculate conception of a young Godly virgin woman on earth as the "Perfect Man/human", devoid of the sin of the Fall, as He/Jesus bears no fleshly inheritance of Adam's ancestry.

So Mary wasnt a descendant of Adam? That's a new one for me.

I dont think we have any disagreement that God had a plan to send Christ to atone for our sins before the creation of the world. Im interested to see if you could explain why He chose this plan.

I also completely disagree that man's soul has been devoid of a spiritual relationship with God. Men have been calling on God since the days of Adam and been speaking with them. Seems to be a spiritual relationship to me.

I would also think that no man's soul has had a spiritual relationship with God since the fall of Adam, then the Atonement has failed and you have no relationship with God. Since i cant believe either of these, I cannot accept your position.

Jesus is termed, the "new Adam" in the bible, and rightly so. He is sinless, and His flesh is not fallen as it is not of Adam's heritage, but of God's as He/Jesus is God..........It is believed that the Priest, Melkisidek was an early incarnate appearance of Jesus in Abraham's presence as interestinglly, the bible gives no geneology for Melkisidek the priest.

I dont think the fact that he is sinless has anything to do with the reason Christ is claled the new adam. I think it has everything to do with the fact that He is the first person who rise in the resurrection. He is Adam, the first man who rose in immortal glory.

I've never heard anyone claim that Melchesidek was Christ incarnate. In fact, im fairly certain that the Scriptures state Christ was not made flesh until He was born in the Meridian of Time. Melchesidek through tradition is believed to be Shem or one of Shem's sons. He was a type for Christ, not Christ Himself. All the Holy Prophets were types of Christ. And it's the goal of any disciple to live a life that points men to Christ.

The Mormon church has grabbed onto the Melkisidek priesthood, and used it as part of their rituals of attaining a greater step towards ultimate Godhood. This is all again blasphemous, yet predictable, as it feeds into the inherent fallen nature of man to ascertain or attempt to achieve godliness via his own pititful design.

Grabbed onto the Melchesidek Priesthood? The Priesthood was restored through the direction of Peter, James, and John. nothing was grabbed. It was given of God. Without said priesthood, no one can give the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Mormons church ultimately teaches that "works" are the only way to achieve godhood or be in the good graces of their god. On the other hand, the bible teaches that Godhood is not man's need, as he/man is but made from dust, is finite in lifespan, and is not eternal except when God intervenes and places His eternal life into that finite human soul.

Again false. We believe we will be judged by our works as the scriptures say. But we've always made it clear that we are saved through Christ. We can only recieve Eternal Life through Christ. If any of us reach our full potential it will not be because of our own actions. It will be because Christ has given us a gift and we accepted it.

You are right about one thing. Without Christ we would be nothing but dust. We would not rise in glory. We would not recieve all the Father has.

Mormons on the contrary, work their darndest to impress their Smith Jr. engendered god, lacking the true biblical knowlege of what God is, and what brings humanity into a lasting, eternal relationship with Him.

I've never in my life worked to impress Joseph Smith. I dont even work to impress God. I just understand what He asks of me and seek to do it because I know that He blesses me when I do it and because I love Him. I serve the Lord because He has paid the ultimate price for my life. I may not be perfect. But the Lord knows that. He loves me anyway. And Ill still try because I love Him.

Simply because you dont feel it necessary to follow the Lord doesnt mean it isnt. The Lords commandments are given because they are counsel to save us from hardship in this life and the life to come.

Simply put, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.". Christ is uniquely, and clearly revealed as to His nature and purpose in the 1st chapter of the book written by John the Apostle, who outlived all the other Apostles.

The 1st chapter says:

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

4In him was life, and that life was the light of men(Jesus).

5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. (John the Baptist)

7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light(Jesus), so that through him all men might believe.

8He(John the Baptist) himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light(Jesus).

9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him(Sadly there's where Mormons and other manmade religions/peoples are in respect to God).

11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

12Yet to all who received him(Receive Him, not pound down hundreds/thousands of doors winning souls to the church to impress and work one up the ladder to salvation and ultimate godhood.), to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "

16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.

17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

It is written all over the bible...............Receive Him............Receive Him...............God abhor's most of man's works to impress Him as they are feeble attempts to assuage their god's fickle, and demanding personna. That is the the bible God.

You really have to make up your mind. Either God became a man or that is blasphemy. You can't have it both ways.

How do you recieve Him without acting? Is recieving Him another dead work just because you have to do something? or do you finally admit the Lord does require action from us and your previous position is false and you understand the scriptures incorrectly?

Remember Mormons, that Jesus is the representation of God, whom no man has seen. God extended Himself to the ultimate to reveal His nature to this fallen race, whom He had originally created in His image. By the way, "in His image" doesn't mean "in His Godhood". It means that He/God created a race of beings that could respond to Him, and could reveal in their lives His life, as vessels of His. Man was created to with a need for God, but not a need to be God. That is blasphemous again, as God is endless, never being created, and pre-existing all creation. Man is one of God's great creative works, as man was intended to bring glory to the un-Created One or the Creator of man. God didn't make man because He was lonely, but created man to bring glory to Himself. God deserves all glory, as all of creation exists because of Him, not despite Him, as cynics would spout.

Moses didnt see God? Isaiah didnt see God? Stephen didnt see God? The Pure in heart dont see God? The scriptures are full of accounts of men seeing God. How on earth do you ignore such clear accounts?

Has anyone argued that God doesnt deserve the Glory? Your strawmen are all over the place today.

Oh and we are Eternal beings as well. If we had a beginning, we would have an end. We dont.

Mormons are without excuse when introduced to the Truth of the bible; anymore than man in any part of the world, involved or non-involved in any religion.

You dont know the truth of the Bible. You refuse to see what the Bible clearly teaches because you've already decided it doesnt teach it. You ignore that God is clearly a God of miracles and clearly speaks to His people when He has had a people on the earth. If God is silent and the heavens closed its because of wickedness and unbelief and not because of anything God has done because God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He has not changed His methods of communication. You just refuse to listen.

You want to learn the truth? Ask God. Plead with Him for the truth. Humble yourself and show Him a willingness to follow His will for you and He will show you things you've never considered. He will lift you higher than you ever imagined youd go.

God has made Himself very apparent even to the natives living in the Stone Age cultures of remote Islands and remote areas of continents.

And yet any knowledge of God we recieve from these people you would reject simply because that knowledge was unavailable or delibrately left out when men compiled what is now the Bible. If angels from heaven appeared to you and handed you record upon record of God's dealing with any primitive man, you wouldnt listen because it's not part of the Bible.

Does that make sense to any rational person? Does that make sense to anyone who knows God's love? Why on earth, if you love God, do you refuse to listen when He has more to say?

Trees, mountains, stars, animals, the birth of a child..........all reveals a greater Power than ouirselves. Romans chapter one says that we are without excuse as God has made if very, very, plain to all throught His creative genius that there is One greater than man.

Has anyone currently disputed that there is a God or that He is greater than us?

Smith Jr. has attempted, and done so quite successfully, to bring God, down to a level of fleshly, fallen, Adamic man's level. Smith Jr. cannot, and has not coped with the God of the bible.

Did you even bother reading what you just posted. You just posted the very scriptures that show that God became flesh. And now its somehow wrong to think He has been made flesh? The scriptures are clear that God became flesh and walked among sinful man. The scriptures are also clear that because of Him we can become He is.

How was Joseph wrong?

Smith's con-life and sorry track record of life, has immediately disqualified him from the position of an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Yet, Smith has gone further and made his disqualification more concrete through his blasphemous teachings and sermons that have recreated God into a mere fallible human that became a god through progressive good works as prescribed by the leaders of their religion.

So what your saying is Judas was an Apostle and can betray our Savior, Peter can deny Jesus Christ three times and be an Apostle, Paul helped in the persecution and murder of Christians and can be an Apostle and yet Joseph can be found innocent of any crime every alleged against him and that immediately disqualifies him from being an Apostle. You're argument makes no sense. Joseph never made God falliable. Quite the opposite. Are you suggesting that God doesnt do good works? Your argument makes no sense and is totally contrary to the scriptures.

Even Christ was found guilty of a crime and put to death. He was Holy and Perfect and found guilty of a crime. Joseph never claimed to be holy per perfect. He was not found guilty of any crime. He was beaten for His faith. He was murdered for His faith after He saw His Brother murdered before His eyes. They spoke evil concerning the Master when He was perfect and Holy. How much more can they say against someone imperfect and unholy?

But who else does God have to work with? there was only only Holy and perfect man to walk the earth. The rest of us are imperfect. But we are all God has to work with. If you have found a Church with perfect people in it, please direct me to it.

There is no way that one can refute, clearly the Mormon's stance, as they have created a circular path of doctrine that attempts to avoid biblical mandates. All things Mormon start with mere self-appointed apostle's teachings and come full-circle around to these false apostles for confirmation.

Incorrect. There is no way that one can refuse our stance because we tell all people to go to the Lord and learn from Him and Lean on His understanding. A person is converted through personal experiences with the Lord. We don't Bible bash to prove our point. Though as you can clearly see through this thread, when we do, we win.

Secondly, the Mormon is taught that manifestations that confirm Mormonism as truth on the personal psychic level such as visions, dreams, etc.., are valid. This again protects the average Mormon from questioning these experiential happenings in light of what the bible says. God has nothing against the visions or dreams, but throughout the bible, these dreams/visions must be taken to the bible to make sure they are of God, and not of just manmade-manifested origin.

Prevents questioning? Are you insane? How on earth do you think we have experiences with God if we dont ask Him questions concerning various things? How are you supposed to learn anything if you dont question? Why are you so afraid to answer God? Who should we trust, God or your understanding of the Bible? No offense, but Id much rather go to the source then go through you.

Did Peter take His vision to take the Gospel to the Gentiles to the Bible to make sure it was from God? No. How did He know it was from God and what it meant?

44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (Acts 10:44)

What a surprise. The Holy Ghost showed them it was correct. The Holy Ghost will teach you the truth of all things. Why are you so against learning from the Holy Ghost? It's the Holy Ghost that interprets the scriptures not vice versa. The Holy Ghost is what shows us all things we need to do. It's the Holy Ghost that shows us whether a vision is from God and what it means.

Did anyone else take their visions to the Bible? Did Paul? Did John the Revelator? Did Daniel? Did Ezekial? Did Joseph of Egypt?

No. None of them did. They knew it was from God because they had experiences with God. God revealed it to them.

Avatar and Truthspeaker defend their visions and happenings that confirm that they are Christians, yet refuse to confirm these with the bible. That is both deflection, and outright refusal to "test" their belief system against the Word Of GOD. Bereans tested even Apostle Paul's letters and teachings their their early church by going to their scripture. PAUL COMMENDED THEM! Will a Mormon elder commend you, a Mormon church member, if you go to the bible to ultimately confirm yeah or nay, the teachings of Smith Jr., Young, or even one's visions, dreams or burning bosom experiences?

The test is not the Bible. The Test is the Holy Spirit. We learn by going to God and learning from Him and not trying to reason it out with our own understanding. However, you seem to be of the opinion that there is anything that Joseph taught that is contrary to the Bible. This is false. As youve been shown multiple times. Nor is there any evidence that the Bible is and was intended to be the end all be all of revelation to mankind.

As for your question: Yes. We encourage people to search the scriptures and learn for themselves by going to God. Stop exalting the tool above the Lord who created it.

Satan is a wise and wylie character, and He has a multitude of fallen angels that 24/7 work overtime keeping the human race in bondage from seeking the truth of God. Mormons don't see it that way. Satan was merely a disenfranchised brother of Jesus, that lost out on being picked by their progressive god the father once a man from Lucifer to be the next savior of planet earth.

Do you know how Satan keeps people from seeking the truth of God? He tells them not to ask God. He convinces people that they can never know the truth or that they can figure it out own their own through their own great reasoning and intellect. He teaches men not to seek the Lord for what He thinks but to ignore the Spirit. It's not hard to figure out which one of the two of us is following that pattern.

Also, your blatantly lies are duly noted. You know we dont disagree that Satan is a wise and wylie character. Nor do we disagree that he is trying to keep the human race in bondage. To assert otherwise when you know better is a lie. And I would encourage you to stop doing so. Because God has commanded us not to bear false witness.

Folks when you take Mormon teaching from Smith and Young in total, it is so bazaar, and crazy, in it's teacing. How do perfectly rational, intelligent folks like Truthspeaker and Avatar etc... buy into this stuff? It all goes back to the ultimate fall of man. Just as man decided that he would ascertain or reach God through building the Tower of Babel, so the Mormon doctrine follows similarly, in building a false unbiblical road map for fallen man to ascertain, and even become a god.

There is absolutely nothing crazy about it if you study the scriptures and seek to know the will of God through Humble prayer. It isnt crazy if you realize what the Bible really is and how we are supposed to have an actual relationship with God and not just an indirect one through the scriptures. It isnt crazy at all if you actually admit what our positions are instead of pretending that we believe things we dont believe. It isnt crazy at all if you've ever experienced the power of the Holy Ghost and felt the love of God in your life.

Stop pretending your caricatures of my faith in Christ is accurate and then you wont have a difficult time understanding why I put my faith in His word.

Why do I lower case the "g" in the Mormon god? Because the bible reserves the name "God" for "God" alone.; not a glorified man........nor a hard working sinner, who got granted godhood.
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I don't really care what you capitalize and dont. I dont care if you call your cat god. You arent accurately portraying the Church of Jesus Christ and I am going to continue pointing that out until you stop and actually try to dialogue.

I have never demanded that you agree with what we teach. That is between you and God. I simply ask that if you are going to disagree, that you disagree with actual teachings rather than what you pretend are our teachings. I ask that you stop ignoring when youve been responded to and stop making claims you arent true. I also invite you to repent and exercise faith in Christ. And ask God to learn the truth. I invite you to be baptized and recieve the Holy Ghost. And all things will be made clear to you.

 

[Avatar4321]

I see your showing that JOEYISM, aren't you.

Once agian, Froggy makes no sense.

Ill keep you in my prayers.

 

[Eightball]

What makes an apostle to you? Why do the ancient apostles qualify but not Smith?

Is as obvious as your proboscis between your eyes.

Smith absolutely fullfills the required statistics of a "false prophet".

These visions he had in N.Y. as a young man are just his own mental gymnastics.

Nowadays, he'd be committed to a mental hospital.

The bible provides all that mankind needs to have a relationship with God, through giving one's life to Christ as Savior and Lord.

The Book of Mormon is filled with plagarism from the King James of Smith's day, plus his wild, mentally touched and manipulative imagination.

The Christian world does not need Mormonism to enjoy a true relationship with God through Jesus Christ. In fact the world doesn't need Mormonism at all, as it is a false religion, that leads many true Christians into uneffective lives that no longer glorify Christ and God Almighty.

Thank God, that Salvation is a secure and sealed relationship promised by God to all true regenerated believers, but Mormonism preys on the Christian that doesn't follow Roman's Chapter 12 admonishments to fill one's mind with the scriptures, in order to wash away the old ways of the fallen, and Adamic life.

Truthspeaker projects this handsome well dressed well poised image via his avatar. No doubt he's very popular. That doesn't mean anything in God's economy. Smooth speech, good looks, persuasive personalities, don't make a Christian. A Christian is who they are because God, has established the permanent, binding relationship between the person and Him, via the avenue of His grace through the person's belief that Christ is the one and only Son of God, and He/Christ is the Alpha-Omega, Beginning and End, and is equal to, and is God in the Flesh.

The bible does not teach that there are progressions of God, nor that us earthlings are entitled to Godhood. That is blasphemous, and brings God down from His majestic position of omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence.

Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, Scientologists, Bahai', Moonies, appostles of Christ Church, Unitarianism, Unity Missouri, Hinduism, Islam, and on and on, are all manmade, and Satan instigated belief systems that attempt to counterfeit, true biblical Christianity. It was ongoing when the early church of Acts was in it's infancy, and it is going strong now. Why? Cause the enemey of God, the Prince of this World, Lucifer, is alive and well, working overtime, with great brilliance to lead all whom he may from receiving Christ and joining God's kingdom.

Some manmade religions are subtle, and take a little here and there from the holy bible, to make themselves appear to be legitimate, others blantantly reject the bible, and the Christ as revealed there-in.

Mormonism has grown by leaps and bounds as it initially introduces potential converts to it's religion, by convincing Christians and those raised or knowledgeable of Christianity to some extent, and even those totally unknowledgeable about Christianity, by pushing the "family, love, community spirit, "we will come to your aid in hard times"" approach. Who can resist that kind of approach; especially in these hard economic times?

Throughout the bible, it is emphasized that living here on earth is not an easy task, as man's fall in the Garden precipitated and resulted in a fallen world, that growns with labor pains for the coming of Christ to make this right again.

Mormonis offers Smith's humanistic answer to understanding and believing in God. His teaching brings God down to a sinful, and fallen level, that stips God of His holiness, and omnipotent power to be the One and only answer to mankind's folly and woe.

White shirts and neckties does not make a true Christian, nor riding bicycles miles and miles facing one rejection after another from door to door, attempting to provide the answers to life to strangers at their doorsteps. Those are all termed "dead works" in the bible. Though Mormons try to reject this being pinned on them, they indeed are working hard at the task of being accepted by God through their deeds of community service, door to door proselytizing, clean living, clean clothes and clean cut haircuts. God doesn't want the exterior of man cleaned-up, but wants to clean up the inner man, or man's soul.

Since the Fall of man, man's soul has been devoid of a spiritual relationship with God. God knew that man would fall in the Garden and that this race starting from the loins of Adam would continue to multiply, continue to look for a reason for life and existence, but would fail miserably doing-so. God had planned before even the creation of man to send His one and only Son, through immaculate conception of a young Godly virgin woman on earth as the "Perfect Man/human", devoid of the sin of the Fall, as He/Jesus bears no fleshly inheritance of Adam's ancestry.

Jesus is termed, the "new Adam" in the bible, and rightly so. He is sinless, and His flesh is not fallen as it is not of Adam's heritage, but of God's as He/Jesus is God..........It is believed that the Priest, Melkisidek was an early incarnate appearance of Jesus in Abraham's presence as interestinglly, the bible gives no geneology for Melkisidek the priest.

The Mormon church has grabbed onto the Melkisidek priesthood, and used it as part of their rituals of attaining a greater step towards ultimate Godhood. This is all again blasphemous, yet predictable, as it feeds into the inherent fallen nature of man to ascertain or attempt to achieve godliness via his own pititful design.

The Mormons church ultimately teaches that "works" are the only way to achieve godhood or be in the good graces of their god. On the other hand, the bible teaches that Godhood is not man's need, as he/man is but made from dust, is finite in lifespan, and is not eternal except when God intervenes and places His eternal life into that finite human soul.

Mormons on the contrary, work their darndest to impress their Smith Jr. engendered god, lacking the true biblical knowlege of what God is, and what brings humanity into a lasting, eternal relationship with Him.

Simply put, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.". Christ is uniquely, and clearly revealed as to His nature and purpose in the 1st chapter of the book written by John the Apostle, who outlived all the other Apostles.

The 1st chapter says:

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

4In him was life, and that life was the light of men(Jesus).

5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. (John the Baptist)

7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light(Jesus), so that through him all men might believe.

8He(John the Baptist) himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light(Jesus).

9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him(Sadly there's where Mormons and other manmade religions/peoples are in respect to God).

11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

12Yet to all who received him(Receive Him, not pound down hundreds/thousands of doors winning souls to the church to impress and work one up the ladder to salvation and ultimate godhood.), to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "

16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.

17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

It is written all over the bible...............Receive Him............Receive Him...............God abhor's most of man's works to impress Him as they are feeble attempts to assuage their god's fickle, and demanding personna. That is the the bible God.

Remember Mormons, that Jesus is the representation of God, whom no man has seen. God extended Himself to the ultimate to reveal His nature to this fallen race, whom He had originally created in His image. By the way, "in His image" doesn't mean "in His Godhood". It means that He/God created a race of beings that could respond to Him, and could reveal in their lives His life, as vessels of His. Man was created to with a need for God, but not a need to be God. That is blasphemous again, as God is endless, never being created, and pre-existing all creation. Man is one of God's great creative works, as man was intended to bring glory to the un-Created One or the Creator of man. God didn't make man because He was lonely, but created man to bring glory to Himself. God deserves all glory, as all of creation exists because of Him, not despite Him, as cynics would spout.

Mormons are without excuse when introduced to the Truth of the bible; anymore than man in any part of the world, involved or non-involved in any religion.

God has made Himself very apparent even to the natives living in the Stone Age cultures of remote Islands and remote areas of continents.

Trees, mountains, stars, animals, the birth of a child..........all reveals a greater Power than ouirselves. Romans chapter one says that we are without excuse as God has made if very, very, plain to all throught His creative genius that there is One greater than man.

Smith Jr. has attempted, and done so quite successfully, to bring God, down to a level of fleshly, fallen, Adamic man's level. Smith Jr. cannot, and has not coped with the God of the bible.

Smith's con-life and sorry track record of life, has immediately disqualified him from the position of an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Yet, Smith has gone further and made his disqualification more concrete through his blasphemous teachings and sermons that have recreated God into a mere fallible human that became a god through progressive good works as prescribed by the leaders of their religion.

There is no way that one can refute, clearly the Mormon's stance, as they have created a circular path of doctrine that attempts to avoid biblical mandates. All things Mormon start with mere self-appointed apostle's teachings and come full-circle around to these false apostles for confirmation.

Secondly, the Mormon is taught that manifestations that confirm Mormonism as truth on the personal psychic level such as visions, dreams, etc.., are valid. This again protects the average Mormon from questioning these experiential happenings in light of what the bible says. God has nothing against the visions or dreams, but throughout the bible, these dreams/visions must be taken to the bible to make sure they are of God, and not of just manmade-manifested origin.

Avatar and Truthspeaker defend their visions and happenings that confirm that they are Christians, yet refuse to confirm these with the bible. That is both deflection, and outright refusal to "test" their belief system against the Word Of GOD. Bereans tested even Apostle Paul's letters and teachings their their early church by going to their scripture. PAUL COMMENDED THEM! Will a Mormon elder commend you, a Mormon church member, if you go to the bible to ultimately confirm yeah or nay, the teachings of Smith Jr., Young, or even one's visions, dreams or burning bosom experiences?

Satan is a wise and wylie character, and He has a multitude of fallen angels that 24/7 work overtime keeping the human race in bondage from seeking the truth of God. Mormons don't see it that way. Satan was merely a disenfranchised brother of Jesus, that lost out on being picked by their progressive god the father once a man from Lucifer to be the next savior of planet earth.

Folks when you take Mormon teaching from Smith and Young in total, it is so bazaar, and crazy, in it's teacing. How do perfectly rational, intelligent folks like Truthspeaker and Avatar etc... buy into this stuff? It all goes back to the ultimate fall of man. Just as man decided that he would ascertain or reach God through building the Tower of Babel, so the Mormon doctrine follows similarly, in building a false unbiblical road map for fallen man to ascertain, and even become a god.

Why do I lower case the "g" in the Mormon god? Because the bible reserves the name "God" for "God" alone.; not a glorified man........nor a hard working sinner, who got granted godhood.
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Welcome back 8-Ballsy. You are true to form in your repetition. You just couldn't stay aways could you. I knew you missed me. I've responded to every one of those things already and will simply copy and paste the articles of faith for all who care about what we really believe in.
Articles of Faith 1

You haven't adequately answered any of my question past or present, and you know it to. You are the king of deflection. What I'd call a "good" Mormon.

 

[froggy]

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Quote: Originally Posted by Eightball

Is as obvious as your proboscis between your eyes.

Smith absolutely fullfills the required statistics of a "false prophet".

These visions he had in N.Y. as a young man are just his own mental gymnastics.

Nowadays, he'd be committed to a mental hospital. quote originally posted by avatar1234
So you admit that he had real visions. I feel that is some progress. According to your standard anyone who has visions would be committed to a mental hospital nowadays. So you've already invalidated the Visions of Enoch, Noah, Moses, Joseph of Egypt, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Paul, Peter, John the Beloved. According to your current standard, they would all be committed to a mental hospital.quote.

No he said joe was delusional, crazy, you know when your crazy in the head.

 

[Eightball]

Is as obvious as your proboscis between your eyes.

Smith absolutely fullfills the required statistics of a "false prophet".

These visions he had in N.Y. as a young man are just his own mental gymnastics.

Nowadays, he'd be committed to a mental hospital.

So you admit that he had real visions. I feel that is some progress. According to your standard anyone who has visions would be committed to a mental hospital nowadays. So you've already invalidated the Visions of Enoch, Noah, Moses, Joseph of Egypt, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Paul, Peter, John the Beloved. According to your current standard, they would all be committed to a mental hospital.

After all, How dare someone say that God has actually communicated with man. We have enough already. We dont have anything else to learn from God. Ignore the fact that mankind is under a shadow of wickedness. God has said everything He will say. There are no more miracles.

The bible provides all that mankind needs to have a relationship with God, through giving one's life to Christ as Savior and Lord.

No. Christ provides all that mankind needs to have a relationship with God. It is through Christ we are saved. Not through the Bible. The Bible points to and testifies of Christ. It's a tool to bring mankind to Christ and to teach them of Christ. It exists to demonstrate that our forefather had knowledge of our days and the means to our Redemption. Much like the Law of Moses was designed to point to Christ, so do all of scriptures. We are not saved through the Bible. Nor are we saved by the Law of Moses.

It would be nice if you realized that, however useful, The Bible is not nor does it claim to be the end all of God's relationship with mankind. Nor do we need perfect scriptures to lead us to follow our perfect Lord. We do not need eloquence of words to teach us correct doctrines.



That is blatantly false. there is no plagarism from the King James version. The Book of Mormon contains a record of a people who saw Christ and have added their witness to the many others that: He Lives! It's a history of a people that is designed to bring people to Christ and to remind the world that God remembers His covenants and will remember in Mercy His people in the last days.



You don't? Well, fine, you dont have to join Christ's Church. You dont have to recieve of all the blessings Christ has available for you. If you are happy where you are, you will recieve what you willing to recieve. But God has more for you, when you are ready to listen. He has prepared those that serve Him to recieve all He has: Power, Might, Dominion, Knowledge, Nature, etc. But He doesnt force anyone to accept it. It's your right to decline. He doesn't love you any less. And He will always have His arms wide open for when you are ready to recieve more.




Mormonism doesnt prey on anyone. We actively teach and preach the covenants and commandments the Lord has given us. We invite people to come unto Christ of their own free will and serve Him will all their heart. And if they do this we promise that they will recieve the fulness of the blessings He has instore for man. and that someday he/she will be able to enter into the presence of God and learn directly from HIm.



Well, that's nice for TS. Im not very attractive. Im very average. I am not a good speaker. I freely admit it. I write far better than I speak and I am far below the standards to which I aspire. But neither he nor I have ever claimed that looking good is important to God. What we are teaching is that making and making covenants are important. And we invite all everywhere to exercise faith in Christ, to repent of their sins and be baptized for the remision of sins, so that they can recieve the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. This is our invitation. And we don't expect anyone to do so just because we say so or because we might look good or say something nicely. We invite everyone to investigate for themself. To study the scriptures and to go before God in humble and sincere pray to know for themselves whether what we teach is true.

You dont seem to think making and keeping covenants is important for a binding relationship. The relationship between man and God has often been related to the relationship between a man and his wife. The man and woman may have some sort of relationship before they are married. But they cannot recieve the fulness of the relationship until after they have made covenants and humble work with each other for their relationship to grow. The relationship between man and God is no different. God and the man may have a relationship. They may communicate. But until those covenants are made and kept their is no power in the relationship. The relationship is no more binding than any other relationship.

]

I can't imagine why you continue to claim this despite the fact that I, personally, have shown you otherwise on multiple occasions.

















So, once again, I completely dispute that the Bible says nothing about the Eternal destiny of man. I think the Bible is quite clear that the entire reason that God became flesh was so that men can be as God is. We are the children of God. We are destined to grow up with the power of the Atonement.





You can assert all you want. Repeating it again and again doesnt make it true. Repeating it again and again does not change the testimony of the Spirit which has touched many and will continue to touch man.

I find it interesting that you never bother to stop and ask yourself whether you might be the one falling for the counterfiet system.



And some declare the Bible to be all they follow and reject anything God has to say to them while ignoring what the Bible actually teaches.




We teach the doctrine of Christ. I know, ive taught it before and i am sure I will continue to again and again. The fact that you think family, love, community spirit, aid for one another is somehow contrary to the Order of heaven makes me question the validity of your beliefs. Are you suggesting that Christ doesnt want us to have strong families? He doesnt want us to love one another? He doesnt want us to build each other up? Or aid one another in hard times?

We teach the doctrines and those are the fruits of our doctrines. And the fruits are good because the doctrine is good.




Well, living here on earth isnt easy. Im surprised you are acting as though anyone thinks it is. Ive never met a single person in the history of my life that thinks life is easy. There are some that despute the fall. But those are usually those without a JudeoChristian background. Obviously Mormons would agree that man is fallen and that we are saved through the atonement and resurrection of Jesus Christ. You seem to think that we teach something contnrary.



The Pharisees also complained that the Lord spent time with sinners. But then since we are all sinners, how many options does God really have if He wants to lift us up? None of this takes away from His Holiness. Because even we as imperfect people can become Holy. Christ was Holy all of His life. Being friends with sinners didnt change that. Nor dying for them did that.

You like to pretend Mormons dont believe that Christ is the only and only answer to mankinds folly and woe. You are incorrect. If I was pushing it, I think i could say you are lying because I know you've specifically been told what we correctly believe multiple times. But you refuse to listen. You've made up your mind, the facts be damned.



Did anyone say white shirts and neckties makes a true Christian? Did anyone say riding bicycles did? Your straw men aside. No work done out of faith and love of God is a dead work. You think that the inner man is clean when he refuses to help his fellow man? Do you think the inner man is free when fears telling people of Christ? Do you think the inner man is clean because you refuse to obey Christ? God asks so little of us. He just wants us to love Him. And If we love Him, we follow Him. We dont make excuses not to. We dont try to pretend we are made holiness without repenting just because we said so. We live it.



So Mary wasnt a descendant of Adam? That's a new one for me.

I dont think we have any disagreement that God had a plan to send Christ to atone for our sins before the creation of the world. Im interested to see if you could explain why He chose this plan.

I also completely disagree that man's soul has been devoid of a spiritual relationship with God. Men have been calling on God since the days of Adam and been speaking with them. Seems to be a spiritual relationship to me.

I would also think that no man's soul has had a spiritual relationship with God since the fall of Adam, then the Atonement has failed and you have no relationship with God. Since i cant believe either of these, I cannot accept your position.



I dont think the fact that he is sinless has anything to do with the reason Christ is claled the new adam. I think it has everything to do with the fact that He is the first person who rise in the resurrection. He is Adam, the first man who rose in immortal glory.

I've never heard anyone claim that Melchesidek was Christ incarnate. In fact, im fairly certain that the Scriptures state Christ was not made flesh until He was born in the Meridian of Time. Melchesidek through tradition is believed to be Shem or one of Shem's sons. He was a type for Christ, not Christ Himself. All the Holy Prophets were types of Christ. And it's the goal of any disciple to live a life that points men to Christ.




Grabbed onto the Melchesidek Priesthood? The Priesthood was restored through the direction of Peter, James, and John. nothing was grabbed. It was given of God. Without said priesthood, no one can give the Gift of the Holy Ghost.



Again false. We believe we will be judged by our works as the scriptures say. But we've always made it clear that we are saved through Christ. We can only recieve Eternal Life through Christ. If any of us reach our full potential it will not be because of our own actions. It will be because Christ has given us a gift and we accepted it.

You are right about one thing. Without Christ we would be nothing but dust. We would not rise in glory. We would not recieve all the Father has.



I've never in my life worked to impress Joseph Smith. I dont even work to impress God. I just understand what He asks of me and seek to do it because I know that He blesses me when I do it and because I love Him. I serve the Lord because He has paid the ultimate price for my life. I may not be perfect. But the Lord knows that. He loves me anyway. And Ill still try because I love Him.

Simply because you dont feel it necessary to follow the Lord doesnt mean it isnt. The Lords commandments are given because they are counsel to save us from hardship in this life and the life to come.



You really have to make up your mind. Either God became a man or that is blasphemy. You can't have it both ways.

How do you recieve Him without acting? Is recieving Him another dead work just because you have to do something? or do you finally admit the Lord does require action from us and your previous position is false and you understand the scriptures incorrectly?




Moses didnt see God? Isaiah didnt see God? Stephen didnt see God? The Pure in heart dont see God? The scriptures are full of accounts of men seeing God. How on earth do you ignore such clear accounts?

Has anyone argued that God doesnt deserve the Glory? Your strawmen are all over the place today.

Oh and we are Eternal beings as well. If we had a beginning, we would have an end. We dont.



You dont know the truth of the Bible. You refuse to see what the Bible clearly teaches because you've already decided it doesnt teach it. You ignore that God is clearly a God of miracles and clearly speaks to His people when He has had a people on the earth. If God is silent and the heavens closed its because of wickedness and unbelief and not because of anything God has done because God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He has not changed His methods of communication. You just refuse to listen.

You want to learn the truth? Ask God. Plead with Him for the truth. Humble yourself and show Him a willingness to follow His will for you and He will show you things you've never considered. He will lift you higher than you ever imagined youd go.



And yet any knowledge of God we recieve from these people you would reject simply because that knowledge was unavailable or delibrately left out when men compiled what is now the Bible. If angels from heaven appeared to you and handed you record upon record of God's dealing with any primitive man, you wouldnt listen because it's not part of the Bible.

Does that make sense to any rational person? Does that make sense to anyone who knows God's love? Why on earth, if you love God, do you refuse to listen when He has more to say?



Has anyone currently disputed that there is a God or that He is greater than us?



Did you even bother reading what you just posted. You just posted the very scriptures that show that God became flesh. And now its somehow wrong to think He has been made flesh? The scriptures are clear that God became flesh and walked among sinful man. The scriptures are also clear that because of Him we can become He is.

How was Joseph wrong?



So what your saying is Judas was an Apostle and can betray our Savior, Peter can deny Jesus Christ three times and be an Apostle, Paul helped in the persecution and murder of Christians and can be an Apostle and yet Joseph can be found innocent of any crime every alleged against him and that immediately disqualifies him from being an Apostle. You're argument makes no sense. Joseph never made God falliable. Quite the opposite. Are you suggesting that God doesnt do good works? Your argument makes no sense and is totally contrary to the scriptures.

Even Christ was found guilty of a crime and put to death. He was Holy and Perfect and found guilty of a crime. Joseph never claimed to be holy per perfect. He was not found guilty of any crime. He was beaten for His faith. He was murdered for His faith after He saw His Brother murdered before His eyes. They spoke evil concerning the Master when He was perfect and Holy. How much more can they say against someone imperfect and unholy?

But who else does God have to work with? there was only only Holy and perfect man to walk the earth. The rest of us are imperfect. But we are all God has to work with. If you have found a Church with perfect people in it, please direct me to it.




Incorrect. There is no way that one can refuse our stance because we tell all people to go to the Lord and learn from Him and Lean on His understanding. A person is converted through personal experiences with the Lord. We don't Bible bash to prove our point. Though as you can clearly see through this thread, when we do, we win.



Prevents questioning? Are you insane? How on earth do you think we have experiences with God if we dont ask Him questions concerning various things? How are you supposed to learn anything if you dont question? Why are you so afraid to answer God? Who should we trust, God or your understanding of the Bible? No offense, but Id much rather go to the source then go through you.

Did Peter take His vision to take the Gospel to the Gentiles to the Bible to make sure it was from God? No. How did He know it was from God and what it meant?



What a surprise. The Holy Ghost showed them it was correct. The Holy Ghost will teach you the truth of all things. Why are you so against learning from the Holy Ghost? It's the Holy Ghost that interprets the scriptures not vice versa. The Holy Ghost is what shows us all things we need to do. It's the Holy Ghost that shows us whether a vision is from God and what it means.

Did anyone else take their visions to the Bible? Did Paul? Did John the Revelator? Did Daniel? Did Ezekial? Did Joseph of Egypt?

No. None of them did. They knew it was from God because they had experiences with God. God revealed it to them.




The test is not the Bible. The Test is the Holy Spirit. We learn by going to God and learning from Him and not trying to reason it out with our own understanding. However, you seem to be of the opinion that there is anything that Joseph taught that is contrary to the Bible. This is false. As youve been shown multiple times. Nor is there any evidence that the Bible is and was intended to be the end all be all of revelation to mankind.

As for your question: Yes. We encourage people to search the scriptures and learn for themselves by going to God. Stop exalting the tool above the Lord who created it.




Do you know how Satan keeps people from seeking the truth of God? He tells them not to ask God. He convinces people that they can never know the truth or that they can figure it out own their own through their own great reasoning and intellect. He teaches men not to seek the Lord for what He thinks but to ignore the Spirit. It's not hard to figure out which one of the two of us is following that pattern.

Also, your blatantly lies are duly noted. You know we dont disagree that Satan is a wise and wylie character. Nor do we disagree that he is trying to keep the human race in bondage. To assert otherwise when you know better is a lie. And I would encourage you to stop doing so. Because God has commanded us not to bear false witness.

Folks when you take Mormon teaching from Smith and Young in total, it is so bazaar, and crazy, in it's teacing. How do perfectly rational, intelligent folks like Truthspeaker and Avatar etc... buy into this stuff? It all goes back to the ultimate fall of man. Just as man decided that he would ascertain or reach God through building the Tower of Babel, so the Mormon doctrine follows similarly, in building a false unbiblical road map for fallen man to ascertain, and even become a god.

There is absolutely nothing crazy about it if you study the scriptures and seek to know the will of God through Humble prayer. It isnt crazy if you realize what the Bible really is and how we are supposed to have an actual relationship with God and not just an indirect one through the scriptures. It isnt crazy at all if you actually admit what our positions are instead of pretending that we believe things we dont believe. It isnt crazy at all if you've ever experienced the power of the Holy Ghost and felt the love of God in your life.

Stop pretending your caricatures of my faith in Christ is accurate and then you wont have a difficult time understanding why I put my faith in His word.

Why do I lower case the "g" in the Mormon god? Because the bible reserves the name "God" for "God" alone.; not a glorified man........nor a hard working sinner, who got granted godhood.
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I don't really care what you capitalize and dont. I dont care if you call your cat god. You arent accurately portraying the Church of Jesus Christ and I am going to continue pointing that out until you stop and actually try to dialogue.

I have never demanded that you agree with what we teach. That is between you and God. I simply ask that if you are going to disagree, that you disagree with actual teachings rather than what you pretend are our teachings. I ask that you stop ignoring when youve been responded to and stop making claims you arent true. I also invite you to repent and exercise faith in Christ. And ask God to learn the truth. I invite you to be baptized and recieve the Holy Ghost. And all things will be made clear to you.

You are so sadly brainwashed..........Judas was a false Apostle.......That's why Paul was the 12th in his place..

You and tag-team Mormon Truthspeaker deflect, or just plain have a total non-spiritual understanding of the bible.

You both need true biblical salvation. Even Nicodemus was a literalist like you.............He had the knowledge but lacked the spiritual understanding of scripture...........When one is not sanctified by God in true salvation, you will end up believing all kinds of crazy heretical teachings...........Satan has you and your buddy, locked tight in a blasphemous zip lok bag of puffy, prideful, deceit, and lies which you both propagate on this forum. You know deep down that your grasping for lame straws in an endless haystack of hopelessness.

Feeling good, doctrine only goes as far as your emotions can carry you, then you have "What?" to carry you through?

Does your founding prophet turn the other cheek? By no means. He shoots dead his enemy with a single action revolver. All of Jesus' disciples went to their deaths as lambs to the slaughter knowing that a better life awaited them. Smith fought for his worldly life as though it was the only one he had.............And in truth it was.

He now is gnashing his teeth with regret in hell, along with Young and many other of your false leaders.

You folks have to spend so much extra time patching holes in the Mormon dike to hold back the weight of documented truth that indicts your founders of fraud, criminal activities ranging all the way up to cold blooded murder.

Just because you present the old family image, with the American flag, and apple pie nowadays to the unsuspecting public doesn't change where your foundational doctrine lies.............And Lies it does.

You teach your members to take any and all anti-Mormonism as a sign of being in the truth, and don't bother to even check out the substance of the critiques.

Your a classic example of a cultist. Cultists walk in lock step with their elders. They fear castigation if they leave the fold, and in the case of Mormons, boy oh boy do they get castigated in communities where the majority populous is Mormon.

Your religion is a mish mash of occult, Christian, polytheistic, Masonic, mumbo jumbo..........

God is not a God of confusion nor complexity when it comes to communicating His will for His followers or those in whom He desires in His fold. Mormonism has made a mess of the Christian message, polluting it with works-based salvation, denial of a hell for unbelievers that is biblical, teaching that marriage is perpetuated in heaven when Jesus flatly said there isn't, promoted the fleshly human pursuits to achieve godhood, when true Godhood is not achievable accept by God Himself.

Smith's teachings fed into the worldly, lost, fallen Adamic nature of man, to ascend to godhood. It has worked quite well indeed. Satan is happy, God is grieved.

Mormonism is an anathema to God, and every true Christian.

 

[Avatar4321]

You are so sadly brainwashed..........Judas was a false Apostle.......That's why Paul was the 12th in his place..

Are you somehow suggesting tha Judas wasnt an Apostle? He was ordained by Christ Himself. Was any of the preaching or baptisms he preformed invalid because at the final hour he betrayed the Lord? Was Peter less of an Apostle for his weakness?

Paul didnt replace Judas as an Apostle. Read the first chapter of Acts sometime.

You and tag-team Mormon Truthspeaker deflect, or just plain have a total non-spiritual understanding of the bible.

Im not tag teaming with anyone. I am my own person. And Im not deflecting anything, quite the opposite im directly quoting the scriptures as I always do and you are pretending that despite my direct quotes supporting my positiont hat im evil.

You both need true biblical salvation. Even Nicodemus was a literalist like you.............He had the knowledge but lacked the spiritual understanding of scripture...........When one is not sanctified by God in true salvation, you will end up believing all kinds of crazy heretical teachings...........Satan has you and your buddy, locked tight in a blasphemous zip lok bag of puffy, prideful, deceit, and lies which you both propagate on this forum. You know deep down that your grasping for lame straws in an endless haystack of hopelessness.

So you are the only one who knows what the scriptures say because you say so and anyone who disagrees with you is friends with satan.

I havent lied once here. Ive simply spoken out in favor of Christ and you are upset with me over it. grasping for lame straws? You can claim that all you want. But you still arent actually discussing anything with me. You pretend i havent said anything and rant and rave and then go back to what you are originally say.

Feeling good, doctrine only goes as far as your emotions can carry you, then you have "What?" to carry you through?

What the heck are you talking about?

Does your founding prophet turn the other cheek? By no means. He shoots dead his enemy with a single action revolver. All of Jesus' disciples went to their deaths as lambs to the slaughter knowing that a better life awaited them. Smith fought for his worldly life as though it was the only one he had.............And in truth it was.

He now is gnashing his teeth with regret in hell, along with Young and many other of your false leaders.

He voluntarily went to his death knowing he would be killed. He jumped out a window into a mob to save his friends. Try as you may, you cannot change that. His testimony is sealed in blood. And it's in full force.

You folks have to spend so much extra time patching holes in the Mormon dike to hold back the weight of documented truth that indicts your founders of fraud, criminal activities ranging all the way up to cold blooded murder.

We are holding nothing back. We are telling people to investigate. And Joseph never killed a single man and you know it. If you could prove otherwise you could tell me the man's name.

Just because you present the old family image, with the American flag, and apple pie nowadays to the unsuspecting public doesn't change where your foundational doctrine lies.............And Lies it does.

Im sure the American flag is what coverts people in Korea, Hong Kong, Africa, Peru, Argentina, Chile, Mexico, Canada.

And our foundational doctrine lies in the Testimony of the Apostles and Prophets that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was born of Mary in Bethlehem, preached in palestined for three years, called Apostles to teach the people organized a Church, and the was crucified for the sins of the world and rose on thie third day. Everything else is an appendage to that.

You teach your members to take any and all anti-Mormonism as a sign of being in the truth, and don't bother to even check out the substance of the critiques.

Which, of course, is why you get floored every time you recite the same nonsense that has been refuted for decades. Because we dont even bother to check out the substance of the critiques. Do you know how I learned that the Gospel was true? It was because anti mormon arguments were so pathetic and wrong that I had to ask myself one question: "If they are correct, why do they have to lie to prove their points?" Needless to say that lead to more questions and those questions brought me before the Lord to learn from Him. Im grateful I did.

Your a classic example of a cultist. Cultists walk in lock step with their elders. They fear castigation if they leave the fold, and in the case of Mormons, boy oh boy do they get castigated in communities where the majority populous is Mormon.

Yeah, that castigation is just so darn horrible. Im sure that's why starbucks does well in utah. Because those damn mormons just treat anyone who isnt lock step so badly.

Your religion is a mish mash of occult, Christian, polytheistic, Masonic, mumbo jumbo..........

Accusastions are useless without substantiation. I dont know why this is so difficult.

God is not a God of confusion nor complexity when it comes to communicating His will for His followers or those in whom He desires in His fold. Mormonism has made a mess of the Christian message, polluting it with works-based salvation, denial of a hell for unbelievers that is biblical, teaching that marriage is perpetuated in heaven when Jesus flatly said there isn't, promoted the fleshly human pursuits to achieve godhood, when true Godhood is not achievable accept by God Himself.

No, you're right about one thing here. God is not a God of confusion. He didnt create 10000 different denominations all proclaiming Christ while disagreeing with doctrine and practice. As Paul stated:

2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: (Eph 4:2-15)

The Lord has given us Apostles and Prophets to unify the Saints. To keep them from being decieved. Where are your Apostles? Why do you reject the Apostles who the Lord sends?

As for the rest of your paragraph, youve been repeatedly corrected on the subject. It would be nice if you stop pretending that I am not saying anything.

Smith's teachings fed into the worldly, lost, fallen Adamic nature of man, to ascend to godhood. It has worked quite well indeed. Satan is happy, God is grieved.

Mormonism is an anathema to God, and every true Christian.

Ive just demonstrated one post ago throughtou the scriptures that you claim to believe the clear teaching that we to become partakers of the Divine nature, we are to be joint heirs with Christ. We who recieve the word are gods and the scriptures cannot be broken.

If it's anathema to God to believe God and His Son whom He sent, then I dont think I want to be anything else.

 

[Liability]

BUMPING this thread because this thread just needs to be bumped every once in a while.

 

[froggy]

BUMPING this thread because this thread just needs to be bumped every once in a while.

Just like me telling you the truth, cause you need to hear it every once in a while.