The sun is constant yet ocean temperatures increase and decrease. Why?

[Slade3200]

The land configuration hasn't changed materially in the last 50 million years. Eruptions didn't play a part. Yes, the planet became bipolar glaciated but of course it was cooling for millions of years with elevated levels of CO2. Whatever conditions existed then exist today. The planet is in an interglacial period but the overall trend is for a cooling planet. Look at the oxygen isotope curve and tell me that isn't the trend.

I agree with you regarding the trends and conditions around our planets climate. I’m not saying it is all be ing driven by CO2. I do think CO2 plays a roll as a feedback/greenhouse gas which regulates the earths temperature.

It’s sounds like you understand the science and would agree with that as well. It’s just a matter of whether the human industrial effects that produce higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere make a significant effect or not

 

[Slade3200]

If you are arguing that the reason it is cooler today than it was in the last interglacial period is because the northern hemisphere isn't as deglaciated today as it was then then yes, 100% that is the reason it is cooler today. That proves my point. The planet is warming because the northern hemisphere is still deglaciating. That will end as soon as the AMOC switches off and the Arctic begins to rapidly glaciate like it has over 30 times in the last 3 million years.

Agreed.

 

[ding]

I agree with you regarding the trends and conditions around our planets climate. I’m not saying it is all be ing driven by CO2. I do think CO2 plays a roll as a feedback/greenhouse gas which regulates the earths temperature.

It’s sounds like you understand the science and would agree with that as well. It’s just a matter of whether the human industrial effects that produce higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere make a significant effect or not

Yes, I have never disputed that CO2 is a GHG and has a GHG effect. I only dispute climate sensitivity and the ridiculous feedbacks they attribute to it. I'm not EMH. But I do not believe the atmosphere controls the climate of the planet. I believe the ocean does. It contains 1000 times the heat that the atmosphere does and has 300 times the mass of the atmosphere.

 

[abu afak]

Not necessarily. The conditions of the planet that affected weather patterns matters. Volcanic eruptions, plate tectonics, mountain formation, oceans, polar ice caps, etc. those all drive warming and cooling periods. They affect the amount of co2 in the atmosphere as well.

You are right but miss the main reason. It's still the Sun/earth orbital tilt (Milankovitch cycles) tho other shorter (sun activity) cycles are possible as well as yours.

We probably WERE cooling (From an interglacial high/intermittent high) as one can see from the only relevant graph (not millions of years) posted here, My Marcott. (below)

but we spiked in Sync and Because of Man's rapid increase in CO2/GHGs. Slow at first just cutting down forests (CO2) and increasing livestock (Methane/CH4).
Then much more rapidly with the Ind-Rev Spike.

Again:

Indeed/In fact, saying/acknowledging man is responsible for 'some' or even 'most' warming may be (IMO) IS an underestimation. We may very well responsible for 120% of it in an otherwise cooling planet. And there are scientists in this camp.
MANY are restrained by conservatism and the simple '100%' barrier and lack of imagination.
`

Unfortunately Ding could convince you the moon IS at least 'part cream cheese' and you would go along just to be agreeable, lacking the knowledge to debate the topic.
`

 

[abu afak]

If you are arguing that the reason it is cooler today than it was in the last interglacial period is because the northern hemisphere isn't as deglaciated today as it was then then yes, 100% that is the reason it is cooler today. That proves my point. The planet is warming because the northern hemisphere is still deglaciating. That will end as soon as the AMOC switches off and the Arctic begins to rapidly glaciate like it has over 30 times in the last 3 million years.

Baseless/meaningless. At what Point in the interglacial? CO2 has accelerated so rapidly (100-200x natural) in This interglacial that Temp is lagging in the Ocean, land, air. But we are in the Oven set to a much higher Temp by CO2. We are just waiting to catch up/'cook through.'

Royal Meteorological Society:

The Pliocene: The Last Time Earth had >400 ppm of Atmospheric CO2​

The last time carbon dioxide was so plentiful in our planet's atmosphere was in the Pliocene era, around 3 million years ago. Life on Earth was dominated by giant mammals; humans and chimps had shared their last common ancestor. Although the Sun's force was about the Same, the Sea Levels were 15 Metres Higher and Arctic summer temperatures were 14 degrees Higher than the present day.

The Pliocene: The Last Time Earth had >400 ppm of Atmospheric CO2

The Pliocene: >400 ppm of Atmospheric CO2

www.rmets.org

`

 

[ding]

Baseless. At what point in the interglacial? CO2 has accelerated so rapidly (100-200x) in This interglacial that Temp is lagging in he Ocean, land, air. But we are in the Oven set at a much higher Temp set by CO2. We are just waiting to 'cook through.'

Royal Meteoological Sociey:

The Pliocene: The Last Time Earth had >400 ppm of Atmospheric CO2​

The last time carbon dioxide was so plentiful in our planet's atmosphere was in the Pliocene era, around 3 million years ago. Life on Earth was dominated by giant mammals; humans and chimps had shared their last common ancestor. Although the sun's force was about the same, the sea levels were 15 metres higher and Arctic summer temperatures were 14 degrees higher than the present day.

The Pliocene: The Last Time Earth had >400 ppm of Atmospheric CO2

The Pliocene: >400 ppm of Atmospheric CO2

www.rmets.org

`

Incorrect. The oceans and atmosphere are warming just like they do in every interglacial period.

 

[ding]

You are right but miss the main reason. It's still the Sun/earth orbital tilt (Milankovitch cycles) tho other shorter (sun activity) cycles are possible as well as yours.

We probably WERE cooling (From an interglacial high/intermittent high) as one can see from the only relevant graph (not millions of years) posted here, My Marcott. (below)

but we spiked in Sync and Because of Man's rapid increase in CO2/GHGs. Slow at first just cutting down forests (CO2) and increasing livestock (Methane/CH4).
Then much more rapidly with the Ind-Rev Spike.

Again:

Indeed/In fact, saying/acknowledging man is responsible for 'some' or even 'most' warming may be (IMO IS) an underestimation. We may very well responsible for 120% of it in an otherwise cooling planet. And there are scientists in this camp.
MANY are restrained by conservatism and the simple '100%' barrier and lack of imagination.
`

`

If you want to know what is happening you have to look at the Arctic because that is where climate change is occurring. Global temperature reconstructions smooth out the fluctuations and do not show the true picture.

I will see your graph and raise you with this one. Much of the last 10,000 years were warmer than today.

 

[abu afak]

Ding Loves one-location lagging Ice Cores, NOT Air Temps!

FACTCHECKS
5 March 2019 (abu: and probably warmed measurably in just the last 5 years since)

Factcheck: What Greenland ice cores say about past and present climate change​

Factchecks Factcheck: What Greenland ice cores say about past and present climate change

A misleading graph purporting to show that past changes in Greenland’s temperatures dwarf modern climate change has been circling the internet since at least 2010.

Based on an early Greenland ice core record produced back in 1997, versions of the graph have, variously, mislabeled the x-axis, excluded the modern observational temperature record and conflated a single location in Greenland with the whole world.

More recently, researchers have drilled numerous additional ice cores throughout Greenland and produced an updated estimate past Greenland temperatures.

This modern temperature reconstruction, combined with observational records over the past century, shows that current temperatures in Greenland are warmer than any period in the past 2,000 years. That said, they are likely still cooler than during the early part of the current geological epoch – the Holocene – which started around 11,000 years ago.

However, warming is expected to continue in the future as human actions continue to emit greenhouse gases, primarily from the combustion of fossil fuels.

Factcheck: What Greenland ice cores say about past and present climate change

A misleading graph purporting to show that past changes in Greenland’s temperatures dwarf modern climate change has been circling the internet since at least 2010.

www.carbonbrief.org

`

 

[ding]

Ding Loves one-location lagging Ice Cores, NOT Air Temps!

FACTCHECKS
5 March 2019 (abu: and probably warmed measurably in just the last 5 years since)

Factcheck: What Greenland ice cores say about past and present climate change​

Factchecks Factcheck: What Greenland ice cores say about past and present climate change

A misleading graph purporting to show that past changes in Greenland’s temperatures dwarf modern climate change has been circling the internet since at least 2010.

Based on an early Greenland ice core record produced back in 1997, versions of the graph have, variously, mislabeled the x-axis, excluded the modern observational temperature record and conflated a single location in Greenland with the whole world.

More recently, researchers have drilled numerous additional ice cores throughout Greenland and produced an updated estimate past Greenland temperatures.

This modern temperature reconstruction, combined with observational records over the past century, shows that current temperatures in Greenland are warmer than any period in the past 2,000 years. That said, they are likely still cooler than during the early part of the current geological epoch – the Holocene – which started around 11,000 years ago.

However, warming is expected to continue in the future as human actions continue to emit greenhouse gases, primarily from the combustion of fossil fuels.

Factcheck: What Greenland ice cores say about past and present climate change

A misleading graph purporting to show that past changes in Greenland’s temperatures dwarf modern climate change has been circling the internet since at least 2010.

www.carbonbrief.org

`

I love empirical climate data from the most climate sensitive part of the planet; the northern polar region.

 

[EMH]

I love empirical climate data from the most climate sensitive part of the planet; the northern polar region.

laughable, since the Greenland ice cores completely refute Milankovich and interglacials....

 

[ding]

laughable, since the Greenland ice cores completely refute Milankovich and interglacials....

Good thing I don't believe orbital cycles trigger glacial and interglacial periods, dummy. But way to defend Apu.

 

[EMH]

Good thing I don't believe orbital cycles trigger glacial and interglacial periods, dummy. But way to defend Apu.

So you admit interglacials are Co2 FRAUd bullshit...

THANKS...

 

[ding]

So you admit interglacials are Co2 FRAUd bullshit...

THANKS...

Nope. The glacial cycle is quite real. There have been over 30 of them in the last 3 million years. Not sure how you missed it.

 

[EMH]

Nope. The glacial cycle is quite real. There have been over 30 of them in the last 3 million years. Not sure how you missed it.

Complete bullshit refuted on both poles already.

You are arguing 2.5 mile thick glacier near Chicago was only 75k years old. AA has 800k years of ice core data and that's not even halfway down...

 

[ding]

Complete bullshit refuted on both poles already.

You are arguing 2.5 mile thick glacier near Chicago was only 75k years old. AA has 800k years of ice core data and that's not even halfway down...

The Arctic is 5 degrees warmer because of the THERMOhaline circulation.

 

[ding]

Complete bullshit refuted on both poles already.

You are arguing 2.5 mile thick glacier near Chicago was only 75k years old. AA has 800k years of ice core data and that's not even halfway down...

With the planet's current landmass configuration, how heat is distributed to the Arctic determines if the plant is warming or cooling.

 

[EMH]

With the planet's current landmass configuration, how heat is distributed to the Arctic determines if the plant is warming or cooling.

altering the distribution of existing heat does not change Earth's total heat content, and hence does not cause climate CHANGE.

 

[ding]

altering the distribution of existing heat does not change Earth's total heat content, and hence does not cause climate CHANGE.

You yourself have said the land around the poles makes it so, dummy. When the temperature threshold is reached for glaciation the lands around the Arctic glaciate. Changing heat distribution by the ocean is what lowers the temperature enough for the surrounding lands to glaciate.

 

[EMH]

said the land around the poles

That's a pretty lame spin. The official line is that when land moves to within 600 miles of an Earth pole, it enters an ICE AGE, which, while very slow, begin to change the climate by accumulating ice and trapping gas in the process. As more ice is accumulated, that cools Earth both air and water. When land in ice age leaves the 600 miles to the pole, as NA recently did, the ice melts, gas is released, oceans rise, and Earth warms.


And you and the Co2 FRAUD cannot refute one word of that...

Apparently we really need a "debate" over the term ICE AGE because y'all are all wrong...

What is an ICE AGE? Most apparently still believe it is a terrifying horror movie event where Earth all at once freezes up. The data has never supported such a scenario. Since 2010, there has been a massive effort to re-write Earth climate history into a series of rapid "glaciations" and ice...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[ding]

That's a pretty lame spin. The official line is that when land moves to within 600 miles of an Earth pole, it enters an ICE AGE, which, while very slow, begin to change the climate by accumulating ice and trapping gas in the process. As more ice is accumulated, that cools Earth both air and water. When land in ice age leaves the 600 miles to the pole, as NA recently did, the ice melts, gas is released, oceans rise, and Earth warms.


And you and the Co2 FRAUD cannot refute one word of that...

Apparently we really need a "debate" over the term ICE AGE because y'all are all wrong...

What is an ICE AGE? Most apparently still believe it is a terrifying horror movie event where Earth all at once freezes up. The data has never supported such a scenario. Since 2010, there has been a massive effort to re-write Earth climate history into a series of rapid "glaciations" and ice...

www.usmessageboard.com

So now you are arguing that ice doesn't grow on land near the pole? Because that's been your entire argument.

When the AMOC switches off the heat that was being circulated from the Atlantic to the lands surrounding the north pole will start to glaciate because the decreased heat drops the temperature enough to reach the threshold of glaciation of the surrounding lands. As these glaciers spread the temperature of the atmosphere and the oceans cools because of all that ice in the Arctic.